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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
613
   |
Posted - 2013.01.05 14:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Call me a whiner, and at the expected protest of the logi's, but why did CCP grant such an excessive rep range to all the logistic ships in the game? Seems like it makes maneuvering and mobility less of a factor and encourages more of a boring rock/paper/scissors game.
yk |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12482
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 14:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
So that they can provide their services to brawles without having to go into brawl range themselves and without having to closely match the manoeuvring and darting about that the DPS ships will occasionally have to engage in.
It's a back-row unit; it needs to be able to reach not just the front row of the friendly units, but the front row of the enemy as well. 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
560
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
How do you think that positioning would matter in the least if the logis had to be facehugging their targets?
|
Rain6639
Team Evil
18
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 14:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
suck my logi. suck it
if you need me, I'll be on youtube watching russian car accident videos |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1084
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:suck my logi. suck it
Will you wash it first?
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Rain6639
Team Evil
18
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
you have matching tattoos with OP. are you in league with OP
do you come bearing logi tears
do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
if you need me, I'll be on youtube watching russian car accident videos |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1087
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:you have matching tattoos with OP. are you in league with OP
do you come bearing logi tears
do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
Mine are blue and shiny. Way better than OP.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
407
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
this is awesome, though, how often do you see logi tears
not enough, imo. it's my favorite role.
AT LAST!
http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ ||-áVincent Athena, I made something for you: http://i.imgur.com/hrxcc.jpg |
Rain6639
Team Evil
29
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
first order of business in new accounts has been training perfect logi for the first year
this is awesome
__________________________________________________________
holy... how long has that "Top" arrow been there (on the bottom left)
lets me quickly skip back to OP's logi tears
if you need me, I'll be on youtube watching russian car accident videos |
Rain6638
Team Evil
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
i heard someone is crying about logi? |
Rain6635
Team Evil
48
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
hey OP, you should see when we spider and there's no way to break us
T1 logi in your base, killing ur doodz
http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ |
Rain6636
Team Evil
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
o noes! the logi spider has cast its web!
http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1095
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:this is awesome, though, how often do you see logi tears
not enough, imo. it's my favorite role.
AT LAST!
*Sneaks in a classic*
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
620
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So that they can provide their services to brawles without having to go into brawl range themselves and without having to closely match the manoeuvring and darting about that the DPS ships will occasionally have to engage in. It's a back-row unit; it needs to be able to reach not just the front row of the friendly units, but the front row of the enemy as well.
Wow Sherlock, no duh ... that's the way CCP create them. The question is, *why* CCP felt that was the best way to created them? Would there be more interesting ways to employ the 'healer' concept rather than a standoff uber ranged, uber tank?
Kahega Amielden wrote:How do you think that positioning would matter in the least if the logis had to be facehugging their targets?
Maybe your right. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference at all and everyone would just hug the logi and be stationary. I don't know.
I'm just trying to conceptionalize something I've noticed when logis are on the field in the fights I've been in, specifically, that everytime I'm in a fight and a logi or logi group shows up, the fight instantly becomes less interesting and degenerates to either a dull DPS vs rep equation or a rock/paper/scissors. All the interesting tatics go to dust and the fight becomes more boring.
Am I wrong? I'm not sure how to placement my finger on it, but notice that even in the Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open the number of Logis on the field had to be limited by rule (1 per team) because if they weren't limited, and more logis were involved, the matches would be less interesting and more mudane. CCP knew that.
Also notice that almost all of the most interesting solo, or small gang videos out there are logi free engagement? When logi's are involved the fights are boring.
My own experience is that the uber rep, resist, and range these things get actually makes the fights dull instead of more interesting IMHO. Not sure if reducing range would make logi-supported engagements more dynamic... so that maneurverability was more of a factor, but maybe not, I'm not sure what would.
