Venture is a gas miner. And it does a phenomenal job at it.

That may be so, but it's supposed to be a ninja miner for noobs. No doubt people will find other uses for it too, but let's not forget what it was created for in the first place.

Venture is a gas miner. And it does a phenomenal job at it.

^This. Move along.

They did the same thing with the Corax. The model is built for 8 missiles yet they make it 7? Come on, at least get rid of the obvious missile spot then.

Nope. Shan't.

As others have said, with the racial frigs being reassigned, the noobs needed this as a ninja miner. I understand it makes a great gas miner too, but we can't neglect the noobs.

Too many people get pulled in by awesome CCP trailers, only to be disappointed when they actually get in-game and find out that 50% of that trailer was bs. That's why they don't subscribe. All I'm saying is fix the Venture - make it like it was originally supposed to be. The noobs need this, and although you vets might not agree, trust me, Eve needs this too.

MO

So you want to make it a 'ninja' miner by allowing you to fit a third turret, thus removing it's ability to fit a cloak?

It *has* that third hard point there so that you can fit a salvager to it and actually have the salvager model show up. It was never intended to have a third turret. This is pure projection on your behalf. I also find it funny that you expect anyone to buy your talk about this being 'for teh noobs'. This isn't for the noobs, this is for you.

A resounding NO to this proposal.

Wow people, ever heard of utility high slots? Well a tractor and a salvager both go there, as do energy neuts and vamps and they all have models, so they have to have somewhere to go on the model. You aren't missing a missile slot, geeze.

EDIT: OK, so I checked the Corax model, and in this situation he's right. There actually ARE 8 hard points on the model, but only 7 high slots available. There is no utility high on the Corax. My point stands for other models that have this common complaint (Drake looking at you)

what are you BABBLING about?
venture is still FAR better than any of the mining frigs were before.
you just want to up its yield by 50% for no good reason other than, i assume, you want to make more isk.
train hulk skills like a normal miner so you can go complain about how the mack has made it obsolete...

EDIT:
there are also MANY ships that have utility highs that are modeled on the hull.
all BSs with more highs than turret slots for example (which is most of them).

Man you people have no idea how things work do you?

This ship already has a 100% bonus to mining yield. This means it effectively *HAS* 4 turrets. So this is a visual thing? You want it to look 'cooler' by having 4 lasers? Well, y'see here's the problem...

Miner II
CPU: 80
Power Grid: 4
Uses turret point.

200mm Autocannon II (the largest of the small autocannons)
CPU: 9
Power Grid: 4
Uses a turret point.

You want to allow people to put 4 full-sized small auto cannons onto this thing, and STILL have a pile of CPU and power grid left over. The reason why it has 2 hardpoints and a 100% bonus is to give it the 4 effective mining turrets without allowing it to be one of the best combat frigates in the game.

This ship is intended to be a stepping stone into the mining barges, and the best (just) gas miner. What it is NOT intended to be is an over the top combat frigate just so that it looks a bit better to a few people.

I'm not even going to go through your 'response' to my post, but I mean projection, and I typed projection. You will note that it is quite clearly spelled differently to conjecture. I'm not accusing you of making things up, I'm accusing you of projecting YOUR wants onto the newbies in an attempt to lend your complaint some credibility.

Fly a barge, you're not a newbie.

And that ladies and gentleman is the end of this debate, tune in next week for more pointless bitching and whining without actually looking at the facts first

Paikis I salute you!

The whole point of having a fitting tool is so you can fit it how YOU like.

Perhaps a better solution would be to either only allow the Venture to fit mining lasers and not weapon turrets.

I never understand why people are so opposed to change and would rather just put up with an inferior product, and try and comfort themselves with the most ridiculous reasons as to why the status-quo is ok. It's not ok. At all.

Perfection is beauty. The Venture as is stands is mess. It could be perfected as I have described above and become something beautiful, like the original designers intended. So I say again, fix the Venture please, CCP. Now we have the solution (as outlined above in the form of Micro Strip Miners), the debate is over. I would like to thank all contributors for their thoughts. Even though most of them sucked b*lls and weren't helpful or constructive or in any way geared towards finding a solution.

^This. Move along.

Anyway ontopic while having a utility high is great I don't think anyone would mind having the option of a third "miner"

Nope. Shan't.

