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The Apostle The Black Priests 204	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:33:00 - [1] - Quote So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Kehro Urgus Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:38:00 - [2] - Quote Lose a hulk recently?
Jovan Geldon Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire 37	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:39:00 - [3] - Quote Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it.
gfldex 7	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:42:00 - [4] - Quote I would bet it's "maliciously". How can it be bad to explode internet spaceships in a internet spaceship pvp game? Anyway, if you want an answer to your question you need to file a petition. In contrast to popular believe, the forum will only get you attention, not knowledge.
The Apostle The Black Priests 204	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:53:00 - [5] - Quote Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. Firstly, no lost Hulks. Wouldn't complain if I did. Be my own fault. And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. The whole "bot kills" and "commodity throttling" is all smoke and mirrors for consistent and malicious bully-boy behaviour. This "campaign" is not random shoots and corp kills - it is a VERY deliberate and co-ordinated approach that is interfering with the play of others. For mine, if what the G**N's are doing is NOT deemed griefing then NOTHING in game can be called griefing - ever. I'm just after a clear definition of the rule. I see it as a topic for debate. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
EnderCapitalG GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 117	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:10:00 - [6] - Quote So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing?
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 98	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:14:00 - [7] - Quote Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. This. Killing ice-miners is being done with an economic agenda in mind (that dude will say otherwise, but he lie) Which is different from killing someone over and over just to annoy that particular person. Ain't nothing but business xD Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 356	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:14:00 - [8] - Quote What the goons are doing is denial of assets. They are picking on ice miners in general. If they started a campaign against one specific miner, an argument could be made for griefing... maybe. But, as repugnant as it is for most right thinking gamers, it's well within the rules to do what they are doing. Mr Epeen If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet.
Kengutsi Akira 20	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:14:00 - [9] - Quote The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? Working as intended. Just as on the forums, and as it was for BoB before them, the rules do not apply to Goons. Look around at how often they get moderated here for things such as trolling as in never lol tho; good try
The Apostle The Black Priests 204	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:15:00 - [10] - Quote EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!

Kengutsi Akira 20	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:17:00 - [11] - Quote Renan Ruivo wrote: Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. This. Killing ice-miners is being done with an economic agenda in mind (that dude will say otherwise, but he lie) Which is different from killing someone over and over just to annoy that particular person. Ain't nothing but business xD Theres your camoflage. Its how Hulkageddon wasnt griefing because it was to "control the bot population" Which was bullshit but still If you think theres an issue, petition it. then you can ask yourself. It only took me like an hour or so to get an answer lol The GMs in this game are amazing at shutting their eyes when they want to Or pretending they dont know whats going on
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 336	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:31:00 - [12] - Quote The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. Quote: For mine, if what the G*N's are doing is NOT deemed griefing then NOTHING in game can be called griefing - ever. There are plenty of things that can be considered griefing GÇö the goon campaigns never qualify due to their very broad scope and speculative effects. They target activities* and possibly locations, not people, much less individuals. They're just causing general havoc (or wellGÇª trying to, at least) and having fun (and profit) in the process, all of which is entirely legal. In fact, one might even say that they're playing EVE in its purest form. Quote: I'm just after a clear definition of the rule. I see it as a topic for debate. It is pretty clear as it is. You're just not fully in tune with what counts as malicious around here. Continuously deccing, ganking, camping, abusing and harassing a single person for no reason is griefing GÇö going after anyone who does/flies/lives in X is not. They're not being targeted specifically, and can simply do/fly/live something or somewhere else. Taking advantage of quirks in various mechanics to prey on people who have not yet had the chance to grasp those mechanics (aka newbie griefing) is griefing GÇö going after people who have come so far as to sit in T2 ships and mine and refine a complicated resource such as ice is not. Causing server overloads (or even crashes) so other people can't even get in the game, or have trouble loading it, for what almost amounts to hardware reasons could conceivably be considered griefing, but that is covered by a whole slew of other rules as well and isn't particularly relevant here anyway. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Kengutsi Akira 21	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:39:00 - [13] - Quote Tippia wrote: The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. How precisely would you do that... Hack their Info, get their address and go break their computer? Imo this is a side effect of goons helping 0.0 be taken over. Less open territory = less conflict = more boredom. Id assume there to be more of these type things in the future as they get more and more bored, especially once 0.0 is completely under the massive alliance's thumb.
EnderCapitalG GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 117	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:47:00 - [14] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Tippia wrote: The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. How precisely would you do that... Hack their Info, get their address and go break their computer? Imo this is a side effect of goons helping 0.0 be taken over. Less open territory = less conflict = more boredom. Id assume there to be more of these type things in the future as they get more and more bored, especially once 0.0 is completely under the massive alliance's thumb. I'd really blame game mechanics on that one. Also, the best part is just about anyone is using their alts to do the ganking while they leave their main accounts down in Delve where we're still fighting, so it's not like we're even 100% concentrating on the highsec stuff in the first place.
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:48:00 - [15] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: If you think theres an issue, petition it. then you can ask yourself. ^^ EnderCapitalG wrote: Also, the best part is just about anyone is using their alts to do the ganking Just make sure you dont recycle them, that actually has been called an exploit in the past, though if you guys do it Im sure it wont be. "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 457	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:51:00 - [16] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. Firstly, no lost Hulks. Wouldn't complain if I did. Be my own fault. And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. They are in EVE. There is long standing precedent for this: if you can demonstrate that you have a reasonable in-game motive for what you're doing, then it doesn't matter if it makes the victim abloobloohoo into his coffee all day long. Goons can credibly claim to be trying to corner the Gallente ice products market to their own advantage. Case dismissed. In case you haven't noticed, EVE does in fact allow non-consensual PvP. If campaigns were to be forbidden purely because the losing side was :sadface: about it, then no 0.0 war could ever happen. All that's happening here is that some people in hi-sec are getting a taste - a very, very mild, attenuated taste - of what it's like to fight an actual campaign in EVE. I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. The rules of hi-sec are the same as they always were: nothing has changed, no rules are being broken. They're merely being applied in an organised, systematic way. The only thing that has changed is that these people have been left to endlessly make risk-free ISK for so long that they think it's not just normal but something they're entitled to. You consent to PvP when you undock your ships, whether you accept this or not. All the fuss is merely the startling realisation that this applies to ice-miners as much as it does to anyone else. There is no entitlement to safety. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 457	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:53:00 - [17] - Quote dp Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:56:00 - [18] - Quote Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 98	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:58:00 - [19] - Quote Malcanis wrote: dp Double penetration? EVE Stig wrote: Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? I think it would be fun if 0.0 was in the middle and high-sec on the border. So if high-sec people want to get to the other side they either have to cross 0.0 or go all the way around. But meh... too many issues with that Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand.
Kengutsi Akira 21	Posted - 2011.10.08 04:59:00 - [20] - Quote Imo, there really shouldnt BE a griefing policy in this game as its nearly impossible to enforce

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 336	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:00:00 - [21] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: How precisely would you do that... Hack their Info, get their address and go break their computer? Put them on your notification list, map out their jump clones, and make sure that they cannot leave the stations they're in; barrage them with invites until they block you; ruin their market orders and contracts if they stay in stationGÇª GÇªand generally make sure that there is no point in their logging in because they cannot get anything done. At that point, we're talking about griefing. Before that, it's just EVE. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:01:00 - [22] - Quote Tippia wrote: The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? What I am seeing is a lot of "single person" references in the replies and we're really down to thumbtacks here. It's a specific type of player in a specific area. It is consistent in that those players who might "normally" fly said ship in said area are being denied the right/ability to do so. Sure they could go do "something else" but so could anyone else being "griefed"... More to the point is that a single very large, very financial 0.0 enitity can remove the entire spirit of the "relative safety of empire" (I'll accept the finger smacking on this point) for a gain that is described as "economic" when it's fair to say they just want shitz and gigglez. This is NOT a G**N bash by any means but please take into account that NO other alliance/coalition practices this behaviour. Tolerated by CCP it may be but by my definition, this unadulterated bullying needs to be reigned in. I'm not asking for "fair" (it's Eve) but there is simply no counter. And when there is no counter - it's a poor game mechanic. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Kengutsi Akira 21	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:02:00 - [23] - Quote Tippia wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: How precisely would you do that... Hack their Info, get their address and go break their computer? Put them on your notification list, map out their jump clones, and make sure that they cannot leave the stations they're in; barrage them with invites until they block you; ruin their market orders and contracts if they stay in stationGÇª GÇªand generally make sure that there is no point in their logging in because they cannot get anything done. At that point, we're talking about griefing. Before that, it's just EVE. Thank you for proving my point in my last post. What the hells the point of a griefing rule you cant/DONT WANT TO enforce? Honestly, get rid of it, its crap. Like the forum role against trolling, "respect each other" or whatever that one is or personal attacks. lol um... why to you self-censor Goon?
Dirk Magnum Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 14	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:08:00 - [24] - Quote CCP have had years and years to declare the suicidal targeting of barges to be griefing, and haven't. Many Hulkageddons come and go and still not a negative word about it from CCP. The Ice Interdiction is easily in keeping with the finest traditions of tear farming in Eve, and in no way counts as griefing under any standard thus far established. If you want to mine ice, go to another region. If you want to mine Blue Ice specifically, stay vigilant in the belts as you do so. There is no reason you have to die to the Goons during their asset denial exercise. If you get destroyed, it's because you weren't paying attention. Is it griefing to bubble someone AFK AP'ing through nullsec?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 457	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:20:00 - [25] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Tippia wrote: The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? What I am seeing is a lot of "single person" references in the replies and we're really down to thumbtacks here. It's a specific type of player in a specific area. It is consistent in that those players who might "normally" fly said ship in said area are being denied the right/ability to do so. Sure they could go do "something else" but so could anyone else being "griefed"... More to the point is that a single very large, very financial 0.0 enitity can remove the entire spirit of the "relative safety of empire" (I'll accept the finger smacking on this point) for a gain that is described as "economic" when it's fair to say they just want shitz and gigglez. This is NOT a G**N bash by any means but please take into account that NO other alliance/coalition practices this behaviour. Tolerated by CCP it may be but by my definition, this unadulterated bullying needs to be reigned in. I'm not asking for "fair" (it's Eve) but there is simply no counter. And when there is no counter - it's a poor game mechanic. When the victims can "counter" simply by mining ice in Caldari space instead, or mining asteroids instead, or doing something else than mining, it's evidently false to claim that they have no recourse or in-game alternatives. No specific person is being targetted, only the general class of people engaging in a specific activity. This is the polar opposite of "griefing". It's just an in-game campaign conducted within the rules for a defined and reasonable objective. Simply because the perpatrators happen to be hugely enjoying the process isn't a reason to stop it. How exactly does this campaign differ from one alliance attacking another less powerful in 0.0? Why is one "griefing" whilst the other is normal gameplay? The goons have done what any 0.0 alliance might do: they have identified a group weaker than themselves who they can extract a profit from by applying force. Tech moons, ratting space, crokite belts... gallente ice products. The fact that the target group happens to be in hi-sec seems to be the only difference here. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 337	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:25:00 - [26] - Quote The Apostle wrote: I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? In the first case, no, there is no line between the two GÇö they're pretty much the same: when it is no longer about in-game gain, and all about making the other guy not want to play. As for the second, unless the GÇ£bandGÇ¥ is a real-world, immutable and unalterable attribute, never. It's about individuals, not groups. In fact, in those cases where it might conceivably be considered group-based, it falls under the umbrella of GÇ£hate speechGÇ¥ rather than griefing. Quote: What I am seeing is a lot of "single person" references in the replies and we're really down to thumbtacks here. It's a specific type of player in a specific area. GÇªwhich means it's as far from a single person as it gets. It has nothing to do with the person, but with a location and an activity. The goons have zero control over what single persons choose to be part of the targeted demographic. At this point, someone will undoubtedly chime in with the bone-headed GÇ£oh, you think rapist victims choose it tooGÇ¥ analogy, so let's just head that one off immediately: no, this is not like being the victim of a violent crime. It's like dressing yourself up in a raw-meat suit and run around on the savannah and then complain when you get mauled by lions: you know the lions are there, you know they really like meat, you know they maul weak and meaty things they come across, and thus any idiot can conclude that meat is unsuitable attire for savannah-running (and for extra measure, the lions themselves have been kind enough to put up big neon signs saying GÇ£numpties in meat suits, beware: we will eat youGÇ¥). So it's really your (very very poor) choice if you decide to do that anywayGÇª Quote: More to the point is that a single very large, very financial 0.0 enitity can remove the entire spirit of the "relative safety of empire" (I'll accept the finger smacking on this point) for a gain that is described as "economic" when it's fair to say they just want shitz and gigglez. Smack There is no relative safety! (sorry, had to be doneGÇª ). Yes? So? As Malc points out, all they're doing is reminding these highsec players that highsec is not safe; that you need to be wary of other players; that they're in a non-consensual full-PvP sandbox where everyone is free to do what they want, including blow people up for using umlauts in local chat. Quote: Tolerated by CCP it may be but by my definition, this unadulterated bullying needs to be reigned in. I'm not asking for "fair" (it's Eve) but there is simply no counter. There is: don't fly an ice-mining ship in the affected systems. Or, if you absolutely, positively, really really really have to (to which I say really? expand your horizons guysGÇª ), take the prerequisite precautions of tanking up, flying defensively, and gather intel. Welcome to the bighighschool league, boys. Kengutsi Akira wrote: Thank you for proving my point in my last post. What the hells the point of a griefing rule you cant/DONT WANT TO enforce? Aside from the fact that they can, want, and actually do enforce itGÇª GÇªthe point is that it's good to be clear that you don't accept griefing. And yes, there is griefing in EVE GÇö it's just not same activity as many highsec dwellers have dreamed out of on their unwarranted feelings of entitlement. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 124	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:32:00 - [27] - Quote Look at people crying about nonconsensual PvP
Kengutsi Akira 21	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:35:00 - [28] - Quote Tippia wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Thank you for proving my point in my last post. What the hells the point of a griefing rule you cant/DONT WANT TO enforce? Aside from the fact that they can, want, and actually do enforce itGÇª Really... when? Ive yet to see that actually happen. Kinda like how they dont seem to moderate Goons or CSM for that matter. Id join just for that honestly
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 457	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:36:00 - [29] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Tippia wrote: Kengutsi Akira wrote: Thank you for proving my point in my last post. What the hells the point of a griefing rule you cant/DONT WANT TO enforce? Aside from the fact that they can, want, and actually do enforce itGÇª Really... when? Ive yet to see that actually happen. Kinda like how they dont seem to moderate Goons or CSM for that matter. Id join just for that honestly Havve you ever been griefed in EVE? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:42:00 - [30] - Quote dont want to die, don't go to those systems to ice mine... its not like they are tracking down specific players.... that is griefing, not killing ice miners.

