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Zack Korth
The Deneveh Collective High Rollers
60
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 08:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
i like null because there is no ninja looters, i don't have to go get a mission, or traverse multiple systems to go back an get my noctis, i like that my m8s are all there in the same space, and really, its not all that unsafe. I have lost no ships of importance since joining the HBC, i think i lost some candy ass talwar, thats about it, even on roams, which are quick and easy to get into and get movin. I just prefer null to anything else, i can do the things i wanna do faster, if that makes any sense.. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2310
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 08:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:No More Heroes wrote:Vallista wrote:I have to wonder, how many of you folks who don't understand the monotony of mining, missioning or whatever and live for pvp have shot a pos? I have shot dozens and dozens of pos, the difference between that and missioning and mining is that usually we have intel of a hostile fleet inbound to try and poop in our cheerios, or you're hoping that the lone hostile in local lights a cyno and drops a fleet on your head. The anticipation/hope of pvp is the difference. I'm sure theres not too many miners out there watching their lasers cycle and thinking "Boy I hope someone tries to gank me." They're probably not even at the keyboard or are tabbed out doing something else. It's great when you see that cyno. And then one of the drakes in your fleet also drops a cyno. And then suddenly blobs from both sides just start bridging in at 0. Chaos. Except no one does that unless they are incredibly bored. Intel is easily gathered and spies are everywhere. Any fleet ballsy enough to hot drop on another massive fleet usually means they have enough intel to think they can win. Also they have enough spies and scouts with lovely instant intel to know if there will be a counter drop. You guys keep going on about this amazing battle and that amazing battle but in all honesty those fights are so very few and so far apart. There is thousands and thousands of systems in null space; is a couple large fights a month or two really a sign of a healthy form of intel gathering and power projection??
The very system you love is the same one that hurts you. Just like Concord is the same mechanic that hurts high sec pilots from suicide gankers.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
258
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Posted - 2012.12.17 08:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Considering that any walled community can be considered a ghetto, then yes, that's exactly what it is. NBSI. In reality we have gated communities. In EvE we have gatecamped communities.
I've often wondered if it were possible for a benign group to establish themselves some sov in nullsec, police it from pirates, encourage free trade... but then I realized that any such group would quickly be squashed by all the hyper-aggressive power trippers that live next door.
And there's the problem: The very nature of nullsec rewards the biggest jerks. The only way to become King of the Jerks is the be the biggest jerk in the kingdom. Even if he wanted to change things he couldn't, because the moment he stopped being the Biggest Jerk then he'd get shot in the back and replaced by someone who was. It can''t be changed... but it's not like they'd even want to.
There is a certain irony, of course. Nullsec was a originally meant to be a place where people would have more personal freedom to do what they want that Empire space offered. In reality, it's the exact opposite. Nullsec has become so feudalized over the years, with camping & botting down to an exact science, that now it's hisec that offers the most freedom to players.
In the end, the entire "nerf hisec" movement is driven entirely by this envy. It's not about safety, it's not about money. It's about freedom. The freedom to place your POS anywhere you've got the standings. The freedom to fly where you want, mine where you want, ship where you want, build where you want, and all without having to kiss anyone's butts for permission. The freedom to work for your own goals and not those of your overlord.
The other thing that nullbears like to forget is this: Not everyone in EvE is a triple-account no-lifer who lives for e-peen enlargement by bullying others. Y'know some of us have jobs and families and stuff and we really have no desire to get dragged into all the tedious political drama of nullsec. We like to be able to play the game casually and without having to look over our shoulders every two seconds. We play the game for our enjoyment, not theirs - and I believe that is what really makes them sick to their stomachs. See "freedom" above. Every moment of their EvE life is so totally controlled and anxiety driven that seeing people over in hisec actually having fun - and worse, having fun in a way that isn't exactly like themselves - just offends them on some deep, personal level. A level that involves numerous personal issues that I'm not going to go into. I'll just say that maybe they should, I dunno, leave the house more often or something.
