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Flamespar
Woof Club
43
   |
Posted - 2011.10.06 03:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
There have been numerous requests for some sort of indication on the what and when for the multiplayer establishments of Incarna..
Recently we were told that multiplayer establishments were almost ready to go onto singularity.
Now they seem to have vanished from the winter expansion feature list completely.
Whilst I recognise some players don't want Incarna, much in the same way I don't want to do PI, or slam my ********* in a door. At the very least CCP could say whether they actualy intend to finish the current expansion, or whether Incarna is on hold once the rest of the CQs come out and they work on FiS stuff.
I returned to EVE for Incarna and all of it's promises (big mistake, I know). Can you at least give a straight answer on when you will deliver the multiplayer establishments?
This year? Great. In two years time? Great, at least then I'd I f**king know. I could stop playing this endless game of wait and see.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Astrid Stjerna
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2011.10.06 03:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There have been numerous requests for some sort of indication on the what and when for the multiplayer establishments of Incarna..
Recently we were told that multiplayer establishments were almost ready to go onto singularity.
Now they seem to have vanished from the winter expansion feature list completely.
Whilst I recognise some players don't want Incarna, much in the same way I don't want to do PI, or slam my ********* in a door. At the very least CCP could say whether they actualy intend to finish the current expansion, or whether Incarna is on hold once the rest of the CQs come out and they work on FiS stuff.
I returned to EVE for Incarna and all of it's promises (big mistake, I know). Can you at least give a straight answer on when you will deliver the multiplayer establishments?
This year? Great. In two years time? Great, at least then I'd I f**king know. I could stop playing this endless game of wait and see.
*Sigh*
Why, oh why, don't people ever read all of the available information?
It was clearly stated that the list that was posted is not a finalized list. They may add more, or take something off -- but it's subject to change. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
210
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 03:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
After reading between the lines I let myself believe, that CCP is unable to provide you solid answer for that question. Remaining quarters are late (but coming very soon as were in singularity already). Many modules which will be used in establishments are ready, but the thing is... CQ stage was supposed to take much less time. By giving you a solid answer they would most likely fail to deliver or deliver half finished product. It is better that they work with it in peace and finish what they are doing.
I also let myself believe that Hilmar said _indirectly_ in his post that Incarna development will continue until it is finished, but main focus will be the content described in the other blog.
You probably get some official answer later. These are only my opinions and are not worth much.
Xmas? Most likely wouldn't happen even they steam rolled towards that with full crew :)
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Flamespar
Woof Club
43
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Posted - 2011.10.06 03:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
*Sigh*
Why, oh why, don't people ever read all of the available information?
It was clearly stated that the list that was posted is not a finalized list. They may add more, or take something off -- but it's subject to change.
Why, oh why, can't you see the obvious absence of a feature that they have already promised to deliver?
Why, oh why, can't you read the title of this thread, which was about getting concrete information?
And finally I don't give a damn if it makes it in, or if it doesn't, I just want some closure, which a date would provide.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 03:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Astrid Stjerna wrote:
*Sigh*
Why, oh why, don't people ever read all of the available information?
It was clearly stated that the list that was posted is not a finalized list. They may add more, or take something off -- but it's subject to change.
Why, oh why, can't you see the obvious absence of a feature that they have already promised to deliver? Why, oh why, can't you read the title of this thread, which was about getting concrete information? And finally I don't give a damn if it makes it in, or if it doesn't, I just want some closure, which a date would provide.
CCP doesn't have concrete date. That's the entire point of the CEO letter, that pushing out unfinished features is a bad thing to do. They have to keep iterating on it until it's ready, and that's just not something you can predict.
It's done when it's done is the best policy to have, as much as you may not like to hear it. AAA game developers don't give hard dates for this very reason (ID and Valve both come to mind). |
Flamespar
Woof Club
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 03:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
mechtech wrote:
It's done when it's done is the best policy to have, as much as you may not like to hear it. AAA game developers don't give hard dates for this very reason (ID and Valve both come to mind).
Firstly Valve and ID don't give out any dates, hard or otherwise. That's why we love them.
But at least in their case we don't pay for the product and then get told "ok now that you've paid, you'll get it eventually, but we want to iterate on it for a while, and we're not prepared to give you a date, cause we are a AAA game developer and for some reason that means we don't have to make do anything silly, like actually commit to a date.'
