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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
178
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
So basically CCP, you trolled us. 
Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless.
Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it?
Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate.
We are recruiting talented pilots for small fleet, high quality PvP
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175061 |
Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
228
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Is there anything similar tech wise for OpenGL?
I ask because I have a dream of a native Linux client
What is the point if every race has an Jam/Damp/Disruptor/ ship etc? Not every race has to be a fluffy little mirror of each other, it's seriously not needed. Things like Gallente having the only drone BS and Caldari having the only ECM BS are incredibly cool distinctions that only add to EVE in both game play value and flavour. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1229
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kenpachi Viktor wrote:Is there anything similar tech wise for OpenGL?
I ask because I have a dream of a native Linux client
sure. GL had tesselation long before DX via extensions. Its now core functionality.
the problem with DirectX is that you can not simply use tesselation, you have to use the latest DirectX API which is not backwards compatible with the old stuff. Thats why you see that some games ship with two engine layers, one for DX9 and one for DX11
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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CCP Mankiller
C C P
C C P Alliance
110
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:So basically CCP, you trolled us. Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless. Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it? Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate.
I agree: the capitals DO look awful. Trust me, the V3-project will make them them look a lot better... (release: around summer 2013)
But: dx11 doesn't make something "just look better", you have to use dx11 features! And that takes dev time...
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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
300
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
ALSO. How does CCP know what kind of machine we use?
There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
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CCP Mankiller
C C P
C C P Alliance
110
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:ALSO. How does CCP know what kind of machine we use?
Go to 1:39! |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
2259
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Of course, if you want to give me $2000 to upgrade my home office to DX11-capable hardware before then, I won't reject your money :)
Word of advice - assemble your own PC and don't **** away your money for nothing. If you play your cards right, catch some good sales and don't do anything stupid, you can have a fantastic PC for a whole lot less. Basic DX11 capable video card (such as HD 5770) is under $100 for crying out loud, and that's "full price". Catch an X-Mas sale, and you can get it for under $70. Bam, install Win7 and you're DX11 compatible!
Word of advice: Don't cheap out on the video card when building a gaming computer: I'd be looking at a GTX 670, which will cost me about $500 in Australia (perish the thought of a GTX680). Then you build the system around the video card: motherboard and case which will fit the card, memory and processor to fit the motherboard.
I gave up building my own computers when we had a LAN party over a 4 day long weekend and spent 2.5 days fixing broken Windows installs. In one case a computer was moved from one room of the house to the common area, and Windows took the opportunity to break the networking drivers and the mouse driver.
I have visited friends trying to convince me to buy a Windows 7 gaming computer. Between all the cables (OMG the cables: I've been using iMacs for 7 years, cables are just not something I want to deal with) and the endless cycle of upgrading Windows, then upgrading video drivers, then waiting for the virus scanner to let you use the computer, we spent an hour waiting for the computer to be ready for us to play a game. He convinced me alright, and that was before Windows restarted the computer in the middle of a game in order to install a "critical update". WTF?
No, I don't have time to futz around fixing things which shouldn't be broken. No, I don't enjoy spending my time watching the sales and computer fairs and special offers just to build a computer for $800 over six months rather than just buying it off the shelf for $2000. That is time better spent shopping for a new investment property or gardening.
Yes, I mad bro.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
146
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:WinXP is the problem... It just won't die! Unfortunately it dies in a year or so. I dread the the time I have to buy a new OS for the 5 machines in our household.
Win Vista? When tried on a new machine (at the time) it made my old ZX Spectrum look fast.
Win 7? When tried I couldn't use half the machines attached to the computer and a lot of the configuration options I am used to simple where not there or excess-able without third party programs.
Win 8? I don't have a bloody smart phone! I have a PC!
Win XP does it's job just fine thank you. Including running EvE.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Etherealclams
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
DO IT DOOOOO ITT That video made me ejaculate 15 times. please. do this. please. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
379
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Considering first DX11 games started to come out in early 2010, I guess it's not too bad, only 3 years behind the times. 
