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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.17 15:05:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Alex Harumichi
This solves a bunch of problems with one swell foop,
I say, theres a lot of cattleships and bruisers around today
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.05.17 15:10:00 -
[62]
Quote:
wont people get trigger happy when they see a flashing pod in empire ?
Did you ever hear of instas or clone moves??? As i said it¦s no problem to get 2-3 very mean -10 pilots into Yulai. Then have a scout scanning the barges for good loot. Then have 2-3 pilots moving Caracals into position. The -10 guys warp in pod to the Caracals. "Clean" player ejetcs and -10 pilot boards ship. Lock, fire and wait for Concord to spawn. No exploit, no alt miss-use. Then the surviving scout grabs the loot. It¦s called empire piracy. It does not hit poor n00bs, it hits very old players that have tons of ISK and good modules. What wrong with this???
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Kumq uat
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Posted - 2005.05.17 15:53:00 -
[63]
How about givin med and large barges an extra medium slot and a bit more power/CPU to run shield chargers
Tired of mining the same looking rock for thousands of hours you care bear you? www.freeallegiance.org |
Sharadar
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Posted - 2005.05.17 15:59:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bubba Fett
One partial solution would be for CPP to simply charge to terminate an alt the way they do to change your portrait.
The idea behind the alt is that you can remake a character if you screw up the first time or so that you can explore another career path. (industrialist main and a pirate alt)
It also give you a way to log on when your main is stuck.
I'm pretty sure the alt was never intended as an expendable character so why not nerf the recycling of them the way they've nerfed all the other unintended game features that people have discovered?
Another solution would to put the name of the accounts other characters in the killmail or the name of the person who gave them the buddy account. This would make SOMEONE accountable.
If you're a pirate and you really HAVE to be anonymous then you buy another boxed copy of eve that has no ties to your main and pay to transfer your alt to that.
I really like the idea that alts cannot be deleted, unless you pay some for it. Revealing the identity of all players on the account for a single kill mail does not seem a good idea though.
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Dewar Scrabulous
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Posted - 2005.05.17 16:11:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
wont people get trigger happy when they see a flashing pod in empire ?
Did you ever hear of instas or clone moves??? As i said it¦s no problem to get 2-3 very mean -10 pilots into Yulai. Then have a scout scanning the barges for good loot. Then have 2-3 pilots moving Caracals into position. The -10 guys warp in pod to the Caracals. "Clean" player ejetcs and -10 pilot boards ship. Lock, fire and wait for Concord to spawn. No exploit, no alt miss-use. Then the surviving scout grabs the loot. It¦s called empire piracy. It does not hit poor n00bs, it hits very old players that have tons of ISK and good modules. What wrong with this???
As far as I know, nothing, and I like you ingenuity. Of course, I'm the same empire-dweller who supports ore theives and other such miscreants, so I'm probably no judge.
-Dewar
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.17 16:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Moominer
Originally by: Eraza
i agree, i dont care really that people still use suicide tactics... the PROBLEM, is that a large mining barge, + a proper fitting, costs like 30-40 mil isk, and can easily be killed by a couple of frigates, before concord even appears...
Barges need a substantial armor/structure boost or much higher resistances to prevent this.
It is not like they have the capacitor whilst mining to tank anyway.
Umm...perhaps this indicates that CCP never intended barges to be mining without an escort?
This is all the price of mining in empire. Adapt or die.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.05.17 16:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Eris Discordia
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
I was going to ignore this but it just chaps me to see someone in a position of authority do something like this.
The GM's can look it up and verify if someone is using an alt to recycle to do suicide kestrel missions. Next you have a problem with what I say you can mail [email protected] by the way.
I do not disagree with you the fact remains that the players cannot. There is no way to know if the ganker killing ice miners now is a new alt from the ganker that was killing ice miners a few days ago. This is what my complaint is about! How do we identify who is doing this... answer we cannot unless the ganker is dumb and announcing it to the world. Saying make a petition... make a petition for what? Alot of good it does to make unfounded accusations on players.