Is there poop in your corner of the sandbox? Does it stink? Too bad, but that's no excuse to go spreading it around. Do you see us hisec people whine that nullsec needs to be nerfed? No, because frankly we don't give a crap. See, we've got a very simple solution for all of nullsec's problems: We don't go there. We just let them do their only thing, unmolested and (here is the the part that really angers them) totally ignored. We really don't give a crap about all of their self-inflicted problems. Because in the end these problems aren't so much problems with the game but problems with themselves (see above).
And nullbears, you can't win this one. Sure, you control all the CSM seats. You can use that power to nerf hisec until there is no one left playing there at all. And you'll know what will happen then? The carebears won't come join you and your obsessive lifestyle. We'll just quit. Find other games, or, I dunno, spend more time gardening or something.
You'll be alone. EvE Forum Bingo |
Xessej
Darqsyde Exploration Limited Mass - Effect
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 08:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
The problems with getting players to nullsec begins with the way the game is designed. Docking at a station where your stuff is stored is clearly a basic part of the design. Outposts aren't common in nullsec and very few are available to a solo player or smallish unaligned corp trying to enter nullsec. Trying to live exclusively out of a POS is a pain and adds security issues that make recruiting additional members challenging. Even if a corp decides to make a go of nullsec in some out of the way corner they just get a cap or supercap fleet dropped on their tower(s) for their trouble.
So to get people to move out there the hassle of doing so needs to be decreased, probably by improving POS. And a disincentive needs to be created to get the big 0.0 alliances to leave alone the small alliances claiming sov in a couple of systems.
Only when this stuff is done can any change to risk v reward hope to draw players out to 0.0 space. |
Sentamon
374
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Posted - 2012.12.17 08:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
How will buffing Nullsec stop everyone from blueing each other and making massive carebear formations in a handful of systems ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Zack Korth
The Deneveh Collective High Rollers
61
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 08:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
The other thing that nullbears like to forget is this: Not everyone in EvE is a triple-account no-lifer who lives for e-peen enlargement by bullying others. Y'know some of us have jobs and families and stuff and we really have no desire to get dragged into all the tedious political drama of nullsec.
when i was a kid, we used to call people like you SISSIES!
being as were now adults, all i'll say is, i respectfully disagree good sir. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
183
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:How will buffing Nullsec stop everyone from blueing each other and making massive carebear formations in a handful of systems
What the hell does that even mean? |
Sentamon
374
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Sentamon wrote:How will buffing Nullsec stop everyone from blueing each other and making massive carebear formations in a handful of systems What the hell does that even mean?
Recruit more little goonie. Bigger zergs that do nothing but blob are sure to make nullsucks better. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5795
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
maybe if nullsec space was actually worth holding in comparison to getting everything for free in hisec, you'd actually have more than just token resistance to invasions and groups forming up to contest sov space, not just moons??? and maybe if the sov system wasn't a giant joke people would actually, you know, consider the idea of taking somebody's space from underneath them, assuming that the space was worth holding in comparison to literally being given everything you can possibly want in the safety of highsec with zero effort ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2312
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing.
... and since it's so mind numbing and boring, let's make it take ten times longer in the name of ~balance~! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Mr Pragmatic
183
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Man, the Bull Shi...er Goon propaganda is strong in here.
1)First of all, no one cares about your pretty little wars you have in null sec.
2)Risk VS Reward Risk VS Reward. That is what you perceive to be valid argument. But your wrong, no one MAKES you live in null and conduct your reindeer games.
3)Eve is about choices and consequences, if you want to live in the ghetto and complain about how your not getting payed move to Hi sec where the real jobs are at.
4)Just because your sandbox is full of crap, doesn't mean you throw your crap in my sandbox.
5)Is making 30 million isk and hour if your lucky. Is that REALLY an ISK faucet? What about the massive wealth massive alliances have gathered? Should us Hi sec citizens demand it should redistributed?