EVE has always lagged several years behind the bleeding edge standards that some non-MMO games require. CCP's "legacy" customers have a ton of older hardware.
Remember the Shader Model 3.0 requirement? Oh, the moans and tears.
+++++++
I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now.
Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
675
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Word of advice: Don't cheap out on the video card when building a gaming computer: I'd be looking at a GTX 670, which will cost me about $500 in Australia (perish the thought of a GTX680). Then you build the system around the video card: motherboard and case which will fit the card, memory and processor to fit the motherboard.
670 is nice, but I'm quite happy with my 7950 for half that much! You'll get 98 FPS, I'll get 93 FPS on the same benchmark. But I saved nearly $250. My motherboard is actually a little old. More than a little. But you don't really need a cutting edge one. Again, my old one runs fine, manages BF3 maxed out and smooth as butter. Processor cost around $220 when I got it, and it's still good. So, video card and CPU cost me slightly less than your video card alone. See what I mean by not throwing money away? You can pay $100 for a banana. Doesn't make the banana any better than $0.30/lb ones.
Quote:I have visited friends trying to convince me to buy a Windows 7 gaming computer. Between all the cables (OMG the cables: I've been using iMacs for 7 years, cables are just not something I want to deal with) and the endless cycle of upgrading Windows, then upgrading video drivers, then waiting for the virus scanner to let you use the computer, we spent an hour waiting for the computer to be ready for us to play a game. He convinced me alright, and that was before Windows restarted the computer in the middle of a game in order to install a "critical update". WTF?
Really? Jeez, you need a computer-savvy friend to show you the ropes. You really do. And Windows 7 actually has one of the easy installs. If I remember right, WinXP and Win2k were significantly wonkier. And WinVista? Ugh!
Quote:No, I don't have time to futz around fixing things which shouldn't be broken. No, I don't enjoy spending my time watching the sales and computer fairs and special offers just to build a computer for $800 over six months rather than just buying it off the shelf for $2000. That is time better spent shopping for a new investment property or gardening.
Well, yeah, I suppose. Trouble is, most of those "gaming PC" packages are actually a little on the weak side. They look impressive and all, but often end up being slapped together from basically "spare parts", whatever they can get cheaper, even if it is suboptimal.
I mean, I just glanced at the "best selling" one on the local store's website. Two $140 cards in crossfire, $100 CPU, $80 MB, body, 8 Gigs of RAM (peanuts at current prices), the case, the DVD player and the keyboard/mouse (cheapie $19 ones). Total? $1600. There's no more than $800 of stuff in there. You can literally buy the same items from that same store, and pay $800 or so. Less if you catch it on sale. |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham
Industrial Technonauts
267
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!
So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...
Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you...
Can we see the client wide computer specs survey ?
Like the one done by steam?
It is forbidden to kill.
Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
178
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Moonaura wrote:So basically CCP, you trolled us. Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless. Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it? Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate. I agree: the capitals DO look awful. Trust me, the V3-project will make them look a lot better... (release: around summer 2013) But: dx11 doesn't make something "just look better", you have to use dx11 features! And that takes dev time...
Thanks for being cool enough to reply Mankiller. I figured that the capitals would get the V3 treatment at some point. I'd like to see a big polygon increase as well as just textures, and maybe them being redesigned with this in mind.
And one day, maybe the Typhoon won't look like a garbage collection lorry. Dreams are made of this :)
We are recruiting talented pilots for small fleet, high quality PvP
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175061 |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham
Industrial Technonauts
267
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Moonaura wrote:So basically CCP, you trolled us. Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless. Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it? Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate. I agree: the capitals DO look awful. Trust me, the V3-project will make them look a lot better... (release: around summer 2013) But: dx11 doesn't make something "just look better", you have to use dx11 features! And that takes dev time...
I just hope the graphics designer can make the ships a bit more... uhh.... conventional.
We have space penislands with cap and shaft
We have space heads that looks like the helmet from Dead Space
We have a random ship with spikes sticking out all over the place.
We have a brown turd that goes pew pew .