Once again I fall back on my position of CCP does not really care about gankers killing ice miners in high sec space. In fact, I see it as a way to drive miners out of high sec space by CCP, how is that for a theory.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.05.17 16:57:00 -
[68]
Quote:
I do not disagree with you the fact remains that the players cannot. There is no way to know if the ganker killing ice miners now is a new alt from the ganker that was killing ice miners a few days ago. This is what my complaint is about! How do we identify who is doing this... answer we cannot unless the ganker is dumb and announcing it to the world. Saying make a petition... make a petition for what? Alot of good it does to make unfounded accusations on players.
Well just petition it anyway. You don't need to know, the GMs can check. Also, if the character is in a noob corp and a few days old, that means it's probably an alt.
-
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:01:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Once again I fall back on my position of CCP does not really care about gankers killing ice miners in high sec space. In fact, I see it as a way to drive miners out of high sec space by CCP, how is that for a theory.
I've been saying that for a month now, ever since Big Doggy's bounty offers, but noone believed me  .
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:02:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Gabby05 on 17/05/2005 17:10:28
Alts
spys
specalists
thieves
gankers
explorers
No accountability
having longer recycle periods just gives em time to train up the other char to become a griefin gankadon.
Take away the alt you get the 14 day trialers doing all of the above.
How can CCP know for a fact a recycled alt was an exploit, and why dont they make the recycle period last as long as their subscription lasts.
Those that use 14 day trials only get 1 char and gets penalised for ganking in high sec empire space areas, i.e. subscription ends now pay for the privilege.
And as for the sad individuals that gank miners just cos they hate miners and only do it to miners of +1yr well you can go SUCK MY @%#* YOU "@*% wasters, supposed to enjoy the game, do it for fun you gonna make a protest about it do it for something in RL, morons!.
As for the miners TANK UP OR SHUT UP!
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:06:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Gabby05
Alts
spys
specalists
thieves
gankers
explorers
No accountability
having longer recycle periods just gives em time to train up the other char to become a griefin gankadon.
Take away the alt you get the 14 day trialers doing all of the above.
How can CCP know for a fact a recycled alt was an exploit, and why dont they make the recycle period last as long as their subscription lasts.
Those that use 14 day trials only get 1 char and gets penalised for ganking in high sec empire space areas, i.e. subscription ends now pay for the privilege.
So let me get this straight: you want to implement a system where if someone wants to try the game and then attacks in Empire, BAM the trial ends and they have to pay? What an absolutely horrible idea.
The devs can see a history of actions taken on an account. That's how they know if there's an alt recycling exploit goin on.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
DARTHEXIDOUS
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:06:00 -
[72]
Alrighty then Ive looked at all the above posts and come to this conclution about the kessys attacking in empire.
(1)Cuz they can
(2)Cuz they proberly board
""And most importantly""
(3)Thats all they can attack as anything up the scale ladder is far to hard for them to take out like going into 0.0 and taking on corps down there.
They go after the ships that are easy to take out because thats the only ships they can take out mwhahahahah sorry im laughing my head off here what lamers (proberly under the age of 16 they are :P).
Now real skilled suicide pilots can take out the real ships in 0.0 so come-on down and see if you can take out my sniperthron if you are man enough or woman enough as the case may be hehehehe.
I bet they dont they too yellow bellied chickens :P:P:P |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Gabby05
Alts
spys
specalists
thieves
gankers
explorers
spies => valid gameplay
specalists => valid gameplay
thieves => valid gameplay in need of a bit more balance
gankers => valid gameplay in need of a bit more balance
explorers => no one explores, there's no need to
Yup, alts are fine.
The problem is in acountability and being safe from retribution. The latter is easy to change, just make ti so that returning to the noobcorps is impossible, kick players older then 3 months from them, make the other NPC corps open to war declarations. Acountability as in making everyone's alts public is utopic however, simply not going to happen.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:21:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Gabby05 on 17/05/2005 17:31:47
If your getting 10 or more people complaining about the same person its just spoiling their game. If he really likes the game he will pay, and if he dont then he aint gonna miss out on anything.
Your just tryin to create a scenario with a problem in it that doesnt have a problem to it.
