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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.30 23:56:00 -
[1]
As mentioned before this is intended as an informative guide to anyone considering ore theft as an ingame profession. I am NOT trying to bait the mining comunity. I applaud the moderators for the excellent job they did of moderating my last post, keeping it on track and letting it run it's course. Thank you for allowing free speech on these forums.
OK then.....lesson 2 for the budding ore thief. How to set up your hauler. Well, this one depends a LOT on what your priorities are and, of course, how fat your wallet is. If you can afford to get suicide ganked in an Itty V full of 24% cargo expanders then good luck to you and that, really, is the key to whole thing. Can you (a) afford to lose it, are you (b) going to get stressed if you lose it and are you (c) bothered about getting podded?
The answer of course is don't fit what you're not prepared to lose. Even if you operate only in the highest sec space, sooner or later some suicide kessies are going to come for you. (Which I will discuss in lesson 4).
My own personal view is that it's all about shields. Sure, you can lift a lot of ore with expanders fitted but that's no use to you when you get jumped by the irate owner of that ore. In nearly 2 years i've been podded once, and that was very early in my career.
My own set up is power diagnostics in the low slots and mid slots full of shields. An Iteron V can be tanked to well over 3k shield this way. Carry cargo expanders (not expensive ones) in your hold. If you come across someone who clearly doesn't present a threat then just dock and fit the expanders. Save 1 slot for a 10NM AB.
The Itty V can also fit a 10NM MWD with the help of a few micro auxiliary power cores. Some people prefer this ability to swoop in on their prey but I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
There are of course other haulers. Most notably the Badger and Badger 2 which can be very well tanked but, really, if you're serious do the training and get the Itty V.
Next, lesson 3 - Finding your prey. There's more to it than you think.
Tenaj xxxx
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2005.05.31 00:04:00 -
[2]
...good stuff 
i lov it
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.05.31 03:31:00 -
[3]
I thought about Huff much better. What do you know - ore thiefs. 
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.05.31 04:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hyey on 31/05/2005 04:34:24
 Originally by: Tenaj
I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
Funny, someone is selling you some bad MWD then because the shield penalty was removed. 
If you however mean the bonuses from the PDU/+ whatever hellish mods you are using, nvm then.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.05.31 08:28:00 -
[5]
Tenaj is absolutely right, I've 'borrowed' ore from people on occasion who clearly aren't looking at their computers (and I would expect someone to do the same to me).
It's not about how much you can haul, it is very unlikely that you'll find a full jet-can just sitting there for the taking. At best, you might walk away with 10km3 of ore, which you can do with decent industrial skills.
It's all about someone deciding that they don't like the look of you and getting an itchy trigger finger.
This is especially true in low-sec, and doesn't just apply to ore thieves. Shield amp 4tw.
ex P-TMC
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.05.31 09:28:00 -
[6]
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
------------------------------------------
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 09:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hyey
Edited by: Hyey on 31/05/2005 04:34:24
Originally by: Tenaj
I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
Funny, someone is selling you some bad MWD then because the shield penalty was removed.
I meant the amount of actual shield mods you have to remove or offline to free up the powergrid for the MWD.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.05.31 10:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Mods&fittings more likely.
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Nerfapotamus
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Posted - 2005.05.31 10:37:00 -
[9]
It belongs right where it is. It's the second part of a series that belongs in one section. 
Tenaj. It doesn't feel like you gave this edition 100%. Think you could be more descriptive on the existing mods, ships, and amounts of skill needed to get started. Mentioning that the bestower is the best way to start, while your skilling up for something more powerful would of been nice for the budding ore relocation specialist. You didn't even mention about using giant secure containers to add more m3 room. 
Hope you put more into your post next edition. I just don't feel the love in this one. |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nerfapotamus
Tenaj. It doesn't feel like you gave this edition 100%. Think you could be more descriptive on the existing mods, ships, and amounts of skill needed to get started. Mentioning that the bestower is the best way to start, while your skilling up for something more powerful would of been nice for the budding ore relocation specialist. You didn't even mention about using giant secure containers to add more m3 room.
Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it.
Yeah, I thought about mentioning the Bestower but then I only started with one because I'm Amarrian. if I was starting over again I'd go Caldari and get a tanked Badger. That said, capacity wise the Bestower with half decent Amarr indy skills beats everything up to and including the Itty IV. It's only when you get the Itty V that you notice a real boost in cargo. I also love the missile boats. Yep, I'd be a Caldari if I could.
Using giant secures to add more m3 room? Never heard of this I have to admit. How does that work?
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:16:00 -
[11]
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
Everyone crying for a change of rule confesses: I trained the wrong thing, now change the rules because i'm a dumbass.Thats true |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
ROFL.....It does? Is that twisted or what?? I never knew, thanks a lot.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tenaj
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
ROFL.....It does? Is that twisted or what?? I never knew, thanks a lot.
maybe if you read the description it will :) logic don't come free you have to work for it.
