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What ever happened to Tesselation?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Sentamon 716	Posted - 2013.03.04 00:59:00 - [181] - Quote you know at some point your computer will be worth like $10 and you probably should upgrade ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.04 01:41:00 - [182] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: Very negative response there. First, I only really saw someone having issue with the transition from Mac to PC, and if you ever compared the two you would understand that. Mac is simple and easy to set up and apple handles the upgrades gracefully, where Microsoft hasn't been able to get a thing right in all the time I've handled their operating system and updates. Would have been nice for you to give a little advice instead of treating the previous poster like an idiot. Anyone not familiar with Windows isn't going to be aware of all the disables on Microsoft automated nonsense that you have to do to make your system run the way you want it to. I manage a mixed environment that involves both desktop macs and laptop maps (some bootcamped). I can move desktops across town without issues so I guess that puts me above you in technical capability... I gave a whole block of advice to counter your bad advice on the video card. Go back and reread if you missed it. Quote: First, disable updates. Allow download, but not install. Windows will drop you out of whatever you are doing, even if it corrupts an install or costs you hours of unsaved data. Your best bet is to set everything to manual as you come across it. Virus scans do not have to be slow on an HDD. Mine take less than 5 minutes and I have no issue with running other programs at the same time. Do not use Norton. It is absolutely the biggest resource hog of all AV programs I have ever seen and it corrupt your data and destroys your Windows kernel over time as far as I can tell. Factually incorrect as even with auto-install enabled windows 7 will not drop out of whatever you're doing. Now if your system is poorly configured then a pop up will appear asking for a reboot. I do prefer to set it to auto download and let me choose when to install. That is solid advice. Norton has been a pile of crap for over a decade now. I've never seen it destroy a windows kernel though and I repair a lot of computers a week. You're probably confusing virus damage with damage done by norton. Not a surprise as norton is pretty terribad at catching viruses. If you can't afford to buy an AV program then AVG free will work fine. small footprint and it's effective at finding stuff. Quote: Get Malwarebytes AM. Simple, easy anti-malware program and reliable. Run it when you need to. Mentioned nonsense about a cheap gpu being perfectly acceptable is nonsense. You can get a very good gpu for much less than suggested, but just tossing any poc in there and replacing it periodically is just a waste of money and will cause you no end of frustration as you deal with all the things it cannot handle. I agree and use malwarebytes in at home and work. "cheap" is completely relative and doesn't automatically mean crap. Your suggestion to blow most of your money on a graphics card is utterly silly. Today's top end GPU can be bought for a fraction of the cost tomorrow. Being slightly behind the curve means you pay a lot less and the FPS difference is minimal. You're much better off getting a very solid backbone of a machine then to blow most of your budget on graphics when that card will lose half it's retail value in 4 months. I have a machine that has had a 5770 for years and there's not a game on the market it can't run well. I always intended to toss another 5770 in there but it never needed it. Quote: A GTX 670 has more than 5 different varieties, (don't care to count), which vary from good to not so good. All have very similar specs however, and the quality is with respect to that product itself. The better of them however, will probably set you for the next 5-7 years at least. Contrary to sometimes popular belief, technology isn't going to suddenly triple in complexity in that time. Almost all graphics cards come in a variety of flavors as the reference board is only a reference and not a requirement. Look up Moore's law for CPUs. GPUs have been outrunning CPUs in that relation so in 7 years triple would be easy. That being said the hardware has basically outran the software for all intents. Quote: Whatever the case with all that, Windows is not 'easy' and Microsoft is a royal pain in the arse. Mac is much simpler, better quality overall than any retail PC. and built as a balanced, compatible piece of hardware.You can't go wrong with it, but it unfortunately doesn't support a lot of software available that you might want to use. Windows 7 is incredibly easy and it's actually more intuitive then OS10.9 in a lot of ways. The quality of a mac is about on par with a HP. They both use cheap taiwanese caps and off the shelf components. The only difference is you're paying more for the Mac and the TPM chip.