The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:45:00 - [31] - Quote Andski wrote: Look at people crying about nonconsensual PvP Who said anything about nonconsenual PvP? It's not "PvP" in the true sense of the word anyway? But it's not the topic at hand. My question is WHY (and more importantly HOW) a very large, very financial alliance/coalition can bring their 0.0 might and assets into empire and target a specific type of player. imho, it's not for economics, that's easily refuted. It may well be of strategic value, easily routed in time also. So is the tactic one of simply griefing empire? If so, should it be allowed in THIS form. TL;DR Yes, we've established that it IS allowed under current mechanics. My question: Should it be? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Richard Hammond II Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:49:00 - [32] - Quote Yes. If its not one character being griefed its A OK by CCP Did a Goon really just agree it was bad game mechanics?? They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP
Puppet Mas'ter GloboTech Industries 20	Posted - 2011.10.08 05:53:00 - [33] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? I endorse this idea. Maybe Mittens can pull it off when all of 0.0 is one alliance CCP: Madness!!! This is FiS Us: Fis? chuckle (Gò»-¦Gûí-¦n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Us: THIS IS EVE
baltec1 83	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:19:00 - [34] - Quote The Apostle wrote: EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Go into amarr, caldari and winmatar space and count the number or ice belts that are under attack by goons.
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:23:00 - [35] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The Apostle wrote: EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Go into amarr, caldari and winmatar space and count the number or ice belts that are under attack by goons. as I understand it the reason for this is theyre destabilizing the economy and from what I hear they own most of the 0.0 gallente ice or something like that. But then if you listen to them they dont mine But then if you listen to them youre crazy lol "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
John DaiSho Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:26:00 - [36] - Quote This whole "Fking GNs are killing mah ice miner!!!11" stuff is awesome xD I dont trade with isotopes or macks or anything related to this, i just get to know about it in the forums. And its hilarious. Keep up with the good stuff \o/
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:39:00 - [37] - Quote Puppet Mas'ter wrote: EVE Stig wrote: Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? I endorse this idea. Maybe Mittens can pull it off when all of 0.0 is one alliance Strangely enough, you have both added to why I am concerned that there is no way to prevent this. If GN's can do it now (regardless of how poorly executed it is), what IS to stop 0.0 alliances stomping empire into wrecks? No precedent is being (or likely to be) set insofar as establishing a ruling on it. And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se. If it were (as many claim it is/should be) then there would be no need for Concord and no sec status hits for aggression. There is no cry for "safety" here, just a precautionary note as to lack of action against Empire stomping. If it is allowed (and encouraged) at n degree when do we decalare it has become m degree and intolerable? When it's NOT GN's doing it? What if all of 0.0 did decide to "muscle up"? Is it still acceptable if not even a single empire player could effectively play anywhere!? It's fine to say CCP has spoken, but if so, why do we need sov chages, cap nerfs, ad infinitum when 0.0 residents say so? They scream broken mechanics and tickety boo, it's fixed. I'm wearing an empire advocate hat and I'm asking that we need CCP to put in place measures to PREVENT Empire stomping by 0.0 alliances. A precedent needs to be set and this current "op" is a great example. The intent of Empire is NOT to smash everyone and everything into the ground. But it's happening and there is nothing to prevent it happening on a much larger scale. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 458	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:52:00 - [38] - Quote The Apostle wrote: And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se... Says who? Using your own argument, if non consensual PvP wasn't "supposed" to happen in hi-sec, we wouldn't be able to do it at all. It would have been hugely simpler for CCP to simply make us unable to lock each other in Empire than faff about with all this CONCORD stuff. This supposition that Empire is "supposed" to be safe has come about purely because it has been a few years since any group has made the effort to demonstrate that it isn't. People can make massive fortunes in Empire. It's not a ~specialrules~ newbie starting area. (The new player spawning systems have a couple of special rules about can baiting and such but that's all). I'll try and restate The very, very obvious in words of one syllable, so that you can't possibly fail to understand: YOUR. SHIP. IS. AT. RISK. AS. SOON. AS. YOU. CLICK. UN. DOCK. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 458	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:54:00 - [39] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: baltec1 wrote: The Apostle wrote: EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Go into amarr, caldari and winmatar space and count the number or ice belts that are under attack by goons. as I understand it the reason for this is theyre destabilizing the economy and from what I hear they own most of the 0.0 gallente ice or something like that. But then if you listen to them they dont mine But then if you listen to them youre crazy lol They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:54:00 - [40] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The Apostle wrote: EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Go into amarr, caldari and winmatar space and count the number or ice belts that are under attack by goons. That's not my argument. It's the fact they COULD that is at issue. 10-20k of 0.0'ers could effectively bring Empire to it's knees. If CCP won't stop (or even blink) at 2 or 3 major alliances and Gallente ice, when would they? A total blockade on ice could be a serious setback to Empire. Would it have to be determined as being detrimental to game if it remained in force indefintely? This op is effectively a salami slice and quickly (and far too easily) disregarded. What happens if it becomes the whole shebang? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!

Chopper Rollins Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:57:00 - [41] - Quote SILENCE ALL OF YOU! If you listen carefully, you can hear someone reading a petition, typing a cookie-cutter response, then logging on and undocking his suicide alt to kill another Mackinaw there I said it.
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:00:00 - [42] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The Apostle wrote: And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se... Says who? Using your own argument, if non consensual PvP wasn't "supposed" to happen in hi-sec, we wouldn't be able to do it at all. It would have been hugely simpler for CCP to simply make us unable to lock each other in Empire than faff about with all this CONCORD stuff. This supposition that Empire is "supposed" to be safe has come about purely because it has been a few years since any group has made the effort to demonstrate that it isn't. People can make massive fortunes in Empire. It's not a ~specialrules~ newbie starting area. (The new player spawning systems have a couple of special rules about can baiting and such but that's all). I'll try and restate The very, very obvious in words of one syllable, so that you can't possibly fail to understand: YOUR. SHIP. IS. AT. RISK. AS. SOON. AS. YOU. CLICK. UN. DOCK. For the 10th time - I am not arguing "consensual PvP". Let me make this clear - YOU DO NOT ACTUALLY NEED TO BLOW UP SHIPS TO STOMP EMPIRE. Have we got that bit yet? The simple threat of and/or active blockading can easily prevent anything/everything in game from being done without killing a single ship. Consensual or otherwise! It's the ability of massive NON empire alliances to do so that is the concern. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 458	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:01:00 - [43] - Quote The Apostle wrote: TL;DR Yes, we've established that it IS allowed under current mechanics. My question: Should it be? Of course. Why should players in hi-sec be immune to organised violence? They sell products for the same ISK, they're competing in the same game, on the same shard, in an MMO that's explicitly and openly advertised as dark, cut-throat and ruthless. They get a compelling advantage in that anyone who attacks them will lose their ship, regardless of any other outcome. They're not "helpless" vs the goon campaign, it's just that they've been able to operate in a selfish, disorganised, inattentive way up until now because no organised group has had sufficient motivation to bother trying to overcame that huge inbuilt advantage they get from CONCORD protection. What the complaining about is nothing more than "Circumstances have changed and I will suffer a disadvantage unless I adapt the way I play". Option 1: whine and cry for mommy CCP to bend the rules even further Option 2: organise, co-operate, adapt, survive, prevail. Since everyone knows that goons are shrieking brain-damaged baboons with the attention span of a mayfly on meth, I'm sure it shouldn't prove a problem for the intelligent, thoughtful, mature and well-adjusted inhabitants of hi-sec to out-think and out-organise them. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 458	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:07:00 - [44] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: The Apostle wrote: And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se... Says who? Using your own argument, if non consensual PvP wasn't "supposed" to happen in hi-sec, we wouldn't be able to do it at all. It would have been hugely simpler for CCP to simply make us unable to lock each other in Empire than faff about with all this CONCORD stuff. This supposition that Empire is "supposed" to be safe has come about purely because it has been a few years since any group has made the effort to demonstrate that it isn't. People can make massive fortunes in Empire. It's not a ~specialrules~ newbie starting area. (The new player spawning systems have a couple of special rules about can baiting and such but that's all). I'll try and restate The very, very obvious in words of one syllable, so that you can't possibly fail to understand: YOUR. SHIP. IS. AT. RISK. AS. SOON. AS. YOU. CLICK. UN. DOCK. For the 10th time - I am not arguing "consensual PvP". Let me make this clear - YOU DO NOT ACTUALLY NEED TO BLOW UP SHIPS TO STOMP EMPIRE. Have we got that bit yet? The simple threat of and/or active blockading can easily prevent anything/everything in game from being done without killing a single ship. Consensual or otherwise! It's the ability of massive NON empire alliances to do so that is the concern. And again, why is this more of a problem than the same thing happening in 0.0? Are hi-sec players special people who are entitled to make ISK forever with no risk? If my alliance is fighting another alliance, would you have a problem with us attempting to deny that alliance the use of their anomalies and moons? If we discover that they're importing ships via jump freighters, would we be entitled to suicide gank those freighters in hi-sec? If we discover that they have an alt corp that mines ice in hi-sec to fuel their supers and POS, would we be entitled to gank that corp? If we discover that they're buying ice products from a group of miners in an NPC corp working together to supply a contract to the alliance I'm fighting, would we be entitled to gank those NPC corp guys? At what point does the chain of involvement stop? Answer: it doesn't. If I can derive sufficient advantage from suicide ganking someone in empire to bother doing so then it is ipso facto justifiable for me to do so. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:11:00 - [45] - Quote Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Firstly, the GN's campaign would have cost 100's of millions, if not billions of isk. The amount of ice needed to be sold to get that back would be staggering. Secondly, 0.0 POS holders will simply change towers. Sure Gallente towers have moongoo bonuses but it just means more work in the short term. Last 0.0 corp I was in we had 3 months supply on hand. Minor blip. Thus no immediate or short term market for Gallente ice. (most price changes have been speculators) Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Other reasons? Restricting Oxy using cap fuels may have a strategic effect but only if the GN's campaign was sustained for the long term AND they had a view to invade someone. Both is unlikely. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Fix Lag 68	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:13:00 - [46] - Quote Oh my god the tears in this thread are more delicious than the Jimmy John's I just had Also, who the hell are these "GNs" you keep mentioning? I don't know of anyone called a GN. Most people just add a (DOT) at the end of their alliance name to sound cool, you see.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 458	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:14:00 - [47] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Argument from personal ignorance is rarely persausive. There's a reason people use Gallente towers. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:15:00 - [48] - Quote Malcanis wrote: And again, why is this more of a problem than the same thing happening in 0.0? Are hi-sec players special people who are entitled to make ISK forever with no risk? Stop wrapping Empire and 0.0 into the same fold. Empire IS different, has different rules and different players - it also has different motivations. And since when has this been about empire players making isk? Where'd that come from?? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:17:00 - [49] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Argument from personal ignorance is rarely persausive. There's a reason people use Gallente towers. Read my post AGAIN. I said as much. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 368	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:18:00 - [50] - Quote The Apostle wrote: I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? I've found your problem, buttercup - it's not your job to define it, it's CCP's job GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki

