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Do MMOs need top stop trying to appeal to casuals?

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Sentamon 378	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:19:00 - [1] - Quote Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Marius Deterium Crush Kill Destroy 0	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:25:00 - [2] - Quote Purely a business decision based on paying players demographics. If it was my game, and 90% were casuals, I'd do what would keep them flowing. Easy decision if you know your customer base well. Industry wide, I wonder if the 10% number holds up.
Pohbis 126	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:29:00 - [3] - Quote Sentamon wrote: Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players Pohbis' rule: The other 90% are spend by players who would never play your game if it wasn't for the casuals populating it.
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 362	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 3172	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:45:00 - [5] - Quote Ocih wrote: 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects. New gamers are created constantly, gamers play many games and people turn from casuals to proper gamers all the time. It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 673	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:45:00 - [6] - Quote Ground floor in a thread where high sec casuals (who love to throw around the erroneous and misunderstood "77% of people live in high sec!!!!" thing around) will claim up and down that they, not the hard core neckbeards who play games more consistently, are the real story in mmo gaming, despite obvious evidence to the contrary. OMG whatever will ccp do if they nerf high sec and lose 10% of their subs as the "77%" ragequit???? Now, has anyone seen my razor? This neckbeard is stylish but it's starting to itch, must be all the humidity in my mothers basement.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 673	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:48:00 - [7] - Quote Destination SkillQueue wrote: Ocih wrote: 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects. New gamers are created constantly and turn from casula to proper gamers. Proper Gamers? just because they play one hour every 10 years and expect the same attention from developers as people who play ever day doesn't make them improper. You're racist against casuals! Quote: It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free. You can make as many casual and single player games as you like, they won't play them because they doesn't satisfy their need to take a game specifically meant for social, more hardcore players and bend it to their will to become a single player game.
baltec1 Bat Country 3339	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:49:00 - [8] - Quote I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual.
Dave stark 819	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:50:00 - [9] - Quote Marius Deterium wrote: Purely a business decision based on paying players demographics. If it was my game, and 90% were casuals, I'd do what would keep them flowing. Easy decision if you know your customer base well. Industry wide, I wonder if the 10% number holds up. that's exactly what wow does, and it gets worse and worse every time they release an update. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Simetraz State War Academy Caldari State 536	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:51:00 - [10] - Quote You need to reread the article. They are talking about casual games, not casual gaming. There is a difference. They are talking about a games longevity based on it replayability and a companies ability to continue to make money off of it. Examples are councel games or games like Crysis. Although it does have merit in the MMO world there is a difference and the business model is also different, EVERYBODY KNOWS
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 673	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:52:00 - [11] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual. Omg dude, you must play 20 hours per week or be cast out. REAL men play EVE all the time, even at work, and even when they have white girl with shades on Avatars.... tries to hide white girl avatar
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1941	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:56:00 - [12] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: baltec1 wrote: I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual. Omg dude, you must play 20 hours per week or be cast out. REAL men play EVE all the time, even at work, and even when they have white girl with shades on Avatars.... tries to hide white girl avatar I log in when there's timers, that will have to be enough. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 363	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:01:00 - [13] - Quote Destination SkillQueue wrote: Ocih wrote: 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects. New gamers are created constantly, gamers play many games and people turn from casuals to proper gamers all the time. It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free. MMO games are not "just another game". Getting gamers is one thing. Getting MMO gamers is another basket of bees all together.
Nytak Ivar School of Galactic Brotherhood 4	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:01:00 - [14] - Quote I'm a casual gamer.. I wear a t-shirt, boxers, and slippers and keep my feet propped up on my desk while I play and sip my adult beverage that may or may not include an umbrella (keeps any rainwater from diluting the alcohol)... Unlike those non casual gamers who need blood pressure medication.. Oh wait, did I get that right or did I miss something?
Jame Jarl Retief Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 662	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:53:00 - [15] - Quote Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5510	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:07:00 - [16] - Quote Ocih wrote: 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects. (Citation needed) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5510	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:08:00 - [17] - Quote Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em. There are no hard core WoW players True story (I read it on an EVE forum) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1942	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:11:00 - [18] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ocih wrote: 10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people. All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects. (Citation needed) I would like to see that citation as well. Interesting statistics you have there. Malcanis wrote: Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em. There are no hard core WoW players True story (I read it on an EVE forum) What happens to all the other MMOs? Oh right, they tend to die. EVE is dying. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Lipbite Express Hauler 288	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:19:00 - [19] - Quote TL;DR for the article: gamblers are x20 more profitable than any other type of gamers. Also "casual games" in the article are Farmville and other social networks and Flash-based nonsense. Question should be - why even bother with games when online casino is x100 easier to create and may bring insane income?
