Apparantly one of the devs at the Vegas meeting made a remark that he'd favor the complete removal of concord.
In other news we just had an expansion which gives players more room and incentives to take matters into their own hands.
It appears we are witnessing a shift from NPC law enforcement to players being given tools and incentives to do that. Not because Concord isn't doing a good job, but Concord is so effective that there is little room left for players to participate in the epic fight between good and bad.

It's not an epic fight between good and bad - it's a mediocre slaughter of sheep by wolves. And if CCP removes CONCORD completely, the sheep (i.e. those that refuse to change their play styles regardless of what happens in game) will simply quit to go play another game where they can be left alone.

These people do not WANT player interaction, and while you can force the interaction (for example, removing CONCORD to allow gankers their very own version of space whack-a-mole), you cannot force these people to continue playing (and paying for subs), so efforts in that direction are futile.

CCP isn't going to do anything that drastically impacts their bottom line in a negative manner, no matter what pipe dreams the devs spout off at conventions.

On the bright side, PLEX prices would crash over night

Until that time there should be tools in place to enable the white knights to disrupt criminal actions. Ideas for this has been suggestions like a concord titan where white knights wait till they can bridge to a crimescene or a crimescene beacon on overview that allows players to warp to the scene to have a look and possibly aid the victim.

On the matter of the 'white knights' I believe that such acctions should be properly rewarded. The new bounty system doesn't appear to be very effective for this. Concord should add additional rewards for law enforcemtent which can be in the form of isk, security status and/or loyalty points. Similarly to the current bounty system these rewards should be properly balanced out against the inflicted loss (to prevent abuse by people shooting their own alts).

I feel that given the current status, if indeed a change is wanted, they should either allow super caps in highsec, or dumb down concord to make them tankable for a little while. Not insta-pop or anything, but like... grinding down a pos effect.

That would make things interesting. Would be nice to see a blob come into high sec and encourage a huuuge fight with concord to create a pvpve environment.

This, pretty much.

I'm new here, but seems to me the linchpin of hi-sec boredom is the sheer omnipotence of Concord. If a first offense caused a Concord response that is merely force to be reckoned with, and it scaled up to omnipotence only if you resist them, that adds the potential for more interesting situations than getting vaporized if you step out of line.

My big ol' Gonzo idea would be to conduct criminal actions much like the Grand Theft Auto games do it (there, I said it). The more criminal actions you do, and the higher the security level of the solar system you're in, the more Concord throws at you. Or Concord's response pattern could be always the same, but the security level of the system would restrict how many offenders Concord could deal with at once. Or some combo. I'm not picky.

And it seems like ganking has been reduced considerably since Retribution.

I would be curious to know what makes you saying that. Ganking is now even more profitable if the target has a bounty.

Except for this point, I understand your opinion. However, there is also a lot of features only existing because it is harder to grief in high sec. The whole war system thing, the fact that begginers can learn and evolve at their rhythm before willingly drift to less secured space, the whole economical 'stability' of EvE (ok it's not really stable, but it would be worse if bringing goods to HUBs were impossible), political plotting in high-sec corporations...


The idea of a player-driven security, of good versus evil, is attractive, but a mercyless world like EVE needs a place were you can catch your breath. And of course, we all know that leaving parts of EVE gameplay to players without thinking of all the consequences, will result in more power for all our big 0.0 blocks. I bet that if 0.5 were half secured by concord, and theoretically half by players, you would see some huge alliance lockdowns of such systems, with enough opponents so that it is impossible to counter them.

Never happen. EVE would lose 2/3 of its subscribers overnight.

EVE would become a better game overnight.

EVE would become a better game overnight.

give the militia guys a button on their UI that will warp them to any aggression on their vicinity.

make different types of aggression allow calling militia guys from different distances, if a system is under a lot of ganking allow militia from all the region to rain down on the pirates.

make militia factions reward LP for police actions, make pirate factions reward LP for pirate actions on systems they randomly mark as targets.

oh, and remove CONCORD, or reduce them to be some kind of emergency response ships that spawn on aggression doing some light reps on the aggressed and on the militia guys.

and finally change militia, so instead of a permanent commitment its a weekly "tour" at the end of the week you can go for another week or drop and go back to where you were before. maybe trow in a weekly increase in LP gains, maybe +5% per week, staking.


anyway, removing concord from one day to the other would be a bad idea, it has to be a gradual change over a year or so.

I love the idea of Eve vigilante justice and lynch mobs

Players can't be trusted to police an MMO. Ever.