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eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:55:00 -
[14]
hehe
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Jim Lovell
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Posted - 2005.05.31 12:02:00 -
[15]
OMG....
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.05.31 12:07:00 -
[16]
Been stealing stuff for so long and didn't know basic game mechanics :D
think of how much more you could have stolen tenaj 
Go thieves go 
Typherin LaiDai
Pirate/thief/griefer ... where all here for the same thing
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Nerfapotamus
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:02:00 -
[17]
Hehe well, now that you know of the giant secure containers power, I hope that you utilize them from now on.
The only setback is that you have to tab through the can windows to load ore instead of just grabbing and sending to hull. It takes a bit more time but it's well worth the near 1000m3 per 3000m3 of overall cargo space. Just imagine how many you could fit in a MK 5 with 24% expanders. /me drools
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:07:00 -
[18]
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Bonaventure Phaidon
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:59:00 -
[19]
For those of you who are low end (ie cheap) thieves I'd add the following advice: make sure your ship has at least 6000 cargo. Why? Because when someone has an unanchored giant secure can, often he has two unanchered giant secure cans and its a pain to grab them one by one.
A question: anyone who runs EW ore thieves? I'm wondering if there are guys out there use jammers under the 'they can't hit me if they can't see me' theory.
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h3ff
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Posted - 2005.05.31 14:26:00 -
[20]
other things to note :-
a viator [gallente blocade runner] has loads of resistances and the ability to load a 10MN A/B with no other mods needed
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.31 16:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
And lose valuable cargo expander space? I think not.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.05.31 16:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
And lose valuable cargo expander space? I think not.
Tenaj was talking about fitting an MWD anyways, and that requires low slots full of power diags.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
|
Ashley Sky
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Posted - 2005.05.31 18:51:00 -
[23]
I fly an Occator transport ship to reclaim ore. For those of you with high aspirations, in my opinion, it is the one of the best ships for the advanced thief. I am always improving my setup. Here are my current configurations...
*** Configuration 1 (standard empire setup) ***
Hislot: no good ideas for this since there are no turret points. Possibly a prototype or improved cloak. Mid: 10mn micro-warp drive, named cargo scanner. Low: 4x Beta hull mods and local hull conversion 25 and 24% expanders. 2x nanofiber internals for speed and agility.
Stats: Top speed ~500m/s w 15,000m3 cargo (19,500 with giant secure containers) ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. Medium warp times. The scan resolution is awesome on the Occator so locks on cargo containers are more than 5 times faster than a standard hauler. Great for scanning.
*** Configuration 2 (speed)***
Low: 6x nanofiber internals
Stats: Top speed ~1500m/s w 6,500m3 cargo (8,300 with giant secures) ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. This setup is good for travelling. Fast warp times.
*** Configuration 3 (max cargo)***
Low: 6x named cargo expanders. 24-25%
Stats: Top speed ~190m/s w 27,500m3+ cargo (7 giant secures by default). I think with 27% expanders you could easily break the 30k barrier. ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. Extremely slow acceleration and warp times.
*** Configuration 4 (Blockade Buster) ***
Highslot: Smartbomb Med: 10mn micro-warp drive, ECM Burst (to break tackler locks) Low: 6x warp core stabalizers
Stats: Top Speed ~900m/s w 6,500m3 cargo (8,300 with giants) ~10,000hp total shields/hull/armor.
If you are stealing ice, it's best to leave the giant secure containers at home and fit for a big gulp.
On the standard setup, It's rather invincible against standard suicide attacks in empire belts. It can easily tank a full run of torps from a raven. The only thing you really have to watch out for would be the suicide battleship fully loaded with smartbombs. 30 suicide kestrels moving in on me might also cause some worry, as would 10 caracals, or equivalents. If you see a BS without miners within 10km, time to move along.
So far, nobody has presented the skill or organization it would take to finish me off with this kind of setup, however a few brave pilots have tried. 
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Clementina
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Posted - 2005.06.01 11:56:00 -
[24]
About all that CPU that haulers have. Is there any way to derive use from it? Or will there always be tons of extra CPU on a hauler.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.01 22:44:00 -
[25]
There will usually be some extra. It's there so you can shield tank it or fit EW to supplement pirate frigates or operate in dangerous areas.
If you have extra midslots, fit cargo scanners. You can use em to scan the cargo holds of cans, which invalidates the tricks of dropping fake cans or emptying the can and leaving a "Kiss my bloody, cankerous d***" bookmark. That'll save you a 10km trip to the can.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.02 08:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
I thought about Huff much better. What do you know - ore thiefs.
