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Suicide ganking Kestrels and Ice miners/roid miners in Empire

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The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:11:00 - [1] Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:13:14 Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:12:11 I really don't think it's fair that groups of alts in suicide kestrels can go into ice belts in empire or asteroid belts and gank ice miners or strip miners. They kill them for the loot then get yet another alt to pick up the loot. When the alt gets too low a rating they recycle. Ice mining is boring enough, and with expanders the 15min cycle is agony to sit and watch, and you need expanders because mining to a can is pointless due to the amount of ore thiefs everywhere. It is really not good that these people can attack your ship and destroy you before Concorde get there. Please can we give the Barges enough protection against the suicide squads, or at least make alts 10 days before you can recycle them instead of 10 hours. You can't go to war with them because they are in noob corps, You can't defend yourself in time, Ice mining is hardly profitable but essential to keep pos's running, Concorde are too slow to do anything, Make alts more accountable, really make it hard to recycle the alt
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:17:00 - [2] Petition as an exploit? Its lame but the only problem I have with this is the recycling. And if a trial account is petitioned a couple of times for this then they should ban the referer. I've not done the sums but perhaps the missile changes will offer a ray of light. Kessies will now pack less punch w/out skills.
Andarvi	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:25:00 - [3] There are things you can do to protect yourself, you know... Fit armour plates instead of expanders, get a friend (gasp!) to haul for you. Get out of that cozy 1.0 sytem and go 2-3 jumps off the highway, those systems are usually as deserted as 0.0. A 0.8 spawn shouldn't be able even to overcome your barge natural shield recharge, and 10 medium drones (in a large barge) are more than enough to take care of any spawns down to 0.5 ones. I do agree suicide alts are lame and should be adressed though.
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:30:00 - [4] Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:31:56 There is no ice off the highway, Drones do no damage before you are dead, Cannot mine to a can as ore thieves, I petitioned and the GM gave NO help at all and said it was perfectly allowed in the game mechanics!!! True, it's mainly the recycling, and the abilty to gank most ships with enough alt kestrels.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:32:00 - [5] should be allowed to shoot back at least. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:36:00 - [6] Originally by: The Procrastinator Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:13:14 Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:12:11 I really don't think it's fair that groups of alts in suicide kestrels can go into ice belts in empire or asteroid belts and gank ice miners or strip miners. They kill them for the loot then get yet another alt to pick up the loot. When the alt gets too low a rating they recycle. Ice mining is boring enough, and with expanders the 15min cycle is agony to sit and watch, and you need expanders because mining to a can is pointless due to the amount of ore thiefs everywhere. It is really not good that these people can attack your ship and destroy you before Concorde get there. Please can we give the Barges enough protection against the suicide squads, or at least make alts 10 days before you can recycle them instead of 10 hours. You can't go to war with them because they are in noob corps, You can't defend yourself in time, Ice mining is hardly profitable but essential to keep pos's running, Concorde are too slow to do anything, Make alts more accountable, really make it hard to recycle the alt Recycling alts is an exploit, petition THAT, and not the suicide kestral-thing, and ccp will listen. Repeat: Suicide kestral alts=not exploit, recycling suicide kestral alts=exploit.
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 06:39:00 - [7] Ok, so how do you defend yourself when Ice mining? You can't there is nothing you can do. I just think that alts should be more accountable, at the moment you can jump straight into a kestrel and gank someone for no cost at all. Then jump into another alt when it gets to hot.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.05.17 07:24:00 - [8] Originally by: The Procrastinator There is no ice off the highway, Drones do no damage before you are dead, Cannot mine to a can as ore thieves, Theres lots and lots and lots of ice, as well as other stuff, off the highway. Get out of the main 1.0 systems / highway systems and I'd doubt you'd see another kessie ganker in months.
LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe	Posted - 2005.05.17 07:28:00 - [9] 1. There are ice fields off the highway 2. if a kestral jumps in warp away (hes not there to mine) 3. If u have a ship in slightly lower sec space but still in .5 and above running defence put a couple remote shield transferers on and shoot them at the barge, have them staggered so u get a recharge before the kesy can blast u before concored insta own them. 4. Never think theres noway to solve a problem there always is u just need to use your brain. 5. Do u have a light its dark in here
Mr Gimlet	Posted - 2005.05.17 07:35:00 - [10] This poses a good point realy. If POS are to succeed then ice miners need to be left to get on with it. This is not going to happen just by asking these suicide kestrels to stop, so maybe some of the larger organisations need to come up with ways of making it very difficault for these kestrel squads to operate. After all its in there best interests, as if more people can mine ice in peace, then there is more fuel around for the POS operators to buy. Just a thought
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 07:51:00 - [11] Having multiple ships there boosting your shield makes ice mining even harder for the few that actually do it. Prices would sky rocket and pos's would be bought to their knees. All it takes is someone to BM your place, then warp in with 4 kestrels, by the time you've seen them and tried to warp it's too late.