Kidding aside. I think Grey Stormshadow is on the right track. I think CCP is commited to Incarna being a seamless part of EVE, but has put it on hold pending the FiS improvements. Multiplayer establishments will arrive at some point next year (maybe).
At the very least, they could say it though.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Gwenywell Shumuku
22
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Posted - 2011.10.06 04:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lets face it, AT THIS STAGE they can't deliver Incarna's establishments AND focus on FIS.
Establishments + gameplay is something that is not even designed yet (there is 0 information what gameplay we are even talking about besides bars+minigames).
Lets not talk about running Incarna + 64 players in 1 room from a technical standpoint. Good luck with that. If they are SMART, they let us invite 2-5 ppl into our CQs. So at least some can show there NEX stuff to others (omg lol, but hey, some want to do that).
And, if they want to release DUST next year, it's a good marketing move to release Incarna 2.0 the same time for PC users as they don't get anything worthwhile from just DUST.
So, FIS focus this winter, Incarna 2.0 + DUST next summer (tied to big fanfest annoucement bla bla).
Thats how i would do it. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
77
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Astrid Stjerna wrote:
*Sigh*
Why, oh why, don't people ever read all of the available information?
It was clearly stated that the list that was posted is not a finalized list. They may add more, or take something off -- but it's subject to change.
Why, oh why, can't you see the obvious absence of a feature that they have already promised to deliver? Why, oh why, can't you read the title of this thread, which was about getting concrete information? And finally I don't give a damn if it makes it in, or if it doesn't, I just want some closure, which a date would provide.
The absence of the feature on the list is because they don't have concrete information on it. Why don't they have any? Cause it is still in an unpredictable stage of development where things can change the date drastically. Just cause it's not on the list doesn't mean they have broken the promise cause they never promised by when they would do it.
They never said that establishments were ready for SiSi....that was the other 3 CQs
I would like a link of them saying otherwise.
See the problem with not being able to give set in stone dates about things is cause CCP does simultaneous development and research (and some times "research" just means trial and error in house testing). If it was PURELY just development then projects would be much easier to predict. But a lot of stuff they do is either new stuff or has lots of little unexpected twists...usually from old shoddy code that probably wasn't built to do the thing they are trying to do with it. This results in trying to jury rig existing code to make it work, which usually creates a lot of time consuming bugs to track down that all can take variable amounts of time to solve, OOOOR total rewrites of the section which are also time consuming themselves as well as the bug hunting after new system is in place. The good news though is that CCP is working on replacing the old code bit by bit so that they only have to use the later option once and then from then on the code is familiar and easily extendable. An example of this would be the Carbon UI.
The Drake is a Lie |
Flamespar
Woof Club
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:
They never said that establishments were ready for SiSi....that was the other 3 CQs
I.
I had a quick look and found this. Not the item I was thinking of, but close enough.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2355
Quote:
Incarna 1.1 will see the results of our progress on improving the existing CQ, and later this year we plan on deploying the remaining racial quarters to Tranquility as well as the next Incarna feature, establishments
Later this year we plan on deploying the next Incarna feature, establishments.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 05:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well that didn't say they were so close to ready that they were going to go on Sisi did it?
Nitpicking aside I think that it would be reasonably realistic considering all of the new player interaction and art that will need to go into something like establishments for it to not make their "this year" mark.
Plans can change you know...
The Drake is a Lie |
Flamespar
Woof Club
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 05:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Well that didn't say they were so close to ready that they were going to go on Sisi did it?
Nitpicking aside I think that it would be reasonably realistic considering all of the new player interaction and art that will need to go into something like establishments for it to not make their "this year" mark.
Plans can change you know...
Er. You do realise that if they are saying that they will have it on tranquility by the end of the year, then it is reasonable to assume it would be on singularity prior to that happening, ie sooner.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
210
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 05:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well all CQ's were supposed to be out before end of august. They were running months behind even before today's announcement.
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Flamespar
Woof Club
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 05:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Well all CQ's were supposed to be out before end of august. They were running months behind even before today's announcement.
Hence the original request for some sort of statement as to whether multiplayer establishments are on ice, or coming as part of the winter expansion.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
210
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 05:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yep... I agree they could throw us some rough bone like "during next year" to play with.