I think you have the wrong idea about Huff.
You are what you take.
If someone has something you want, take it.
Ship full of nice mods - blow it up and take it.
Cargo can full of ore - take it.
Nice 0.0 region - take it.
What makes Huff different is our honesty and loyalty.
This doesn't hamper us too much though. As we don't have too many friends compared with the total population of Eve, we still have a target rich enviroment.
We are good to our word and true to our friends ... everyone else though? Well that's their problem.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.02 17:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 02/06/2005 17:44:56
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 02/06/2005 17:44:40
Originally by: Avon
I think you have the wrong idea about Huff.
You are what you take.
Thats exactly that I thought. Then ppl take ore from an open can in high sec its... well... It not like you fly in and take ore from BIG can in the middle of Fountain.
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Carter83
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Posted - 2005.06.05 00:43:00 -
[28]
You'd think if CCP really gave a **** they'd get rid of the jetcan having a cap of 270000000000blah (dont know the actual cap but its large enough to fit a frig) that jetted it in the first place.
Have timers on secure cans to prevent a clog up of cans in roid belts (omg an idea, shame ccp will neva see it in this post )
But i guess its all part of the food chain pvper's keep miners in bussiness and miners keep ore thieves from having to actually mine.
As far as corp thieving is concerned thats an exploit. even if a family member did it in RL you could still charge em for it. (yep, i used the Xploit word, so flame me ***** )
As always like piracy if it gets over the top people will vote with their feet and CCP will be more understanding. Til that day comes you are just gonna have to use those tiny "Giant" containers to fit those LARGE pieces of expensive ICE in.
And remember an ore thief is acceptable being abusive to one can get you in trouble with ccp.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.05 17:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Carter83
You'd think if CCP really gave a **** they'd get rid of the jetcan having a cap of 270000000000blah (dont know the actual cap but its large enough to fit a frig) that jetted it in the first place.
Have timers on secure cans to prevent a clog up of cans in roid belts (omg an idea, shame ccp will neva see it in this post )
But i guess its all part of the food chain pvper's keep miners in bussiness and miners keep ore thieves from having to actually mine.
As far as corp thieving is concerned thats an exploit. even if a family member did it in RL you could still charge em for it. (yep, i used the Xploit word, so flame me ***** )
As always like piracy if it gets over the top people will vote with their feet and CCP will be more understanding. Til that day comes you are just gonna have to use those tiny "Giant" containers to fit those LARGE pieces of expensive ICE in.
And remember an ore thief is acceptable being abusive to one can get you in trouble with ccp.
You could always lose the jet cans altogether and have to either mine into your hold (as was originally intended) or into secure cans, you know.
It's really hard to call something an exploit of the game mechanics when it's actually listed as a career in EVE on the EVE FAQ.
Exploit means abusing the game mechanics in a way that was not only not intended by CCP (including jet can mining), but disrupts the game altogether (which, with jet can mining, is kept in check by ore thieves).
Exploiting other people isn't an exploit. Exploiting other people is the very foundation of EVE, not happy huggy FFXI teamwork. Teamwork just happens on accident.
SO here's your flame.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.06 01:51:00 -
[30]
its not easy is it Corvus.
your calling jet can mining an exploit while sactioning ore theft from the same can's you say is an exploit.
well taking advantage of an exploit is an exploit.
if someone print money and you steal it and use it, your not working to prevent the person from becomming rich, your still a criminal.
you can not make the fundation illegal and then saction what comes out of whats illegal.
in my book ore theft is just fine, but as long its done without reactions from those that are supposed to keep law and order in place its not.
if you remove jetting you remove ore theft all the way, they could not even steal anything not even in 0.4 and lower because only anchored cans would be possible.
ore theft dont help on any situation, it only make the lazy or the rich main even richer, stealing from a miner in 0.9 or 1.0 wont make him move to 0.0 to get tritanium no it will only make them stay even longer in 0.9 or 1.0 space.
while there is a few people that actually have made a profession out of stealing ore, most of them are doing just to have a chance to get on peoples nerves, the more anfry them make people the more satisfaction they get from the game.
But then again Corvus, in this thread you favor the ore thieves in the next your against them, the only thing certain is that you do not agree with the last poster.
so what are they? ore thieves, criminals? or Carebears?
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.06 11:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sweetpain
Edited by: Sweetpain on 06/06/2005 01: |
Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.06 12:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
THERE IS NO MORAL BASIS FOR MY OPINION ON THIS SUBJECT. |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.06 13:08:00 -
[33]
If miners in 0.9 and 1.0 are not rich, then the ore thieves can not become rich.
If they are rich, they have nothing to worry about.