Mr Tall	Posted - 2005.05.17 07:59:00 - [12] Quick question: Say a corp mate is mining in a barge, and there's a few of us cloaked in the belt, all in a gang. Suicide kessies warp in, and open fire on the barge - we decloak and start boosting his shields. Are we allowed to wtfpwnbbq the kessies, even though they haven't fired on us directly, without CONCORD intervention? Thanks in advance!
Smelly Muff	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:02:00 - [13] not sure but the barge will be dead in 2 volleys, which isn't enough time to do anything defence wise.
Booster Rooster	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:08:00 - [14] I'm getting fed up of this to!! The profit for ice is low as it is. the loss of 2 ships to these idiots stopped me from even bothering anymore
Secret Spy	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:11:00 - [15] ALT recycling has to be SORTED! Using them to spy is fine etc... but purley to gank in safe places is pointless and hurts the game
Monty Burns	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Booster Rooster ... 2 ships to these idiots stopped me ... Don't sound like idiots to me They spend naff all money and with no risk, spend a little time scouting various belts, find an unprepared Ice miner and spank him/her for some serious profit. When your mining ice, do you align for warp before you start? If your aligned then even in your slow barge you must stand a better chance to escape than if not aligned Maybe a WCS or two to ensure you can jump. Don't like it? Then mine in other places, do something about (traps with friends maybe), choose another mineral to mine? It's a perfectly valid tactic. CCP encourage us to do our own policing. Get your corp mates there and do something about it. (On a side note, i heard that barges were getting a HP increase, did this happen?) Best of luck Ice Miners, sounds like you need it! Darwin 4tw
Handon Guild	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:22:00 - [17] Please stop your whining! Mmorpg means Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME, or something like that, right? So, some people has decided to go into empire to spice things u a little for those dusty miners. I'm not saying anything bad about miners, because we need them, I gladly admit that. But please, how often do you see a kessie-raid in empire? So what if you loose 50 mil in a Raid? It'll take you max one week to earn back those money. If you don't want to loose your precious mining barge, well just jump away when you see a lone kessie flying about. I know that many miners think themselves perfectly safe in Empire, far away from harm EVER. That shouldn't be true in a Role Playing Game. Empire has been far too quiet for a long time, and I think i's great that somebody took the initiative and made a little stirr in the pond - nice going ------------------------------------------------ A day of fun in Denmark
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:23:00 - [18] So how do you police people who are in a nooby corp (can't declare war on them), even aligned to warp it takes a few seconds to kill a barge. Ice prices are going to go high if this keeps on, and pos's will start to come down, so tech 2 prices will go up.
Jon Hawkes	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Mr Tall Quick question: Say a corp mate is mining in a barge, and there's a few of us cloaked in the belt, all in a gang. Suicide kessies warp in, and open fire on the barge - we decloak and start boosting his shields. Are we allowed to wtfpwnbbq the kessies, even though they haven't fired on us directly, without CONCORD intervention? Thanks in advance! If I recall correctly, if someone takes the first shot against a corp mate, you are allowed to return fire. I do not think this applies to gangs though. However, if you were cloaked, you would not be able to lock onto your corp mate in the barge for some time after decloaking, thus making remote shield boosters useless.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:39:00 - [20] Originally by: The Procrastinator So how do you police people who are in a nooby corp (can't declare war on them), OK .. I will spell this out ... your corp mates make there own suicide Kezzie pilots to get them or you can set up an ice miner to (limited) tank some damage, you only have to last 30 seconds for Concord to do the biz. There are many more options. Remember I said TRAP Originally by: The Procrastinator even aligned to warp it takes a few seconds to kill a barge. So your telling me that the minute your scanner shows a frig size [] icon at 15km that if your aligned you cannot warp away quick enough????!!!!??? Come on! As someone else said, he aint there to mine . Don't wait for him to lock you. Just GO! Don't try n ninja in 0.0 when rats spawn on you at 10km away If this is the case then I suggest you may need some frig PvP experience in order to learn how to deal with frigs before getting into one of these bigger boats. If i can get a mammoth in AND out next to a frig and battleship spawn in 0.0 (with expanders in lows) im sure you can get your barge out from a kezzie when it comes in at 15km+ and your aligned to warp. Originally by: The Procrastinator Ice prices are going to go high if this keeps on, and pos's will start to come down, so tech 2 prices will go up. And the net result? An ice miner can then make more money, to fund more ships and equipment whilst also making more profit .... i dont see a problem with this? A good ice mining pilot will be able to escape these nasty ebil people 95% and make lots n lots of isk ... yum yum I suggest the problem here is that Ice Mining is so boring that people loose concentration and don't monitor the scanners properly, well, that and they think they are 100% safe in Empire I reckon the first most of these people that die know they have another ship in there area is the return lock noise. Last words of some Ice Miners "WTF! Where TF did he come from!?" (puts on flame proof suit ) Darwin 4tw
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:43:00 - [21] Ok point taken, but with such long cycle times, 15 mins with expanders.... no one is going to sit and watch the screen for that long....no one would mine ice, egg timer and a video is the way.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:51:00 - [22] Originally by: The Procrastinator Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:31:56 There is no ice off the highway, I was ready to support you until I saw this. Now you're just being lazy. There's TONS of ice off the highways. It's just that people are too lazy to look for it. PS Sweet sig Monty.
