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Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
   |
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
The best and only way to nerf highsec is to reduce the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots and make refining something that takes time.
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW, so don't shout "go back to null and leave us alone".
Mission payments are fine, the problem is that highsec industry is so saturated that prices are down to dirt cheap levels.
I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules.
Yup, that's really smart!
If there is less competition, you are limiting supply and increasing demand, hence the prices will go up, so the mission rewards wouldn't be a problem.
This will also drive industrialists into low sec and null sec, to either set up a PoS there to manufacture and refine minerals or join up an alliance or just use a nearby station.
And make it so you can't have 99.99% mineral yield for miners, make it max of 75% in high sec. 87% in low sec and 99.99% in null sec.
And now we go to null sec:
When you fix PoS's make sure to:
A. limit some types of PoS's to low and null sec, or else we're at square one
B. make it so the limited PoS's will yield better results with industry
C. Improve the PoS production and refining stuff
There, I just fixed high sec.
Was it that hard?
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spot the Null Alt!!!!! (in before anyone else)
Anyway, being more serious, as I said in the other thread, fix null sec industry first so it can actually be done. With ZERO changes to high sec while this is done.
Then worry about if any High Sec changes or tweaks need doing.
P.S. With your changes, you just killed Eve, because no-one would ever do industry in high sec. Eve dies other than the Null blobs pretty fast like that. |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
172
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nerf idiots. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
You are welcome to figure out who my alt is.
P.S
You will never find him because this is my only character.
High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited.
You may set up a PoS (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
celebro
Confederate States of Eve
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
celebro wrote:No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.
It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Robertina Bering
Local resources exhausted
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your nickname tells everything about you 
|
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Robertina Bering wrote:Your nickname tells everything about you
Actually, I chose it because I troll my cats, no other reason.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:I'm a high sec industrialist BTW
No, you are not.
Go adapt!
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Cat Troll wrote:I'm a high sec industrialist BTW No, you are not. Go adapt!
Please look at my killboard and tell me I live anywhere other than high sec.
I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it.
I firmly believe that low sec and null sec need a buff and high sec needs a nerf.
When I think of going to low sec, my first thought is... what's the point?
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
celebro
Confederate States of Eve
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative.
It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
celebro wrote:Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there.
I see your point so I added a little extra to my post.
Would that be fine?
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
 You know what opinions are like right?
Good to know you have one instead of just being one.
Oh....and Merry Christmas. |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
89
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
the less competition you are talking about would be players who would quit the game rather than deal with nerfed industry potential
i said in one of the previous threads that i suspect the majority of high sec players are casuals who dont make enough money because they dont have a lot of time to play - yet they play the game because their skills are going up even if they are not playing
nerfing high sec wouldnt make them play more or move to low sec,it would make them quit
if you could make sure high sec dwellers wont quit the game then you got a point,however i dont know how (or if) it can be done |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Randolph Rothstein wrote:the less competition you are talking about would be players who would quit the game rather than deal with nerfed industry potential
i said in one of the previous threads that i suspect the majority of high sec players are casuals who dont make enough money because they dont have a lot of time to play - yet they play the game because their skills are going up even if they are not playing
nerfing high sec wouldnt make them play more or move to low sec,it would make them quit
if you could make sure high sec dwellers wont quit the game then you got a point,however i dont know how (or if) it can be done
Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:You know what opinions are like right? Good to know you have one instead of just being one. Oh....and Merry Christmas.
Incase you didn't notice, if you can prove this idea is bad then just say why it is, and I will try to fix it if I see your point.
Like I did before.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
celebro
Confederate States of Eve
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there. I see your point so I added a little extra to my post. Would that be fine?
There already is an under supply of veldspar in null sec, removing it will actually buff high sec and make it even more lucrative to mine in safe regions.
My idea of balance in a nutshell:
Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.
High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
celebro wrote:Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:Cat Troll wrote:celebro wrote:No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there. I see your point so I added a little extra to my post. Would that be fine? There already is an under supply of veldspar in null sec, removing it will actually buff high sec and make it even more lucrative to mine in safe regions. My idea of balance in a nutshell: Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc. High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.
Do you mind if I copy what you said to my post?