6)Just stop, these threads are getting so old. Its becoming a copy pasta now. "Nerf Hi sec"
Vote for me in the next CSM Elections. I will fight for the interest of all Hi-sec dwellers. No longer will you be cast aside and disparaged.-á |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
784
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 09:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:So, Null Sec's a ghetto. The facilities there are run down, its run by anarchic gangs, and everyone there is poor. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYEEDT16ra56NHD7fNKXcYKIo0POKBHOxXANZvIjDvOvC3bFCSpFWfOCRgewSo, instead of proclaiming 'nurf highsec. nurf nurf nurf nuurf.' Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? Instead of making it less profitable to live somewhere, why not make other places better to live? If the crappiest parts of Nullsec are as profitable as Highsec, then things will get better. Make the zones that are better then other places in Nullsec, buff those accordingly. Low sec? I mean, ****, I wish I knew how to posit an idea to fix that place. Before anyone asks, yes, I was in Nullsec, where Cascade Imminent was. But I saw the writing on the wall and gtfo'd.
one question , where do you get your information from obvious you are playing a different game the amount of money you make depends on how much effort you put in and in null sec you need to put in more effort and need to cooperate, but the rewards are great , ' Working together 'something people seems to ignore in HS
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Pretty GuyYeah
47
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 10:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Andski wrote:Because it's a stupid "everybody wins" approach and CCP needs to stop with this welfare nonsense?
This is the typical response you will get. It is goons like this, thing/tool, here that wants to nerf high sec, why? So they may gank miners.
Sole reason. Notice how it is the PvPers who suggest that high sec should be nerfed so that miners have to enter low and null sec. We all know it's a terrible idea, but they are too selffish to see it. They just want to kill some ships without weapon modules. Post with your main.
A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute. |
Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
183
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 10:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
This argument is so tired and lame, but because my side can form coherent arguments, sometimes fantastically destructive and silencing arguments that the opposition can, at best, ignore, is why hi-sec apologists always sound ******** to my ears.
Sorry about your terrible play style and/or possibly mental defficiencies.
Well thanks for reading, God willing you empire-dwelling people get popped by miniluv now and then to remind you that you're an impotent wretch in a game that's made for people like us.
Well, it's 4:30am here, so good night, and try not to haul PLEX in freighters noobs peace. |
Mr Pragmatic
185
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 10:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:This argument is so tired and lame, but because my side can form coherent arguments, sometimes fantastically destructive and silencing arguments that the opposition can, at best, ignore, is why hi-sec apologists always sound ******** to my ears.
Sorry about your terrible play style and/or possibly mental defficiencies.
Well thanks for reading, God willing you empire-dwelling people get popped by miniluv now and then to remind you that you're an impotent wretch in a game that's made for people like us.
Well, it's 4:30am here, so good night, and try not to haul PLEX in freighters noobs peace.
u mad?
Vote for me in the next CSM Elections. I will fight for the interest of all Hi-sec dwellers. No longer will you be cast aside and disparaged.-á |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 11:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Andski wrote:maybe if nullsec space was actually worth holding in comparison to getting everything for free in hisec, you'd actually have more than just token resistance to invasions and groups forming up to contest sov space, not just moons??? and maybe if the sov system wasn't a giant joke people would actually, you know, consider the idea of taking somebody's space from underneath them, assuming that the space was worth holding in comparison to literally being given everything you can possibly want in the safety of highsec with zero effort Isn't this sums up entire premise of the thread nicely?.. |
Captain Death1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 11:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
they are right we are playing a diff game one that they are not part of anymore the null sec player
might as well get use to it are lose subs will not give even one inch |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2312
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:This argument is so tired and lame, but because my side can form coherent arguments, sometimes fantastically destructive and silencing arguments that the opposition can, at best, ignore, is why hi-sec apologists always sound ******** to my ears.
Sorry about your terrible play style and/or possibly mental defficiencies.