Mars Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 1636	Posted - 2013.03.04 02:22:00 - [183] - Quote CCP Mankiller wrote: WinXP is the problem... It just won't die! No worries, Win7 is slated to replace it. ..at least until they come up with something better. ..if they come up with something better. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Stan'din Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.03.04 02:38:00 - [184] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: CCP Mankiller wrote: WinXP is the problem... It just won't die! No worries, Win7 is slated to replace it. ..at least until they come up with something better. ..if they come up with something better. I've been saying for a while that Windows 7 is the new XP. seems to be heading that way
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.04 02:49:00 - [185] - Quote Stan'din wrote: Mars Theran wrote: CCP Mankiller wrote: WinXP is the problem... It just won't die! No worries, Win7 is slated to replace it. ..at least until they come up with something better. ..if they come up with something better. I've been saying for a while that Windows 7 is the new XP. seems to be heading that way Yeah Windows 7 is definitely on it's way to replacing XP. With win 8 being so meh we're looking at another vista situation.
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1021	Posted - 2013.03.04 02:52:00 - [186] - Quote Darenthul wrote: Praytell, what exactly is Tesselation? Tesselation is an Nvidia technology that adds another level of detail to objects....The downside is it's going to require better GPUs from the players. The other downside is you'll need to be zoomed in really close to whatever object you're viewing to see the new detail which of course is exactly what everyone doesn't do which is to say they mostly zoom way out so that groups of ships appear like more or less nothing more than brackets in space. The other other downside is if you have an ATI card you can expect excessive GPU processing for nothing. I've yet to find an upside. But wtf do I know? HTFU!...for the children!
Mars Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 1636	Posted - 2013.03.04 03:06:00 - [187] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: I hate stacked quoting; it's a pyramid quote the minute anyone tries to reply to it. A mixed environment network is not a gaming PC; two different apples, and one has many more of them. My advice on GPUs isn't bad at all. I did state that you can spend much less and get a good gpu. $159 USD will buy a better one than I have now, (marginally), but it is a good 2 generations beyond what I have. and only cost about $100 less than what I paid for mine. Comparatively speaking, my GPU was an upgrade from a GTX 260 which did not support DirectX11, and the 650 ti is actually a step down with respect to its place in the GPU line up, but brings PCIe 3.0 compatibility, (useless to me atm), while improving performance. Spend any less than what is required to get that however, and you'll see some serious drop in performance. Many PC stores sell PCs with min. quality GPUs, and quite often now, with just the integrated graphics on the CPUs, which more than cover most applications. A 670 isn't necessary for EVE, or many other games, but it will outlast the 650 ti in most respects and you can expect it will perform when you need it. It is worth the investment if you plan on doing any gaming on the upper end of the graphics requirements scale. Most MMO's don't have any need for that, if any do. It's counterproductive to having a large user base, as mentioned. I've been watching the GPU market for some time now, and I can honestly say that it has not more than tripled in capability in the last 5-6 years. Some major changes like PCIe 3.0 and DirectX 11 capability aside, the hardware is scaling up in a relatively linear fashion. 3dMark scores and super clocking hardware with LN2 and Liquid Helium might make it seem so, but these set-ups are taking advantage of increases in both CPU and GPU clocks, increases in throughput, and other features of over clocking, in addition to an increase in both the number of CPUs and GPUs. The average user doesn't have any use for that, and very few could afford it anyway. 4xSLI or CrossfireX on LN2 with dual quad or hexacore, or octacore, etc.. is just stacking processing capability. Most of this done on extreme gaming server/workstation-platform-based systems. On the level of the average user, without the benefit of PCIe 3.0, the comparison of a single GTX 260, GTX 460, and GTX 660 isn't going to be that much different in terms of performance afforded. It will be different, but as I said, it is a linear scale and hardware is exceeding software development in most circles, thus the lifetime of these cards generally exceeds that of most systems they are in. My GTX 260 transitioned 3 systems, with replacements of all other hardware in the process. I switched to a 460 because I wanted DirectX 11 support, and I will upgrade to a 600 or something when I feel the need for DirectX11 and PCIe 3.0. That will require the replacement of my motherboard and CPU by default however, so I don't see that happening any time soon. I'm not disagreeing with everything you say of course. I'm just trying to point out that a good GPU is by no means a bad investment if you have a use for it. Most people don't. Win7 does kick you out of games if you have it set up to auto-update. I have had it happen, before turning off that feature when I've forgotten about it. On a clean install from OEM, there is no default set-up; it is configured by the user as the OS is installed