EVE would become a better game overnight.

players have shown that we can take utterly lawless space and make it avaliable and safe for our alliance members.

I think you sorta glossed over the important point there. Players are good at making space safe for their friends, not for everyone. Player police in high-sec would do the same thing: make space safe for their friends, not everyone.

I feel that given the current status, if indeed a change is wanted, they should either allow super caps in highsec, or dumb down concord to make them tankable for a little while. Not insta-pop or anything, but like... grinding down a pos effect.

That would make things interesting. Would be nice to see a blob come into high sec and encourage a huuuge fight with concord to create a pvpve environment.

Or wait, that would be silly wouldn't it? Why on earth would devs want concord removed from highsec anyways?

And when the player militia inevitably decides it likes ruling high-sec and turns to piracy, using its power to control everyone instead of just criminals?

One of the reasons why alliances prefer to make space safe for their friends only is that they lack incentives to share the space with neutrals. Hence I pointed out a need to provide proper rewards to the capsuleer police force.

Do you have any idea how awesome that sounds?

I can already picture the removal of CONCORD. The factions decide that they can no longer trust CONCORD to police their systems, and withdraw funding, causing them to become far less potent. Meanwhile, criminals are now hunted down by NPC and PC militia, actively in highsec, but also patrolling in lowsec, with rewards handed out to people who hunt down criminals. Faction warfare escalates to include the conquest of 0.7 and lower systems, with CONCORD as it is today only operating in 0.7 and above, and steadily being cut back further in future patches. Highsec is less safe, but the presence of - destructible - NPC police makes it at least much safer than lowsec.

What's their motivation for not abusing it and their power?

But now Concord is OP. There is no room for 'the good guys' to participate in the conflict between good and bad. They have no reason to organize themselves. That is why Concord should be gradually nerfed to make room for the capsuleers.

Make concord deploy a 'realistic' fleet composition to a crime depending on the number/ship types of the crimainal(s). The fleet comps can be based upon accepted practices etc to allow the criminal to 'fight back'. they should bring fast tackle, ewar, brawlers and support with DPS ships as well to cover all bases. After all they are here to ruin your day.

Lock the system down so the criminals cannot leave the system and have concord call in backup as time goes on. just like a real poilice force.

Concord shouldn't be 'all powerful' and strike you down from mount olympus with bolts of lightning but should deploy 'overwhelming force' when needed to bring a criminal to 'justice'

Concord shouldn't be 'all powerful' and strike you down from mount olympus with bolts of lightning

Yes it should. The fact that the offender knows he will 100% certainly lose his ship is the only thing keeping them in check and still some high sec ganks happen every day.
...

Oh yah, so awesome

I just can't wait to have "police" show up in my level 4 mission and start shooting me because I didn't pay them a "tax" to be able to mission in a 0.7 system.

It doesn't have to be immediate, nor by Concord. Give players a chance to pick a fight with the offender, at the risk of losing their ship, but also with a chance to score a kill and maybe some rewards.
High sec ganks happen, but are much rarer since Retribution. Many old gankers have found a new hobby in bumping miners.

The idea of player run police will only add to the already powerful appeal of Eve as a player-driven game.

This probably has a ton of flaws but:

My suggestion is to allow player characters to join the Concord NPC corporation. Concord corp members should automatically get a limited engagement flag with any high-sec criminal, and a instant corp bookmark to the location of the crime should be created by Concord dispatch. This will allow them to mass swarm to the location of the crime and do justice.

It shouldn't be much different for the criminal, but instead of CCP NPC bots, it would be players doing the shooting.

On second thought, it's a massive derivation from the games current corp mechanics, but Concord itself is an outlier in an otherwise player driven game.

EVE would become a better game overnight.

Which is when the NPC militia (which would of course be improved) rocks up to smack them (which it should be able to do unless they're pretty organized), they take serious faction standing hits, and get booted from the faction militia if they're in it and violating the law in their faction's space.

As stated, removing CONCORD from the game would cause carebear tears, and a massive drop in subs.

I do like the idea of players helping CONCORD deal with criminal offenders.

what about some form of timer on CONCORD dps/reinforcments?

for example, a ganker nukes a little Badger MKII that someone forgot to tank, a single CONCORD ship arrives, locks down (scram, web, and some ECM (but not the total permajam lockdown that occurs now)) the criminal and starts shooting, this starts a timer, where local players can come help out the lone CONCORD ship but after a period of time more CONCORD ships arrive if the target isn't dead yet, steadily ramping up the dps untill either players arrive and help kill the target (or get killed) or enough CONCORD ships arrive to finish off the offender.

