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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.30 23:56:00 -
[1]
As mentioned before this is intended as an informative guide to anyone considering ore theft as an ingame profession. I am NOT trying to bait the mining comunity. I applaud the moderators for the excellent job they did of moderating my last post, keeping it on track and letting it run it's course. Thank you for allowing free speech on these forums.
OK then.....lesson 2 for the budding ore thief. How to set up your hauler. Well, this one depends a LOT on what your priorities are and, of course, how fat your wallet is. If you can afford to get suicide ganked in an Itty V full of 24% cargo expanders then good luck to you and that, really, is the key to whole thing. Can you (a) afford to lose it, are you (b) going to get stressed if you lose it and are you (c) bothered about getting podded?
The answer of course is don't fit what you're not prepared to lose. Even if you operate only in the highest sec space, sooner or later some suicide kessies are going to come for you. (Which I will discuss in lesson 4).
My own personal view is that it's all about shields. Sure, you can lift a lot of ore with expanders fitted but that's no use to you when you get jumped by the irate owner of that ore. In nearly 2 years i've been podded once, and that was very early in my career.
My own set up is power diagnostics in the low slots and mid slots full of shields. An Iteron V can be tanked to well over 3k shield this way. Carry cargo expanders (not expensive ones) in your hold. If you come across someone who clearly doesn't present a threat then just dock and fit the expanders. Save 1 slot for a 10NM AB.
The Itty V can also fit a 10NM MWD with the help of a few micro auxiliary power cores. Some people prefer this ability to swoop in on their prey but I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
There are of course other haulers. Most notably the Badger and Badger 2 which can be very well tanked but, really, if you're serious do the training and get the Itty V.
Next, lesson 3 - Finding your prey. There's more to it than you think.
Tenaj xxxx
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2005.05.31 00:04:00 -
[2]
...good stuff 
i lov it
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.05.31 03:31:00 -
[3]
I thought about Huff much better. What do you know - ore thiefs. 
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.05.31 04:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hyey on 31/05/2005 04:34:24
 Originally by: Tenaj
I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
Funny, someone is selling you some bad MWD then because the shield penalty was removed. 
If you however mean the bonuses from the PDU/+ whatever hellish mods you are using, nvm then.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.05.31 08:28:00 -
[5]
Tenaj is absolutely right, I've 'borrowed' ore from people on occasion who clearly aren't looking at their computers (and I would expect someone to do the same to me).
It's not about how much you can haul, it is very unlikely that you'll find a full jet-can just sitting there for the taking. At best, you might walk away with 10km3 of ore, which you can do with decent industrial skills.
It's all about someone deciding that they don't like the look of you and getting an itchy trigger finger.
This is especially true in low-sec, and doesn't just apply to ore thieves. Shield amp 4tw.
ex P-TMC
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.05.31 09:28:00 -
[6]
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 09:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hyey
Edited by: Hyey on 31/05/2005 04:34:24
Originally by: Tenaj
I don't like the amount of shield I have to remove to fit it.
Funny, someone is selling you some bad MWD then because the shield penalty was removed.
I meant the amount of actual shield mods you have to remove or offline to free up the powergrid for the MWD.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.05.31 10:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: MadGaz
Doesn't belong in crime & punishment....
Mods&fittings more likely.
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Nerfapotamus
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Posted - 2005.05.31 10:37:00 -
[9]
It belongs right where it is. It's the second part of a series that belongs in one section. 
Tenaj. It doesn't feel like you gave this edition 100%. Think you could be more descriptive on the existing mods, ships, and amounts of skill needed to get started. Mentioning that the bestower is the best way to start, while your skilling up for something more powerful would of been nice for the budding ore relocation specialist. You didn't even mention about using giant secure containers to add more m3 room. 
Hope you put more into your post next edition. I just don't feel the love in this one. |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nerfapotamus
Tenaj. It doesn't feel like you gave this edition 100%. Think you could be more descriptive on the existing mods, ships, and amounts of skill needed to get started. Mentioning that the bestower is the best way to start, while your skilling up for something more powerful would of been nice for the budding ore relocation specialist. You didn't even mention about using giant secure containers to add more m3 room.
Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it.
Yeah, I thought about mentioning the Bestower but then I only started with one because I'm Amarrian. if I was starting over again I'd go Caldari and get a tanked Badger. That said, capacity wise the Bestower with half decent Amarr indy skills beats everything up to and including the Itty IV. It's only when you get the Itty V that you notice a real boost in cargo. I also love the missile boats. Yep, I'd be a Caldari if I could.
Using giant secures to add more m3 room? Never heard of this I have to admit. How does that work?