Think about the arguements you make, people here love pointing out a paradox.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.06 13:12:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Corvus Dove on 06/06/2005 13:14:52
Being as I ore thief when broke and unable to find targets in low sec, I find it hard to believe they're all alts.
In fact, I know quite a few people who thieve with their mains.
TBH I kinda stopped reading your post after reading that miners aren't getting rich in high-sec, but ore thieves are. Considering an ore thief usually can't pop a can, and I've seen barges stripping roids in 0.8 and above in teams of three or more, I have to call shenanigans. It's simply mathematically impossible, given the ratio of mined ore to what the typical ore thief actually steals. Some thieves may get rich by hopping from system to system stealing ore, but at the end of the day they're typically making about as much as one mining team while lowering the profits of several down to the level of one really persisten ore thief. That's balance; more people are making the same amount of money without any one getting enormously rich.
I'm not sure how a stack limit would accomplish much more than lag, irritation, and people using "select all" to steal ore.
Again, you're trying to discourage ore thieves, and that's bad for EVE. To control the wild drop in mineral prices (thus making all manufacturers rediculously rich, because most will not lower their prices in exact proportion) the devs would have to uber-nerf jetcans altogether, killing jet can mining.
The only reason that can is so big is because commonly the loot from a destroyed vessel takes up more space than its cargo hold. You can't shrink it, with freighters around the corner.
Edit: Personally, I use no alts. Why should I? I'm a perfectly horrible human being with my main, no need to hide behind an alt.
Logic strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 999.9 damage.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.06 13:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Avon
If miners in 0.9 and 1.0 are not rich, then the ore thieves can not become rich.
If they are rich, they have nothing to worry about.
Think about the arguements you make, people here love pointing out a paradox.
do you give away the isk you steal from the rich to the poor as well? your name is maybe Robin Hood as well?
if you spot a Imicus mining in to a can do you steal their ore? offcourse you do. Do you care how long it taken them to mine it? offcourse not. do you care if its mined with a newbie ship or a ship with 3 strip miners. offcourse not.
when all comes down to it its quick isk, with no risk.
cause your just out making balance. And you talk about Paradox?
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.06 13:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
TBH I kinda stopped reading your post after reading that miners aren't getting rich in high-sec,
Have a feeling you do that a lot.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.06 13:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sweetpain
Originally by: Corvus Dove
TBH I kinda stopped reading your post after reading that miners aren't getting rich in high-sec,
Have a feeling you do that a lot.
That's because you say silly, illogical things very often.
And you can't pick your mark by the ship they're using, unless it's a strip miner. If they're in an Imicus solo in a belt, it's not worth it usually. If they've got a hauler moving the ore as the Imicus finishes up, time to bolt for that can before the hauler gets to it. If the Imicus has three different time-labelled cans around it, yank away.
You shouldn't "not steal" from newbs just because they're newbs, TBH. I can't enter 0.9 or 1.0 anyway, so personally I don't, but if a new player starts jet-can mining (or anything else as risky) then they should face the risk like any other player. Otherwise, they'll turn into one of those people who thinks jet can mining safely is a right, not a lucky draw.
Fact is, most *truly new* players don't know about jet-can mining until someone teaches them. So it's not really the newbs suffering from ore thieves.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.06 14:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sweetpain
Originally by: Avon
If miners in 0.9 and 1.0 are not rich, then the ore thieves can not become rich.
If they are rich, they have nothing to worry about.
Think about the arguements you make, people here love pointing out a paradox.
do you give away the isk you steal from the rich to the poor as well? your name is maybe Robin Hood as well?
if you spot a Imicus mining in to a can do you steal their ore? offcourse you do. Do you care how long it taken them to mine it? offcourse not. do you care if its mined with a newbie ship or a ship with 3 strip miners. offcourse not.
when all comes down to it its quick isk, with no risk.
cause your just out making balance. And you talk about Paradox?
A choice between an imicus or a big macro mining op, which do you think the ore thief is going to choose?
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.06 18:35:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Sweetpain
Originally by: Avon
If miners in 0.9 and 1.0 are not rich, then the ore thieves can not become rich.
If they are rich, they have nothing to worry about.
Think about the arguements you make, people here love pointing out a paradox.
do you give away the isk you steal from the rich to the poor as well? your name is maybe Robin Hood as well?
if you spot a Imicus mining in to a can do you steal their ore? offcourse you do. Do you care how long it taken them to mine it? offcourse not. do you care if its mined with a newbie ship or a ship with 3 strip miners. offcourse not.
when all comes down to it its quick isk, with no risk.
cause your just out making balance. And you talk about Paradox?
A choice between an imicus or a big macro mining op, which do you think the ore thief is going to choose?
