Logi on the field? Get on that **** with damps, ECM and have something burn out to them to web then **** out of them so you can dispose of them.

Except that they were also given a sig radius so small (half the size of even a strategic cruiser) that most ranged guns have issues hitting them...

... not sure why CCP decided to design that in as well...

yk

Primary is another name for this right ?

I'm just trying to conceptionalize something I've noticed when logis are on the field in the fights I've been in, specifically, that everytime I'm in a fight and a logi or logi group shows up, the fight instantly becomes less interesting and degenerates to either a dull DPS vs rep equation or a rock/paper/scissors. All the interesting tatics go to dust and the fight becomes more boring.

Am I wrong?

I'm thinking that they should have the same sig radius of any other cruiser. That would be fair wouldn't it?

On a side note. I'm curious to whether anyone watching this video would actually say that it was a cool fight. To me it is an example of the problem of how boring logi fights are.

yk

Call me a whiner, and at the expected protest of the logi's, but why did CCP grant such an excessive rep range to all the logistic ships in the game? Seems like it makes maneuvering and mobility less of a factor and encourages more of a boring rock/paper/scissors game.

yk

Remote Sensor Damps. Problem solved. Moving on...

What's to stop them from dampening you first.

Does it make sense that a logistics CRUISER can heal for full effect at maximum range, often outside the effective combat range of the opposing force, never missing, no optimal/falloff/tracking to deal with?

And, does it really even make sense that there is a ship next to the ship that you're destroying that is repairing it faster than you can destroy it.

Call me a whiner

ok, but their signature radius is, give or take 15%, the same as their T1 counterpart. so you think they should have a sig radius penalty? you still haven't thrown out a solid number..

and as for your original topic: in your opinion, what range bonus would make it fair?

I'm trying to assemble the fair logi cruiser you have in mind. help me out

What's to stop them from dampening you first. In all likelihood, the logistics ship is the one with the locking range advantage. Even in battleship fleets, if the logistics ship is behind the front line, there is that much more distance that you have to cover before you can even lock and dampen them, i.e. walk your ewar right into the meatgrinder in the hopes of dampening 1 or 2 logis for the few seconds you have before they are primed.

Does it make sense that a logistics CRUISER can heal for full effect at maximum range, often outside the effective combat range of the opposing force, never missing, no optimal/falloff/tracking to deal with? Isn't the balance supposed to be that cruisers, although fast, are thinner skinned with limited range, capacitor, and fitting resources? Doesn't a cruiser that heals and tanks far outside it's weight class break that balance?

Imagine a ship that had a 1000% bonus to it's weapons range (autocannons, for example). Imagine a ship that equipped weapons and/or modules of a larger class, Tier 3 battlecruisers and stealth bombers come to mind. But, also imagine something like a Myrmidon with a large armor repairer or a Rokh with a capital class shield booster.

And, does it really even make sense that there is a ship next to the ship that you're destroying that is repairing it faster than you can destroy it. Isn't that kind of like machine gunning someone, only to have a medic standing next to him repairing his bodily tissue faster than your killing machine could damage it? Or a tornado blowing a house down, but losing the race to a construction team who were patching it up? It's almost as if "logistics" ships are . . . magical fairies casting spells of healing.

Yeah, that's the current 'meta'. It boils down to a rock/paper/scissors.

Logi beats DPS
EWAR beats Logi
DPS beats EWAR

but in the end it becomes predictable and uninteresting.

The other guys would probably say it was a cool fight. It also shows the true problem you seam to have with logis. You can't just "Guys, if ya have time, shoot se Harbinger", you should probably switch all at the same time to take them down with an alpha strike before the logi pilot can switch the rep. Well in this case there was not enough dmg available anyway to brake their armor buffers. A good FC would have noticed that.

Probably because they won.

Logis are good in that it allows for smaller gangs to be able to engage larger gangs which is good. But they're are other ways of fighting outnumbered too. All I'm saying is that logi free engagements are more interesting because when logis are involved its becomes a simple DPS vs RepRate from what I've experienced. Compare the perma-rep/Logi engagements above with a logi-free engagement of Kil2's or one of Duncan Tanner's engagements here with anti-logi tatics here.

yk

Compare the perma-rep/Logi engagements above with a logi-free engagement of Kil2's or one of Duncan Tanner's engagements here with anti-logi tatics here.

yk

[Maybe an optimal range and falloff penalty to reps are in order. CCP should consider it.

Call me a whiner, and at the expected protest of the logi's, but why did CCP grant such an excessive rep range to all the logistic ships in the game? Seems like it makes maneuvering and mobility less of a factor and encourages more of a boring rock/paper/scissors game.

yk

I'm thinking sig radius for both T1 and T2 Logis should be about 120m. Range bonus 500% (instead of 1000%) for T1 and only at 100% range bonus for T2.

yk

Primary is another name for this right ?

What for?

To make logi fights more variable and dynamic.

Yes, they are indeed interesting, i love Kil2's videos. But he does solo PvP, he would probably never engage a group that has logi ships no matter what the rep range is. He has very clever positioning and separation tactics and many things more that is just awesome. But EVE PvP is diverse and not only solo PvP makes for interesting fights. The Rooks and Kings videos are a good example. The triage carrier is the ultimate logi ship. The fight is totally different and the skills involved are totally different than what kil2 does, but they are still interesting. Maybe not in your eyes.

If you don't like fights with logis in fleet then don't engage in those fights. What you can't do is come in here and demand a nerf to logi ships just because you only like fast "we just kick each others shins"-fights. There are other people that play EVE BECAUSE its has that diverse PvP possibilities.