Maybe its also time for some more..... aesthetically sound designs?
It is forbidden to kill.
Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham
Industrial Technonauts
267
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Don't get me wrong, I am a graphics programmer, I love everything new. But statistics show that only ~50% of the players run dx11-ready systems. So we don't want to shut them out for this
but then again, similar to those games.
You'll have the option to opt for dx9 instead of dx11
Its not compulsory :P
and DX11 is inevitable
It is forbidden to kill.
Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
453
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
If you make EVE Online a DX11 game, then your customers would upgrade to a DX11 card.
Yes, some would not like it - it may even be a PR disaster...not that the publicity would be a bad thing, because 'all publicity is good publicity'.
Most would say 'well, it makes sense they should chose to move forward with the game graphics...I was going to get a DX11 card anyway at some point...I guess now this brings that date forward'.
If you gave us all 12 months warning this is going to happen, I think that's plenty of time to scrub $200.
Besides, it's not like EVE Online is the only game we have installed, is it?
DX9 was 2004 - get with the times everybody.
It pre-dates pure pwnage...if anyone even remembers that now.
On a related topic, CCP, can we please have an optional download of high-res textures please?
We know you have them...
AK
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham
Industrial Technonauts
267
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 03:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:If you make EVE Online a DX11 game, then your customers would upgrade to a DX11 card.
Yes, some would not like it - it may even be a PR disaster...not that the publicity would be a bad thing, because 'all publicity is good publicity'.
Most would say 'well, it makes sense they should chose to move forward with the game graphics...I was going to get a DX11 card anyway at some point...I guess now this brings that date forward'.
If you gave us all 12 months warning this is going to happen, I think that's plenty of time to scrub $200.
Besides, it's not like EVE Online is the only game we have installed, is it?
DX9 was 2004 - get with the times everybody.
It pre-dates pure pwnage...if anyone even remembers that now.
On a related topic, CCP, can we please have an optional download of high-res textures please?
We know you have them...
AK
Reserve one for me plz
It is forbidden to kill.
Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Diesel47
painkiller.
329
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Everybody get better computers by 2013 please. |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
290
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!
shall i remind thee of eve classic and eve premium... just have two compatible clients for 6 months... ffs
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Ayuren Aakiwa
Wyvern Operations
35
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Posted - 2012.12.20 04:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Seems like a waste of time.
pew pew 24/7 |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
281
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Posted - 2012.12.20 05:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tesselation is being done at their Atlanta office.
EvE Forum Bingo |
TharOkha
0asis Group
211
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Posted - 2012.12.20 06:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Don't get me wrong, I am a graphics programmer, I love everything new. But statistics show that only ~50% of the players run dx11-ready systems. So we don't want to shut them out for this
Ugh come ooon  . Do you remember when Unreal1 was released?. Only few % of computers were capable of running it. Every PC gamer desperatedly upgraded at least for minium specs (oh i remember "mom i realy need those 32MB RAM upgrade" back then ). And it were times when PC hardware was realy expensive. These days PC hardware is cheap. Problem is that devs nowadays thinks totaly different as before. They are waiting for users to upgrade. And thats the problem because it works vice versa. Players are waiting for games that will needs upgrade. Its stalemate situation. Remember that games are their minimum specs are the stimulus for upgrade. It always were, and it should be again once more.
Do you remember the times when EVE was proclaimed "best game graphic" nearly every year? As long as EVE is NOT tied with crappy console hardware, it can be best PC/Mac graphic game every year. Believe me, players WILL upgrade.
Just release two clients simultaneously (curent and dx11) for the next year and you will see that dx11 capable users will skyrocket.
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2336
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Posted - 2012.12.20 06:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:CCP Mankiller wrote:Don't get me wrong, I am a graphics programmer, I love everything new. But statistics show that only ~50% of the players run dx11-ready systems. So we don't want to shut them out for this Oh, I absolutely agree. But 50% is a pretty high number (I honestly expected a lot less). And wouldn't the new DX11 client be DX10 compatible anyway (for the remaining 40% or so). I don't imagine there's a lot of folks out there still running DX9 and WinXP. And if they do...well...maybe they should get with the times.