The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:21:00 - [51] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: The Apostle wrote: I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? I've found your problem, buttercup - it's not your job to define it, it's CCP's job I could find 1000 posts on where CCP has been "wrong" by player complaint/questioning and changes have been brought about as a result. True story bro and mostly to do with 0.0. It's never from Empire because most Empire guys are too lazy or disorganised to do anything. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Fix Lag 68	Posted - 2011.10.08 07:26:00 - [52] - Quote I'm willing to sell the OP some lube for the next time he loses a mackinaw for the low, low price of 500 million ISK.
Basileus Volkan Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2011.10.08 08:02:00 - [53] - Quote http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wr8_depeche-mode-people-are-people_music
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 459	Posted - 2011.10.08 08:25:00 - [54] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: And again, why is this more of a problem than the same thing happening in 0.0? Are hi-sec players special people who are entitled to make ISK forever with no risk? Stop wrapping Empire and 0.0 into the same fold. Empire IS different, has different rules and different players - it also has different motivations. Ah, so you're saying that Empire players should be privileged? Well yessuh massah Apostle suh, I'll just sit at de back of de bus and leave you hi-sec massahs in peace. Is there a water fountain for de null-sec folks? I don' want to be using de massah's fountain. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mr MaltaProject inFluX. 6	Posted - 2011.10.08 08:27:00 - [55] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3AY1zTzaE&feature=related just sayin
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 342	Posted - 2011.10.08 09:20:00 - [56] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Who said anything about nonconsenual PvP? It's not "PvP" in the true sense of the word anyway? Of course it's PvP. One player or group of players opposes a different player or group of players. The first group wants to stop the second group from providing oxytopes to the market, and does so through any means available, including killing their ships. It's pretty much every type of PvP in EVE rolled into one. Quote: My question is WHY (and more importantly HOW) a very large, very financial alliance/coalition can bring their 0.0 might and assets into empire and target a specific type of player. For one, they're not targeting one specific type of player GÇö again, the player has nothing to do with this. They're targeting one specific part of the production chain, and a part that is pretty important for a whole slew of other activities. They are allowed to do this (and must be allowed to do it) because this part of the production chain has huge implications on all facets of EVE, most notably nullsec. In fact, everything has implications of all facets of EVE, which is why it is a horribly bad idea to try to section off one type of space from the rest for some arbitrary reason. Quote: imho, it's not for economics, that's easily refuted. Go ahead and refute it. And good luck to you. Especially, try refuting the fact that billions have been made from speculation on oxytopes, on exhumers, on T1 cruisers and BCsGÇª Quote: So is the tactic one of simply griefing empire? If so, should it be allowed in THIS form. No, it's not, but yes, even if it were, it should be allowed because there is nothing special about empire. The Apostle wrote: If G*N's can do it now (regardless of how poorly executed it is), what IS to stop 0.0 alliances stomping empire into wrecks? No precedent is being (or likely to be) set insofar as establishing a ruling on it. And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se. If it were (as many claim it is/should be) then there would be no need for Concord and no sec status hits for aggression. There is nothing to stop them, nor should there be, because, again, there is nothing special about empire space. Empire is most certainly* supposed to be a stomping ground, or combat would have been disallowed completely. You are misinterpreting the presence of CONCORD: it is not there to make sure there is no violence GÇö it's there to ensure that aggression costs. You can either pay for it with ISK through wardecs, or you can pay for it with items, though suicide ganks. That is all that CONCORD is, and it's all highsec is. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 342	Posted - 2011.10.08 09:20:00 - [57] - Quote The Apostle wrote: What if all of 0.0 did decide to "muscle up"? Is it still acceptable if not even a single empire player could effectively play anywhere!? So what? It's no different than when your nullsec region is under siege and you're down to your last few outposts GÇö all of which are nearly permacamped. What you do then is that you try to move out of the way. Quote: I'm wearing an empire advocate hat and I'm asking that we need CCP to put in place measures to PREVENT Empire stomping by 0.0 alliances. Why? Again, you seem to think that empire is somehow disconnected from nullsec GÇö it's not. They're the same. Alliances need to be able to stomp all over highsec because alliances exist in highsec, as does activites that have an impact on non-highsec space. Quote: The intent of Empire is NOT to smash everyone and everything into the ground. [GÇª] Empire IS different, has different rules and different players - it also has different motivations. As to the first point, yes it is, for the simple reason that all of EVE is meant for smashing everyone and everything in into the ground. There are no boundaries. Doing it in highsec just enforces some costs, and that's all. And that answers the second point: no, aside from that tiny detail, the rules aren't different. Highsec only means one thing: that aggression comes at a cost. That is all. If this makes players different, then they're deluding themselves GÇö they are just as much a part of the battlefield as everyone else. They're just hoping that this cost will be enough to dissuade wanton attacks on them, but that is also all it is: a hope. This campaign shows that hopes only get you so far, and sometimes, someone else's intent will crush your hope. Quote: A total blockade on ice could be a serious setback to Empire. Would it have to be determined as being detrimental to game if it remained in force indefintely? It's a rather small and insignificant annoyance to highsec GÇö it's a huge inconvenience for nullsec. Quote: The simple threat of and/or active blockading can easily prevent anything/everything in game from being done without killing a single ship. Consensual or otherwise! Good. That means the interwoven nature of the game is working as intended GÇö that all sections of space are interconnected and that what happens in one corner affects the other corners as well. Put another way, if highsec was supposed to not be a stomping ground for low/nullsec alliances, then the following things would have to be banned from highsec: GÇª no wait, that list is simply too long. Let's instead list the things you would be allowed to do in highsec: fly your noobship. Run missions. Basic T1 manufacturing in NPC stations (assuming the materials are all available in highsec). No import or export of goods of any kind. And that's it. Expand the list ever so slightly, and you're doing things that various alliances need to be able to stop you from doing, and thus they must be able to stomp all over highsec to do so. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Komen Capital Enrichment Services 13	Posted - 2011.10.08 09:30:00 - [58] - Quote Malcanis wrote: You consent to PvP when you undock your ships, whether you accept this or not. All the fuss is merely the startling realisation that this applies to ice-miners as much as it does to anyone else. There is no entitlement to safety. Actually you consent to PvP when you sign up for an account. Otherwise I agree with what you wrote. I am of the opinion that ship killing, even of the same person, over and over, is not griefing. Eve is a PvP game. Frankly, spreading nasty rumors about players, like that TheMittani runs a kitten adoption agency and is secretly a big softy and just pretends to be all goony so his other goonies don't find out, that''s just part of the game. The only griefing I can think of is real-life based stuff related to Eve - DOS attacks or a guy with wirecutters coming to cut your power (to paraphrase an old story). When it carries over to attacking the PLAYER, then it's griefing. But repeatedly killing the same mining toon? That's Eve baby. I don't do it, but I wholeheartedly support the ABILITY to do it.
Elise DarkStar DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium 19	Posted - 2011.10.08 10:41:00 - [59] - Quote I lost a drake in y-2 a few days ago. The people who killed it caused me much grief; they have been reported.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2011.10.08 10:48:00 - [60] - Quote The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? Well lets see ... If you are few days old toon and flying in retriever or rifter and some 5+ years old toon keep suiciding you every time you undock than its "wrong" and i suppose many GMs will see it as one. Being in small group of pilots trying to have significant hit on the big powerblocks and failing at that because they will kill you each time you enter their space is probably not considered as "wrong" but as the player driven scheme.

Zain Andreas GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2011.10.08 10:51:00 - [61] - Quote Dear The Apostle, Your posting is causing me much grief. If you do not stop in the next twelve (12) hours I will be forced to report you. Sincerely, G**N, esq.
Vastek Non State War Academy Caldari State 9	Posted - 2011.10.08 11:01:00 - [62] - Quote I honestly wouldn't even think about calling what is happening 'griefing'. In reality for many of the pilots, who seem to have some sort of bizzare and genuine hatred for anyone who does other than they do, it really may be, but apart from that, in EVE as long as some even moderately related to gameplay excuse can be found, it won't be called griefing. In this case they just tell CCP its economic warfare and there is no ban, end of story. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the whole saga bar that they are receiving 100% insurance payouts for situations that no real insurance company would ever think of paying out for (as I have harped on about in a different thread). P.S. why on earth haven't highsecers got together and either a) war decced persons responsible b) pooled money and hired mercs to shoot back at goons? Either way there are some very competent pilots in highsec who could easily make life very difficult for the attackers. Also a lot of people would find a new love for shooting at other pilots, or in the case of newer pilots, a new career path
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 461	Posted - 2011.10.08 11:02:00 - [63] - Quote Vastek Non wrote: P.S. why on earth haven't highsecers got together and either a) war decced persons responsible b) pooled money and hired mercs to shoot back at goons? Either way there are some very competent pilots in highsec who could easily make life very difficult for the attackers. Because they'll want compensating for their time, and people like The Apostle think that they should be protected for free. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Brisco County The Shadow Plague Gentlemen's Agreement 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 11:59:00 - [64] - Quote I say, why are you ruffians accosting this fine fellow?
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol 45	Posted - 2011.10.08 12:03:00 - [65] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? It-¦s not personal and they won-¦t stop you from ice mining. I bet you can happily mine ice in Amarr space without people consistently and maliciously interfering with it.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 43	Posted - 2011.10.08 12:09:00 - [66] - Quote Komen wrote: Frankly, spreading nasty rumors about players, like that TheMittani runs a kitten adoption agency and is secretly a big softy and just pretends to be all goony so his other goonies don't find out, that''s just part of the game. A short amount of time in our jabber channel will confirm that we're pretty much all softies who love pictures of kittens and puppies, just fyi.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 43	Posted - 2011.10.08 12:11:00 - [67] - Quote Jennifer Starling wrote: The Apostle wrote: Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? It-¦s not personal and they won-¦t stop you from ice mining. I bet you can happily mine ice in Amarr space without people consistently and maliciously interfering with it. Except for the occasional confused goon who reads the map upside-down and strays into the wrong region for his killing spree, only to find that he's not getting reimbursed because he ganked Caldari space by accident.
Raptor217 Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2011.10.08 12:29:00 - [68] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Firstly, the GN's campaign would have cost 100's of millions, if not billions of isk. The amount of ice needed to be sold to get that back would be staggering. My god you're a dumb one. I know of countless players who bought 10b worth of isotopes before this was announced and sold them at 6x profit once the market went mad. I also know that 7b worth of bounties/reimbursements were handed out by goonswarm. All it takes to kill a mackinaw is a thorax at the loss of about 2-3m if insured. Now, people killing mackinaws are reimbursed 10m, therein they are profiting. Quote: Secondly, 0.0 POS holders will simply change towers. Sure Gallente towers have moongoo bonuses but it just means more work in the short term. Last 0.0 corp I was in we had 3 months supply on hand. Minor blip. Thus no immediate or short term market for Gallente ice. (most price changes have been speculators) Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Gallente POS's are used frequently because they have a huge bonus to silos, which makes them very important for moon goo with the volumes of goo running through them each month. Quote: Other reasons? Restricting Oxy using cap fuels may have a strategic effect but only if the GN's campaign was sustained for the long term AND they had a view to invade someone. Both is unlikely. Its strategic in that oxy isotopes are used by the most common carrier (thanatos), super carrier (nyx), and titan (erebus); thus the demand is highest for that isotope. AND we are invading someone, that someone is all the residents of delve. Both are true. Most of the price change was just speculation, but that doesn't mean that we didn't make ourselves rich in the process.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 125	Posted - 2011.10.08 13:26:00 - [69] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Yeah, and everyone that owns an Erebus would just switch to a different titan. Everyone that owns a Nyx would switch to another supercarrier. Everyone that owns a Rorqual would just use an Orca. Right? Yeah, stop pretending to have a clue about what the **** you're talking about.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 438	Posted - 2011.10.08 14:57:00 - [70] - Quote the pinnacle of griefing is the eula lawyer threads, once you get those you know you done good

Kengutsi Akira 22	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:00:00 - [71] - Quote no, working as intended and honestly, can you blame the CSM involved? What would you rather be doing? Beating your head against the brick wall that is CCP and trying to get the game better, or burning it down? After all. Ppl elected at least mittens "To fix the game or finally break it for good" and thats exactly what he's doing. how about we fix the excessing ganking on the forums tho?
theDisto Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:08:00 - [72] - Quote I would be very excited if all the players in Empire, united and rised up to respond to nullsec players such as the Goons. It won't happen though and sucks to be those who have spammed towers on literally every moon in empire.
Cozmik R5 Dock 94 35	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:09:00 - [73] - Quote @Apostle: Harden the **** up. @CCP: This is your own slogan. Please uncensor it. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Karia Sur Hedion University Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:15:00 - [74] - Quote Ganking is working as intended, its the penalties for gankers which is FUBAR and needs a complete overhaul.
Kengutsi Akira 22	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:18:00 - [75] - Quote theDisto wrote: I would be very excited if all the players in Empire, united and rised up to respond to nullsec players such as the Goons. It won't happen though and sucks to be those who have spammed towers on literally every moon in empire. Imo it would be funny as hell if the opposite happened, if every 0.0 corp started invading high sec and/or wardecced all the highsec corps.
Ntrails Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:21:00 - [76] - Quote Weaselior wrote: the pinnacle of griefing is the eula lawyer threads, once you get those you know you done good you gotta be pretty :smug: about how your baby is playing out
malcovas Henderson Smoking Minerals Syndicate 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 15:23:00 - [77] - Quote IMO griefing starts when it becomes "Personal" No matter what any corporation/alliance does as a broad campaign. It cannot be considered griefing becaus it is not "Personal". Take the recent "Ice" campaign from the goons. They are not stopping "YOU" from going elsewhere to mine ice. They are not stopping "YOU" from "Experiencing" other types of play in the game. The goons ice campaign is much like gate camping. The intent is to stop you from using the "ice". Its not personal. Just you in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 442	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:17:00 - [78] - Quote Ntrails wrote: Weaselior wrote: the pinnacle of griefing is the eula lawyer threads, once you get those you know you done good you gotta be pretty :smug: about how your baby is playing out yes, yes I am
Xython Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 103	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:21:00 - [79] - Quote Kehro Urgus wrote: Lose a hulk recently? Nah, Apostle is just a one issue wonk, hates goons and is very likely Riverini of EveNews24 posting under a sock puppet account. However, It is nice to see all these blubbering crybaby threads talking about how the big bad goonies blew up your ice miner bots, though. Keep it up, it's delicious forum pornography. ~ Your rage inspires us to greatness. ~
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:30:00 - [80] - Quote I <3 user generated content and all these forum threads. How many do we have devoted to this now?