as part of the process. The only way of avoiding that is to configure an install, which done over networks is likely the case. For most home users who build their own PCs at any point however, the process is step-by-step. A retail version might be different, but I've never used one. Even in setting up the OS, you have to pick and choose updates or run the risk of having your OS completely scrapped in the process. I have found it is best to leave security updates until last. As for Norton, I've not had many viruses, but I have had my Kernel scrapped on more than a few occasions. This is either due to someone directly hacking my PC and attempting to bypass UAC and AV protocol, or it is a result of the AV. I do know, this does not happen unless an AV is present and running. I'm sure you know your stuff, but one environment does not account for every user. MAC uses Intel Xeon processors btw, and quite often high end ATi or Nvidia GPUs. I'd hardly consider that third rate hardware. Does this look cheap to you? https://www.apple.com/ca/macpro/design.html Check out any server board from Tyan, SunMicro, or any of the various others. Varying degrees of quality aside.. what is it that Russian in Armageddon said? "..all made in Taiwan!" ..anyway, the point is, that if you check out any motherboard, aside from the extreme gamer hardware like EVGAs classified motherboards and various others, most of the parts of of somewhat generic quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Apples hardware. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.04 04:00:00 - [188] - Quote I have experience managing a wide variety of systems and that's the part that matters. I build gaming systems for various clients too but that's not as impressive as managing thousands of computers running linux XP win7 and OSx. You told him to buy a $600 card not a $160 so there's a bit of a difference in those statements. You also said to focus on buying the biggest card out there and then whatever else can fit. That's a terrible idea and it's good to see that you have realized that yourself. I've been building computers for over 20 years now and GPUs have been increasing in power faster then cpus. CPUS themselves have been doubling in power every 2 years on average for the last +30 years. Lets put this to reality. Right now a Radeon HD 7970 3GB is on the high end of graphics right now. Back in late 2007 the high end for about the same price was an 8800 GTS 640mb card. So according to you the 7970 is not at least 3x faster then the 8800 GTS? Do I have to dig up the benchmarks to show you that there's at least 8x difference in performance? When installing Win7 you are presented with the choice of how to handle updates and like I said earlier only user error results in you being kicked out of a game. Set it up properly when you isntall the software and you won't have issues. One of the first things anyone who games should do when they buy an OEM system is to go in and clean out all the junk installed by their pc maker. Most of the OEM systems I've seen include some sort of a configuration option for win7 on first bootup which includes the updates settings. Quote: Even in setting up the OS, you have to pick and choose updates or run the risk of having your OS completely scrapped in the process. I have found it is best to leave security updates until last. That's just complete and utter bullshit. We do regular updates on thousands of computer systems on a monthly basis and we've never had that happen. I do realize that manually updating a lot of those machines is a waste of time but upper management won't allow us to use a more automated system. Quote: As for Norton, I've not had many viruses, but I have had my Kernel scrapped on more than a few occasions. This is either due to someone directly hacking my PC and attempting to bypass UAC and AV protocol, or it is a result of the AV. I do know, this does not happen unless an AV is present and running. Wow that's absolutely amazing. I've only ran into Norton on systems that I repair on the side. So I have a sort of limited experience with the product. I've been computing online since my first system which rocked a 2400 baud modem and I've never had a hacker get that far into my system. My firewall always stops them (hardware based not your typical consumer router). Quote: MAC uses Intel Xeon processors btw, and quite often high end ATi or Nvidia GPUs. I'd hardly consider that third rate hardware. Yes and no. Some of the mac pros and xserves use xeon but that's to be expected. Most Macs use regular intel i3/5/7 CPUs. Doesn't matter what CPU you use when the components in the PSU are tawanese or the components on the mobo use off the shelf components. Nothing fancy and pretty much common for retail based computers. That being said Xeons are just better binned CPUs as they use the same tech as regular consumer level CPUs. You won't notice any performance difference and in some cases you can't even OC them as well due to MOBO restrictions. Quote: anyway, the point is, that if you check out any motherboard, aside from the extreme gamer hardware like EVGAs classified motherboards and various others, most of the parts of of somewhat generic quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Apples hardware. Wrong. All my motherboards/PSUs and such use high quality Japanese capacitors with off the shelf components. That's because I build my own systems so I am able get the quality components I want. Gigabyte Asus Asrock MSI all provide superior component selection. I've also recapped and replaced some FETs in some of my project PSUs for that reason too.