Alara IonStorm 3881	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:22:00 - [20] - Quote Malcanis wrote: There are no hard core WoW players True story (I read it on an EVE forum) No but most of WoW's content is quick access. Hard core players rarely drop off 40 suitcases at the newbie hotel and get to work, they are created. EVE has if this is still accurate a very high attrition rate. Personally I think the way to go about that is to buff Newbie Rewards, start them off with a few hundred K and buff low end bounties and mission rewards. On top of that create a CCP reference guide, you have seen Newbie Ships, judging by their fittings they have no idea how to fit them. A basic tanking and weapons instruction manual that doesn't get to far into specifics and teaches minimum knowledge would be nice. A sort of reference more in depth then the tutorial. Besides that they should find ways to lessen the perceived barrier between safe and unsafe space, make Lo-Sec more a place you go with a few friends with friends then a Berlin Wall for some new players. Maybe encourage early grouping through group mechanic missions that require 4-5 players in T1 Frigates and later Cruisers before Incursions. Okay rewards and a Public channel in the system and everything. Lots of great idea's, very few people started out as hard core.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1943	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:24:00 - [21] - Quote Lipbite wrote: Question should be - why even bother with games when online casino is x100 easier to create and may bring insane income? Maybe a WiStation casino would do it. And you'd want a monocle as well, perhaps. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Rain6637 Team Evil 13	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:38:00 - [22] - Quote skill queue is casual.
Meryl SinGarda Daisy Cutter's The Irukandji 690	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:40:00 - [23] - Quote I feel like a lot of gamers are living in some kind of warped bubble where the real world doesn't mean anything, so the only fitting description for a person that wags a finger at people who don't live and breathe a computer screen, is this: http://filthycasuals.com/filthy_casuals.jpg CEO of B.U.T.T.
Eurydia Vespasian Nova Insula Mining and Industrial legion of extraordinary Idi0ts 44	Posted - 2012.12.17 23:15:00 - [24] - Quote idk. pretty much all i've read about eve recently seems to think that it's thriving...even as one of the few subscription based games left on the market.
Nexus Day Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau 169	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:03:00 - [25] - Quote Article title that misquotes leads to misguided thread. Story at 11! Only 10% of the $50 billion came from casual CONTENT. RIF!
Katran Luftschreck Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 272	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:09:00 - [26] - Quote Sentamon wrote: Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals. Tell it to Zynga. Oh, and your numbers are off. I know which article you're quoting from, but so what? Anyone can cherry pick their articles. EvE Forum Bingo
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 2251	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:20:00 - [27] - Quote Sentamon wrote: Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players Where "casual" means "casual games", that is, games that contain about 9 hours of content and are sold for an up-front price. The other part of the market these guys are talking about is "free to play" games like Cow Clicker and Farmville. How people get confused into thinking that "casuals" in this context applies to "people who play a subscription MMO for less than 100 hours a week" is beyond me. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:37:00 - [28] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Sentamon wrote: Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players Where "casual" means "casual games", that is, games that contain about 9 hours of content and are sold for an up-front price. The other part of the market these guys are talking about is "free to play" games like Cow Clicker and Farmville and real-money games (aka online gambling). How people get confused into thinking that "casuals" in this context applies to "people who play a subscription MMO for less than 100 hours a week" is beyond me. The take-home message for me from that article was this: Quote: The following panel talked about stickiness, or game mechanics that keep players playing, and Mark Long, CEO of Meteor Entertainment (creators of Hawken) outlined how Meteor made some key changes to its game. GÇ£In our closed beta exit survey, we saw a lot of players play one session and leave, and this concerned us,GÇ¥ said Long. GÇ£We came up with the idea of what we call Newbie Island; your first five sessions you're only playing new players, so there's a safe place for them to not get their asses handed to them and hopefully get them to come back after that first session.GÇ¥ Long also pointed out a game that does a great job of getting new users into the game. GÇ£CSR Racing, I've never seen onboarding that's so flawless.GÇ¥ I wonder if a LOTRO style introductory system would be of any use in EVE Online? In LOTRO you start a character in a completely separate part of the world, where people who have finished the tutorial cannot go (and people who haven't finished the tutorial cannot leave). It takes about an hour to complete the tutorial, which goes through movement, basic combat, accepting and handing in quests, and then dumps you out into the wider world at the starter village. Regardless, the original article was talking about casual games, not casual gamers. The thing that keeps EVE out of those freemium markets is SP in real time. Most of the old Vets know that SP means nothing in EVE but CCP still cling to a certain amount of income from people who feel the need to pay to skill.
Kalishka Ulsguld Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:41:00 - [29] - Quote Figures say it all, really. 10% casuals, 10% game design towards casuals. Tbh, I hate with a passion, "casual" and "hardcore" gamer funnels. The way I see it, (going by these figures as a basis) 10% of people want a fast draw win. By all means, they should have it. I see no reason why not. However, don't throw the shoe at the maker when the rest of the 90% is tougher the achieve. For me (at least), when games lean towards the 10% of "weekend warriors" so they feel superior, I tend to swtich off. The silly thing is, it take the EXACT same amount of skill and effort to achieve said goals. By all means, people with less time to play will take a little longer. But why should the 90% lean to the wind of the 10%! Tbh, this was unheard of in FFXI. I know the name of the game that begun this horrendous snowball, and so do you. Let's not mention it, but throw fingers in its "honor"
Emiko P'eng 33	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:56:00 - [30] - Quote Well Casual Players or Not! EVE is growing so the Developers are doing something right! Forbes Congratulates EVE Online for growing its subscription base when most other Subscription based games are shrinking! Forbes - In An Age of Free-to-Play, EVE Online Sets Records Oh! For info I am a Casual player so I am one of those 10%

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