KaarBaak 71	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:34:00 - [81] - Quote Maybe Obama and Merkel should consult the goons about how to stimulate an economy.
veshna wildsun Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:35:00 - [82] - Quote The Apostle wrote: EnderCapitalG wrote: So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing? When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be? It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites. It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game. As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..." Im an average high sec player and I am enjoying the hell out of what they are doing. If you arent benefitting from this venture then you are not paying attention.
Xython Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 104	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:37:00 - [83] - Quote Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote: I <3 user generated content and all these forum threads. How many do we have devoted to this now? I counted 4 in this forum alone, there's more in the industry, marketing, and mining forums too. Clearly, this isn't enough. We need to step up our game. Next up: Lets empty Jita of anyone not in a station.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 346	Posted - 2011.10.08 16:58:00 - [84] - Quote This thread is amazing and I want to thank Riverini for creating it. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Tjo Sephagen The Roaches Tri Sol Syndicate 2	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:03:00 - [85] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Since everyone knows that goons are shrieking brain-damaged baboons with the attention span of a mayfly on meth, I'm sure it shouldn't prove a problem for the intelligent, thoughtful, mature and well-adjusted inhabitants of hi-sec to out-think and out-organise them. I'm pretty sure that you've misread the history here. Goons are shrieking brain-damaged baboons who have managed to out-recruit, out-maneuver, out-fight and just plain out-survive everything EvE can throw at them. Goons are like a force of nature. Hunker down and hope they get distracted by something shiny.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 467	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:08:00 - [86] - Quote Tjo Sephagen wrote: Malcanis wrote: Since everyone knows that goons are shrieking brain-damaged baboons with the attention span of a mayfly on meth, I'm sure it shouldn't prove a problem for the intelligent, thoughtful, mature and well-adjusted inhabitants of hi-sec to out-think and out-organise them. I'm pretty sure that you've misread the history here. Goons are shrieking brain-damaged baboons who have managed to out-recruit, out-maneuver, out-fight and just plain out-survive everything EvE can throw at them. Goons are like a force of nature. Hunker down and hope they get distracted by something shiny. Well then, I stand corrected. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 112	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:37:00 - [87] - Quote ITT: One Empire pubbie tries to claim "ALL OF HIGH SECURITY" = Gallente ice fields. Am I close? And I'd love to meet the guy that could plan a campaign where "10k-20k" nullsec dwellers could shut down all of Empire, cause I would KILL (ingame, ofc) to be in on that.
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 76	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:54:00 - [88] - Quote Somebody find, and get rid of The Apostle for me. I find his lack of rationality disturbing. GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 31	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:57:00 - [89] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Tippia wrote: The Apostle wrote: And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. No, but GÇ£maliciously interfering with the game experience of othersGÇ¥ is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience GÇö it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in. I hear ya and agree on most points but it's this very fine line between "legitimate griefing" and "outright bullying" that I am trying to define. When does repeated and specific aggression against a very small player band become griefing? What I am seeing is a lot of "single person" references in the replies and we're really down to thumbtacks here. It's a specific type of player in a specific area. It is consistent in that those players who might "normally" fly said ship in said area are being denied the right/ability to do so. Sure they could go do "something else" but so could anyone else being "griefed"... More to the point is that a single very large, very financial 0.0 enitity can remove the entire spirit of the "relative safety of empire" (I'll accept the finger smacking on this point) for a gain that is described as "economic" when it's fair to say they just want shitz and gigglez. This is NOT a G**N bash by any means but please take into account that NO other alliance/coalition practices this behaviour. Tolerated by CCP it may be but by my definition, this unadulterated bullying needs to be reigned in. I'm not asking for "fair" (it's Eve) but there is simply no counter. And when there is no counter - it's a poor game mechanic. Outright bullying: the bigger badder person hitting the weaker one. See: the entirety of nullsec. Also, were I to go randomly gank these people, or, say, organize the same thing in amarr space (assuming I had the pull to do that, which I obviously don't) , CCP would say the same thing, even though I am not in your "protected GOONIE evil class" that CCP wants to keep happy. Repeat: EVE is almost always unadulterated bullying. Then the weak blob up and, in this case, either switch off of Gallente Capitals or towers, fit their hulks to survive an alpha maelstrom (I assume with perfect tengu booster, t2 field extenders, and faction invuls this is possible? It would make them a juicier target though), or take nullsec space where Gallente Isotope Ice is mined. The funny thing is: they are not even required to tell the pilots about it ahead of time, and yet they had the sense of fairplay to do so. The people still mining for Oxygen Isotopes have decided that it is worth the risk to do so or they are really bad at math and should go somewhere else to mine ice. Did I mention that EVE is bullying everywhere?
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 31	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:00:00 - [90] - Quote Andski wrote: The Apostle wrote: Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Yeah, and everyone that owns an Erebus would just switch to a different titan. Everyone that owns a Nyx would switch to another supercarrier. Everyone that owns a Rorqual would just use an Orca. Right? Yeah, stop pretending to have a clue about what the **** you're talking about. If you think the cost of isotopes is an issue to a supercap pilot... it is pennies to the average moros or thanatos pilot. This is the biggest hole in that whole argument. If Gallente towers become less profitable to use than amarr, then people will use amarr. Your average capital pilot probably does not even glance at the price as long as it is within a couple of orders of magnitude of correct. Try again.

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 444	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:06:00 - [91] - Quote Xython wrote: Kehro Urgus wrote: Lose a hulk recently? Nah, Apostle is just a one issue wonk, hates goons and is very likely Riverini of EveNews24 posting under a sock puppet account. However, It is nice to see all these blubbering crybaby threads talking about how the big bad goonies blew up your ice miner bots, though. Keep it up, it's delicious forum pornography. ~ Your rage inspires us to greatness. ~ riverini has to get all of his rage out somewhere since he can't write it up on evenews24 heh
Demon Azrakel Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck 31	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:08:00 - [92] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Firstly, the GN's campaign would have cost 100's of millions, if not billions of isk. The amount of ice needed to be sold to get that back would be staggering. Secondly, 0.0 POS holders will simply change towers. Sure Gallente towers have moongoo bonuses but it just means more work in the short term. Last 0.0 corp I was in we had 3 months supply on hand. Minor blip. Thus no immediate or short term market for Gallente ice. (most price changes have been speculators) Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Other reasons? Restricting Oxy using cap fuels may have a strategic effect but only if the GN's campaign was sustained for the long term AND they had a view to invade someone. Both is unlikely. Billions of isk, between 6961 people as of last dotlan update. Lets assume 10 billion isk. Starting ice price is 600, selling is 900. To make back that 10 billion, they would have had to buy 33,333,333 oxygen isotopes at a cost of 20 billion isk. I am sure that with the amount of speculation and increase in isk prices, significantly more isk worth of isotopes has been moving, allowing both the average goonie, the alliance as a whole, and much of eve that had some level of intelligence to make a killing on this. Try again.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 468	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:10:00 - [93] - Quote Feligast wrote: ITT: One Empire pubbie tries to claim "ALL OF HIGH SECURITY" = Gallente ice fields. Am I close? And I'd love to meet the guy that could plan a campaign where "10k-20k" nullsec dwellers could shut down all of Empire, cause I would KILL (ingame, ofc) to be in on that. Maybe we should talk about this. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 444	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:12:00 - [94] - Quote interestingly looking at the jabber channel i think we've pretty much pulverized all resistance day 1+2 was mostly slaughtering clueless untanked macks/hulks between then and yesterday mostly supertanked hulks now, it seems we're mostly killing untanked ships again, I think we're nailing the people who don't know what's going on, while everyone who knows has given up and gotten out
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 355	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:20:00 - [95] - Quote Demon Azrakel wrote: I am sure that with the amount of speculation and increase in isk prices, significantly more isk worth of isotopes has been moving, allowing both the average goonie, the alliance as a whole, and much of eve that had some level of intelligence to make a killing on this. I was only able to make about 250mil, because I was late, lazy and only kept it up for one eveningGÇª GÇªthey need to do this more often and when I'm in the mood for baby-sitting market orders. It's pure griefing that they did it when I wasn't ready!! GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 468	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:21:00 - [96] - Quote Tippia wrote: Demon Azrakel wrote: I am sure that with the amount of speculation and increase in isk prices, significantly more isk worth of isotopes has been moving, allowing both the average goonie, the alliance as a whole, and much of eve that had some level of intelligence to make a killing on this. I was only able to make about 250mil, because I was late, lazy and only kept it up for one eveningGÇª GÇªthey need to do this more often and when I'm in the mood for baby-sitting market orders. It's pure griefing that they did it when I wasn't ready!! To the petition-mobile! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Di Mulle 17	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:25:00 - [97] - Quote Tippia wrote: [quote=Demon Azrakel It's pure griefing that they did it when I wasn't ready!! Damn, Tippia is so correct - again ! You becoming boring being so true, mate CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough.
PyroTech03 Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:37:00 - [98] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Puppet Mas'ter wrote: EVE Stig wrote: Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? I endorse this idea. Maybe Mittens can pull it off when all of 0.0 is one alliance Strangely enough, you have both added to why I am concerned that there is no way to prevent this. If GN's can do it now (regardless of how poorly executed it is), what IS to stop 0.0 alliances stomping empire into wrecks? No precedent is being (or likely to be) set insofar as establishing a ruling on it. And this remains my point of contention. Empire is NOT supposed to be a stomping ground or Thunderdome per se. If it were (as many claim it is/should be) then there would be no need for Concord and no sec status hits for aggression. There is no cry for "safety" here, just a precautionary note as to lack of action against Empire stomping. If it is allowed (and encouraged) at n degree when do we decalare it has become m degree and intolerable? When it's NOT GN's doing it? What if all of 0.0 did decide to "muscle up"? Is it still acceptable if not even a single empire player could effectively play anywhere!? It's fine to say CCP has spoken, but if so, why do we need sov chages, cap nerfs, ad infinitum when 0.0 residents say so? They scream broken mechanics and tickety boo, it's fixed. I'm wearing an empire advocate hat and I'm asking that we need CCP to put in place measures to PREVENT Empire stomping by 0.0 alliances. A precedent needs to be set and this current "op" is a great example. The intent of Empire is NOT to smash everyone and everything into the ground. But it's happening and there is nothing to prevent it happening on a much larger scale. That's the point....it's a sandbox and no-where is completely safe. Empire is just as much a target for anything as any other region of space. The mechanics are there to give them their sec-hits and they're willing to deal with it. The game is PvP. Market, ships, whatever. If you don't like it, go play Wizard 101 or one of those disney MMOs. If goons gave up sov and moved to hi-sec, does that mean they can do this now? they're still just as large as they were holding 0.0...but if we're saying that, "Null alliances can't do this!" then that would fix the problem right? Or I can take my alliance to gallente space and kill miners and it'd be ok, cause my alliance hasn't set foot in 0.0....that would be ok by your terms. Empire is meant to give you a little bit of "control" over your situation. Like living in a big city....you can live on the good part of town, but crime does still happen. As for not having a counter, here's one for you. Take your corp...go mine the Ice. Have some of your corp mine, and the other part in PvP fit ships and protect your miners. If goons come in, your PvP fit ships job is to keep them busy long enough to get the miner's out. When they aggress one member, they get aggression on the whole corp. Unless your in an NPC corp....but if that's the case then you have every reason to be alone. (Go join a corp already :D) TL;DR This is eve. Either think of a way around the problem (my suggestion above) or avoid the problem and move somewhere else or do something different. If you don't like it, go play Hello Kitty or something... @ All goons: Why did you do this AFTER I sold off a large portion of Oxy Iso's? :(
0ld School SON OF RAVANA League of Reprobates 1	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:54:00 - [99] - Quote ITT: Sweet, sweet care-bear tears.
Aidan Brooder Dynasphere Ltd. 39	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:56:00 - [100] - Quote I want EVE to keep being a place where you can be attacked at any time within the rules of: High Sec = You get blown up by Concord (eventually) Low Sec = You get blown up Zero Sec = You carve your own empire Fact is, CCP cannot do much about this currently. It is the players broke it, the players voted for the current CSM, who are all Goons or PL or other "large alliance players". I don't know the current stats, but I think High Sec players still outnumber them by far and should get organized instead of whining. Vote for a different CSM next time. Otherwise I think that what the Goons do is not "griefing". They do what the game allows them to do fairly indiscriminately against all. I do not say it is necessarily right or cool. To me it looks like simple boredom. If they had a harder time to get the money to finance such "campaigns" they would not do them. (e.g. they were involved in one of those BIG wars we keep hearing about. ) The easier it gets for the large Alliances to make cash in 0.0 the more "campaigns" they can do. All I ever did in Zero-Sec is get a BIG wallet. I think that is why I started a new char. ;)

Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 19:45:00 - [101] - Quote The real problem here isn't that they're blowing up mining ships. Eve is a PvP game, and so this should happen. However, there is nothing the empire players can do back to the Goons. When only one side can blow up the other side's ships, there's a problem. If miners fight back, they lose sec status. Goons don't care about Sec status, so they don't care if they get popped by concord. The game is in the goons favor, it's a flawed mechanic. Sec status, which was intended to be a deterrent for high sec killing is now a barrier working in favor of the goons. I'm not biased in this debate since I don't mine at all, nor have I ever been popped by another player, I'm simply pointing out a flawed and stupid game mechanic. If I could fight and defend those miners from these baboons, I would, but since I need to worry about my sec status I cannot. Something needs to change.
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 113	Posted - 2011.10.08 19:59:00 - [102] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: The real problem here isn't that they're blowing up mining ships. Eve is a PvP game, and so this should happen. However, there is nothing the empire players can do back to the Goons. When only one side can blow up the other side's ships, there's a problem. If miners fight back, they lose sec status. Goons don't care about Sec status, so they don't care if they get popped by concord. The game is in the goons favor, it's a flawed mechanic. Sec status, which was intended to be a deterrent for high sec killing is now a barrier working in favor of the goons. I'm not biased in this debate since I don't mine at all, nor have I ever been popped by another player, I'm simply pointing out a flawed and stupid game mechanic. If I could fight and defend those miners from these baboons, I would, but since I need to worry about my sec status I cannot. Something needs to change. Let me correct you on one point. As soon as someone attacks another player in violation of CONCORD policy, they turn blinky red to everyone until CONCORD blows them up. Being blinky red means you can be attacked WITHOUT SEC STATUS PENALTY by ANYONE. So no, defending miners, and them fighting back, does not cost sec status. Preemptively attacking a player with a higher than -5 status will, though. Now that you've been proven wrong, care to amend your call for change there?
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:03:00 - [103] - Quote they could come to 0.0, where they don't lose sec status oh, they don't want to? i see, the problem is they're unwilling to, not they cant
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:04:00 - [104] - Quote Nope, I shouldn't have to wait for them to fire on a miner to defend them. The game is still playing in the goons favor. And I suppose they could o to low sec... but then again not everyone is a war mongering buffoon looking to get into a fight.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:04:00 - [105] - Quote they could wardec us? oh, they don't want to do that cause they'll get pulverized? see above
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:05:00 - [106] - Quote War deccing costs money, and I shouldn't have to pull my entire corp into something they don't want to do.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 468	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:13:00 - [107] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Nope, I shouldn't have to wait for them to fire on a miner to defend them. The game is still playing in the goons favor. And I suppose they could o to low sec... but then again not everyone is a war mongering buffoon looking to get into a fight. Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:14:00 - [108] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:15:00 - [109] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: War deccing costs money, and I shouldn't have to pull my entire corp into something they don't want to do. so basically its too hard so you want to quit that's fine don't see the problem
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:15:00 - [110] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X please peasant weaselior is -10 and still ganking your ass