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:16:00 -
[11]
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
Everyone crying for a change of rule confesses: I trained the wrong thing, now change the rules because i'm a dumbass.Thats true |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
ROFL.....It does? Is that twisted or what?? I never knew, thanks a lot.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tenaj
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
Giant sec can 3000m3 space, fits 3900 in it.
ROFL.....It does? Is that twisted or what?? I never knew, thanks a lot.
maybe if you read the description it will :) logic don't come free you have to work for it.
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eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2005.05.31 11:55:00 -
[14]
hehe
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Jim Lovell
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Posted - 2005.05.31 12:02:00 -
[15]
OMG....
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.05.31 12:07:00 -
[16]
Been stealing stuff for so long and didn't know basic game mechanics :D
think of how much more you could have stolen tenaj 
Go thieves go 
Typherin LaiDai
Pirate/thief/griefer ... where all here for the same thing
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Nerfapotamus
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:02:00 -
[17]
Hehe well, now that you know of the giant secure containers power, I hope that you utilize them from now on.
The only setback is that you have to tab through the can windows to load ore instead of just grabbing and sending to hull. It takes a bit more time but it's well worth the near 1000m3 per 3000m3 of overall cargo space. Just imagine how many you could fit in a MK 5 with 24% expanders. /me drools
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:07:00 -
[18]
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Bonaventure Phaidon
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:59:00 -
[19]
For those of you who are low end (ie cheap) thieves I'd add the following advice: make sure your ship has at least 6000 cargo. Why? Because when someone has an unanchored giant secure can, often he has two unanchered giant secure cans and its a pain to grab them one by one.
A question: anyone who runs EW ore thieves? I'm wondering if there are guys out there use jammers under the 'they can't hit me if they can't see me' theory.
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h3ff
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Posted - 2005.05.31 14:26:00 -
[20]
other things to note :-
a viator [gallente blocade runner] has loads of resistances and the ability to load a 10MN A/B with no other mods needed
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.31 16:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
And lose valuable cargo expander space? I think not.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.05.31 16:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Isn't it much more effective to fit armor plates? They give more HP for less powergrid cost.
And lose valuable cargo expander space? I think not.
Tenaj was talking about fitting an MWD anyways, and that requires low slots full of power diags.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Ashley Sky
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Posted - 2005.05.31 18:51:00 -
[23]
I fly an Occator transport ship to reclaim ore. For those of you with high aspirations, in my opinion, it is the one of the best ships for the advanced thief. I am always improving my setup. Here are my current configurations...
*** Configuration 1 (standard empire setup) ***
Hislot: no good ideas for this since there are no turret points. Possibly a prototype or improved cloak. Mid: 10mn micro-warp drive, named cargo scanner. Low: 4x Beta hull mods and local hull conversion 25 and 24% expanders. 2x nanofiber internals for speed and agility.
Stats: Top speed ~500m/s w 15,000m3 cargo (19,500 with giant secure containers) ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. Medium warp times. The scan resolution is awesome on the Occator so locks on cargo containers are more than 5 times faster than a standard hauler. Great for scanning.
*** Configuration 2 (speed)***
Low: 6x nanofiber internals
Stats: Top speed ~1500m/s w 6,500m3 cargo (8,300 with giant secures) ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. This setup is good for travelling. Fast warp times.
*** Configuration 3 (max cargo)***
Low: 6x named cargo expanders. 24-25%
Stats: Top speed ~190m/s w 27,500m3+ cargo (7 giant secures by default). I think with 27% expanders you could easily break the 30k barrier. ~6000hp total shields/armor/hull. Extremely slow acceleration and warp times.
*** Configuration 4 (Blockade Buster) ***
Highslot: Smartbomb Med: 10mn micro-warp drive, ECM Burst (to break tackler locks) Low: 6x warp core stabalizers
Stats: Top Speed ~900m/s w 6,500m3 cargo (8,300 with giants) ~10,000hp total shields/hull/armor.
If you are stealing ice, it's best to leave the giant secure containers at home and fit for a big gulp.
On the standard setup, It's rather invincible against standard suicide attacks in empire belts. It can easily tank a full run of torps from a raven. The only thing you really have to watch out for would be the suicide battleship fully loaded with smartbombs. 30 suicide kestrels moving in on me might also cause some worry, as would 10 caracals, or equivalents. If you see a BS without miners within 10km, time to move along.
So far, nobody has presented the skill or organization it would take to finish me off with this kind of setup, however a few brave pilots have tried. 
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Clementina
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Posted - 2005.06.01 11:56:00 -
[24]
About all that CPU that haulers have. Is there any way to derive use from it? Or will there always be tons of extra CPU on a hauler.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.01 22:44:00 -
[25]
There will usually be some extra. It's there so you can shield tank it or fit EW to supplement pirate frigates or operate in dangerous areas.