Well thanks for reading, God willing you empire-dwelling people get popped by miniluv now and then to remind you that you're an impotent wretch in a game that's made for people like us.
Well, it's 4:30am here, so good night, and try not to haul PLEX in freighters noobs peace.
With this elitist jerk attitude you are going to win all sorts of support! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? A lot of people have been wondering the same thing. Risk vs. reward and all. It's a mystery
It is better.
Unless all you're counting is the good old isk/hour.
The reward in null is the exercise of power over other players. The complaint is that there are players over whom there is no exercise of power.
To pervert the words of some old Prussian dude: forum whining is an extension of PvP by other means.
|
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
663
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:If 71% of the populace thinks Nullsec is a crappy place to go, then something's wrong. Good thing that's not the case then, isn't it?
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
765
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Gotta love the high sec labor union.
"We demand fair and equal pay!"
"**** you we're not working for it!" |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
663
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Allow system to system warp "Star Trek style" and get rid of local and nullsec can get all of the targets that it wants.
They do want targets, right? I mean, I see a lot of complaining about a lack of target and phat loots, plus raging over "AFK cloakers" and why they can't farm when one is present. They say they go out to null because they are not PVP-averse carebears like people in high sec. Surely they will embrace my idea. So.......
let me get this right...
You want to create a volume of space 10,000 times larger (or more) where a ship might land than the current mechanics and you think it will result in *more* targets? That's not even logical or well thought out. As a matter of fact, it's pretty pitiful, tbqh... There is local intel because of Gates. Gates read who goes through them.
Be pretty stupid if they didn't use that mechanic.
:psyduck:
I'm a wormholer, not nullsec'er.
Wormholes are unique because of no local and WH mechanics.
Leave Wormholes alone and keep your grubby mitts off our mechanics.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
436
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 12:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
power creep, inflation, take yoru pick. |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
290
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
I live in null sec and the only reason im poor is that i keep spending it. - Nulla Curas |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
663
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Xessej wrote:Only when this stuff is done can any change to risk v reward hope to draw players out to 0.0 space. So the anomaly buff didn't result in people moving to null?
And the nerf didn't result in people moving back to hi-sec?
Wow, news to me.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5502
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:The reason for the discussion of nerfing highsec is that highsec is so good, that a balanced buff to nullsec would be so huge it would threaten to blow up the economy.
Can't just increase rat bounties without causing inflation
Can't throw super-ore in there without screwing up that market the way drone alloys did
Can't drop more top shelf rat loot without devaluing it
etc
None of those things are being suggested to make nullsec better. it's already a fine place to smoosh red pluses, there's ore all over the place, and rat loot isn't that much in demand. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
I haven't posted on this forum in over a year, but lately I've been returning to it to try to keep up with what's going on in the game. This thread prompted me to make a post, but I realized after clicking the "POST"-button why I haven't posted on the forum in over a year: Because the new forum is crap. It ate my post. The old one did it as well, so you'd think that this was a point that would be addressed in making a new forum. But no. Certain Crazy People seem incapable of learning.
But enough about the same old complaints, and let's focus on the same old complaints:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:How to make adjustments to null and highsec at the same time, the right way:
Boil the frog slowly.
If you just release a patch that majorly nerfs highsec and causes null to sprout isk fountains (presumably to encourage people to move to nullsec,) you risk the empire-bound majority mass-quitting in carebear outrage.
So don't do that. Instead, just quietly sneak small changes into Eve's patches. Maybe one patch decreases highsec asteroid yield by 2% and boosts nullsec roids by 2%. Maybe the next patch moves 5% of the veldspar in highsec to null. Make the changes gradual, and carebears won't notice because they're morons. Patch after patch, the value of highsec is nibbled away, while the reasons for moving to null keep growing.