CONCORDs own brand of justice will still be served, just slower than it happens now, giving players a chance to join in, maybe have some kind of 'Deputising' mechanic, where you can join CONCORD FW which makes Criminal Beacons show up in the overview allowing you to warp to them.

CONCORD could give out LP based on the ship loss, and the better your CONCORD standing, the further away you can find out about criminal acts (maybe even from 2 or 3 jumps away, if your standing is good enough)

Obviously needs fleshing out a little, but it keeps CONCORD in the game to appease the carebears, and allows the players who like hunting pirates more oppertunities to do so

Of course... but only if CCP will have the cold cash to keep the servers running and pay the developers with only 1/3 of their income.

The thing you guys fail to realise is that the moment concord is absent , th big 0.0 entities will just move in and run empire space like nullsec.

What purpose would this serve? Give highsec dwellers free kills as the offender will be killed eventually, anyway, and cannot escape?

If on the other hand they would have a chance to escape justice, I come back to my previous statement - highsec ganks would boom into unbelieveable amounts and the carebears would leave EVE in masses.

Again, the only thing that keeps the gankers (mostly) in check is the fact that they KNOW they will lose their ship. Change that knowledge into uncertainty and you will have chaos.

the purpose would be to add a new (interesting?) mechanic to CONCORD interactions, I don't think giving away free kills is the best way, so have some sort of CONCORD Deputy mechanic, (pay isk to be a deputy, get LP rewards for assisting CONCORD)

if the Criminals are allowed to shoot the deputy, this could create some interesting situations, The criminal will still, eventually, lose thier ship to CONCORD, but could have the chance to take a few more people down (shooting at non-deputy players would accelerate CONCORDS wrath)

Like I said, the idea needs fleshing out a little, but i'd be interested in seeing what more people thought of it.

the purpose would be to add a new (interesting?) mechanic to CONCORD interactions, I don't think giving away free kills is the best way, so have some sort of CONCORD Deputy mechanic, (pay isk to be a deputy, get LP rewards for assisting CONCORD)

if the Criminals are allowed to shoot the deputy, this could create some interesting situations, The criminal will still, eventually, lose thier ship to CONCORD, but could have the chance to take a few more people down (shooting at non-deputy players would accelerate CONCORDS wrath)

Like I said, the idea needs fleshing out a little, but i'd be interested in seeing what more people thought of it.

Why would we need Concord removed where that style of game play exist already.

Because we want it, right?

...if they don't then you'll never have to worry about carebears in EVE ever.

There are no white knights to be found anywhere. If there were such people, they'd already be policing low-sec. In reality, you just get gankers and other gankers.

Players can't be trusted to police an MMO. Ever.

EVE would become a better game overnight.

Because we want it, right?

Apparantly one of the devs at the Vegas meeting made a remark that he'd favor the complete removal of concord.

Apparantly one of the devs at the Vegas meeting made a remark that he'd favor the complete removal of concord.

I have several arguments for removing/nerfing concord in hisec:
1. Hisec has become too safe since Retribution

2. People want more small-scale PvP

3. More opportunities for player interaction rather than ganking being a one-sided action with a helpless victim and an overpowered npc police

Higher security systems scale concord's power faster. etc.

Situation:
0.7 system, Raven is running missions, Pirate gang drops in ontop of the raven and begins aggression. Same concord response time, only the pirates have a fighting chance. Concord is wailing away at the pirates while they try and kill the raven, more concord ships show up over a period of time, dictated by sec status of system. Hopefully this can make for some interesting engagements.

imho:

Concord is nice for new players, but for experienced players, you may have a beef with someone, they're in an NPC corp, and you cant do anything about it. Also the fact that concord is a be all end all to any aggression in high sec is a little much. Maybe give one a fighting chance, and concord becomes more powerful the longer the engagement goes on? That can be a solution, However CONCORD needs to scale to the point where they will eradicate what is engaged, to prevent 0.9 systems from turning into a battlefield.. Lol imagine the ibis fights.

Higher security systems scale concord's power faster. etc.

Situation:
0.7 system, Raven is running missions, Pirate gang drops in ontop of the raven and begins aggression. Same concord response time, only the pirates have a fighting chance. Concord is wailing away at the pirates while they try and kill the raven, more concord ships show up over a period of time, dictated by sec status of system. Hopefully this can make for some interesting engagements.


