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Aestivalis Saidrian SplitPush Mercantiles 34	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:33:00 - [1] - Quote So, Null Sec's a ghetto. The facilities there are run down, its run by anarchic gangs, and everyone there is poor. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYEEDT16ra56NHD7fNKXcYKIo0POKBHOxXANZvIjDvOvC3bFCSpFWfOCRgew So, instead of proclaiming 'nurf highsec. nurf nurf nurf nuurf.' Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? Instead of making it less profitable to live somewhere, why not make other places better to live? If the crappiest parts of Nullsec are as profitable as Highsec, then things will get better. Make the zones that are better then other places in Nullsec, buff those accordingly. Low sec? I mean, ****, I wish I knew how to posit an idea to fix that place. Before anyone asks, yes, I was in Nullsec, where Cascade Imminent was. But I saw the writing on the wall and gtfo'd.
iskflakes Magnets Inc. 153	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:36:00 - [2] - Quote This is very true. Track your wealth with EVEStats - https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5790	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:38:00 - [3] - Quote Because it's a stupid "everybody wins" approach and CCP needs to stop with this welfare nonsense? ~a proud belligerent undesirable~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management
Aestivalis Saidrian SplitPush Mercantiles 34	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:39:00 - [4] - Quote Why? Outside of Delve, Nullsec's generally a ** place to live. I was there. I was like "Seriously? ** this place. Its not worth attempting to hold Sov. Or do anything." If 71% of the populace thinks Nullsec is a crappy place to go, then something's wrong.
No More Heroes GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1855	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:40:00 - [5] - Quote Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? A lot of people have been wondering the same thing. Risk vs. reward and all. It's a mystery .
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:42:00 - [6] - Quote The reason for the discussion of nerfing highsec is that highsec is so good, that a balanced buff to nullsec would be so huge it would threaten to blow up the economy. Can't just increase rat bounties without causing inflation Can't throw super-ore in there without screwing up that market the way drone alloys did Can't drop more top shelf rat loot without devaluing it etc
Aestivalis Saidrian SplitPush Mercantiles 34	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:48:00 - [7] - Quote But on the other hand, if you nerf Highsec, you have the very real possibility of losing money, which in turns screws errybody. The economy's already based heavily in Highsec. To my knowledge, most Sov holders important guns, beans and bullets from Highsec. To that end, if its easier to make liquid cash in Nullsec, you could increase the number of ships, etc. bought.
Kehro Urgus Ab Obice Saevior 567	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:49:00 - [8] - Quote Let them eat cake. Nibiru approaches... so give me all your stuff.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1426	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:50:00 - [9] - Quote Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: its run by anarchic gangs. The People's Republic of Deklein is an honourable space communism. It's about time CCP stops catering to the lazy players with this sense of entitlement for fear of losing money. These aren't the people making the game better, these are the people wanting you to turn EVE in to a game that is like most other MMO's.
Imports Plus Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lusts 144	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:52:00 - [10] - Quote Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: But on the other hand, if you nerf Highsec, you have the very real possibility of losing money, which in turns screws errybody. The economy's already based heavily in Highsec. To my knowledge, most Sov holders important guns, beans and bullets from Highsec. To that end, if its easier to make liquid cash in Nullsec, you could increase the number of ships, etc. bought. I am absolutely positive that all the "I'm quitting and taking my 10 miner accounts if you nerf me" guys will still be playing long after any balancing passes. It's more apathy and lack of a coherent vision for 0.0 than anything.