I agree with you completely right up until the end. Ignoring the elitist comment, I'll say this: While highsec has been in a slow decline for the past 2-3 years, nullsec hasn't changed at all in the 5 years since I started playing. The stuff has moved around a bit, but it's all the same. It has NOT improved in any way, and no new reasons have magically appeared to live there instead of elsewhere in EvE. |
Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:And there's the problem: The very nature of nullsec rewards the biggest jerks. The only way to become King of the Jerks is the be the biggest jerk in the kingdom. Even if he wanted to change things he couldn't, because the moment he stopped being the Biggest Jerk then he'd get shot in the back and replaced by someone who was. It can''t be changed... but it's not like they'd even want to.
But it can. It just takes Certain Crazy People to realize that they are the biggest jerks. They are in control. But the other jerks are meta-gaming like there's no tomorrow, which is why there has been next to no change in nullsec. They want to keep things as they are. That has to change, they have to be shut out, to the point that people will be fired, and not shot.
Quote:The other thing that nullbears like to forget is this: Not everyone in EvE is a triple-account no-lifer who lives for e-peen enlargement by bullying others. Y'know some of us have jobs and families and stuff and we really have no desire to get dragged into all the tedious political drama of nullsec. We like to be able to play the game casually and without having to look over our shoulders every two seconds. We play the game for our enjoyment, not theirs - and I believe that is what really makes them sick to their stomachs. Every moment of their EvE life is so totally controlled and anxiety driven that seeing people over in hisec actually having fun - and worse, having fun in a way that isn't exactly like themselves - just offends them on some deep, personal level.
Picture this: You wake up in the morning and go to your job, where you're confined to a restrictive environment where your input is ignored and only your output is appreciated. Your pointy-haired boss makes things hard for you, your co-workers are looking for opportunities to stab you in the back, while competitors are looking to stab you in the face. And if you fail to comply, you're fired. It's exhausting. So you come home, looking for an escape from all of that, and log into EvE Online... where you're doing the exact same thing, in the exact same environment?
For many players, living in null-sec is not only a chore, it's also a pyramid scam or a Ponzi scheme to boot. And the real reason that the big alliances are lobbying for changes to highsec is not because of ego or e-peen: It's because the top cats of the alliances are actually making a living being there. I'm talking Real Money, not ISK. So I understand perfectly that they don't want to rock their own boat, even if it makes every other player in EvE suffer.
Quote:And nullbears, you can't win this one. Sure, you control all the CSM seats. You can use that power to nerf hisec until there is no one left playing there at all. And you'll know what will happen then? The carebears won't come join you and your obsessive lifestyle. We'll just quit. Find other games, or, I dunno, spend more time gardening or something.
Sadly this is true. |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:This argument is so tired and lame, but because my side can form coherent arguments, sometimes fantastically destructive and silencing arguments that the opposition can, at best, ignore, is why hi-sec apologists always sound ******** to my ears.
Sorry about your terrible play style and/or possibly mental defficiencies.
Well thanks for reading, God willing you empire-dwelling people get popped by miniluv now and then to remind you that you're an impotent wretch in a game that's made for people like us.
Well, it's 4:30am here, so good night, and try not to haul PLEX in freighters noobs peace.
thats most elitist piece of sjit i ve ever read in all gaming forums i ve ever been to in about 6 years
+1 to you good sir,would read again |
RomeStar
Astra Research
60
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 13:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:How to make adjustments to null and highsec at the same time, the right way:
Boil the frog slowly.
If you just release a patch that majorly nerfs highsec and causes null to sprout isk fountains (presumably to encourage people to move to nullsec,) you risk the empire-bound majority mass-quitting in carebear outrage.
So don't do that. Instead, just quietly sneak small changes into Eve's patches. Maybe one patch decreases highsec asteroid yield by 2% and boosts nullsec roids by 2%. Maybe the next patch moves 5% of the veldspar in highsec to null. Make the changes gradual, and carebears won't notice because they're morons. Patch after patch, the value of highsec is nibbled away, while the reasons for moving to null keep growing.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
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