Ace Garpy	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:57:00 - [23] Not had this happen to me yet but I can see both sides. However those of you that say this is a valid tactic is not right. This is an exploit by using the Alts as flying bombs. How many players would risk a proper character doing this little tactic? Not many! I never understood the point in using Alts or even having a game have alts in it. I never use them as for me it loses the immersion and gaming experience. Using an alt to probe a 0.0 jump-gate and risk his / her destruction rather than an experienced toon.
Eraza	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:57:00 - [24] i agree, i dont care really that people still use suicide tactics... the PROBLEM, is that a large mining barge, + a proper fitting, costs like 30-40 mil isk, and can easily be killed by a couple of frigates, before concord even appears...
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.05.17 08:57:00 - [25] Originally by: DrunkenOne Recycling alts is an exploit, petition THAT, and not the suicide kestral-thing, and ccp will listen. Repeat: Suicide kestral alts=not exploit, recycling suicide kestral alts=exploit. He speaks true recycling alts when their security status is too low is concidered an exploit. If you petition it CCP will take action against it and the player. If actions are taking against the player this included their main character. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Eraza	Posted - 2005.05.17 09:10:00 - [26] well, precicely what is an exploit is ccp's to decide.. not ours.. :) however, i was thinking.. would it help, to get an alt to the area first, and shoot someone, so that concord would watch over the miners... mabey that's an exploit, i dunno.. i myself just move out of the highway, to low traffic areas, where it's much less likely to get attacked, or even noticed, by anyone :)
The Procrastinator	Posted - 2005.05.17 09:11:00 - [27] Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 09:11:07 I think making the recycle time on alts much longer is ther way forward. 3 alts is enough to do what you should use alts for, no need to keep changing recycling your up to no good.
Hella May	Posted - 2005.05.17 09:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Handon Guild Please stop your whining! Mmorpg means Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME, or something like that, right? So, some people has decided to go into empire to spice things u a little for those dusty miners. I'm not saying anything bad about miners, because we need them, I gladly admit that. But please, how often do you see a kessie-raid in empire? So what if you loose 50 mil in a Raid? It'll take you max one week to earn back those money. If you don't want to loose your precious mining barge, well just jump away when you see a lone kessie flying about. I know that many miners think themselves perfectly safe in Empire, far away from harm EVER. That shouldn't be true in a Role Playing Game. Empire has been far too quiet for a long time, and I think i's great that somebody took the initiative and made a little stirr in the pond - nice going And for the bloke who said stop whineing about thisà.. STFU and get a life, or at least think before you speak. Using exploits isnÆt part of the game and recycling alts isnÆt either. As some wise individual said, petition the exploit not the killing. Also, if they wanna act like children do the sameà get alts in kestrels to gank their kestrels 1st. Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2005.05.17 09:45:00 - [29] Edited by: Monty Burns on 17/05/2005 09:50:27 Originally by: Ace Garpy ....I never understood the point in using Alts or even having a game have alts in it. .... I have to agree, is there really any valid reason for having alt's? As we can only train one character at a time it really does not seem practical. I guess CCP have to offer a "choice" <shrug> three reasons NOT to have alts: Suicide Kezzies Scouts (come on people, get some round things and scout with your mains - i do) Forum posts (again, get some round things and put in a corp/alliance disclaimer) Just seems a complete waste to me and way too exploitable. Darwin 4tw
Jags	Posted - 2005.05.17 09:48:00 - [30] make barges stronger - more HP for armor & hull will stop these ganks in an instant but not prevent a corp that is at war killing them. Say add on 200% to both (dont have the current figures as im at work now) Cant say ive ever seen it happen though as we mine ice and mins a wee bit off the main drags. Sill busy with ore thiefs but hey you can deal with them

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