EVIL SQUISHY Hedion University Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:05:00 - [11] - Quote I do it fo da hood erryday.... erry...day dawg. Shout out to my neeuz in Fountain, dem TEST boyz, ya dig Shout out to my neeuz in Deklein, DIRTY DEK, dawg, ,yeeyuh..... erryday. Fo da hood.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1068	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:07:00 - [12] - Quote Imports Plus wrote: Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: But on the other hand, if you nerf Highsec, you have the very real possibility of losing money, which in turns screws errybody. The economy's already based heavily in Highsec. To my knowledge, most Sov holders important guns, beans and bullets from Highsec. To that end, if its easier to make liquid cash in Nullsec, you could increase the number of ships, etc. bought. I am absolutely positive that all the "I'm quitting and taking my 10 miner accounts if you nerf me" guys will still be playing long after any balancing passes. It's more apathy and lack of a coherent vision for 0.0 than anything. I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club 696	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:17:00 - [13] - Quote How to make adjustments to null and highsec at the same time, the right way: Boil the frog slowly. If you just release a patch that majorly nerfs highsec and causes null to sprout isk fountains (presumably to encourage people to move to nullsec,) you risk the empire-bound majority mass-quitting in carebear outrage. So don't do that. Instead, just quietly sneak small changes into Eve's patches. Maybe one patch decreases highsec asteroid yield by 2% and boosts nullsec roids by 2%. Maybe the next patch moves 5% of the veldspar in highsec to null. Make the changes gradual, and carebears won't notice because they're morons. Patch after patch, the value of highsec is nibbled away, while the reasons for moving to null keep growing.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 667	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:18:00 - [14] - Quote Andski wrote: Because it's a stupid "everybody wins" approach and CCP needs to stop with this welfare nonsense? Amen. And here we go with this nonsense again. Can you people really not remember how it was when you could militarily upgrade every system the same as every other AND Titan/Scimitar combos made 3-500 mil an hour? Not that null can't use some industry fixes, but the problem now is High Sec isk making being to much and too easy, nothing else.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1938	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:36:00 - [15] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing. Eh wouldn't really mind it that bad. If it's worth it or not is the more important issue... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
TharOkha 0asis Group 206	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:40:00 - [16] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: Can't just increase rat bounties without causing inflation Replace bounties with LPs (all rats... hi/low/null). => Huge LP rewards from low/null rats Quote: Can't throw super-ore in there without screwing up that market the way drone alloys did I agree - remove any loot from hisec rats, so they couldnt be reprocessed. Quote: Can't drop more top shelf rat loot without devaluing it It doesnt need to.... faction spawns are quite frequent. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:43:00 - [17] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: SmilingVagrant wrote: I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing. Eh wouldn't really mind it that bad. If it's worth it or not is the more important issue... It's okay, if their isn't anything better to do, and you can do it mostly afk, while you watch a movie or listen to a podcast.
Nylith Empyreal Crowbar Industries. Rebel Alliance of New Eden 194	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:43:00 - [18] - Quote Who is west / east side? "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Frostys Virpio Caldari Provisions Caldari State 112	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:47:00 - [19] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: Imports Plus wrote: Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: But on the other hand, if you nerf Highsec, you have the very real possibility of losing money, which in turns screws errybody. The economy's already based heavily in Highsec. To my knowledge, most Sov holders important guns, beans and bullets from Highsec. To that end, if its easier to make liquid cash in Nullsec, you could increase the number of ships, etc. bought. I am absolutely positive that all the "I'm quitting and taking my 10 miner accounts if you nerf me" guys will still be playing long after any balancing passes. It's more apathy and lack of a coherent vision for 0.0 than anything. I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing. Mining is not enjoyable but it's a pretty safe income. I do some because I know I can't really mess it up like my trade orders when I always mix fees and taxes numbers killing most of my profits anyway.
Vallista ICOI Research Space Mongolians 0	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:55:00 - [20] - Quote I have to wonder, how many of you folks who don't understand the monotony of mining, missioning or whatever and live for pvp have shot a pos?