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:16:00 - [111] - Quote you know what else costs money? suicide ganking
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 468	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:17:00 - [112] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X Your ignorance pains me. I am petitioning you for griefing. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 114	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:17:00 - [113] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Nope, I shouldn't have to wait for them to fire on a miner to defend them. The game is still playing in the goons favor. And I suppose they could o to low sec... but then again not everyone is a war mongering buffoon looking to get into a fight. So you're saying... you should be able to gank anyone, without losing sec status, in hisec, at any time, just because you don't like them? I agree!!
Admiral Sarah Solette Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:19:00 - [114] - Quote There's this thing called an edit button, or are you too stupid to use it? Oh.... right... Goon. And no I don't want to quit, this stupid grief war the goons are doing has no effect whatsoever on me. I just want to defend those who can't defend themselves. And lol, fitting T1 ships costs money? XD Pocket change. Arguing with you dumb asses is pointless, it sucks that not even simple concepts can be grasped by you. So go ahead and act like pussies fighting against those who can't fight back. I'll be sure to look into you Weas.
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:20:00 - [115] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: The real problem here isn't that they're blowing up mining ships. Eve is a PvP game, and so this should happen. However, there is nothing the empire players can do back to the Goons. When only one side can blow up the other side's ships, there's a problem. If miners fight back, they lose sec status. Goons don't care about Sec status, so they don't care if they get popped by concord. The game is in the goons favor, it's a flawed mechanic. Sec status, which was intended to be a deterrent for high sec killing is now a barrier working in favor of the goons. I'm not biased in this debate since I don't mine at all, nor have I ever been popped by another player, I'm simply pointing out a flawed and stupid game mechanic. If I could fight and defend those miners from these baboons, I would, but since I need to worry about my sec status I cannot. Something needs to change. Yeah, remove CONCORD. All they do is protect the criminals anyways lol why dont the goons war dec them? Thatd be a funny thought for all the high sec carebears crapping their pants at the sight of THAT mail "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Basileus Volkan Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:21:00 - [116] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X That isn't even needed. So far we have met laughably little resistance, which only goes to show how soft Empire dwellers are.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 361	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:24:00 - [117] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X 'Tis true that CCP, in my experience, is somewhat lacking in enforcement of it's alt recycling rule. I have gotten players bragging to me on my girlie characters (astounding how dumb little boys are) about their abuse of this rule. Including letting me watch and giving me the names of their mains. I forward the chat logs to CCP and nada. Mr Epeen If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:25:00 - [118] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: There's this thing called an edit button, or are you too stupid to use it? Oh.... right... Goon. And no I don't want to quit, this stupid grief war the goons are doing has no effect whatsoever on me. I just want to defend those who can't defend themselves. And lol, fitting T1 ships costs money? XD Pocket change. Arguing with you dumb asses is pointless, it sucks that not even simple concepts can be grasped by you. So go ahead and act like pussies fighting against those who can't fight back. I'll be sure to look into you Weas. why do worthless pubbies think we care about their opinions
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:25:00 - [119] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Malcanis wrote: Once the gankers drop below -5.0 they can be attacked with impunity by anyone at any time. I wish, then they biomass/move them to low sec and start another alt. =X If you have proof of this petotion it that actually is an exploit, or it was during Hulkageddon, I remember seeing blues saying as much "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 114	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:26:00 - [120] - Quote Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: Arguing with you dumb asses is pointless, it sucks that not even simple concepts can be grasped by me. So I'll go ahead quit posting like a ***** who can't be bothered to work, just wants the game changed when I don't like it. I'll be sure to look into you Weas. Translated that.

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:27:00 - [121] - Quote oh no the highsec pubbie who knows nothing thinks im dumb :ohdear:
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:28:00 - [122] - Quote sure I could biomass my 70m sp guys with perfect ganking skills...or I could buy an orca and/or a staging alt decisions decisions
Basileus Volkan Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:28:00 - [123] - Quote But seriously. Biomassing a character and making another 10 hour hero is way too much :effort: for the average goon when he can just keep on murdering pubbies at -10 status anyway.
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:28:00 - [124] - Quote Biomass!! I vote biomass!!
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:30:00 - [125] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Admiral Sarah Solette wrote: There's this thing called an edit button, or are you too stupid to use it? Oh.... right... Goon. And no I don't want to quit, this stupid grief war the goons are doing has no effect whatsoever on me. I just want to defend those who can't defend themselves. And lol, fitting T1 ships costs money? XD Pocket change. Arguing with you dumb asses is pointless, it sucks that not even simple concepts can be grasped by you. So go ahead and act like pussies fighting against those who can't fight back. I'll be sure to look into you Weas. why do worthless pubbies think we care about their opinions Why do you respond as if they do? If this all matters so little to you, just ignore them lol respodning to them, going to far as making a term FOR them shows how much you DO care, as much as you pretend you dont. Its like the hard death metal listeners that dress all alike "to be different" and pretend like they dont care what others think of them lol "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 449	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:31:00 - [126] - Quote i don't care about their opinions, i care about making them suffer grinding their nose in the dirt provides a nice interlude for waiting off gccs or moving to new hunting grounds
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:32:00 - [127] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: If this all matters so little to you, just ignore them lol Ignoring them generates no tears, sir.
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:34:00 - [128] - Quote Feligast wrote: EVE Stig wrote: If this all matters so little to you, just ignore them lol Ignoring them generates no tears, sir. yes but all you guys' protestations of how little it matters to you show how much it actually does. "methinks he doth protest too much" lol "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Komen Capital Enrichment Services 13	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:38:00 - [129] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Komen wrote: Frankly, spreading nasty rumors about players, like that TheMittani runs a kitten adoption agency and is secretly a big softy and just pretends to be all goony so his other goonies don't find out, that''s just part of the game. A short amount of time in our jabber channel will confirm that we're pretty much all softies who love pictures of kittens and puppies, just fyi. I know, I've been lurking Kugu the better part of 2 years now. Eventually I hope my posting skills will be up to snuff, and might register and take part.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:39:00 - [130] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: respodning to them, going to far as making a term FOR them shows how much you DO care, as much as you pretend you dont. Its like the hard death metal listeners that dress all alike "to be different" and pretend like they dont care what others think of them lol this is what you edited in, you looked at your post and thought 'this is what would make it perfect' probably shoulda gone with option II, whatever it was

Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:40:00 - [131] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: yes but all you guys' protestations of how little it matters to you show how much it actually does. "methinks he doth protest too much" lol siogh. Our secret is out, boys. Let's just admit that everything we do in game is so the pubbies love us, and will hold us late at night when we get sacred at shadows in our basement bedrooms, while not trying to stick anything in our poopers.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:40:00 - [132] - Quote you're right, we made up the term worthless pubbie on the spot because we care deeply about their opinions and thoughts
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:41:00 - [133] - Quote we care so deeply it hurts sometimes that the people we make suffer constantly don't like and approve of us
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:44:00 - [134] - Quote lol Goonie tears cause theyre pretending so hard they dont care Its always fun watching you guys do that lol "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:46:00 - [135] - Quote stinging fourth grade insults, you must have really worked hard on those go home to mommy child, the men are posting
Basileus Volkan Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:50:00 - [136] - Quote Have you heard a 4th grader swear? Kids these days are way better at throwing insults than that.
ConranAntoni Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:50:00 - [137] - Quote As a bored highsec ***** who delves into the armpit of lowsec to shoot at shitfit canes, the jihad on iceminers has literally made my year. You'd think the novelty would've worn off for me now but instead i've repurposed my alt to help purge gallente icefields. Kudos to Goonswarm for making eve fun with delicious tears and inspirational suicide squads!
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:54:00 - [138] - Quote More tears please Goons, I love it. I also love the assumptions of my immaturity Coming from you guys thats just funny "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Kengutsi Akira 22	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:01:00 - [139] - Quote Seriously (well yeah nothing here is serious) why DONT you guys start wardeccing their corps? The panic youd create with that, the biggest null sec corp in the game war decs their high sec carebear corp, you wanna keep them outta the belts, theres a way lol They'll just stop undocking
Basileus Volkan Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:02:00 - [140] - Quote We do want them in the belts. How else are we supposed to shoot them in the glorious name of Allah?

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 451	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:04:00 - [141] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: More tears please Goons, I love it. I also love the assumptions of my immaturity Coming from you guys thats just funny I am not sure how you posting at a third grade level is improved by you actually being older, but ********
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:06:00 - [142] - Quote Weaselior wrote: EVE Stig wrote: More tears please Goons, I love it. I also love the assumptions of my immaturity Coming from you guys thats just funny I am not sure how you posting at a third grade level is improved by you actually being older, but ******** Oh come on, Ive seen you guys do better than this, this is a sad, sad, insult. And a very bad post. Dont do it again. "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Komen Capital Enrichment Services 13	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:10:00 - [143] - Quote So out of idle curiousity, how goes the campaign today? I'd hit the killboards but :effort:
The Apostle The Black Priests 207	Posted - 2011.10.08 21:56:00 - [144] - Quote Andski wrote: The Apostle wrote: Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Yeah, and everyone that owns an Erebus would just switch to a different titan. Everyone that owns a Nyx would switch to another supercarrier. Everyone that owns a Rorqual would just use an Orca. Right? Yeah, stop pretending to have a clue about what the ** you're talking about. Likewise. If you'd taken 30 extra seconds to read you would have seen that I made and covered that point. I also made the point that yes, Gallente towers have bonuses, but if the ice dried up, it just means some extra work for moongoo harvesters switching towers temporarily. You and your mates didn't see that either did you? But really, unless you guys are prepared to lock the ice down for months and months, it will be no more than a blip for most people. The whole campaign is just kindygarten bully boy stuff and is about as exciting as watching a dog ** on a tree. ...ooo000ooo... But hey, I accept the thread consensus on this. It was a question I was curious about and I think it was answered quite clearly. c'est la vie PS: Thank you to the guys that added constructive commentary. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Xython Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 105	Posted - 2011.10.08 22:05:00 - [145] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: Weaselior wrote: EVE Stig wrote: More tears please Goons, I love it. I also love the assumptions of my immaturity Coming from you guys thats just funny I am not sure how you posting at a third grade level is improved by you actually being older, but ******** Oh come on, Ive seen you guys do better than this, this is a sad, sad, insult. And a very bad post. Dont do it again. I agree. No mention of your mother, no insinuations of inappropriate sexual conduct with farm animals, frankly Weaselior, we expect better.
Zirse Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2011.10.08 22:20:00 - [146] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Andski wrote: The Apostle wrote: Lastly, all empire POS holders can just change faction. Again, no market for Gallente ice. Yeah, and everyone that owns an Erebus would just switch to a different titan. Everyone that owns a Nyx would switch to another supercarrier. Everyone that owns a Rorqual would just use an Orca. Right? Yeah, stop pretending to have a clue about what the ** you're talking about. Likewise. If you'd taken 30 extra seconds to read you would have seen that I made and covered that point. I also made the point that yes, Gallente towers have bonuses, but if the ice dried up, it just means some extra work for moongoo harvesters switching towers temporarily. You and your mates didn't see that either did you? But really, unless you guys are prepared to lock the ice down for months and months, it will be no more than a blip for most people. The whole campaign is just kindygarten bully boy stuff and is about as exciting as watching a dog ** on a tree. ...ooo000ooo... But hey, I accept the thread consensus on this. It was a question I was curious about and I think it was answered quite clearly. c'est la vie PS: Thank you to the guys that added constructive commentary. Here is a man who has never tried to do any reaction chains trying to talk about the EVEonomics of oxytopes. I think the first five or so pages of this thread have consistently demonstrated your level of dumbass-- you should probably just biomass at this point.
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 823	Posted - 2011.10.08 22:52:00 - [147] - Quote i love threads like this, they're almost as fun as blowing up hiseccers
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 823	Posted - 2011.10.08 22:54:00 - [148] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Seriously (well yeah nothing here is serious) why DONT you guys start wardeccing their corps? The panic youd create with that, the biggest null sec corp in the game war decs their high sec carebear corp, you wanna keep them outta the belts, theres a way lol They'll just stop undocking we've wardecced any who try organized resistance via guarding belts, and they run and vanish immediately in terror, like you say most ice miners are in npc corps because they're bots
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 823	Posted - 2011.10.08 22:59:00 - [149] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Argument from personal ignorance is rarely persausive. There's a reason people use Gallente towers. Read my post AGAIN. I said as much. you seem kind of angry in this thread, and because i dislike you and i'm a sadist, that gives me pleasure toodles
Fail Sui Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 23:44:00 - [150] - Quote Weaselior wrote: the pinnacle of griefing is the eula lawyer threads, once you get those you know you done good Not empty quoting.