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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange
Fatal Ascension
74
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Posted - 2011.10.06 06:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, no they are not coming at a rate that will allow them to give a time frame. Everything about this change in direction announced indicates that while Incarna will be finished, it has gone from being the end all be all(which they weren't able to make their deadlines while doing anyway) to just an additional feature, like FW.
Additionally, by giving time frames, they tie their hands. They would be better of doing the normal dev thing and tell you it will be available when it good and ready, and not a minute before.
As far as already having paid for it... You started playing just for Incarna? Because thats sure not the game most of us paid for, even if some of us do think it will make the game better. Its just a matter of priorities, and I, like most players who seem to speak up, want the game I *DID* pay for to take priority over a vanity expansion, even if that vanity expansion is a worthwhile one like Incarna.
Now stop trolling 
o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist..
KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
327
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 06:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There have been numerous requests for some sort of indication on the what and when for the multiplayer establishments of Incarna..
Get out.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1042
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 06:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There have been numerous requests for some sort of indication on the what and when for the multiplayer establishments of Incarna..
Get out.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
47
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 06:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Finishing Establishments by Winter was very unlikely, and everyone should have known better by the time the CQ launch was pushed so far back to be a WINTER expansion when it was tried to be justified as a late Incarna expansion addition.
Establishments are more than just the structures.
Establishments for EVE represents the following :
Player owned station rooms, 100% customizable establishments, UI to manage customized establishments (including scripting NPCs), mutliple establishments per station, multi-player environment supporting undefined number of players, mini-games (poker, etc), Scripted NPC's, social "drinking", functional environments, emotional animations (smile, sad, angry, wave), interactive environments, a concourse(??) to move between establishments, new boosters, booster trading mechanics in establishments only, player policed booster smuggling, new "local" channel, and the list goes on and on and on for establishments.
All of that is NOT getting done by winter. It's a fact, it's way too much and rushing it is just going to make it crapola.
I wish it were coming, but the fact is it just isn't.
NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
mkint
119
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 06:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
To me, the date is less important... I'm more interested in the design goals. However, they probably don't want to publish design goals because of how bad PI is compared to what was advertised. There are a few differences though: 1)we knew from pretty early on what PI would do... that it's minimum requirements were "to make the NPC stuff." There still is no reason for Incarna to even exist except for the shinies (not a good enough reason.) 2)that PI was going to be abandoned immediately after launch, but at least it would still accomplish goal number 1. I guess that could be the case for Incarna, since once this WoD alpha test is done there is no reason for CCP to ever even think about it again, but for some reason I had it in my mind that CCP was gonna keep working on it for a couple more years before abandoning it. 3)Incarna is a front and center feature that is supposed to be "an integral part into the blah blah blah" where PI is "an easter egg flash game worthy of any highschool multimedia class." If it's supposed to be an integral part of the blah blah blah, you'd think CCP would want the players to support it rather than completely reject it as a game mechanic, which means it should be more than a big fap fest.
So, CCP, keep your timetables to yourselves... that's fine and perfectly understandable. But over the next 5 years, what is the BASIC functionality you want to see with Incarna... why should we care? |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
82
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 06:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
PR dude.
That list was carefully crafted to appeal to a portion of the EVE player-base (read, 90% of the player-base) that couldn't care less about estabilishments.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 07:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
i too am waiting for concrete info on incarna
the time of death and the autopsy report
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
get out you incarna lovin pedestrians |
Nel Gardier
Time Sync
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 07:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
@OP - Because I don't think CCP can crack two avatars in the same room let alone an establishments worth.
There's probably more than just EVE players breathing a sigh of relief over :words: - probably many devs being whipped to get the next round of code ready for forced public beta testing.
I suspect many opt in betas over the next year. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
135
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 07:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
mechtech wrote:
CCP doesn't have concrete date. That's the entire point of the CEO letter, that pushing out unfinished features is a bad thing to do. They have to keep iterating on it until it's ready, and that's just not something you can predict.
It's done when it's done is the best policy to have, as much as you may not like to hear it. AAA game developers don't give hard dates for this very reason (ID and Valve both come to mind).
Aye this! CCP has been pushing hard the last year but pushing against the wrong set of stones, they needed (and have appeared to have done so) to reassess the way they have been developing the EVE universe and EVE online. Pushing out stuff to soon just to get it out there is something they have learned (the hard way) to be a bad idea.
To quote a great writer: It will be finished when it is finished!
To quote this man again: Winter is coming.