My 2 isk
yk |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12487
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Wow Sherlock, no duh ... that's the way CCP create them. The question is, *why* CCP felt that was the best way to created them? Convention. That's how they always work, most likely because it has been shown way back in the fledgeling boardgame days that touch-range healing was horrible.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Aramatheia
European Nuthouse
94
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
i think of it this way, how are you going to rep a fleet of 1000 ships if all the logis have to be within 10-15 or even 20km, you'd need 1000 logis for each 1000 combat ships because there would be never ending out of range issues. |
Rain6639
Team Evil
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP doesn't even know the half of it.
if you need me, I'll be on youtube watching russian car accident videos |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
508
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 16:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Tippia wrote:So that they can provide their services to brawles without having to go into brawl range themselves and without having to closely match the manoeuvring and darting about that the DPS ships will occasionally have to engage in. It's a back-row unit; it needs to be able to reach not just the front row of the friendly units, but the front row of the enemy as well. Wow Sherlock, no duh ... that's the way CCP create them. The question is, *why* CCP felt that was the best way to created them? Would there be more interesting ways to employ the 'healer' concept rather than a standoff uber ranged, uber tank? Kahega Amielden wrote:How do you think that positioning would matter in the least if the logis had to be facehugging their targets?
Maybe your right. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference at all and everyone would just hug the logi and be stationary. I don't know. I'm just trying to conceptionalize something I've noticed when logis are on the field in the fights I've been in, specifically, that everytime I'm in a fight and a logi or logi group shows up, the fight instantly becomes less interesting and degenerates to either a dull DPS vs rep equation or a rock/paper/scissors. All the interesting tatics go to dust and the fight becomes more boring. Am I wrong? I'm not sure how to place my finger on it, but notice that even in the Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open the number of Logis on the field had to be limited by rule (1 per team) because if they weren't limited, and more logis were involved, the matches would be less interesting and more mudane. CCP knew that. Also notice that almost all of the most interesting solo, or small gang videos out there are logi free engagements? When logi's are involved the fights are boring. My own experience is that the uber rep, resist, and range these things get actually makes the fights dull instead of more interesting IMHO. Not sure if reducing range would make logi-supported engagements more dynamic... so that maneurverability was more of a factor, but maybe not, I'm not sure what would. My 2 isk yk
until dec 4th there used to be a counter to logistic ships, an often disregarded and overlooked counter
the Cerberus had a massive sniping range for a reason, now it really does desperately need that future possible T2 rebalance  |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12489
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 16:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:until dec 4th there used to be a counter to logistic ships, an often disregarded and overlooked counter the Cerberus had a massive sniping range for a reason, now it really does desperately need that future possible T2 rebalance It still has more than enough to deal with your average logi.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
699
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 16:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maybe because CCP want that people start use mixed ship types on field like mixed short range + snipers fleet, instead of drop 20 blasters or pulse monster and kill everyone on range after jump, or while gate camp.
EvE isn't game, its style of living. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
620
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 17:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tarvos Telesto wrote:Maybe because CCP want that people start use mixed ship types on field like mixed short range + snipers fleet, instead of drop 20 blasters or pulse monster armaggedons and kill everyone on range after jump, or while gate camp.
Except that they were also given a sig radius so small (half the size of even a strategic cruiser) that most ranged guns have issues hitting them...
... not sure why CCP decided to design that in as well...
yk |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
620
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 17:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:YuuKnow wrote:Wow Sherlock, no duh ... that's the way CCP create them. The question is, *why* CCP felt that was the best way to created them? Convention. That's how they always work, most likely because it has been shown way back in the fledgeling boardgame days that touch-range healing was horrible.