 Both
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.06.07 13:26:00 -
[40]
Those who actually thinks that ore thieving is the reason why the jet can exploit won't get nerfed, are maybe thinking a bit too highly of themselves. Fact: There are 1000s of miners and lets face it, not too many ore thieves; the main reason it doesnt get nerfed, as I see it, is that CCP didnt really think too much when they planned how miners should actually mine, and now if they nerfed it, many would quit mining, unless they have a helping haulers hand(which all really should have);thus making all kind of builds more expensive.
Those who think that they are proud that they are taking cans, and think its in the line of piracy, well... nub is all i can think of. I dont care about ore thieves really coz miners shouldnt really be mining in systems where there are 100s of ppl, so their own fault really, what is an annuisance are the ones that steal cargo cans, I do think that all people really dislikes that, pirat or not. That is really the lowest of the lowest, and CCP really should taking care of that.
________________________________________
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Fogy
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Posted - 2005.06.07 15:34:00 -
[41]
OFF TOPIC PLZ STFU! AND GO BACK TO YOUR COVETOR VS VELDSPAR Fighting..
Tenja: How much can you fitt in a Itty5 with that settup you explain there? speed etc etc..(think you forgot to mention :) )
like the "Player developed features" you and other non-alt thiefs put into the game, personaly i prefere thous who does it in a roleplaying way.
looking forward for part3, as its what im mostly curious about. (i like hunting )
Cheers!
Fogy
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
♥RUBRA♥
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GBBUTT
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Posted - 2005.06.08 06:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Hmm pretty sure the act of stealing is a crime...schise....i better go steal a big ass LCD screen now...i aint gonna get busted WOOOOOOO
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.08 16:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dracolich
Those who actually thinks that ore thieving is the reason why the jet can exploit won't get nerfed, are maybe thinking a bit too highly of themselves. Fact: There are 1000s of miners and lets face it, not too many ore thieves; the main reason it doesnt get nerfed, as I see it, is that CCP didnt really think too much when they planned how miners should actually mine, and now if they nerfed it, many would quit mining, unless they have a helping haulers hand(which all really should have);thus making all kind of builds more expensive.
Those who think that they are proud that they are taking cans, and think its in the line of piracy, well... nub is all i can think of. I dont care about ore thieves really coz miners shouldnt really be mining in systems where there are 100s of ppl, so their own fault really, what is an annuisance are the ones that steal cargo cans, I do think that all people really dislikes that, pirat or not. That is really the lowest of the lowest, and CCP really should taking care of that.
Excuse me, but I'm the lowest of the low dammit, and I think it would ruin my day and this game if CCP were to come in and say I couldn't be the lowest of the low anymore because of some moral objection.
EVE isn't the USA, and CCP aren't the GOP, so quit treating both like they are and start solving your own problems. 
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Harry MacDougal
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Posted - 2005.06.16 23:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: GBBUTT
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Hmm pretty sure the act of stealing is a crime...schise....i better go steal a big ass LCD screen now...i aint gonna get busted WOOOOOOO
But we're not stealing, we're moving garbage.
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Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Spy, wrecking for 411.2 damage. |
Rich Head
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Posted - 2005.06.18 01:49:00 -
[45]
Two unbiased thoughts on this:
1. Noobs should be warned about ore thieves by the tutorial agent...eg. mining in high sec space has it's downsides. Once warned they may not decide to jetcan in high sec space.
2. The ore thieves need to think outside the free isk box....the more noobs they steal from will eventually lead to less noobs to steal from.
Maybe it's time for CCP to think about introducing mining training grounds as well as deadspace one's. Let the new players see what can happen.
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Alexander Nocturnes
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Posted - 2005.06.18 11:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: GBBUTT
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Hmm pretty sure the act of stealing is a crime...schise....i better go steal a big ass LCD screen now...i aint gonna get busted WOOOOOOO
You dont get punished for stealing ore, therefor it is not a crime. You dont get flagged, lose sec status etc...
You are a glorified hauler lol
But whatever floats your boat
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Jim Lovell
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Posted - 2005.06.19 11:09:00 -
[47]
but the funny thing is ore thieves think we really care about them...
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AlexK100
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Posted - 2005.06.19 16:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: GBBUTT
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Hmm pretty sure the act of stealing is a crime...schise....i better go steal a big ass LCD screen now...i aint gonna get busted WOOOOOOO
You can do it if you`ll find it in rubbish bin.
Jetcan = space rubbish bin.
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PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2005.06.28 00:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: AlexK100
Originally by: GBBUTT
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Hmm pretty sure the act of stealing is a crime...schise....i better go steal a big ass LCD screen now...i aint gonna get busted WOOOOOOO
You can do it if you`ll find it in rubbish bin.