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 1168	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:01:00 - [21] - Quote Andski wrote: Because it's a stupid "everybody wins" approach and CCP needs to stop with this welfare nonsense? I agree with this post. If there aren't hills to climb there aren't things to fight over (also why I was against the tech nerf). The balancing (buffing/nerfing) needs to come with game mechanics which aren't band-aid's and instead forward thinking game design that isn't short sighted. I want null sec fixed badly where the pilot has a reason to be there. However, if there aren't things in nullsec which are exclusive to the space, finding alliances who want to control it will become an issue. Sure, buff null sec, but do it in a way that isn't what gets people out here for tomorrow, instead what keeps them there for the next 10 years. This is accomplished by fixing the manufacturing process which Tech 2 is based on, not by alchemy. By adjusting the manufacturing process, you create multiple hills to climb. You further keep in line with the sandbox motif by allowing minerals consumed to define what the valuable resources are and where we wage war. The way it SHOULD be: R64+2xR32 = elevated reaction for T2 by race. Each race uses only regionally specific materials in that, each race has it's own process and the pirates who control that space be it, Angel, Serpentis, Sansha or Gurista space holds the specific moon minerals to manage the racial T2 ships and weapon system reactions. Dual Pane idea: Click! CCP Please Implement
No More Heroes GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1855	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:06:00 - [22] - Quote Vallista wrote: I have to wonder, how many of you folks who don't understand the monotony of mining, missioning or whatever and live for pvp have shot a pos? I have shot dozens and dozens of pos, the difference between that and missioning and mining is that usually we have intel of a hostile fleet inbound to try and poop in our cheerios, or you're hoping that the lone hostile in local lights a cyno and drops a fleet on your head. The anticipation/hope of pvp is the difference. I'm sure theres not too many miners out there watching their lasers cycle and thinking "Boy I hope someone tries to gank me." They're probably not even at the keyboard or are tabbed out doing something else. .
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:06:00 - [23] - Quote TharOkha wrote: Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: Can't just increase rat bounties without causing inflation Replace bounties with LPs (all rats... hi/low/null). => Huge LP rewards from low/null rats Quote: Can't throw super-ore in there without screwing up that market the way drone alloys did I agree - remove any loot from hisec rats, so they couldnt be reprocessed. Quote: Can't drop more top shelf rat loot without devaluing it It doesnt need to.... faction spawns are quite frequent. Oh, it will devalue it. Go check the price history on Rattlesnakes. Especially after the Drone Damage Amp was introduced, but before the Retribution rat AI changes targeting drones were announced. It is the cheapest pirate BS in the game, and it isn't because it is a bad ship. One of the best subcap shield tanks and the afk abilities and damage type selection of the drones should have made it the most in demand mission/ratting ships in the game. And it was in demand. In Jita, it sold as often as the Vinidicator and better than the Nightmare or Bhaalgorn. Only the Machariel beats it out in sales volume. But the Rattlesnake sells for about half the price of those other pirate battleships. And the reason is because the people living out in Guristas space produce tons of Rattlesnake BPCs and drive down the price by producing more than the demand. Even before demand was tamped down with a drone hating rat AI. LP store stuff isn't immune to this either. One just has to look back on the market data during the last big buff to Faction Warfare. Implants, datacores, faction ammo/mods/ships for the winning factions all came down in price. So an LP or loot drop buff that looks like a 50% increase at first, can become much lower later if the supply outstrips demand. One idea I've heard of that might work like this without flooding the market is to have sov nullsec holders be able to "invite" mission agents to live in their stations from any faction with decent standings. That way, they could buy enough variety of LP store items and avoid flooding the market with just the worthwhile items of a single faction.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1938	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:09:00 - [24] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: Go check the price history on Rattlesnakes. Especially after the Drone Damage Amp was introduced, but before the Retribution rat AI changes targeting drones were announced. It is the cheapest pirate BS in the game, and it isn't because it is a bad ship. One of the best subcap shield tanks and the afk abilities and damage type selection of the drones should have made it the most in demand mission/ratting ships in the game. And it was in demand. In Jita, it sold as often as the Vinidicator and better than the Nightmare or Bhaalgorn. Only the Machariel beats it out in sales volume. But the Rattlesnake sells for about half the price of those other pirate battleships. And the reason is because the people living out in Guristas space produce tons of Rattlesnake BPCs and drive down the price by producing more than the demand. Even before demand was tamped down with a drone hating rat AI. Yeah I got escalations and well... it's interesting how often Rattlesnake blueprints drop... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1938	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:14:00 - [25] - Quote No More Heroes wrote: Vallista wrote: I have to wonder, how many of you folks who don't understand the monotony of mining, missioning or whatever and live for pvp have shot a pos? I have shot dozens and dozens of pos, the difference between that and missioning and mining is that usually we have intel of a hostile fleet inbound to try and poop in our cheerios, or you're hoping that the lone hostile in local lights a cyno and drops a fleet on your head. The anticipation/hope of pvp is the difference. I'm sure theres not too many miners out there watching their lasers cycle and thinking "Boy I hope someone tries to gank me." They're probably not even at the keyboard or are tabbed out doing something else. It's great when you see that cyno. And then one of the drakes in your fleet also drops a cyno. And then suddenly blobs from both sides just start bridging in at 0. Chaos. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Frostys Virpio Caldari Provisions Caldari State 113	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:16:00 - [26] - Quote No More Heroes wrote: The anticipation/hope of pvp is the difference. I'm sure theres not too many miners out there watching their lasers cycle and thinking "Boy I hope someone tries to gank me." They're probably not even at the keyboard or are tabbed out doing something else. Guilty as charged and any barge/exhumer user not doing this are either running more than one thus having to target new roids/move cargo more often or simply have no life and can't find something better to do. FFS it's still over 2 min with orca boost IIRC.