Oh, boardgame conviention. That explains it... because board games *always* makes the most awesome internet spaceship games. Its so obvious.
yk |
Pewty McPew
Pillage Plunder And Rape Industries
65
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 17:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Drive by repping |
Rain6639
Team Evil
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 17:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Tarvos Telesto wrote:Maybe because CCP want that people start use mixed ship types on field like mixed short range + snipers fleet, instead of drop 20 blasters or pulse monster armaggedons and kill everyone on range after jump, or while gate camp. Except that they were also given a sig radius so small (half the size of even a strategic cruiser) that most ranged guns have issues hitting them... ... not sure why CCP decided to design that in as well... yk
what do you think would make it fair, in terms of sig radius. just curious
if you need me, I'll be on youtube watching russian car accident videos |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
622
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:YuuKnow wrote:Tarvos Telesto wrote:Maybe because CCP want that people start use mixed ship types on field like mixed short range + snipers fleet, instead of drop 20 blasters or pulse monster armaggedons and kill everyone on range after jump, or while gate camp. Except that they were also given a sig radius so small (half the size of even a strategic cruiser) that most ranged guns have issues hitting them... ... not sure why CCP decided to design that in as well... yk what do you think would make it fair, in terms of sig radius. just curious
I'm thinking that they should have the same sig radius of any other cruiser. That would be fair wouldn't it?
On a side note. I'm curious to whether anyone watching this video would actually say that it was a cool fight. To me it is an example of the problem of how boring logi fights are.
yk |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
146
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:On a side note. I'm curious to whether anyone watching this video would actually say that it was a cool fight. To me it is an example of the problem of how boring logi fights are.
The other guys would probably say it was a cool fight. It also shows the true problem you seam to have with logis. You can't just "Guys, if ya have time, shoot se Harbinger", you should probably switch all at the same time to take them down with an alpha strike before the logi pilot can switch the rep. Well in this case there was not enough dmg available anyway to brake their armor buffers. A good FC would have noticed that. |
Steven Seaga1
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Tippia wrote:So that they can provide their services to brawles without having to go into brawl range themselves and without having to closely match the manoeuvring and darting about that the DPS ships will occasionally have to engage in. It's a back-row unit; it needs to be able to reach not just the front row of the friendly units, but the front row of the enemy as well. Wow Sherlock, no duh ... that's the way CCP create them. The question is, *why* CCP felt that was the best way to created them? Would there be more interesting ways to employ the 'healer' concept rather than a standoff uber ranged, uber tank? Kahega Amielden wrote:How do you think that positioning would matter in the least if the logis had to be facehugging their targets?
Maybe your right. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference at all and everyone would just hug the logi and be stationary. I don't know. I'm just trying to conceptionalize something I've noticed when logis are on the field in the fights I've been in, specifically, that everytime I'm in a fight and a logi or logi group shows up, the fight instantly becomes less interesting and degenerates to either a dull DPS vs rep equation or a rock/paper/scissors. All the interesting tatics go to dust and the fight becomes more boring. Am I wrong? I'm not sure how to place my finger on it, but notice that even in the Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open the number of Logis on the field had to be limited by rule (1 per team) because if they weren't limited, and more logis were involved, the matches would be less interesting and more mudane. CCP knew that. Also notice that almost all of the most interesting solo, or small gang videos out there are logi free engagements? When logi's are involved the fights are boring. My own experience is that the uber rep, resist, and range these things get actually makes the fights dull instead of more interesting IMHO. Not sure if reducing range would make logi-supported engagements more dynamic... so that maneurverability was more of a factor, but maybe not, I'm not sure what would. My 2 isk yk
Healer? GTFO to WoW and ball up
|
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
622
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 21:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Steven Seaga1 wrote:Healer? GTFO to WoW and ball up
Never played it. Not my thing.
But the "repair" that CCP created is identical to the 'healer' that almost all other MMOPGs have. Problem is, that when CCP brought in the Eve version its 'healer' it had the opposite effect and took the game complexity down a notch IMHO.
yk |
Hannah Flex
Elite Market PvP Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 21:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
YOU LEAVE MY LOGI ALONE, THE FIRST BUFF IN YEARS OMG |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12493
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 21:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Oh, boardgame conviention. That explains it... because board games *always* makes the most awesome internet spaceship games. Its so obvious. It's been the foundation for pretty much all of them, so yes.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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