Jetcan = space rubbish bin.
you m8 have a point all hail the garbage men of eve uhmm and women in their giant garbage trucks
/me jettisons toilet tank into space "argh oops well no worries im sure tenaj will be right around the corner" 
http://www.snigg.cjb.net/
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Shiner BockBeer
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Posted - 2005.06.29 21:48:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Shiner BockBeer on 29/06/2005 21:52:19
When are we getting lesson three?
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.06.29 23:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shiner BockBeer
Edited by: Shiner BockBeer on 29/06/2005 21:52:19
When are we getting lesson three?
Coming right up
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Jim Lovell
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Posted - 2005.06.30 11:07:00 -
[52]
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Shiner BockBeer
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Posted - 2005.06.30 21:34:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tenaj
Coming right up
Ask and ye shall receive!
Sweet. :)
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Zeepo
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Posted - 2005.06.30 21:37:00 -
[54]
I look forward to your next post Tenaj |
Big doggy
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Posted - 2005.07.01 04:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jim Lovell
but the funny thing is ore thieves think we really care about them...
Ahhhhh Jim the Troll, the wannabe ore thief who hangs out in Tookurstuff, speaks! |
LAILA BARHIR
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Posted - 2005.07.01 08:47:00 -
[56]
You know what the funny thing is? None of the ore thieves that I READ THE POSTS OF here have the guts to say "i'm an ore thief." Instead, they say things like "ore relocation specialist."
I did not read all four pages of this thread, so if there was an ore thief who had the guts to admit what they realy are, I salute you.
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Ceti
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Posted - 2005.07.01 11:18:00 -
[57]
Thank you Tenaj, this lesson is gold for all those hardworking relocation consultants.
I shall do some tweaking to get maximum return on investment.
Many Thanks
Ceti
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akrotor
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Posted - 2005.07.08 09:03:00 -
[58]
how coem when i ore theiv it ends up me having to shoot the hualers because they jsut wont jet there ore okay also a quic k que i only can fly itny 3 is tt oaky or shoudl i wait more
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K3NDY
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Posted - 2005.07.08 12:31:00 -
[59]
Edited by: K3NDY on 08/07/2005 12:36:16
Edited by: K3NDY on 08/07/2005 12:36:04
i use an ity 2 atm, works a treat for my ore relocation program.
get electronics 5 and cloaking 3, then u can sneak up on the carebears to about 2500m then just blast the mwd to the can and POP!
or u can just look in 0.9+ for afk haulers with their lasers on. a lot of em have 27% expanders, get 3 friends in caracals to suicide gank em, missiles will do max damage now on a motionless hauler. u wait in an indy and pick up the drop can (caracals get bombed by concord) but considering the price of 27% xpanders u wont lose out
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.07.08 13:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tenaj
My own set up is power diagnostics in the low slots and mid slots full of shields. An Iteron V can be tanked to well over 3k shield this way. Carry cargo expanders (not expensive ones) in your hold. If you come across someone who clearly doesn't present a threat then just dock and fit the expanders. Save 1 slot for a 10NM AB.
3k shields? That ought to takem me 10 sec to cut through.
As for being podded, no need, blowing up the ship is sufficient.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
K3NDY
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Posted - 2005.07.08 15:51:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Derisor
Originally by: Tenaj
My own set up is power diagnostics in the low slots and mid slots full of shields. An Iteron V can be tanked to well over 3k shield this way. Carry cargo expanders (not expensive ones) in your hold. If you come across someone who clearly doesn't present a threat then just dock and fit the expanders. Save 1 slot for a 10NM AB.
3k shields? That ought to takem me 10 sec to cut through.
As for being podded, no need, blowing up the ship is sufficient.
and if its in 0.5+ it will take concord about 1 sec to cut through ur shields armour and hull, then tenaj can take ur ore and ur fittings!! ORE THEFT FOR THE WIN!!!!
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Shiner BockBeer
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Posted - 2005.07.09 18:55:00 -
[62]
Did I miss something?
I still haven't seen lesson 3.
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The Longinus
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Posted - 2005.09.29 14:10:00 -
[63]
This is a great post.. not only for the Ore Thiefs but also for the miners. Keep posting your setups plz, we will attleast know how to kill you when you come. Thanks for the heads up.
PS. Warp Scramblers and s**t loads of drones should do the trick.
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Vogon
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:00:00 -
[64]
Just a thought about the Iteron V. Its a bit long and some folk like to bash ore theives ships with their own to stop the ore theif getting to their can. The bigger the ship the more knocking about you tend to receive. Thats why I prefer the Iteron IV, or in my case, the Iteron IV Ghia...
www.vogon.homestead.com
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Sebastien LeReparteur
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Posted - 2005.10.18 18:06:00 -
[65]
Are there ore Thiefs int he 0.4 too 0.1 systems too?
Sounds like a nice "Lure" for extended cargo or modules...