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
89
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:
Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.
the prices will go up aaaaand also the mineral prices will go up because less minerals would be available,the profit margin wont change
you know who would actually benefit from this change? miners and botters - well done  - so you d not only need to nerf high sec but also overhaul mining and ores unless ofc you want tritanium at 10 isk per unit which would **** of mission runners and pvpers who would complain that they get more money afk mining which would cause another overhaul of pvp and mission rewards and incursions and at this point half of your playerbase would be just fcking tired of all the changes and unstable gameplay environment and they would just started playing something less turbulent
|
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:
Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.
the prices will go up aaaaand also the mineral prices will go up because less minerals would be available,the profit margin wont change you know who would actually benefit from this change? miners and botters - well done - so you d not only need to nerf high sec but also overhaul mining and ores unless ofc you want tritanium at 10 isk per unit which would **** of mission runners and pvpers who would complain that they get more money afk mining which would cause another overhaul of pvp and mission rewards and incursions and at this point half of your playerbase would be just fcking tired of all the changes and unstable gameplay environment and they would just started playing something less turbulent
Nice assumption.
Now let me give you the real story:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
A single level 4 mission nets you 20 million ISK at minimum, and they take less than an hour.
So you wild dreams of people making billions from AFK mining isn't true.
Now face the corner and think about what you've said.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
celebro
Confederate States of Eve
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't mind cat troll.
Balancing changes, nerfs in particular are always a hard choice for developers, if you are not sure what you are doing could just create more imbalances in the chain. Remember for any changes need to predict human behaviour, that's really hard to accomplish, you are mostly going to get it wrong. |
Hilmar Fudd
Wery Wascally Wabbits
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 10:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
This is bad....wery, wery bad.
Buff wabbits. Wabbits are compwetely ignored, except for dem Guwista's bunnies.
Who cares about twitanium? Can u eat twit?
Moar wabbits pwease. |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
89
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 11:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec
2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best
3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever
you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers
i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom
well done troll,you got me
/thread
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
801
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 11:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Nerf idiots.
It was being nerfed that made me an idiot in the first place.
If I get nerfed any more I will have the ability to enjoy mining.
This is not a signature. |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 11:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread
Haha no.
I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining.
You know what's the best ISK/hour?
Scordite, veldspar right behind it.
Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining
And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours.
"you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers"
Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****.
Call troll all you want, its not true.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
303
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 11:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
When CCP is going to redesign pos they should just remove all manufacturing, research and refining from npc stations, and make it a service players can sell to other players.
Maybe go back to some system like the old pos fuel, where the fuel price increase depending on how many modules are installed in the pos. While being a logistic nightmare, it would increase the price of industry and research.
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 12:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread Haha no. I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining. You know what's the best ISK/hour? Scordite, veldspar right behind it. Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours. "you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers" Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****. Call troll all you want, its not true.
i dont know where do you get those figures from - probably as u used to mine in the past?
things have changed,your figures are wrong
the only thing you are right about is scordite and thats only after i corrected you
whatever dude you live in the past,your figures are outdated,i suggest you do some math before you talk BS,i know ignorance is a bliss but not here
|
Cat Troll
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 12:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread Haha no. I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining. You know what's the best ISK/hour? Scordite, veldspar right behind it. Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours. "you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers" Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****. Call troll all you want, its not true. i dont know where do you get those figures from - probably as u used to mine in the past? things have changed,your figures are wrong the only thing you are right about is scordite and thats only after i corrected you whatever dude you live in the past,your figures are outdated,i suggest you do some math before you talk BS,i know ignorance is a bliss but not here
I was mining during the Inferno update.
So unless mining got completly overhauled during Retribution, my figures are right.
Lolwut:
"Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 12:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:Randolph Rothstein wrote:Cat Troll wrote:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread Haha no. I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining. You know what's the best ISK/hour? Scordite, veldspar right behind it. Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours. "you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers" Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****. Call troll all you want, its not true. i dont know where do you get those figures from - probably as u used to mine in the past? things have changed,your figures are wrong the only thing you are right about is scordite and thats only after i corrected you whatever dude you live in the past,your figures are outdated,i suggest you do some math before you talk BS,i know ignorance is a bliss but not here I was mining during the Inferno update. So unless mining got completly overhauled during Retribution, my figures are right.
they are wrong
i can currently fill a retriever (24200m) in 28 minutes
now mind you my skills arent anywhere near perfect,no lvl 5 skills and i use strip miners I
so with perfect skills + drones + crystals i guess you could fill a retriever in around 21 minutes,by my calculations that would make AT LEAST 15M isk per hour
|
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
261
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 12:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Troll wrote:
I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it.
So, the proposition is that they should buff your circumstance relative to NPC stations "for the good of the game"?
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
845
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 12:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
And why not make the outposts as good as the high sec stations in term of slots and refine rate(you know add some upgrades). |
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