Fail Sui Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 23:44:00 - [151] - Quote Also this thread is horrible.
Fail Sui Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 23:45:00 - [152] - Quote But I strangely love it.
The Apostle The Black Priests 210	Posted - 2011.10.09 00:27:00 - [153] - Quote Zirse wrote: Here is a man who has never tried to do any reaction chains trying to talk about the EVEonomics of oxytopes. I think the first five or so pages of this thread have consistently demonstrated your level of dumbass-- you should probably just biomass at this point. I ran multiple reaction chain towers in DekCo land my good fellow and run multiple low-end goo towers in low currently. I know that Gallente towers have silo bonuses etc. If ice supply were a problem - in the long term - it would be a case of changing towers and working harder to achieve the same level of reactions. Perhaps YOU need to do some research as to why it is little more than an inconvenience to most. They would have to run this campaign for a very long time to stop moongoo and only those without appropriate reserves would feel the effects. As for being a dumbass. Look at this face. Do I look boffered? You're just another [yawn] poster that slags off other peoples' topics without actually adding anything. Not agreeing with someone is fine. Attacking the man is well.... Inconsequential and rather pointless. But as long as you feel good.... meh. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Anela Cistine GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 21	Posted - 2011.10.09 00:34:00 - [154] - Quote If you are going to quote the rules, quote the whole rule, it isn't long. One line out of context distorts the rule. Quote: A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition. An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. Goonswarm Federation is profiting from this action in many ways, therefore it is not griefing. We're making money manipulating the isotope market. Immediate profit. If the price spikes hard enough, it may become worthwhile to mine ice in nullsec for long term profit. Most goons have no interest in mining, but some of our member corps might. (I'm looking at you, Thunderwaffe.) Of course we have allied alliances that do like to mine, and just happen to control the right kind of ice. An amazing coincidence? No. If the interdiction is successful, it become more expensive to run gallente caps, supercaps, jump frieghters and rorquels. Potentially a major strategic and logistical advantage for any alliances that knew about it ahead of time and stocked up below 450. We're at war, if our enemies are inconvenience that is a strategic benefit for us. Secondary affects on reaction towers and T2 goods will also benefit us. Many of these ice miners are bots, and having them continue to warp back and forth between the belts and the station, mining in in their pods is pretty good evidence that they are bots. Popping miners and seeing which ones at like bots allows us to report them to CCP and hopefully get them shut down. Getting rid of bots benefits everyone. Some goons are having a great time and don't care about the big picture at all, some of those goons might even be in our directorate. But there is a big picture, and we are getting more out of this than just tears. As long as we are getting any in-game benefit at all, the rules say it isn't griefing. Sorry.
The Apostle The Black Priests 211	Posted - 2011.10.09 00:37:00 - [155] - Quote The Mittani wrote: The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: The Apostle wrote: Malcanis wrote: They don't have to do any mining. They just have to buy up all the available stocks and then stop anyone else mining them. I rule out the economic argument as total BS. Alway have. Argument from personal ignorance is rarely persausive. There's a reason people use Gallente towers. Read my post AGAIN. I said as much. you seem kind of angry in this thread, and because i dislike you and i'm a sadist, that gives me pleasure toodles I have no need to get angry Mittens, stop flattering yourself. And hey, dislike me, pfft... I'm not here to win your heart darlin'... Besides, I am very comfortable in the knowledge that I don't need 7,500 bo peeps to prop up my ego Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
The Apostle The Black Priests 211	Posted - 2011.10.09 00:42:00 - [156] - Quote Anela Cistine wrote: If you are going to quote the rules, quote the whole rule, it isn't long. One line out of context distorts the rule. Quote: A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition. An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. Goonswarm Federation is profiting from this action in many ways, therefore it is not griefing. We're making money manipulating the isotope market. Immediate profit. If the price spikes hard enough, it may become worthwhile to mine ice in nullsec for long term profit. Most goons have no interest in mining, but some of our member corps might. (I'm looking at you, Thunderwaffe.) Of course we have allied alliances that do like to mine, and just happen to control the right kind of ice. An amazing coincidence? No. If the interdiction is successful, it become more expensive to run gallente caps, supercaps, jump frieghters and rorquels. Potentially a major strategic and logistical advantage for any alliances that knew about it ahead of time and stocked up below 450. We're at war, if our enemies are inconvenience that is a strategic benefit for us. Secondary affects on reaction towers and T2 goods will also benefit us. Many of these ice miners are bots, and having them continue to warp back and forth between the belts and the station, mining in in their pods is pretty good evidence that they are bots. Popping miners and seeing which ones at like bots allows us to report them to CCP and hopefully get them shut down. Getting rid of bots benefits everyone. Some goons are having a great time and don't care about the big picture at all, some of those goons might even be in our directorate. But there is a big picture, and we are getting more out of this than just tears. As long as we are getting any in-game benefit at all, the rules say it isn't griefing. Sorry. I appreciate your WoT. Curious why you think you need to explain it all.... Nonetheless, if you took the time to look around, I've as good as said this campaign has merely flagged - to me- whether it should be allowed in the best interests of the game. I have also stated that I have read and concede to the consenus. It's why I asked in the first place. I had my view and wanted to see what others thought. Mission accomplished. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Tyrone Cashmoney GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2011.10.09 01:00:00 - [157] - Quote My client crashed yesterday, CCP must be griefing me.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 348	Posted - 2011.10.09 01:19:00 - [158] - Quote The Apostle wrote: The whole campaign is just kindygarten bully boy stuff and is about as exciting as watching a dog **** on a tree. It's made you cry like a little girl. That alone has been enough to keep me going. Never stop posting. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Anela Cistine GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 21	Posted - 2011.10.09 01:51:00 - [159] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Curious why you think you need to explain it all.... luv2post. I'm not good at witty troll posts, so I prefer to drown people in perfectly reasonable word vomit. On goonfleet.com or SA a wall of words can get you into trouble, but not here. Here I can indulge my desire to make big posts. I like big posts and a I can not lie.
VaMei Meafi Corp 19	Posted - 2011.10.09 02:03:00 - [160] - Quote Tippia wrote: They're just causing general havoc (or wellGÇª trying to, at least) and having fun (and profit) in the process, all of which is entirely legal. In fact, one might even say that they're playing EVE in its purest form. Again, they're not interfering with the game experience GÇö they provide it... Love it or hate it, what the Goons are doing is proof that the sandbox is alive and well, and that what we do has effects on the entire game. This is the Butterfly Effect on steroids.

Rocky Deadshot In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance 6	Posted - 2011.10.09 02:32:00 - [161] - Quote I'm getting good lols from this whole thing, while I am a high sec "carebear", I enjoy a good laugh. My only concern are the use of work-arounds (some would say exploits) to get around the current sec system. For example, the use of Orcas to store ships and launch them for individuals to hop into on site (brilliant work around though.. kudos to whoever thought that up) so they can continue the gankfest after -5. For awhile I've always thought that something needed a change in the sec system... to reinforce the -5 sec and you cant be in high sec... as well as the poding of individuals. Considering actually blowing up someones pod will have little to no financial gain for the individual that does it... and that it is against the rules in high sec, I propose the following changes: If a player blows up another players ship in high security space having already attained a -5 sec status... concord will attempt to pod the player (make it so the player can still have a chance to get away) . Concord can continue to pursue this pod for 15mins or until the vacate high security space. With a possible banning from docking at stations during this time... although that could be left out. (obviously good pilots would never get podded from this system, but it would mean that they would have to return to low sec to wait out their timer) The same consequence for anyone that pods another player in high sec would be applied. Again... its meant to be manageable situation that basically forces players out of high sec for the duration of their pod kill timer. I know this looks like a buff, but its more along the lines of helping enforce the fact that high security space is policed and that the open use of work arounds and complete disregard for the system should be at least partially diminished. Of course the other solution would be to remove Orca's from high sec... but other than dedicated null secers... i don't think anyone would really support that.
David Cedarbridge Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 39	Posted - 2011.10.09 05:35:00 - [162] - Quote Rocky Deadshot wrote: I'm getting good lols from this whole thing, while I am a high sec "carebear", I enjoy a good laugh. My only concern are the use of work-arounds (some would say exploits) to get around the current sec system. For example, the use of Orcas to store ships and launch them for individuals to hop into on site (brilliant work around though.. kudos to whoever thought that up) so they can continue the gankfest after -5. For awhile I've always thought that something needed a change in the sec system... to reinforce the -5 sec and you cant be in high sec... as well as the poding of individuals. Considering actually blowing up someones pod will have little to no financial gain for the individual that does it... and that it is against the rules in high sec, I propose the following changes: If a player blows up another players ship in high security space having already attained a -5 sec status... concord will attempt to pod the player (make it so the player can still have a chance to get away) . Concord can continue to pursue this pod for 15mins or until the vacate high security space. With a possible banning from docking at stations during this time... although that could be left out. (obviously good pilots would never get podded from this system, but it would mean that they would have to return to low sec to wait out their timer) The same consequence for anyone that pods another player in high sec would be applied. Again... its meant to be manageable situation that basically forces players out of high sec for the duration of their pod kill timer. I know this looks like a buff, but its more along the lines of helping enforce the fact that high security space is policed and that the open use of work arounds and complete disregard for the system should be at least partially diminished. Of course the other solution would be to remove Orca's from high sec... but other than dedicated null secers... i don't think anyone would really support that. I have no idea what you're talking about here. There's never been a "rule" against podding anyone in high sec.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 463	Posted - 2011.10.09 05:39:00 - [163] - Quote The Apostle wrote: I have no need to get angry Mittens, stop flattering yourself. And hey, dislike me, pfft... I'm not here to win your heart darlin'... Besides, I am very comfortable in the knowledge that I don't need 7,500 bo peeps to prop up my ego shut up riverini
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 463	Posted - 2011.10.09 05:39:00 - [164] - Quote i would be very comfortable in that much cushioning too
Rocky Deadshot In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance 6	Posted - 2011.10.09 05:54:00 - [165] - Quote David Cedarbridge wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about here. There's never been a "rule" against podding anyone in high sec. The fact that concord blow you up for podding someone in high sec would imply there is a rule against doing it. Just like there is a rule against speeding on the highway... you can do it, and suffer the consequences (although in eve's case your less likely to get away with it)
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 354	Posted - 2011.10.09 05:57:00 - [166] - Quote Rocky Deadshot wrote: David Cedarbridge wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about here. There's never been a "rule" against podding anyone in high sec. The fact that concord blow you up for podding someone in high sec would imply there is a rule against doing it. Just like there is a rule against speeding on the highway... you can do it, and suffer the consequences (although in eve's case your less likely to get away with it) There is a consequence for killing a pod in high sec. There isn't a rule preventing it. As long as you're willing to accept the consequence you're good to go. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 474	Posted - 2011.10.09 06:01:00 - [167] - Quote Rocky Deadshot wrote: David Cedarbridge wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about here. There's never been a "rule" against podding anyone in high sec. The fact that concord blow you up for podding someone in high sec would imply there is a rule against doing it. Just like there is a rule against speeding on the highway... you can do it, and suffer the consequences (although in eve's case your less likely to get away with it) Just the fact that NPC pirates attack you if you warp to a belt and stay there (to mine for instance) would imply that there's a rule against doing it. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Kamden Line Scordite Excavating Xenaphobe 5	Posted - 2011.10.09 06:17:00 - [168] - Quote Griefing: Some guy has perma-dec'd Red Frog Freight. He then spread the decks between five alt corps. He clearly has nothing to gain from it, but continues to deck Red Frog. Not griefing: Blowing up some guys hulk in an ice belt. It would be griefing if I specifically hunted him down and continued to do it, regardless of what he was flying and when. Let's just say there's a fine line, and most know when they've crossed it.
Nerdy Deadshot In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 06:24:00 - [169] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Rocky Deadshot wrote: David Cedarbridge wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about here. There's never been a "rule" against podding anyone in high sec. The fact that concord blow you up for podding someone in high sec would imply there is a rule against doing it. Just like there is a rule against speeding on the highway... you can do it, and suffer the consequences (although in eve's case your less likely to get away with it) There is a consequence for killing a pod in high sec. There isn't a rule preventing it. As long as you're willing to accept the consequence you're good to go. Rules don't prevent action... They imply consequences FOR action. Posting from phone so on alt.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 474	Posted - 2011.10.09 07:16:00 - [170] - Quote Kamden Line wrote: Griefing: Some guy has perma-dec'd Red Frog Freight. He then spread the decks between five alt corps. He clearly has nothing to gain from it, but continues to deck Red Frog. Not griefing: Blowing up some guys hulk in an ice belt. It would be griefing if I specifically hunted him down and continued to do it, regardless of what he was flying and when. Let's just say there's a fine line, and most know when they've crossed it. Hi, my name is Malcanis and I'm in an alliance called The Initiative. We operate a policy popularly known as "NBSI", short for "Not Blue, Shoot It". This means that all of us consider anyone who is not in the alliance nor on the list of groups who we have specifically marked blue to be actively hostile to us. And that list is pretty short, by the way; I'm afraid to say that you're not on it. According to our publically stated and consistently applied policy, we consider virtually everyone in EVE to be valid targets. We care nothing for the "laws" of Empire except insofar that they add a significant time/cost overhead to engaging targets of opportunity. Nor are we at all interested in your odd and unfounded belief that you're "entitled" to be considered friendly to us or that it's breaking some imaginary "rule" to treat you as hostile. Our rules say that we can shoot you whenever we like, wherever we can, in whatever ship you're in, for any reason that suits our purposes. As far as we're concered, all space is hostile space, it's just that some parts of it has nastier gate rats with different aggro mechanics than others. It's not personal - we're not interested in you at all as an individual player, it's just that, well, you're our enemy. We've chosen to draw a line with us and a very few select friends on this side: HERE <-- \| -> THERE and everyone else on the "there" side. As I said - nothing personal, you're just on the wrong side. Now as it happens, we currently have very few interests in hi-sec space, so as a matter of practicality, you're unlikely to be the focus of much attention from INIT. But rest assured that the second we find you between us and something we want, you will be. As it happens, Goonswarm Federation operates a policy and a philosophy similar to ours, albeit with a somewhat longer list of friends (they're much more likeable than we are). And it seems that a number of hi-sec players have interposed themselves between GSF and something they want. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 357	Posted - 2011.10.09 07:49:00 - [171] - Quote Malcanis wrote: As it happens, Goonswarm Federation operates a policy and a philosophy similar to ours, albeit with a somewhat longer list of friends (they're much more likeable than we are). You guys should petition to join the DCF. We can space friends. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Prince Kobol 51	Posted - 2011.10.09 08:29:00 - [172] - Quote The funny thing is I used to think the goons where nothing more then prepubescent 12 yr old outcasts who were playing Eve as it is there only way at being able to shout out against a cruel world where they are shunned in every walk of life and are hated even by their own family, as well single 40 yr old virgins who still living with their parents and are attracted to the younger members of our society. However now I would like to put that to one side and thank them for bringing some fun and excitement into High Sec. Well done and keep up with the great work
Ntrails Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2011.10.09 10:27:00 - [173] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Goonswarm Federation operates a policy and a philosophy similar to ours, albeit with a somewhat longer list of friends (they're much more likeable than we are). it's easy to be likeable when you earn more isk in technetium during your morning poop than most people earn in a year
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 468	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:29:00 - [174] - Quote podded four guys in jita already and i'm starting to get the hang of it podding owns
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 468	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:34:00 - [175] - Quote to be clear i am podding people for the sole reason to cause them to suffer with absolutely no benefit to me
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 468	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:35:00 - [176] - Quote griefing them, as it were
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 480	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:44:00 - [177] - Quote Weaselior wrote: griefing them, as it were The fraternity of mission runners would like to to thank you for your services towards the implant market. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Simetraz State War Academy Caldari State 85	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:00:00 - [178] - Quote Can't be bothered to read if anybody stated this but. Hulkaggen was/is allowed. Precedent set and blessed. End of story.
Rico Minali Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 45	Posted - 2011.10.09 21:34:00 - [179] - Quote I want to report some people for griefing please, I was out shooting people with my fleet today when someone maliciously killed one of my pilots, this ruined our day an dI am unhappy. Please ban all pvpers who are not on my side.
The Apostle The Black Priests 214	Posted - 2011.10.09 22:15:00 - [180] - Quote Rico Minali wrote: I want to report some people for griefing please, I was out shooting people with my fleet today when someone maliciously killed one of my pilots, this ruined our day an dI am unhappy. Please ban all pvpers who are not on my side. Stop crying, it must have been a CTA and is fully covered by the SRF. You usually chase rats around PXF all day. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!