As others have said, with the racial frigs being reassigned, the noobs needed this as a ninja miner. I understand it makes a great gas miner too, but we can't neglect the noobs.

Too many people get pulled in by awesome CCP trailers, only to be disappointed when they actually get in-game and find out that 50% of that trailer was bs. That's why they don't subscribe. All I'm saying is fix the Venture - make it like it was originally supposed to be. The noobs need this, and although you vets might not agree, trust me, Eve needs this too.

MO

Can it hold 4250 m3 of gas...

...and tank level 4 mining mission rats? (A couple frigs and the occasional cruiser?)

Ugh :( okay, I'm a n00b and I was looking for a pure mining fit for the Venture. Ended up reading all this drama ... I like that ships have high slots which are not turret hard points . . . cloak, salvager, probe ... I don't care, it is what it is and those who come to play Eve will learn how to cope :P

Thanx for no help and a waste of a read . . .not looking forward to anymore whining threads

This ship already has a 100% bonus to mining yield. This means it effectively *HAS* 4 turrets. So this is a visual thing? You want it to look 'cooler' by having 4 lasers? Well, y'see here's the problem...

Miner II
CPU: 80
Power Grid: 4
Uses turret point.

200mm Autocannon II (the largest of the small autocannons)
CPU: 9
Power Grid: 4
Uses a turret point.

You want to allow people to put 4 full-sized small auto cannons onto this thing, and STILL have a pile of CPU and power grid left over. The reason why it has 2 hardpoints and a 100% bonus is to give it the 4 effective mining turrets without allowing it to be one of the best combat frigates in the game.

This ship is intended to be a stepping stone into the mining barges, and the best (just) gas miner. What it is NOT intended to be is an over the top combat frigate just so that it looks a bit better to a few people.

I'm not even going to go through your 'response' to my post, but I mean projection, and I typed projection. You will note that it is quite clearly spelled differently to conjecture. I'm not accusing you of making things up, I'm accusing you of projecting YOUR wants onto the newbies in an attempt to lend your complaint some credibility.

Fly a barge, you're not a newbie.

The point is that gas harvesters want to see the 5 gas harvester skill used on a specialized ship like the Venture. Since the Venture limits the turrets to two but bonuses 100%, the expectation is then that there would be a mining cruiser with 5 turrets bonusing gas havesting 100%. Where is CCP talking about the Venture and any potential tierification work related to gas harvesting specialization ships?

The point is that gas harvesters want to see the 5 gas harvester skill used on a specialized ship like the Venture. Since the Venture limits the turrets to two but bonuses 100%, the expectation is then that there would be a mining cruiser with 5 turrets bonusing gas havesting 100%. Where is CCP talking about the Venture and any potential tierification work related to gas harvesting specialization ships?

You know what? I've changed my mind.
You are right, venture should have 3 turret slots.
While CCP are at it, they really need to give all marauders 7 turret/missile slots cos they have 7 highs. Nightmare should get 6 turret slots, legion should get 8 turret slots, naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots and lastly, i'd like my thrasher to be able to fit 7 capital guns and a siege mod thanks. yup, that would be awesome.

naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots

Ok bye ladies... Well while Paikis and Cirus get comfortable in a corner together somewhere, the "debate" meanwhile is far from over because we haven't solved the original problem yet.

.. and here I stopped reading.

MO

Do you have any idea just how good Gas Cloud Harvester IIs are, compared to tech 1? There's your reason to train Gas Cloud Harvesting to V..

Now, I'd rather have the option of the 3rd Miner II in the highs. But I mean what else are we supposed to put in there in its current state?

As for the aesthetics... meh. I don't care. I really don't. But changing the Venture to allow a third miner would paradoxically reduce its appeal for ninja work, and that would be bad. Capiche?

BUT my fav thing about the video is at about 1:24, when the torpedo / missile "drops" from the ship and then continues forward, like a missile from a jet. well, in space it really wouldn't "drop" lol, the reason being... gravity lol

lets say the planet nearby, fine, but have you seen nasa videos, that far from a planet, the gravitational effects are quite diluted from the surface's effects lmao.

However I would argue what we need is an expanded ORE lineup. - Like ORE mining cruisers, as intermediates between the frigate and the barges.... for simplicity, I'd simply give the noctis 8 turret slots... and let it fit 8 miner IIs... and have the progression go ORE Frigate -> ORE industrial -> ORE Mining Barge.