This is coming from a player that lives in high sec atm as well. Its pretty hard seeing a hulk just sitting by itself. and knowing that if you attack it, you just die.

inb4 HTFU move to low/null/WH: I prefer null honestly, but with the coalitions, its not fun. Besides, this isnt a NERF CONCORD post, its just a suggestion.

The first thing the gankers learn is to light a false flag at some distant corner of the system and then commit the real crime while the police players are busy warping to the false alarm site. By the time they arrive to the site of the real crime the gankers are already gone and left only a smoking wreck of their victims.

This could probably be somewhat helped by putting a "CALL THE POLICE" button in the UI, which anyone who have been illegally aggressed could push. Again it could be misused, but at least the player misusing it could be punished.

Again, it sounds cool in theory, but history has shown it just won't work, unless there is a huge payout for acting as a police. And if there was, someone would find a way to exploit it.

Surprise, surprise... The goons would like to see PVP everywhere. In other words, they want to be able to kill anyone, anywhere with impunity. You have low and null sec for that. Not everyone wants to engage in PVP. I certainly don't. Eve is big enough to allow the relative safety of high sec. Also the model CCP have now is a real winner resulting in a growing membership while other MMO's are steadinly losing memberships.

High sec is a good "nursery" for new players to learn the game and then decide what they want to do in the game, and yes, that means that they may wish to engage in PVP and head to null, but imagine if every time you undocked you got blown out of space... That doesn't sound like fun to me... I would quit imediately.

Goons need to realise there are actually others in the game that enjoy different playstyles without being annoyed by them.

I think you miss the point of high sec... If you want to go see a hulk sitting by itself and want to kill it, then go to low sec or null and do that. People live in high sec precisely so you and people like you CAN'T do that. Like I have said before, not everyone wants to PVP. If you (cowardly) want to attack a defenseless ship, then go low. You say that you prefer null but it isn't fun with the coalitions, well high sec would not be fun for a vast number of people if there was a real good chance that someone like you were to come and gank them every time they undocked their Exhumer.

In short, Concord is there to protect those who do not want to engage in PVP. If you do want to PVP then move out of high sec.

Eve has a place for most people, don't try to turn it into a place for one group only.

It's same danger as it was a month ago.


Beating up miners and missioners isn't small-scale PVP.


Removing concord doesn't accomplish that


And the immediate result would be that the people you hope to gank would move to 0.8+ systems.

Apparantly one of the devs at the Vegas meeting made a remark that he'd favor the complete removal of concord.

To address some points below by random NPC corp alt. Note I'm neither for nor against removal or changing CONCORD, whatever happens, happens.



Tinfoil-hattery. While not everyone wants to engage in PVP, they should certainly accept that PVP may happen to them, and actively learn how to avoid being in a non-consensual PVP situation.

tl;dr whatever.

I read somewhere then there was no concord in eve for some time from some reason, and it was disaster no mission, no mining , no traveling (except pod express ), no trading, 90% of players were unable to play.

OK, I am noob so may be my knowledge base regarding EVE is modest one but can't understand what is the problem to make changes to CONCORD?

CCP can always rollback.

Furthermore - change is good.

The removal of CONCORD, why on Earth would anyone want that? Other than to harass those who make a living in high-sec because they choose not to venture out into the wilderness of null-sec.

IMHO, people who uphold the law in high-sec (and those that possess a humanitarian nature) should be able to work alongside CONCORD e.g. have a module or a probe that you can activate to call in CONCORD reinforcements, or be able to earn CONCORD-specialised weaponry/defensive modules.

For too long, the law breakers of this Universe have gotten away with murder (quite literally), and its' time the honest & virtuous were rewarded for their efforts and sacrifices to defend those that are weaker than them.

We do not want another Jita or Dodixie incident like that of which occurred earlier on this year, those aiding CONCORD should be allowed to bring whatever firepower they need in-order to defend the innocent, whereas the perpetrators should be dealt with swiftly.

Think of it like factional warfare but you join the side of CONCORD in maintaining peace.

Removing Concord would be biggest mistake CCP ever done. Eve needs relatively safe place to let new player grow strong and progress.
Also there is a place without Concord alredy - its lowsec and its so low populated because YOU bears and fail griefers doesnt have balls to enter it and live there.
Removing Concord from hisec wont make you man, it make you all little girls who are too afraid to undock.
So stop yapping take your guns and come to me little pussies.

Allowing players to police hi-sec would completely corrupt the system. Corps with deep wallets would offer bribes and be able to run rampant, while smaller corps and individual players would eventually be driven from the game.

-Snip-.