There's still a crapton of people playing with Win XP. Microsoft had to postpone XP dismissal several times.
With the current:
- trend to port lots of stuff to the WEB (where powerful clients are not required)
- worldwide crysis
- simple fact that XP works well, browsers work on XP, XP drivers are still being released, peripherals are to be changed when upgrading (see old yet perfectly functioning scanners, printers)
- EvE specific fact that EvE clients tend to be "light" and CCP forces "encourages" players to multi-account.
XP is here to stay for a while longer.
Edit: to make things much worse DX 11 is not "just" the factor but also the shaders engine.
IE I have a Windows 7 computer (read: much much modern than XP), with nVidia video card (read: not the worst) yet it won't run anything above the current EvE shader.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
151
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Posted - 2012.12.20 07:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Mankiller wrote:Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!
So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...
Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you...
How can I check if I'm DX11-capable? I think I am, but it'd be nice to be sure. Is there some simple test or check I can perform?
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Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures
Surely You're Joking
235
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Posted - 2012.12.20 07:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Salpad wrote:CCP Mankiller wrote:Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!
So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...
Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you... How can I check if I'm DX11-capable? I think I am, but it'd be nice to be sure. Is there some simple test or check I can perform?
just type the card you have into google/search-engine-123456789
directx is common enough that most of the cards ive bought say right on the specs which versions it is compatible with. |
AndromacheDarkstar
The Forsworn Protectorate
Imperial Protectorate
311
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Posted - 2012.12.20 07:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Rain6637 wrote:the idea of collisions taking place between object models instead of bounding bubbles (they're called?) should have some damage implications, I think. as in, bumping is no longer "free" and inconsequential to the pilot performing the bump Can people please stop suggesting that bumping should do damage, it just makes you look like a victim of James315 and would be terrible in fleets or the undock of popular stations (Jita)
Agreed, its more than stupid to ask for bumping to do damage, imagine the utter chaos of undocking a fleet.
The Forsworn Protectorate-áAmarr Militia Corp Recruiting EU TZ PVP pilots now
Also Looking for EU PVP corps to join-áa growing-áAmarr-áFW-áalliance
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2012.12.20 08:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Dx10 was the first to fully support tesellation and the first dx10 card was mid 2007.
Only DX10.1 (Shader Model 4.1) had support for early tessellation.
Nvidia never bothered to support it until they started supporting DX11.
ATI already had feature supported in their cards before feature was supported by API. We are talking about Radeon 8500 here! Yes, that's one ancient piece of hardware right there!
This ancient tessellation and tessellation supported in DX11 are totally different from each other and aren't compatible.
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Drekarg
The Dead Rabbit Society
9
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Posted - 2012.12.20 08:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quite an important feature of DX11 is that you can run Crossfire/SLI setups in EVE windowed mode. You won't need one really expensive card to get the FPS results you want you can use 2 reasonably priced cards.
Those of us that use 2 or more screens and multi GPU systems will really benefit from the upgrade CCP so come on set a date.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175061&find=unread |
Thomas Gore
State Protectorate
Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.12.20 09:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Why the hell would anyone upgrade their HW (mine is DX11 of course, I'm a geek) if there are no applications (in this case EVE) running it. Your argument makes no sense. If around 50% of your playerbase is already DX11 capable you should damn well be developing the DX11 client already, because when it's ready that 50% has grown into... 70%? 90%? Who knows.
Also, a lot of game clients offer switching between DX9 and DX11.
Don't be a backwater dev lagging behind. Be the cutting edge. You're a PC only dev (well was before DUST). Be proud of it and lead the way.
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
154
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Posted - 2012.12.20 09:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Threads like this make me feel old.
Not only do I think of XP as newish but whenever I read anything about tesselation I can't see what the fuss is about.
Will my trusty Matrox Millenium run DX11 or will I need to change the jumper settings on it first?
Fear God and Thread Nought |
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