Mars Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 1636	Posted - 2013.03.04 04:02:00 - [189] - Quote [quote=ashley Eoner... You told him to buy a $600 card not a $160 so there's a bit of a difference in those statements...[/quote] you fail at reading. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.04 04:07:00 - [190] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: you fail at reading. My bad it was a $400 card that is fairly poor bang for the buck. You can get a 7950 for 100 bucks cheaper and get like 2 less FPS in most games. EDIT : Do a moderate overclock and the 7950 will outdo the GTX 670 thanks to the faster and larger RAM.

Mars Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 1636	Posted - 2013.03.04 05:25:00 - [191] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Mars Theran wrote: you fail at reading. My bad it was a $400 card that is fairly poor bang for the buck. You can get a 7950 for 100 bucks cheaper and get like 2 less FPS in most games. EDIT : Do a moderate overclock and the 7950 will outdo the GTX 670 thanks to the faster and larger RAM. ..and you'll get better multi-screen performance too. I like EVGA; EVGA makes nVidia GPUs which I also like. I like PC, but I don't think any less of Mac for it. I don't think any less of ATi GPUs either; I just have my preferences. Nothing wrong with the 7950, and you're right, it is ~$100 less right now. Some moderate changes in performance at various levels aside, they actually come close to the same overall performance spec wise. Never tested either though, and I haven't bothered to look up the 3d benchmarking on them. I don't need to. Not because I know everything I need to know, but because I really have no use for the information, and besides, I know it is somewhat flawed in that it is often relying on a multitude of other factors that can change the way the performance scales for each card. If I wanted to break it down a bit, I'll assume by faster you are referring to the Memory bandwidth. 240 GB/s on the 7950 as opposed to 192.26 GB/s on the 670 Other Comparisons: 384 bit GDDR5 on the 7950 as opposed to the 256 bit GDDR5 on the 670. 5GHz (QDR) 5Gbps Memory Clock on the 7950 as opposed to 6GHz (QDR) 6Gbps Memory Clock on the 670 3GB Memory on the 7950 as opposed to 2-4GB Memory on the GTX 670 Reference 670 is 2GB but you can get 4GB on it for not much more money, and with binned chips that have better than average performance. So basically, the 7950 compensates for a slower memory clock with a larger chunk of memory on a 384 bit width bus to increase the memory bandwidth of the card. Having greater than 2GB of momory on the card is fairly non-essential for most people, but can be useful for workstation applications and some very graphics intensive games. Ultimately, it's up to the buyer what they get, but the additional bandwidth is important to a 7950 because of the multi-monitor application which is I think, why AMD chose to go this route. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Tim Sebo State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.03.04 07:23:00 - [192] - Quote Hello, I'm from the internet and I'm an expert. That is all, Tim Sebo
Katran Luftschreck Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 1064	Posted - 2013.03.04 07:53:00 - [193] - Quote The tesselation project in a nutshell. EvE Forum Bingo
Velani Askiras Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.03.04 07:56:00 - [194] - Quote i7 3930k, 4.2 Ghz OC (sixcore) 2 x GTX 680 Asus Rampage IV Extreme Motherboard 32 GB DDR-1600 RAM 256 GB SSD, 3 TB Storage HDD Win7 64bit Prof. I'm playing with 5 accounts on that machine. I'm ready for an DX11 client :P Btw. WinXP finally must die!