-
[img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img]
[yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx
Rookie Empire
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 10:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There have been numerous requests for some sort of indication on the what and when for the multiplayer establishments of Incarna..
Recently we were told that multiplayer establishments were almost ready to go onto singularity.
Now they seem to have vanished from the winter expansion feature list completely.
Whilst I recognise some players don't want Incarna, much in the same way I don't want to do PI, or slam my ********* in a door. At the very least CCP could say whether they actualy intend to finish the current expansion, or whether Incarna is on hold once the rest of the CQs come out and they work on FiS stuff.
I returned to EVE for Incarna and all of it's promises (big mistake, I know). Can you at least give a straight answer on when you will deliver the multiplayer establishments?
This year? Great. In two years time? Great, at least then I'd I f**king know. I could stop playing this endless game of wait and see.
I understand where you are coming from. I'm a newer player and only know what I have taken the time to learn. From my POV CCP HELLMARs dev blog basically said..
"Ok Ok ya got us! We've been bullshitting you guys on a lot of the stuff we've been telling you. In truth much of it was a straight lie and you caught us. We thought we would be able to cover our over-the-top promises with actual results, none-the-less you guys are just way too smart and caught us in our boldfaced deception. Even after our constantly failing denials; we continued to **** on you guys. We apologize and will try to refrain from lieing to you any longer."
Pretty much what I got.. |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 11:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:After reading between the lines
This is your first mistake, sometimes believe it or not what's between the lines is just white space and not some secret agenda. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
216
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 11:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Naran Eto wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:After reading between the lines This is your first mistake, sometimes believe it or not what's between the lines is just white space and not some secret agenda.
You have been spending too much time with legal documents :)
|
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 12:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
For those of you wanting establishments:
I have serious reservations about the sincerity of Hilmar's blog. The speed at which CCP has changed directions from Incarna is indicative of hitting a wall and bouncing off in the opposite direction. I doubt it has anything to do with player desire and more to do with technical challenges. So, don't hold your breath for establishments. See how hard your hardware is working to produce one small room with one character? Imagine how hard it's going to work (or not work) with 100 avatars roaming around in an expansive environment. I think, technically, it is possible for CCP to provide establishments but, not without killing their playerbase to do it for the few with bleeding edge rigs. So, don't expect establishments any time soon.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 12:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:For those of you wanting establishments:
I have serious reservations about the sincerity of Hilmar's blog. The speed at which CCP has changed directions from Incarna is indicative of hitting a wall and bouncing off in the opposite direction. I doubt it has anything to do with player desire and more to do with technical challenges. So, don't hold your breath for establishments. See how hard your hardware is working to produce one small room with one character? Imagine how hard it's going to work (or not work) with 100 avatars roaming around in an expansive environment. I think, technically, it is possible for CCP to provide establishments but, not without killing their playerbase to do it for the few with bleeding edge rigs. So, don't expect establishments any time soon.
Yeah I think we will get establishments, but certainly not in this upcoming expansion, and maybe not even in the Summer one. I think it will take 2 big upgrades to get FiS up to scratch, only after that will they be able to re-concentrate on the WiS part.
As indeed I hope they do. I love the "full vision" for EVE, and I think those who whine about "just FiS" are ******* Luddites.
But FiS has to be the priority. |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 12:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Naran Eto wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:After reading between the lines This is your first mistake, sometimes believe it or not what's between the lines is just white space and not some secret agenda. You have been spending too much time with legal documents :)
Eek i just noticed i've quoted multiple posts from you recently, belive me it's just coincidence, i'm not stalking you ..... unless you want me to that is ...  |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 13:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Well all CQ's were supposed to be out before end of august. They were running months behind even before today's announcement.
Don-¦t forget the performance problems with CQ. Since i doubt that ccp conspired with nvidia to melt our graphic cards to make us buy more, they had suddenly an unexpected problem to deal with. Any further implementation of WiS is nonsense before solving the performance problems, because if CQ has already such big issues, a full station environment will freeze up about every computer out there. And i guess ccp has the suspicion we would not appreciate that.
Any schedule planned before the performance problem came up is therefore crapped.
And noone can know how long performance optimization will take, so there is no way to tell when more WiS-content will show up other than "as soon as you will be able to run several clients at once without killing you, your family, your friends, your neighbours and everyone and everything you hold dear to you because your town disappeared in a nuclear detonation caused by your computer trying to run eve online."
"You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
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