After all its probably more convenient to use a 14 day trial account, as you can skill up that char while you skill your main char at the same time go on a 2 week greifer course and redo it all over again :)
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:31:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Gabby05
Didnt necessarily say take it completely just deduct the days, if some guenuine new guy wants to play pirate then fine. If he really likes the game he will pay, and if he dont then he aint gonna miss out on anything.
Your just tryin to create a scenario with a problem in it that doesnt have a problem to it.
The problem is from the business standpoint. You'd be saying from the getgo that miners get special privileges over PvPers, which would totally kill the influx of new PvPers. You'd be descriminating against your customers based on their chosen form of gameplay, and that's not only a serious problem but pushes a couple of legal buttons. You're basically saying, "What? You want to actually try the game as one of THOSE people? Well, you don't get to unless you pay now!".
That sort of consumer descrimination would gut EVE because new players would be scarce. You can't penalize someone for getting EVE to try PvP. By forcing them to become a paid account before the trial is over and buy 30 days of time, that's exactly what you're doing and people won't even try the game at all.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:41:00 -
[76]
and what about the players tryin to play the game how can people tell if their being harrassed or just being ganked by a wannabe pirate.
And the regular players have to abide by the rules, i cant see a person thats just gettin his head around the game mechanics would repeatedly waste mining barges.
Kestrals cost +150k shuttles cost 9000isk (on average)not including equipment, new players start out with 1000isk. Sure they can get donations from corps but why would they waste all that money when they've only just got the ship.
Theres little tell tail signs of whos new and who is a griefer.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.05.17 17:53:00 -
[77]
Looks like some of you don¦t understand: alts are not needed to Kessi-attack someone in Yulai. It can be done with -10 chars that board the suididal ship right in front of the prey.
The real problem are people not accepting that 1.0 is not safe and opening 5000 topics within 2 years - and why? Because they want to run their fncking macro.
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Kuriatai
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Posted - 2005.05.17 18:09:00 -
[78]
Someone suggested opening npc corps to war declaration.
Can you say "ganker paradise" ?
By the way, I have not mined in .9 or 1.0 since I got my Imicus and have never seen an ore thief or a suicide kessie.
It's just possible that mining in a crowded highway system
attracts pirates and it would be a good idea to go somewhere
else. 
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Christof Jackson
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Posted - 2005.05.17 18:18:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Lifewire
What wrong with this???
That's exquisitely dastardly. I love it.
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EvilDoomer
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Posted - 2005.05.17 18:23:00 -
[80]
Im sorry I dont agree. Why is it an exploit.
Because I blow my ship up to kill you.
Thanks
EvilDoomer
Chicago Mobsters
** Ghost Fleet Pilot **
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.17 18:45:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gabby05
and what about the players tryin to play the game how can people tell if their being harrassed or just being ganked by a wannabe pirate.
And the regular players have to abide by the rules, i cant see a person thats just gettin his head around the game mechanics would repeatedly waste mining barges.
Kestrals cost +150k shuttles cost 9000isk (on average)not including equipment, new players start out with 1000isk. Sure they can get donations from corps but why would they waste all that money when they've only just got the ship.
Theres little tell tail signs of whos new and who is a griefer.
Actually let me tell you how some of that can work.
I brought a couple of RL m8s into the game. First thing one of em wanted to do was mine, so off he went and now he's working his way slowly to low-sec and eventually 0.0, because he knows i'll pod him if he doesn't. The other one luvvies the missiles...
So I sent him 1.5 mil and taught him how to suicide bomb in a kestrel.
I see a new player that thinks mining is dull, I offer to get them into a kestrel and show em how to suicide bomb.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2005.05.17 19:14:00 -
[82]
Quote:
Also, if they wanna act like children do the sameà get alts in kestrels to gank their kestrels 1st.
You miss the point of the 'suicide kessie alt' entirely - they don't care if you have another kessie there to deal with them, or any other defenders. They know how weak barges are, and just how long they've got to keep their kes alive to blow it up - if your cruiser does for them, they don't give a rat's ass, so long as they kill the barge (which invariably happens).