"> Hey guys comme pick up the jetcan it si full"
"> Oups wrong channel"
Then sit back and wait with scrambler trigger close.
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Cod Ball
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Posted - 2005.10.21 08:20:00 -
[66]
Sorry but stealing other peoples ore is a scabby job.....your just ruining peoples hard work!
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.10.21 10:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cod Ball
Sorry but stealing other peoples ore is a scabby job.....your just ruining peoples hard work!
No need to apologise......
IMHO, jet can mining is just a socially accepted exploit. Jet miners stripping 1.0 systems in an Apoc are just taking the **** put of the hard working players who use the proper tools provided. I have no qualms with being the consequence of their greed.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Druid R
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:32:00 -
[68]
readign the post on first page abotu the secure cans, take up 3000m3 but give 3900m3, shouldn't this mean u can get infinite space with enough cans? if i put a can in my hold, then a can in my can i have boosted by 4800 space straight away, or are ccp clever and u cant put cans incans?
Dru. |
Imaweepony
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Posted - 2005.10.21 11:38:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Druid R
readign the post on first page abotu the secure cans, take up 3000m3 but give 3900m3, shouldn't this mean u can get infinite space with enough cans? if i put a can in my hold, then a can in my can i have boosted by 4800 space straight away, or are ccp clever and u cant put cans incans?
Can't put a can in a can, would destroy the universe or some such thing.
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Jessonater
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Posted - 2005.10.21 17:44:00 -
[70]
First off you need to fit your Badger II with a MWD, now that does take ENG V, and the ability to augment your powersource by 45% but! its worth it. People cannot stop a badger warping around at 1.3km/s
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Delana Mosalaine
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Posted - 2005.10.22 09:59:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cod Ball
Sorry but stealing other peoples ore is a scabby job.....your just ruining peoples hard work!
I Really do like the hard work part
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Gonrada Futar
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Posted - 2005.11.08 23:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Originally by: Dracolich
Those who actually thinks that ore thieving is the reason why the jet can exploit won't get nerfed, are maybe thinking a bit too highly of themselves. Fact: There are 1000s of miners and lets face it, not too many ore thieves; the main reason it doesnt get nerfed, as I see it, is that CCP didnt really think too much when they planned how miners should actually mine, and now if they nerfed it, many would quit mining, unless they have a helping haulers hand(which all really should have);thus making all kind of builds more expensive.
Those who think that they are proud that they are taking cans, and think its in the line of piracy, well... nub is all i can think of. I dont care about ore thieves really coz miners shouldnt really be mining in systems where there are 100s of ppl, so their own fault really, what is an annuisance are the ones that steal cargo cans, I do think that all people really dislikes that, pirat or not. That is really the lowest of the lowest, and CCP really should taking care of that.
Excuse me, but I'm the lowest of the low dammit, and I think it would ruin my day and this game if CCP were to come in and say I couldn't be the lowest of the low anymore because of some moral objection.
EVE isn't the USA, and CCP aren't the GOP, so quit treating both like they are and start solving your own problems.
Well i agree... but hold up... I happen to be a miner... but hold up again because i think that jet can mining is AN Xplot!! I happen to have a friend sit in a fairly Large Badger while i mine, @ which point we split profit made 50/50... I HAVE NO PROB with the ore thief ... but i believe that the ore thief should save such actions for corps Not newb players, also ... the ore thief who stays in a NPC corp is well... stupid in my opion...
ok im done, Bring the hate trying to justify stealing from newbs and staying in NPC corps
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Riven Wolfreign
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Posted - 2005.11.30 05:23:00 -
[73]
You know its funny how all the thieves say that jet can mining is the exploit though in the next patch they are making it so if you take something from a can if you werent the one to deploy it you are flagged......
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Skyscorcher
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Posted - 2005.11.30 06:09:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Riven Wolfreign
You know its funny how all the thieves say that jet can mining is the exploit though in the next patch they are making it so if you take something from a can if you werent the one to deploy it you are flagged......
It's to provide risk to the occupation.
If Ore Thievery was an "Exploit" or "Griefing" or "Not Cool," then instead of being flagged, you'd see a Concord Response.
Think about it.
______________________________
PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR! |
Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.11.30 07:04:00 -
[75]
So who's tested can flagging? Could you answer the following:
Does the flag apply to gang members?
Does the flag trigger 'act of aggression' so you can't dock/warp for 1 min.?
Will sentries wtfpwd you near a gate?
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Macro Media
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Posted - 2005.11.30 10:44:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Macro Media on 30/11/2005 10:44:51
Originally by: Meryl Stryfe
So who's tested can flagging? Could you answer the following:
Does the flag apply to gang members?
Does the flag trigger 'act of aggression' so you can't dock/warp for 1 min.?
Will sentries wtfpwd you near a gate?