Frostys Virpio Caldari Provisions Caldari State 113	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:17:00 - [27] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: No More Heroes wrote: Vallista wrote: I have to wonder, how many of you folks who don't understand the monotony of mining, missioning or whatever and live for pvp have shot a pos? I have shot dozens and dozens of pos, the difference between that and missioning and mining is that usually we have intel of a hostile fleet inbound to try and poop in our cheerios, or you're hoping that the lone hostile in local lights a cyno and drops a fleet on your head. The anticipation/hope of pvp is the difference. I'm sure theres not too many miners out there watching their lasers cycle and thinking "Boy I hope someone tries to gank me." They're probably not even at the keyboard or are tabbed out doing something else. It's great when you see that cyno. And then one of the drakes in your fleet also drops a cyno. And then suddenly blobs from both sides just start bridging in at 0. Chaos. I need to see stuff like that...
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1966	Posted - 2012.12.17 06:19:00 - [28] - Quote Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: So, Null Sec's a ghetto. The facilities there are run down, its run by anarchic gangs, and everyone there is poor. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYEEDT16ra56NHD7fNKXcYKIo0POKBHOxXANZvIjDvOvC3bFCSpFWfOCRgew So, instead of proclaiming 'nurf highsec. nurf nurf nurf nuurf.' Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? Instead of making it less profitable to live somewhere, why not make other places better to live? If the crappiest parts of Nullsec are as profitable as Highsec, then things will get better. Make the zones that are better then other places in Nullsec, buff those accordingly. Low sec? I mean, ****, I wish I knew how to posit an idea to fix that place. Before anyone asks, yes, I was in Nullsec, where Cascade Imminent was. But I saw the writing on the wall and gtfo'd. Allow system to system warp "Star Trek style" and get rid of local and nullsec can get all of the targets that it wants. They do want targets, right? I mean, I see a lot of complaining about a lack of target and phat loots, plus raging over "AFK cloakers" and why they can't farm when one is present. They say they go out to null because they are not PVP-averse carebears like people in high sec. Surely they will embrace my idea.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5793	Posted - 2012.12.17 07:54:00 - [29] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Allow system to system warp "Star Trek style" and get rid of local and nullsec can get all of the targets that it wants. They do want targets, right? I mean, I see a lot of complaining about a lack of target and phat loots, plus raging over "AFK cloakers" and why they can't farm when one is present. They say they go out to null because they are not PVP-averse carebears like people in high sec. Surely they will embrace my idea. sure, all of the targets will move to highsec to make 85% the income they'd make in nullsec with zero risk because if you think that people are willing to be fish in a barrel, I can't help you ~a proud belligerent undesirable~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5793	Posted - 2012.12.17 07:55:00 - [30] - Quote "I'm a highsec mission runner in a personal one-man tax dodging corp. Let me tell you how much I hate risk averse players" ~a proud belligerent undesirable~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management

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