If you have extra midslots, fit cargo scanners. You can use em to scan the cargo holds of cans, which invalidates the tricks of dropping fake cans or emptying the can and leaving a "Kiss my bloody, cankerous d***" bookmark. That'll save you a 10km trip to the can.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.02 08:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
I thought about Huff much better. What do you know - ore thiefs.
I think you have the wrong idea about Huff.
You are what you take.
If someone has something you want, take it.
Ship full of nice mods - blow it up and take it.
Cargo can full of ore - take it.
Nice 0.0 region - take it.
What makes Huff different is our honesty and loyalty.
This doesn't hamper us too much though. As we don't have too many friends compared with the total population of Eve, we still have a target rich enviroment.
We are good to our word and true to our friends ... everyone else though? Well that's their problem.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.02 17:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 02/06/2005 17:44:56
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 02/06/2005 17:44:40
Originally by: Avon
I think you have the wrong idea about Huff.
You are what you take.
Thats exactly that I thought. Then ppl take ore from an open can in high sec its... well... It not like you fly in and take ore from BIG can in the middle of Fountain.
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Carter83
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Posted - 2005.06.05 00:43:00 -
[28]
You'd think if CCP really gave a **** they'd get rid of the jetcan having a cap of 270000000000blah (dont know the actual cap but its large enough to fit a frig) that jetted it in the first place.
Have timers on secure cans to prevent a clog up of cans in roid belts (omg an idea, shame ccp will neva see it in this post )
But i guess its all part of the food chain pvper's keep miners in bussiness and miners keep ore thieves from having to actually mine.
As far as corp thieving is concerned thats an exploit. even if a family member did it in RL you could still charge em for it. (yep, i used the Xploit word, so flame me ***** )
As always like piracy if it gets over the top people will vote with their feet and CCP will be more understanding. Til that day comes you are just gonna have to use those tiny "Giant" containers to fit those LARGE pieces of expensive ICE in.
And remember an ore thief is acceptable being abusive to one can get you in trouble with ccp.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.05 17:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Carter83
You'd think if CCP really gave a **** they'd get rid of the jetcan having a cap of 270000000000blah (dont know the actual cap but its large enough to fit a frig) that jetted it in the first place.
Have timers on secure cans to prevent a clog up of cans in roid belts (omg an idea, shame ccp will neva see it in this post )
But i guess its all part of the food chain pvper's keep miners in bussiness and miners keep ore thieves from having to actually mine.
As far as corp thieving is concerned thats an exploit. even if a family member did it in RL you could still charge em for it. (yep, i used the Xploit word, so flame me ***** )
As always like piracy if it gets over the top people will vote with their feet and CCP will be more understanding. Til that day comes you are just gonna have to use those tiny "Giant" containers to fit those LARGE pieces of expensive ICE in.
And remember an ore thief is acceptable being abusive to one can get you in trouble with ccp.
You could always lose the jet cans altogether and have to either mine into your hold (as was originally intended) or into secure cans, you know.
It's really hard to call something an exploit of the game mechanics when it's actually listed as a career in EVE on the EVE FAQ.
Exploit means abusing the game mechanics in a way that was not only not intended by CCP (including jet can mining), but disrupts the game altogether (which, with jet can mining, is kept in check by ore thieves).
Exploiting other people isn't an exploit. Exploiting other people is the very foundation of EVE, not happy huggy FFXI teamwork. Teamwork just happens on accident.
SO here's your flame.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.06 01:51:00 -
[30]
its not easy is it Corvus.
your calling jet can mining an exploit while sactioning ore theft from the same can's you say is an exploit.
well taking advantage of an exploit is an exploit.
if someone print money and you steal it and use it, your not working to prevent the person from becomming rich, your still a criminal.
you can not make the fundation illegal and then saction what comes out of whats illegal.
in my book ore theft is just fine, but as long its done without reactions from those that are supposed to keep law and order in place its not.
if you remove jetting you remove ore theft all the way, they could not even steal anything not even in 0.4 and lower because only anchored cans would be possible.
ore theft dont help on any situation, it only make the lazy or the rich main even richer, stealing from a miner in 0.9 or 1.0 wont make him move to 0.0 to get tritanium no it will only make them stay even longer in 0.9 or 1.0 space.
while there is a few people that actually have made a profession out of stealing ore, most of them are doing just to have a chance to get on peoples nerves, the more anfry them make people the more satisfaction they get from the game.
But then again Corvus, in this thread you favor the ore thieves in the next your against them, the only thing certain is that you do not agree with the last poster.
so what are they? ore thieves, criminals? or Carebears?
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