I have been told the following.
Flag only applies to ore theif.
Flag does not effect concord or anyone else. No Docking rules.
Flag does nothing other than let the victim, victims gang, all gang members corp, be allowed to take a free shot at the theif following the same combat rules as per a wartarget. If the theif responds, he can only respond to those that attack him. Theifs gang/corp/etc cannot join in.
If this worries you, then there are other ways to steal ore without getting flagged.
------------
Criminal EVE Guides
Evil Genius 101 Guide |
Sam Arran
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Posted - 2005.12.07 20:46:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Sam Arran on 07/12/2005 20:46:26
Originally by: Tenaj
Now THAT, in a nutshell, is the facts of the matter. What Avon is underlining here is the one simple truth of the issue, which is that ore theft is a COUNTER TO AN EXPLOIT and NOT an exploit in itself.
Miners should be bloody grateful to us. If it wasn't for the likes of me the devs would have nerfed the jet can mining EXPLOIT ages ago.
Your arrogance is astounding. Who are you to decide what is an exploit and what isn't? Who are you to dictate to other people that they should be grateful to you for stealing their ore. Who are you to dictate to people how they should play EVE?
This isn't about roleplaying as a pirate; that's not what you're doing at all. True pirates take risks - they earn their rewards by putting their ships and their lives on the line in 0.0. You're worse than the carebears (not my choice of word) you obviously enjoy causing grief to, as you do so with impunity and at no risk to yourself. |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.12.08 01:53:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sam Arran
Your arrogance is astounding. Who are you to decide what is an exploit and what isn't?
My arrogance, it would seem, is only matched by your ignorance. Allow me to help... CCP have always stated that the use of jet cans for mining was never intended. You can read it here:
Linkage
Quote:
Who are you to dictate to people how they should play EVE?
I've never suggested anyone should play the game in a particular way. I'm happy to remove ore from those who continue to use jet cans in the way CCP didn't intend them to. The people I steal from can freely decide on how they want to play.
Quote:
This isn't about roleplaying as a pirate; that's not what you're doing at all. True pirates take risks - they earn their rewards by putting their ships and their lives on the line in 0.0.
Whoa!!!......When have I ever said I was a Pirate? I assume you read the subject line in this post before you replied?? I'm an ORE THIEF, hence the thread title ORE THEFT 101.
Quote:
You're worse than the carebears (not my choice of word) you obviously enjoy causing grief to, as you do so with impunity and at no risk to yourself.
Sigh.....That one again. OK, look. Check my employment history and check my bounty. If you're still confused read lesson 5 in this series. I can't be bothered to explain it all again. Which reminds me, there's also something in there about never entering into a battle of wits with the unarmed. I really should listen to my own advice sometimes...
T xxx
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Skyscorcher
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Posted - 2005.12.09 06:58:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tenaj
Linkage
I've been looking for this.
Excellent...
...
That link is humongous... :\
______________________________
PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR! |
Brannik Taal
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Posted - 2005.12.15 17:51:00 -
[80]
I'll bite on the hook of those asserting that Jetcan mining is an "exploit".
Things are only an exploit if they use gaps in the game mechanics in a way that is clearly unrealistic or unfair. For example, using clipping bugs in an FPS is an exploit.
I don't think of jetcan mining like this ; sure, it wasn't anticipated by the designers. But it doesn't violate any of the EVE universe physics, and it's not exactly unfair - this is how people mine in the real world. You don't see coalcutters driving down a pit to cut a swath of coal, and then drive up the shaft again to deliver it to the power station. The coalcutter stays at the coalface. The coal is driven to the power station by a huge truck.
Rocket jumping is arguably bloody stupid - you shouldn't be able to survive shooting an explosive rocket into the ground at your feet. But then again, by the same token, you shouldn't survive a hit from someone elses rocket. Rocket jumping is therefore fine, within the rules of the games that permit it. Now people design levels with it in mind.
Jetcan mining is just art imitating life, using the rules of the game. It's emergent gameplay, not an exploit. Stealing from peoples unguarded hoard of ore ; that's emergent gameplay too. You will get similar things happening wherever you have a looseley constrained complex system with rules. It's just a natural consequence of games that have evolved beyond the 2D sidescrolling platform jumper.
Flagging those who steal from jetcans is just swinging the needle back towards reality. Up until now, you could feasibly just roll up to a corporate mining operation in high security space, steal a full load, and run away, without any kind of comeback. Which we all know is not how the world works.
I hope it makes things more exciting for you ore relocation consultants. I know it's going to make things more exciting for us ore excavation specialists.
And when you come down to it, more exciting games are what we all want.
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Skyran
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Posted - 2006.01.20 15:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Brannik Taal
And when you come down to it, more exciting games are what we all want.
I'll drink to that!
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