Kitty McKitty In Praise Of Shadows 306	Posted - 2011.10.09 22:28:00 - [181] - Quote People crying about getting griefed and hiding in high sec are maliciously interfering in my game experience. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ
Spurty V0LTA VOLTA Corp 28	Posted - 2011.10.09 22:38:00 - [182] - Quote There is nothing stopping you from starting a 16,000 man alliance called green swarm to perma war dec goons and sit in local on all their entry routes from null to Jita popping them Sounds like it may produce tears Clearly it's not hard work recruiting plonkers to bolster your numbers Future is what you make of it pod pilot FYI I often read SA forums, would never consider them less than a few very talented people with a couple of hundred sheep that'll laugh at anything that's been photo shopped a bit Don't have nightmares about them, they (mostly, but some don't care about what anyone says) work within the limits of the game world. So in conclusion Op, your move! ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Republic University Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2011.10.09 22:53:00 - [183] - Quote Kitty McKitty wrote: People crying about getting griefed and hiding in high sec are maliciously interfering in my game experience. Kitty, you look like the BF 3 slugsoldier.
s4c Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 22:55:00 - [184] - Quote Lets turn this around, all you freighter, exhumer pilots, grab a fast frig, equip with big guns and a cloak and go sit in goonswarm & co systems of deklein, cloud ring, pure blind, etc, deny their miners the simple pleasures of mining with their bots, day in day out. Watch their upgraded systems quickly dwindle down from industry/military 5, deny sanctums and ABC ores, this is the only way to combat this. F**k goons!
Kitty McKitty In Praise Of Shadows 307	Posted - 2011.10.09 23:17:00 - [185] - Quote Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote: Kitty McKitty wrote: People crying about getting griefed and hiding in high sec are maliciously interfering in my game experience. Kitty, you look like the BF 3 slugsoldier. It beats being called a Giraffe for the eleventybillionth time :P GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ
Kehro Urgus Aliastra Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:17:00 - [186] - Quote Looks more like the aliens from Close Encounters of the Third Kind but with hair.
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:20:00 - [187] - Quote The thing about the griefing rules is there are no griefing rules. The Biomassing is an exploit thing cant even be enforced cause there arent enough GMs to do it lol s4c wrote: Lets turn this around, all you freighter, exhumer pilots, grab a fast frig, equip with big guns and a cloak and go sit in goonswarm & co systems of deklein, cloud ring, pure blind, etc, deny their miners the simple pleasures of mining with their bots, day in day out. Watch their upgraded systems quickly dwindle down from industry/military 5, deny sanctums and ABC ores, this is the only way to combat this. Fk goons! PS.. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/2R-CRW Is a good place to start scary bear and his 20 or so bots will be docked up for good youre a goon alt fishing for ppl to kill arent you? For those tear producing mackinaw pilots out there that think CCP will step in and save you or step in an savethe game before Goond/DRF have all of 0.0 stagnated should realize Spurty wrote:** Don't have nightmares about them, they (mostly, but some don't care about what anyone says) work within the limits of the game world. Theyre NOT breaking the rules. I think itd be a bigger bad precident for them to interveine in on people NOT breaking the rules than not. "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 468	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:41:00 - [188] - Quote there were people in sensor-boosted machs shooting my thrashers while I was popping pods mods? ban those asshats
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:44:00 - [189] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: Theyre NOT breaking the rules. I think itd be a bigger bad precident for them to interveine in on people NOT breaking the rules than not. That fact was established a long time ago and is not in dispute. The quessie I asked is whether it should be "considered" as needing addressing. It makes me have a little giggle when people won't even entertain the thought of changing something that is so status quo let alone discuss it. The very same people who say Eve is "stagnating"....... Here's a WILD, CRAZY, STUPID, MAD, IDIOTIC thought..... How about remove any PvP in empire totally...... First reaction, all the pvp'ers will move to low and/or 0.0, hundreds of new targets and lotz of gudfites. And all the carebears can carebear..... TWO, yes, count TWO happy parties...... Whoa. Am I mad??????? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Hobogear Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:45:00 - [190] - Quote The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? You are a terrible little carebear.

Hobogear Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:47:00 - [191] - Quote The Apostle wrote: EVE Stig wrote: Theyre NOT breaking the rules. I think itd be a bigger bad precident for them to interveine in on people NOT breaking the rules than not. That fact was established a long time ago and is not in dispute. The quessie I asked is whether it should be "considered" as needing addressing. It makes me have a little giggle when people won't even entertain the thought of changing something that is so status quo let alone discuss it. The very same people who say Eve is "stagnating"....... Here's a WILD, CRAZY, STUPID, MAD, IDIOTIC thought..... How about remove any PvP in empire totally...... First reaction, all the pvp'ers will move to low and/or 0.0, hundreds of new targets and lotz of gudfites. And all the carebears can carebear..... TWO, yes, count TWO happy parties...... Whoa. Am I mad??????? Lol you like the thought of logging off to save your ship so much. Maybe you should have used that. I personally am glad yours ship was blown to bits.
Cipher Jones 82	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:48:00 - [192] - Quote Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. So if you were beaten and raped you would consider it malicious, but if you were beaten raped and robbed it would not be. Nice. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Kitty McKitty In Praise Of Shadows 307	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:49:00 - [193] - Quote People posting carebear hug tiems nonsense on the forums with the use of alts is griefing me as I cannot go in game and destroy them. This whole alt posting thing needs a rethink as it allows people to say what they like with no repercussions. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ
EVE Stig Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:49:00 - [194] - Quote The Apostle wrote: EVE Stig wrote: Theyre NOT breaking the rules. I think itd be a bigger bad precident for them to interveine in on people NOT breaking the rules than not. That fact was established a long time ago and is not in dispute. The quessie I asked is whether it should be "considered" as needing addressing. It makes me have a little giggle when people won't even entertain the thought of changing something that is so status quo let alone discuss it. The very same people who say Eve is "stagnating"....... Here's a WILD, CRAZY, STUPID, MAD, IDIOTIC thought..... How about remove any PvP in empire totally...... First reaction, all the pvp'ers will move to low and/or 0.0, hundreds of new targets and lotz of gudfites. And all the carebears can carebear..... TWO, yes, count TWO happy parties...... Whoa. Am I mad??????? Yeah, u definately mad bro Imo they should remove CONCORD and make the whole game open to PVP like 0.0 Including allowing the bigger ships in what used to be high sec. Just to get attacked if you have ****** faction standings Also, I think that if you logoff in a fight to avoid combat your ship should self destruct while youre gone with the loss of all the stuff on it. also maybe flag you as globally killable for 15 mins. - mind you I dont even actively PVP. Im a PVE-er You should have worked it harder though, you took off your mask too soon an showed the troll. "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Jovan Geldon Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire 49	Posted - 2011.10.10 00:51:00 - [195] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. So if you were beaten and raped you would consider it malicious, but if you were beaten raped and robbed it would not be. Nice. You're funny, I'll kill you last
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 01:15:00 - [196] - Quote Hobogear wrote: The Apostle wrote: EVE Stig wrote: Theyre NOT breaking the rules. I think itd be a bigger bad precident for them to interveine in on people NOT breaking the rules than not. That fact was established a long time ago and is not in dispute. The quessie I asked is whether it should be "considered" as needing addressing. It makes me have a little giggle when people won't even entertain the thought of changing something that is so status quo let alone discuss it. The very same people who say Eve is "stagnating"....... Here's a WILD, CRAZY, STUPID, MAD, IDIOTIC thought..... How about remove any PvP in empire totally...... First reaction, all the pvp'ers will move to low and/or 0.0, hundreds of new targets and lotz of gudfites. And all the carebears can carebear..... TWO, yes, count TWO happy parties...... Whoa. Am I mad??????? Lol you like the thought of logging off to save your ship so much. Maybe you should have used that. I personally am glad yours ship was blown to bits. I have never lost a ship I didn't personally commit to a fight bro. Never. Your summation of my motives is quite incorrect. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Ruah Piskonit PIE Inc. 8	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:00:00 - [197] - Quote The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? greifing is player run quality control. Since obviously standards in eve has gone through the floor, maby its time to get some of the older folks to come back and kill everyone a few times to get over the fact that its a game. I think the definition is when someone takes it from the game to RL - really ramps it up to a personal level in and out of game, harassing you verbally constantly in public and so on. . .things that are not game mechanic related or RP related. But I think you know that. Why has someone been harassing you?
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:22:00 - [198] - Quote Ruah Piskonit wrote: The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? greifing is player run quality control. Since obviously standards in eve has gone through the floor, maby its time to get some of the older folks to come back and kill everyone a few times to get over the fact that its a game. I think the definition is when someone takes it from the game to RL - really ramps it up to a personal level in and out of game, harassing you verbally constantly in public and so on. . .things that are not game mechanic related or RP related. But I think you know that. Why has someone been harassing you? Lol I wish. I'd LOVE to get my hands on some of these fools who shoot their mouth off knowing they will never have to REALLY PvP But yeah. Good point. Seperation of game and RL can be difficult for some but griefing in Eve can occur without any RL linkage. RL threats aren't griefing imho and should be met with an immediate and irrevocable banhammer. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:28:00 - [199] - Quote The Apostle's hood is griefing me. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:30:00 - [200] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: The Apostle's hood is griefing me. And your nose keep me awake at night. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!

Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:40:00 - [201] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: The Apostle's hood is griefing me. And your nose keep me awake at night. Personal attacks are not cool. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:51:00 - [202] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: The Apostle wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: The Apostle's hood is griefing me. And your nose keep me awake at night. Personal attacks are not cool. You need to reconsider your future in GSF Harlot/Scarlet - spending all day here instead of griefing hiseccers is not in line with G**n policy. Your boyfriend will be bitterly dissappointed with your performance. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:01:00 - [203] - Quote Brain-damaged emotional children whoring for attention is interfering with my game-play: My writing this response is interfering with my ability/willingness to log in--petition submitted! Oh, and Mittens: Stop flattering yourself, please. Actually, on second thought...no, don't: This hathos and the resultant Schadenfreude it elicits in me are absolutely sublime...
The Apostle The Black Priests 215	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:05:00 - [204] - Quote Lyrrashae wrote: Brain-damaged emotional children whoring for attention is interfering with my game-play: My writing this response is interfering with my ability/willingness to log in--petition submitted! Oh, and Mittens: Stop flattering yourself, please. Actually, on second thought...no, don't: This hathos and the resultant Schadenfreude it elicits in me are absolutely sublime... Had to look it up... scha-+den-+freu-+de >> satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune. Nice word. Added to dictionary Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:10:00 - [205] - Quote The Apostle wrote: You need to reconsider your future in GSF Harlot/Scarlet - spending all day here instead of griefing hiseccers is not in line with G**n policy. Your boyfriend will be bitterly dissappointed with your performance. What makes you think never stopping posting on a forum is ungoony? I've done my share of highsec warefare but targets are getting rare so I'm happy to take the war to the forums and let the hungrier dread pirates mop up the ice belts. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:13:00 - [206] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Lyrrashae wrote: Brain-damaged emotional children whoring for attention is interfering with my game-play: My writing this response is interfering with my ability/willingness to log in--petition submitted! Oh, and Mittens: Stop flattering yourself, please. Actually, on second thought...no, don't: This hathos and the resultant Schadenfreude it elicits in me are absolutely sublime... Had to look it up... scha-+den-+freu-+de >> satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune. Nice word. Added to dictionary If I may say so myself, don't forget hathos: A portmanteau of hatred and pathos, coined by the brilliant Andrew Sullivan (one of the only Conservative thinker/writers for whom I have any real respect).
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:18:00 - [207] - Quote Weaselior wrote: there were people in sensor-boosted machs shooting my thrashers while I was popping pods mods? ban those asshats Sebo'ed arty-Pest will do the same thing for 1/30th the cost...But hey, I like the shinies too, so it's all good
Kitty McKitty In Praise Of Shadows 308	Posted - 2011.10.10 03:19:00 - [208] - Quote Lyrrashae wrote: Weaselior wrote: there were people in sensor-boosted machs shooting my thrashers while I was popping pods mods? ban those asshats Sebo'ed arty-Pest will do the same thing for 1/30th the cost...But hey, I like the shinies too, so it's all good Cheap ass GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2011.10.10 04:11:00 - [209] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Imo, there really shouldnt BE a griefing policy in this game as its nearly impossible to enforce Imo, there really shouldnt BE a griefing policy in this game as its nearly impossible to prove. Fixed it for you.
Victor Dathar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2011.10.10 12:34:00 - [210] - Quote After a hard days killing miners I like to print off the killboard page of all of them, lay them out on the floor while drinking a good brandy. At the height of my euphoria I strip off and roll around on the still warm printed A4 and giggle with evil glee. When I awake hours later I am covered in ink.