Jensaro Koraka Hidden Squid Society 18	Posted - 2013.03.04 08:14:00 - [195] - Quote To the people saying Macs are easier and better quality: Wrong. PC quality is just fine. I very rarely need to replace anything. Want to know every piece of hardware that's ever died on me in my entire life? 1 HDD, 2 GPUs (both overclocked), 1 motherboard, 2 PSUs and a few cheapo case fans. Since switching to liquid bearings I haven't had any case fans die. Macs were about double the price of an equivalent PC last time I checked. For the same amount of money you can get a far superior PC. Easy to use? Macs look slick and that's about it. They're not easy, they're more idiotproof. If you're ever used a "child safe" product like a medicine bottle or cigarette lighter you know that it never makes them easier to use and usually does the opposite. Every time I ever tried to use a mac I never failed to be utterly frustrated by how they actively try to prevent you from doing things that would be simple on a PC in the name of protecting you from yourself. They're computers designed to appeal to people who know little to nothing about computers. It's also hard to find software for them, particularly games. Further, every time I see a Mac ad I feel like it's trying to convince me not to get one. I once saw an ad talking about how awesome their monitor was because it has a webcam built-in and you don't have to set it up. Ignoring the fact that setting up a webcam is trivial, my reaction was "Wait, so I can't choose my webcam, I have to turn my whole monitor to aim it and if it ever breaks I have to get a new monitor? WTF?!". Keep in mind this wasn't a laptop. It was a desktop monitor. A desktop. This even extends to their phones. I haven't looked into the current generation, but last time I looked an Evo was better than an iPhone in every way while also being cheaper. Evo: Cheaper. Higher resolution camera on both the front and back. Removable battery. Faster internet. Bigger screen. Doesn't require wifi to video chat. Removable memory card. More customization. Cheaper monthly bill. Sprint>AT&T. iPhone: It looks like an iPhone. Edit: Old, but still funny. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.04 18:09:00 - [196] - Quote Quote: .and you'll get better multi-screen performance too. I like EVGA; EVGA makes nVidia GPUs which I also like. I like PC, but I don't think any less of Mac for it. I don't think any less of ATi GPUs either; I just have my preferences. The 7950 edges out the 670 in some games. The 7950 pulls ahead when you start OCing. Multi-screen performance is the same. Quote: Nothing wrong with the 7950, and you're right, it is ~$100 less right now. Some moderate changes in performance at various levels aside, they actually come close to the same overall performance spec wise. Never tested either though, and I haven't bothered to look up the 3d benchmarking on them. The 7950 has better cooling for the price I quoted. 7950s also overclock better which pushes the performance edge from a toss up to lean 7950. Quote: Reference 670 is 2GB but you can get 4GB on it for not much more money, and with binned chips that have better than average performance. "not much more money" = Over 80 bucks more which for that amount you can get into a 7970 and have money left over. The 7970 of course will eat the 670 thanks to it's heavy overclocking ability (BEASTLY).
Ager Agemo Imperial Collective 231	Posted - 2013.03.04 19:13:00 - [197] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: the idea of collisions taking place between object models instead of bounding bubbles (they're called?) should have some damage implications, I think. as in, bumping is no longer "free" and inconsequential to the pilot performing the bump Suddenly freighters would become anti super capital bombs and titans would become planet destroyers. just imagine what would happen on jita undock when 100 frigates get caught by an inbound Charon coming out of warp? A neat idea, but not the decade for it, maybe in 20 years when we get multiple undocking points, and joystick control with no lag?
Sentamon 724	Posted - 2013.03.04 20:16:00 - [198] - Quote Ager Agemo wrote: Rain6637 wrote: the idea of collisions taking place between object models instead of bounding bubbles (they're called?) should have some damage implications, I think. as in, bumping is no longer "free" and inconsequential to the pilot performing the bump Suddenly freighters would become anti super capital bombs and titans would become planet destroyers. just imagine what would happen on jita undock when 100 frigates get caught by an inbound Charon coming out of warp? Hopefully everyone there blows up and the station too. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Stan'din Caldari Provisions Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.03.04 21:15:00 - [199] - Quote CCP please just do the right thing and actually reward the people who want the game to progress graphically.
oldbutfeelingyoung Perkone Caldari State 1008	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:11:00 - [200] - Quote Stan'din wrote: CCP please just do the right thing and actually reward the people who want the game to progress graphically. CCP can,t ,not with EvE eventually, To many alts using outdated gear. R.S.I2014

Mathrin Synthetic Solution Synthetic Systems 68	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:27:00 - [201] - Quote So when they roll out tesselation who wants to meet me in a belt and have a nice game of pong in space?
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 3691	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:31:00 - [202] - Quote Quote: What ever happened to Tesselation? We broke up. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Stan'din Incursion Squad Punkz 'n Monkeys 6	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:39:00 - [203] - Quote oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Stan'din wrote: CCP please just do the right thing and actually reward the people who want the game to progress graphically. CCP can,t ,not with EvE eventually, To many alts using outdated gear. Yea it is a shame, Can we have a name and shame section of people who don't care about upgrading there PC and enjoy holding the rest of us back ?
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 1056	Posted - 2013.03.05 22:51:00 - [204] - Quote I blame the goons for the lack of tessellation in-game. Everything else is their fault, so why not this? This is not a signature.


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