Perhaps I have taken Garrison's first post the wrong way.

The way I read it is he was saying that Mining is a style of game play that you can be as dumb as a bot to do and as such should be removed from the game.

If you were refering to removing only bots as such and keeping mining then I apologise Garrison. I would be all for that, because at the end of the day I would love bots to be removed entierly, because they are taking precious ore that I spent my own time trying to mine and I have to compete with them...

There still seem to be a lot of bots out there as well, with the amount of ganks I see and yet the player who got ganked does not respond in anyway when the ganker taunts them in local after.

I would fully support some form of permit system if it meant the end of actual bots in EVE, as long as it isn't game breaking

No need to apologize. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. As Lin stated, code-compliant human miners are fine with me, and they are set blue with the New Order upon purchase of a mining permit. What I dislike are straight up bots and folks who think this game is a mining simulator and who feel they should be immune to non consensual interaction. I find these types of players detestable and an affront to everything that makes Eve great.

I don't in any way want mining removed from the game. What I actually would like to see is more code compliant good citizens mining attentively and judiciously, and less whiny entitled muppets who spout off about the EULA every time you so much as look at them. Also dead bots, lots and lots of dead bots.

Regards,

Garrison Woods
Knight of the New Order of Hi-Sec

Oh, I get it...I don't get a snappy comeback because I use my alt to AFK mine in NULLSEC, and you guys are too afraid to go there? AmIrite?

No need to apologize. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. As Lin stated, code-compliant human miners are fine with me, and they are set blue with the New Order upon purchase of a mining permit. What I dislike are straight up bots and folks who think this game is a mining simulator and who feel they should be immune to non consensual interaction. I find these types of players detestable and an affront to everything that makes Eve great.

I don't in any way want mining removed from the game. What I actually would like to see is more code compliant good citizens mining attentively and judiciously, and less whiny entitled muppets who spout off about the EULA every time you so much as look at them. Also dead bots, lots and lots of dead bots.

Regards,

Garrison Woods
Knight of the New Order of Hi-Sec

If you look at who some of the guys doing the ganking are, you'll find a lot of them are no strangers to nullsec, so nope, you're quite wrong.

Turn of auto-repeat?! Do you guys sell bots for EVE or just hate life?

Your sitting there, watching lasers turn as you mine a roid. Oh the occasional rat will come, but you get to see your drones circle & kill it within 10 seconds. Some action right? Super exiting isn't it? It's god dam torture, and unless it was more interactive/ required player input (for the mining itself), people will continue to go afk while mining.

Oh boy.

I really don't understand the hate towards afk miners. Is it because they aren't in low sec so you can shoot them? Is it because you hate to admit that the game needs them?

personally i sit in my hulk with orca support, mining away i have 22k range. I only use t1 strip miners so i don't need to change crystals. So i can jump in to the middle of the belt and clean the whole thing out sometimes i have to move a few ks to get the last few. I just target the next roid and hit it doesn't bother me what it is.

while thats going on, on my secondary monitor I play star wars the old republic on my primary monitor

use t2 strips with crystals.
you've got to tab back to the game to change asteroids, only takes 2 extra clicks to load a different crystal.

Your sitting there, watching lasers turn as you mine a roid. Oh the occasional rat will come, but you get to see your drones circle & kill it within 10 seconds. Some action right? Super exiting isn't it? It's god dam torture, and unless it was more interactive/ required player input (for the mining itself), people will continue to go afk while mining.

Afk mine all you want.

Know this though, if I or one my ilk catch you unawares, we will blow up your barge and squish your pod.

Action/consequence, risk/reward and all that stuff.

Regards,

Garrison Woods
Knight of the New Order of Hi-Sec.

I saw someone in the Help channel today asking if anyone knew of a good "mining timer" a timer he could set to alert him to come back to his computer and move product.

Now thats some engaging PVE right there

I saw someone in the Help channel today asking if anyone knew of a good "mining timer" a timer he could set to alert him to come back to his computer and move product.

Now thats some engaging PVE right there

In essence, they are causing harassment.

So I've been around the Knights of the New Order area for a few days now and I'd like to say the following:

First, I am also opposed to AFK mining. In fact, any AFK activities. Back when Ultima Online came on, I was with a ganking squad that took out AFK skill builders. So I know where the idea is coming from. And if they did nothing but AFK miner harassment, I'd pay them 100m ISK for their work.

However, they do not target AFK miners but require all miners to pay 10m to be left alone. That's extortion and I don't abide by it. They have destroyed many non AFK miners through their exploits.

And there is no fighting them. For the most part, they are on throw away characters. I have only seen two that are over 30 days old. They don't care about their ships and the bounties they produce when killed are pitiful. In essence, they are causing harassment. The fact that most aren't using their main characters to do this lets you know that they also know it is wrong. The game punishes people for such harassment so they're avoiding it with the new characters.

Now many people say 'so what?' Fair enough, the game does have things that can be used to defend against them. Because of their low value ships and tactics, a bit of armoring can protect you from them until Concord arrives. I've seen it happen a few times. But the game doesn't really allow for proper defense against their tactics.

That's why I suggest if you really feel that they're harassing you, send a petition about it - even if you think it won't do anything. One, or even a hundred won't cause them to move but thousands may have them perk up and take notice.

In the end, I like the idea that they started with, but now it's just become a bully group that there is no real way to stop them.

The only problem I see here is the fact that they are recycling characters and not that they are extorting miners.

This part is incorrect. We have permanent dedicated ganking alts. No alt has been biomassed to avoid the consequences of ganking miners. We live with the consequences, adapt to the restrictions of low sec status, and using the game mechanics, we try to achieve our goals the best we can.

Over time we have learned to manipulate (not avoid or escape) but manipulate Concord so that we can gank before they kill us. The discipline required to FC a gank fleet is incredible. Coordinated undocks, cloaky warp ins, rotating belts we hit to manage concord; we actually strive to improve our game through an understanding of how it works and leveraging it in our favor.

EDIT: Just today, we got our first quadruple Retriever kill. A single squad split DPS four ways and we took down 4 Retrievers closely clumped together. It was truly a glorious feat of planning and execution.

This is in stark contrast to the afk miner, whose toolbox only contains one tactic: whine and complain.

The only problem I see here is the fact that they are recycling characters and not that they are extorting miners.

Do not create further threads regarding bumping, they will be treated as spam, and locked.