They're just going to recycle the alt, so what matters to them if they get shot down, even podded, when another kes is waiting in their station to rinse & repeat until alt recycle time.
IMO CCP could fix this two ways: Double the armour of a barge (I generally fit armour plate), or give it 1 or 2 more high slots with just enough grid/cpu to fit rocket launchers - that gives the barge some defenders to counter missiles/rockets, or rockets of its own. Simple fix.
That will not stop suicide kessies, but it will make them blob up, lowering the convenience factor and increasing the cost to gank a barge.
Though, as yet, none of my chars have been popped by this tactic. I have lost one to a war and carelessly having my battle-mammoth away for a few minutes dropping off ore. Miner was popped and podded by an incursus of all things. :) Luckily it was just a retriever, 12 mil overall loss.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2005.05.17 20:10:00 -
[83]
Originally by: The Procrastinator
Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:13:14
Edited by: The Procrastinator on 17/05/2005 06:12:11
I really don't think it's fair that groups of alts in suicide kestrels can go into ice belts in empire or asteroid belts and gank ice miners or strip miners.
They kill them for the loot then get yet another alt to pick up the loot. When the alt gets too low a rating they recycle. Ice mining is boring enough, and with expanders the 15min cycle is agony to sit and watch, and you need expanders because mining to a can is pointless due to the amount of ore thiefs everywhere.
It is really not good that these people can attack your ship and destroy you before Concorde get there.
Please can we give the Barges enough protection against the suicide squads, or at least make alts 10 days before you can recycle them instead of 10 hours.
You can't go to war with them because they are in noob corps,
You can't defend yourself in time,
Ice mining is hardly profitable but essential to keep pos's running,
Concorde are too slow to do anything,
Make alts more accountable, really make it hard to recycle the alt
Being an Ice pirate is a part of eve. Deal with it. Har Har Har!
These threads rank right up there with corps thieves.
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Monty Burns
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Posted - 2005.05.17 20:44:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
spies => valid gameplay
specalists => valid gameplay
thieves => valid gameplay in need of a bit more balance
gankers => valid gameplay in need of a bit more balance
explorers => no one explores, there's no need to
All of the above ARE valid styles of game play, but FFS people, grow some round things between your legs and do it with your MAINS. I do, I have and I always will. CCP, get rid of ALTS.
(er .... except play a thief, unless you count selling shuttles for 10mil to Curse?)
Laters!
Darwin 4tw
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.05.17 21:07:00 -
[85]
Only thing that needs to happen is both sides in this need to adopt the same strategy.
Currently one side does, the other doesn't.
Teamplays the word.
Thats cutting aside the obvious things you could do to prevent this, most of which mentioned above.
Alt's are fine, maybe you should try it yourself, wait till you see Mr ubber, im a idiot hundreds of millions in my hauler guy at a gate, your eyes will pop.
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Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/ |
Galeo
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Posted - 2005.05.17 22:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Monty Burns
Originally by: Booster Rooster
... 2 ships to these idiots stopped me ...
Don't sound like idiots to me  They spend naff all money and with no risk, spend a little time scouting various belts, find an unprepared Ice miner and spank him/her for some serious profit.
When your mining ice, do you align for warp before you start? If your aligned then even in your slow barge you must stand a better chance to escape than if not aligned Maybe a WCS or two to ensure you can jump.
Don't like it? Then mine in other places, do something about (traps with friends maybe), choose another mineral to mine?
It's a perfectly valid tactic. CCP encourage us to do our own policing. Get your corp mates there and do something about it.
(On a side note, i heard that barges were getting a HP increase, did this happen?)
Best of luck Ice Miners, sounds like you need it! 
Wow - you're a moron.....
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Galeo
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Posted - 2005.05.17 22:30:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Handon Guild
Please stop your whining!
Mmorpg means Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME, or something like that, right?
So, some people has decided to go into empire to spice things u a little for those dusty miners. I'm not saying anything bad about miners, because we need them, I gladly admit that. But please, how often do you see a kessie-raid in empire? So what if you loose 50 mil in a Raid? It'll take you max one week to earn back those money.