A rohk has a tiny cargo bay, does not use the same skill progression, and is too expensive to be an intermediate between the frigate and the barges.

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Cargohold Optimization I

Mining Drone II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

You know what? I've changed my mind.
You are right, venture should have 3 turret slots.
While CCP are at it, they really need to give all marauders 7 turret/missile slots cos they have 7 highs. Nightmare should get 6 turret slots, legion should get 8 turret slots, naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots and lastly, i'd like my thrasher to be able to fit 7 capital guns and a siege mod thanks. yup, that would be awesome.

All of this is true. And yet it was still one of the best mining ships right up until you had a Hulk.

For comparison, using only T2 modules...



This fit will mine 1284m3 per minute without any boosting and has 107,734 EHP. This is effectively 5 times the tank of a Mackinaw, but it has less yield. You just have to pay attention and dump to a can (a lot) more often. Also it just looks cool seeing 8 lasers coming off a Rokh!

Max yield comparison (m3/minute, no boosts, no implants, all Vs):
Venture: 823
Rokh: 1284
Retriever: 1405
Covetor: 1716
Mackinaw: 1718
Hulk: 1937

the ret takes about 7 days to train for, the venture is practically useless as a mining ship if your interest is only in minerals. 0 reason to train mining frig past I.

hence, the venture really is a gas mining ship and practically nothing else.

tell that to the idiots who tried to mine in lowsec in a proc or ret........ and met my talos

You should be asking for 5 turret slots and 5 high slots

All of this is true. And yet it was still one of the best mining ships right up until you had a Hulk.

For comparison, using only T2 modules...



This fit will mine 1284m3 per minute without any boosting and has 107,734 EHP. This is effectively 5 times the tank of a Mackinaw, but it has less yield. You just have to pay attention and dump to a can (a lot) more often. Also it just looks cool seeing 8 lasers coming off a Rokh!

Max yield comparison (m3/minute, no boosts, no implants, all Vs):
Venture: 823
Rokh: 1284
Retriever: 1405
Covetor: 1716
Mackinaw: 1718
Hulk: 1937

Because balance is not something that is important. Also, you have never mined gas in a wormhole, because if you had, you would know that you can't cloak anywhere NEAR a gas cloud.

Are you suggesting that running 5 Gas harvesters on a ship is in any way unbalanced? Even if bonuses increased the performance by 25% at Mining Frigate 5, this is still balanced. A 100% bonus at level 5 would still be balanced, because for mining it would still be far below the mining barge performance and for gas, most gases are worth very little to start and the null sec gases carry the high risk/danger.

Also, I have mined gas everywhere. Just because the 0m radius of the cloud is very large doesn't mean that you actually have to be in the cloud. GCH (Gas Cloud Harvester) II has a range of 1500m, so pick a spot near that range. When cloaking is desired, a short burn past 2000m renders the ship cloakable. A GCH range increase ship bonus would certainly play better into that role, though.

5 gas harvesters is not imbalanced, a lot of ships do this already. 5 gas harvesters with a bonus like the Venture's is imbalanced. If the Venture was able to fit 5 Gas Harvester IIs in addition to keeping its current bonuses, it would have the equivalent of 13 or so harvesters, which is almost 3 times as effective as anything else in the game.

Are you not okay with that? Or is gas harvesting serious business that you need variety within?

I'm not OK with gross imbalance. I also make a fair bit of ISK from harvesting gas, and I don't particularly want to crash the market.

OP... the Venture gets a 100% bonus to mining lasers... that means it technically has 4!

You can stop complaining now.

The IQ of this discussion just dropped to the floor with that last post. Me thinks that to you, Shah, OP means "does more than you think it should," and complaining means "suggesting something different." Let's raise the IQ of this discussion back to normal with standards-based reasons why you feel a certain way. Just because a ship has the equivalent of 4 when previously 5 have been easily used does not mean OP. Even if the bonuses made it equivalent to 15 does not make it inherently OP because it may be that 15 (or some number several times bigger than 5) works well for a specialized ship filling a void in the current game structure. So, Shah, re-read the previous discussion and think about the points a little before posting emotion-saturated non-sense.

The Venture has 5.33 effective gas harvesters, not 4. This is already the most effective gas mining ship in the game, and it is only a frigate. Combined with its other bonuses, I'd almost say the Venture is too good currently, and you people want to make it better?