War Kitten Panda McLegion 77	Posted - 2011.10.10 13:44:00 - [211] - Quote The Apostle wrote: So CCP, please explain... Under griefing rules/policy Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Current "fun" being enjoyed by a limited number of 0.0 alliances on empire players is consistently and maliciously interfering with the game experience for others. Source: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 Is the "at our discretion" statement the mitigating factor? Interfering with the game experience would be something like following you around personally and ganking anything and everything you undock in, just to make sure you never got to enjoy flying in space. Or perhaps going beyond the game and engineering some method or preventing you from even logging into the game. Ganking a certain class of ships, or pilots in general performing certain activities is PROVIDING a game experience, not interfering. HTFU This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
Xearal SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance 42	Posted - 2011.10.10 14:35:00 - [212] - Quote I for one am loving this Goon Initiative. This interdiction is the best thing I've seen happening for a long time. Our alliance has had it's share of 'griefers' and 'for the lulz' people attacking us, as well as mercs dumped on our doorstep to interfere with our manufacturing which was providing support to our PvP fleets and allies in manufacturing tons of ships and modules for use in wars. So far, that was generally boring, or annoying. This ice interdiction does hinder me somewhat, as I use a gallente POS and an Anshar, however, it does make mining for ice supplies so much more interesting. And the additional profit provided by selling new shiny ice mining gear, and gank ships to blow them up is making me a tidy sum. And when all my orders, slots etc. are running, and I have nothing better to do, I can go mine some ice which nets a good profit now when sold on the market, and it's more fun as I actually have to watch out for people blowing up my ships. The fact remains, this is not a griefing attack, it's an economical campaign, with a lot of fun added into the mix. Wether effective or not, it's effect is noticable on the markets, and the effect will be felt across the universe. I don't have figures on howmany Gallente Ice powered ships there are around, nor at howmuch fuel these babies suck up per day. But you can bet your ass that the demand for fuel is at the moment higher than supply, so stockpiles will shrink, thus creating price changes. I also have no idea howmuch this campaign is costing them, but I hope they got the isk to keep it going, and deplete those stockpiles, then we'll see just how expensive Ice can get. ( and I also want to keep selling more gank ships and ice mining gear.. ) PS: Sherpa, if you're reading this, your canes will be ready in a few days when I finish making these damn guns.. this campaign has me shifting my industrial ass into overdrive to the point where I'm thinking of skilling up a 2nd toon with industrial skills and research skills so I can meet higher demands.
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 134	Posted - 2011.10.10 15:09:00 - [213] - Quote Xearal wrote: I for one am loving this Goon Initiative. This interdiction is the best thing I've seen happening for a long time. Thanks! We don't believe we're the only ones that should have fun, glad you are too. Xearal wrote: And when all my orders, slots etc. are running, and I have nothing better to do, I can go mine some ice which nets a good profit now when sold on the market, and it's more fun as I actually have to watch out for people blowing up my ships. If I may be so bold, here's another option for when your slots are full (heh), join us! And make some ISK doing it! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19206&find=unread Xearal wrote: I also have no idea howmuch this campaign is costing them, but I hope they got the isk to keep it going, and deplete those stockpiles, then we'll see just how expensive Ice can get. ( and I also want to keep selling more gank ships and ice mining gear.. ) Don't think I'm releasing anything untoward here.. but it's cost us ~15b so far. Barely a couple of Tech moons worth of income, we could do this indefinitely. Xearal wrote: PS: Sherpa, if you're reading this, your canes will be ready in a few days when I finish making these damn guns.. this campaign has me shifting my industrial ass into overdrive to the point where I'm thinking of skilling up a 2nd toon with industrial skills and research skills so I can meet higher demands. toontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoontoon
Calgrissom Torvec 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 15:56:00 - [214] - Quote CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout.
Thomas Abernathy Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 16:01:00 - [215] - Quote EVE Stig wrote: Malcanis wrote: I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec. Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right? Considering that half the highsec carebear population are 0.0 alts, wouldn't that become confusing?
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Republic University Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:08:00 - [216] - Quote Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No. Punishing new players who are prone to make mistakes is not the solution to this and you are just another selfish,evil ,noob bashing, griefer scum who thinks of nobody but himself!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 414	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:16:00 - [217] - Quote Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No, they should make it so that any ship that gets killed by CONCORD gets double insurance payout to further incentivise the destruction of ships in highsec. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
baltec1 84	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:31:00 - [218] - Quote Tippia wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No, they should make it so that any ship that gets killed by CONCORD gets double insurance payout to further incentivise the destruction of ships in highsec. I like you're new bloodthursty view of things.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 414	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:38:00 - [219] - Quote baltec1 wrote: I like you're new bloodthursty view of things. New? That rather tells me that this topic doesn't come up as often as people seem to think, so I haven't had the opportunity to express it as often as needed, because I've had that view for years nowGÇª I've been in this game for four years. I've been the target for ganks a total of four times (and one didn't really count as GÇ£mineGÇ¥ because it was a smartbomb attack against the Perimeter gate), all of which were trivially easy to avoid and all of which failed. This is far too few and an utterly appalling score card. I still remember back when it felt slightly scary to go to Jita 4-4 GÇö I want that feeling back. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Avon Versatech Co. Raiden. 74	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:40:00 - [220] - Quote Tippia wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No, they should make it so that any ship that gets killed by CONCORD gets double insurance payout to further incentivise the destruction of ships in highsec. Nah, double the insurance payout for ships ganked by concord should go to their intended victim - then there will always be plenty of targets.

baltec1 84	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:46:00 - [221] - Quote Tippia wrote: baltec1 wrote: I like you're new bloodthursty view of things. New? That rather tells me that this topic doesn't come up as often as people seem to think, so I haven't had the opportunity to express it as often as needed, because I've had that view for years nowGÇª I've been in this game for four years. I've been the target for ganks a total of four times (and one didn't really count as GÇ£mineGÇ¥ because it was a smartbomb attack against the Perimeter gate), all of which were trivially easy to avoid and all of which failed. This is far too few and an utterly appalling score card. I still remember back when it felt slightly scary to go to Jita 4-4 GÇö I want that feeling back. I must admit that it has been far too long sinse the last jita blocade
Calgrissom Torvec 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:12:00 - [222] - Quote Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No. Punishing new players who are prone to make mistakes is not the solution to this and you are just another selfish,evil ,noob bashing, griefer scum who thinks of nobody but himself! For one I am a newb. And as a newb I know that the last thing I will do is target and shoot someone knowing concord will come and blow up my ship. No the non payout for insurance to people concorded should give them less insentive to gank.
Lord Ryan Derailleurs 27	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:28:00 - [223] - Quote Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. You mean like Faction Warfare? I thought it was an intended game feature. -á I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 414	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:33:00 - [224] - Quote Calgrissom Torvec wrote: No the non payout for insurance to people concorded should give them less insentive to gank. GÇªand why on earth would you give less incentives to ganks when, if anything, there needs to be more of them? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 481	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:40:00 - [225] - Quote Calgrissom Torvec wrote: Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No. Punishing new players who are prone to make mistakes is not the solution to this and you are just another selfish,evil ,noob bashing, griefer scum who thinks of nobody but himself! For one I am a newb. And as a newb I know that the last thing I will do is target and shoot someone knowing concord will come and blow up my ship. No the non payout for insurance to people concorded should give them less insentive to gank. hopefully i get to pod you
Kengutsi Akira 27	Posted - 2011.10.10 23:08:00 - [226] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tippia wrote: baltec1 wrote: I like you're new bloodthursty view of things. New? That rather tells me that this topic doesn't come up as often as people seem to think, so I haven't had the opportunity to express it as often as needed, because I've had that view for years nowGÇª I've been in this game for four years. I've been the target for ganks a total of four times (and one didn't really count as GÇ£mineGÇ¥ because it was a smartbomb attack against the Perimeter gate), all of which were trivially easy to avoid and all of which failed. This is far too few and an utterly appalling score card. I still remember back when it felt slightly scary to go to Jita 4-4 GÇö I want that feeling back. I must admit that it has been far too long since the last jita blockade Think Goons could hold a Jita blockade AND keep up the Gallente ice interdiction? Or did they give that up already? Tippia wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: No the non payout for insurance to people concorded should give them less insentive to gank. GÇªand why on earth would you give less incentives to ganks when, if anything, there needs to be more of them? Yeah... but really they need to remove the insurance payout. Call it an "underworld gift" instead. Insurance has a funny way of looking at someone driving the insured vehicle to a location, blowing it up for the purpose of killing all those in reach. Especially the third or fourth time. edit: since not sinse blockade not blocade (sorry OCD)
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 508	Posted - 2011.10.11 00:27:00 - [227] - Quote insurance also looks at you funny when you ask to insure something for use in combat
Kengutsi Akira 29	Posted - 2011.10.11 00:42:00 - [228] - Quote Weaselior wrote: insurance also looks at you funny when you ask to insure something for use in combat also true. remove insurance for all combat ships, only give it to miners and industrialists. Sound good to me Funny a Goon would support something like that though
Wacktopia Sicarius. Legion of The Damned. 1	Posted - 2011.10.11 01:36:00 - [229] - Quote I assume OP is referring to the Goons attack on Gallente ice space. This is not malicious but instead it is an attempt to raise the price of ice products for their profit. I do not see this as a malicious attack.
The Apostle The Black Priests 220	Posted - 2011.10.11 01:47:00 - [230] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: I assume OP is referring to the Goons attack on Gallente ice space. This is not malicious but instead it is an attempt to raise the price of ice products for their profit. I do not see this as a malicious attack. Actually no. OP was raising the point about future such "malicious" attacks, rightly or wrongly. The fact it's GSF in this case is not actually relevant. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!

Kengutsi Akira 30	Posted - 2011.10.11 02:01:00 - [231] - Quote Lord Ryan wrote: Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. You mean like Faction Warfare? I thought it was an intended game feature. Intended game features become bugs when inconvenient. EVEN to CCP. see the "bug" where you continued training skills after your account went unpaid. This guy's sig makes me wanna find someone with Tron tattoos all over their body... I think thats just the Lortabs mixed Autism talking tho
Aramatheia Traveler 52 D-Collective 4	Posted - 2011.10.11 02:34:00 - [232] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Jovan Geldon wrote: Quote: At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. Emphasis mine. Economic warfare is still warfare; it's only malicious if you are gaining literally nothing from it. Firstly, no lost Hulks. Wouldn't complain if I did. Be my own fault. And for the record, the definition of malicious, consistent and interfering are NOT related to anything economic. The whole "bot kills" and "commodity throttling" is all smoke and mirrors for consistent and malicious bully-boy behaviour. This "campaign" is not random shoots and corp kills - it is a VERY deliberate and co-ordinated approach that is interfering with the play of others. For mine, if what the G**N's are doing is NOT deemed griefing then NOTHING in game can be called griefing - ever. I'm just after a clear definition of the rule. I see it as a topic for debate. As far as i understood it anything in the game that didnt involve hacking was fine, i mean you can fc an incursion ecm the logis wipe the fleet run back and loot the crap and thats fine cause the fleet didnt cover thier ass-ets good enough. Same as ppl infiltrating corps and stealing trillions of isk in cash/stuff. In the grand scheme of things a couple of bored guys blowing up miners is barely a drop in the ocean to what other people have done. As for breaking the market, assuming they do destroy anything i dont really see that as anything more than a universal financial crisis. Better get your stimulus packages ready!
Shadow51585 Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 0	Posted - 2011.10.13 05:03:00 - [233] - Quote Calgrissom Torvec wrote: Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote: Calgrissom Torvec wrote: CCP should just make it so any ship killed by concord does not get its insurance payout. No. Punishing new players who are prone to make mistakes is not the solution to this and you are just another selfish,evil ,noob bashing, griefer scum who thinks of nobody but himself! For one I am a newb. And as a newb I know that the last thing I will do is target and shoot someone knowing concord will come and blow up my ship. No the non payout for insurance to people concorded should give them less insentive to gank. Two words: Moon Mining When your alliance makes billions upon billions upon billions per day in passive income, this means exactly nothing to the ganker. Especially when the ship you just lost is paid for by said alliance. ISK means nothing to the average Goonswarm pilot and rightly so. He is free to lead a life in the pursuit of delicious grief. And the getting is very very good at the moment.
Sverige Pahis Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 78	Posted - 2011.10.13 06:06:00 - [234] - Quote why does he keep saying g**ns idgi
The Apostle The Black Priests 267	Posted - 2011.10.13 06:12:00 - [235] - Quote Sverige Pahis wrote: why does he keep saying gns idgi Hey. Well spotted I think I did it 'cos Gns love people posting about them and jump on to troll the thread to pieces. Can't have people saying good things about you now hey? I'm hoping it's a bit hard to search for Gns when it's spelled Gns. Now ya know of my clever plot, I'm going to spell it G..ns or G$$ns or some other such. You guys are joyous.... Really. You are. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
Kugutsumen Dot Com La Blue Girl KUGUTSUMEN. 8	Posted - 2011.10.13 07:46:00 - [236] - Quote Komen wrote: I know, I've been lurking Kugu the better part of 2 years now. Eventually I hope my posting skills will be up to snuff, and might register and take part. Please don't.
Florestan Bronstein United Engineering Services 100	Posted - 2011.10.13 08:00:00 - [237] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Sverige Pahis wrote: why does he keep saying gns idgi Hey. Well spotted I think I did it 'cos Gns love people posting about them and jump on to troll the thread to pieces. Can't have people saying good things about you now hey? I'm hoping it's a bit hard to search for Gns when it's spelled Gns. Now ya know of my clever plot, I'm going to spell it G..ns or G$$ns or some other such. You guys are joyous.... Really. You are. G-d
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 551	Posted - 2011.10.13 08:02:00 - [238] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Sverige Pahis wrote: why does he keep saying gns idgi Hey. Well spotted I think I did it 'cos Gns love people posting about them and jump on to troll the thread to pieces. Can't have people saying good things about you now hey? I'm hoping it's a bit hard to search for Gns when it's spelled Gns. Now ya know of my clever plot, I'm going to spell it G..ns or G$$ns or some other such. You guys are joyous.... Really. You are. If you want to stop people using googlesearch to find ludicrous tear-threads, you'll need to change your name to pstl* Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 153	Posted - 2011.10.13 16:25:00 - [239] - Quote i absolutely love this thread there is nothing like pubbies ~angry~ about not being able to mine ice
Skunk Gracklaw GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 63	Posted - 2011.10.13 22:50:00 - [240] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Think Goons could hold a Jita blockade AND keep up the Gallente ice interdiction? Or did they give that up already? The Gallente ice interdiction is still going strong. We're having trouble actually finding exhumers so today we moved up to killing Orcas because some dude wrote a guide to fighting back against us and said Orcas were completely safe in highsec.

Llanthas Dads Of Gaming 8	Posted - 2011.10.15 07:10:00 - [241] - Quote I think this thread deserves an answer.
Alpheias Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 83	Posted - 2011.10.15 07:19:00 - [242] - Quote Llanthas wrote: I think this thread deserves an answer. The only answer I am interested in is The Apostle's psych exam, is he a paranoid delusional clown with downs, or is he onto something. GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 498	Posted - 2011.10.15 10:35:00 - [243] - Quote Llanthas wrote: I think this thread deserves an answer. It has already been answered. In fact, the answer was given before the thread was even created. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Vashan Tar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 21	Posted - 2011.10.15 12:14:00 - [244] - Quote The Apostle wrote: Andski wrote: Look at people crying about nonconsensual PvP Who said anything about nonconsenual PvP? It's not "PvP" in the true sense of the word anyway? Player vs Player? Yep that does actually appear to be the true sense of the word. Unless it's not a player getting shot, it's a bot, in which case we're doing Darius JOHNSONS work for him like the conscientious space citizens we are!
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 0	Posted - 2011.11.17 11:07:00 - [245] - Quote Blue Ice can be found in low/null you know ? Harassing little corps in highsec is just... oh wait, no tears


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