If you don't want to loose your precious mining barge, well just jump away when you see a lone kessie flying about. I know that many miners think themselves perfectly safe in Empire, far away from harm EVER.
That shouldn't be true in a Role Playing Game. Empire has been far too quiet for a long time, and I think i's great that somebody took the initiative and made a little stirr in the pond - nice going
WOW - you are a bigger moron......
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Galeo
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Posted - 2005.05.17 22:37:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Monty Burns
Originally by: The Procrastinator
So how do you police people who are in a nooby corp (can't declare war on them),
OK .. I will spell this out ... your corp mates make there own suicide Kezzie pilots to get them or you can set up an ice miner to (limited) tank some damage, you only have to last 30 seconds for Concord to do the biz. There are many more options. Remember I said TRAP
Originally by: The Procrastinator
even aligned to warp it takes a few seconds to kill a barge.
So your telling me that the minute your scanner shows a frig size [] icon at 15km that if your aligned you cannot warp away quick enough????!!!!??? Come on! As someone else said, he aint there to mine . Don't wait for him to lock you. Just GO! Don't try n ninja in 0.0 when rats spawn on you at 10km away If this is the case then I suggest you may need some frig PvP experience in order to learn how to deal with frigs before getting into one of these bigger boats. If i can get a mammoth in AND out next to a frig and battleship spawn in 0.0 (with expanders in lows) im sure you can get your barge out from a kezzie when it comes in at 15km+ and your aligned to warp.
Originally by: The Procrastinator
Ice prices are going to go high if this keeps on, and pos's will start to come down, so tech 2 prices will go up.
And the net result? An ice miner can then make more money, to fund more ships and equipment whilst also making more profit .... i dont see a problem with this? A good ice mining pilot will be able to escape these nasty ebil people 95% and make lots n lots of isk ... yum yum 
I suggest the problem here is that Ice Mining is so boring that people loose concentration and don't monitor the scanners properly, well, that and they think they are 100% safe in Empire I reckon the first most of these people that die know they have another ship in there area is the return lock noise.
Last words of some Ice Miners "WTF! Where TF did he come from!?"
(puts on flame proof suit )
Have you ever mined?!
You couldn't have, or you would know how dumb your post is. Mining is like watching grass grow. In Empire your are not going to be super mega-alert when it takes 15 freakin minutes to go through one cycle, you are going to be checking markets, alt-tabbing and reading threads, etc.
Get off your ignorant high-horse about setting up this that or the other crap to do something as mundane as ice-mining. Something already boring that lacks attention, should require attention cause some jerk-off wants to get his rocks off suiciding an alt?
Man, get a clue moronà
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Confession Time
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Posted - 2005.05.17 22:48:00 -
[89]
Quote:
All of the above ARE valid styles of game play, but FFS people, grow some round things between your legs and do it with your MAINS. I do, I have and I always will. CCP, get rid of ALTS.
Agree, But i dont want "round things" between my legs unless they are "slapping" "something" at a nice pace.
Everyone likes to say more time to delete alts. I think the way EVE is set up one toon is enough per account. No need for Loot mules in this game. Besides, i havent really seen Actions have any effect on anyone. Just fire up an alt to get all the uber ganked loot back to Empire to sell. Puts on flame suite *
...Bless me Father, for i have sinned....
BIG _______ TIME!!!
Saving your soul, One confession at a time, will blackmail you later |
Galeo
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Posted - 2005.05.17 22:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Originally by: Moominer
Originally by: Eraza
i agree, i dont care really that people still use suicide tactics... the PROBLEM, is that a large mining barge, + a proper fitting, costs like 30-40 mil isk, and can easily be killed by a couple of frigates, before concord even appears...
Barges need a substantial armor/structure boost or much higher resistances to prevent this.
It is not like they have the capacitor whilst mining to tank anyway.
Umm...perhaps this indicates that CCP never intended barges to be mining without an escort?
This is all the price of mining in empire. Adapt or die.
What's the point of having an escort if the escort cannot fire in Empire, atleast you had to be told that...
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