Test calls other elitist

0/10

Not everyone in Test thinks the same way man. You should read the post I just made in the Miner Bumping thread for an example of that,as well as my posting history.

Test is like Goons is like the Mafia. In the employment record, in for life and it's better to be knows as Test or Goons than to be known as ex Test or ex Goons so while you might be willing to go against the grwain, don't become a liability

Translation: We won EVE and its getting kinda boring, and boredom causes problems. Give us entertainment as you struggle in vain against our botting empire

dunno why i read this thread, i want a refund.

Have to agree on the newbie/can baiting/player retention stuff.

I've always felt that we NEED MORE PLAYERS and not that we should run those just starting EVE off the server. There SHOULD be protection in place for brand new players.

If you want to coat new players in cotton wool, be my guest, but all your going to create is the next generation of carebears that expect that kind of protection and threaten to unsub when they don't get it. These are, in fact, my favourite kind of tears, so I welcome these kinds of players for entertainment value. However, new players have sufficient protection in their 0.9-1.0 starter systems. Let's not forget that every one of us have been a "newbie" at some stage, and a lot of the older players didn't have the "protection" available today when they were new. It was "here's your pod, now go find a ship" as far as I'm aware.

Blah blah blah...
I do not like griefing/trolling/etc...thats why i joined test...

I believe Hulkageddon, Jita Interdiction, and bots are the way to the future.
We will get tons of new players to join the game with how my alliance and our masters act.

**** this post, **** you, **** test and **** goons

Wow.... and people call goons neurotic. Or is that sociopathic? I can't remember.

[quote=Mac Omac]I have spoken with many people in TEST and Goonswarm who truly love this game and want to see it grow.

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

Actually, there is one thing that I thought of after I wrote my post.

None of the newbie hostility is a new thing in EVE, and the same goes for people acting like jackasses. This has been the case since day 1.

And yet, the amount of subscribers increases each year.

[quote=Skydell][quote=Max Doobie]
I BELIEVE in letting people play as they will.
I BELIEVE everyone has their niche in the great game of ours.

I BELIEVE in letting people play as they will, as long as i agree with it

If you want to coat new players in cotton wool, be my guest, but all your going to create is the next generation of carebears that expect that kind of protection and threaten to unsub when they don't get it. These are, in fact, my favourite kind of tears, so I welcome these kinds of players for entertainment value. However, new players have sufficient protection in their 0.9-1.0 starter systems. Let's not forget that every one of us have been a "newbie" at some stage, and a lot of the older players didn't have the "protection" available today when they were new. It was "here's your pod, now go find a ship" as far as I'm aware.

Actually, there is one thing that I thought of after I wrote my post.

None of the newbie hostility is a new thing in EVE, and the same goes for people acting like jackasses. This has been the case since day 1.

And yet, the amount of subscribers increases each year.

5. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a long-winded, redundant post, often filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.


6. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.

And there you hit it on the nail.The way players are treated ingame is nothing different from what it used to be.We allways had asshats looking to ruin your day wich is what is so attractive about eve tbh.


The problem isn't with the a change of treatment , it is with how people respond to such treatments these days.

no the problem is theres a lot more asshats now and its become normal, its been accepted and encouraged for a few years now, the only thing thats changed is people are getting sick of it

Actually, it's the other way round.
There are more and more people not understanding what the game stands for.
Look at the advertisements. That's the reality of the game.
They ignore that and whine about things that are perfectly natural within this environment.

The weak die, the strong survive. It's natural, but they can't deal with that,
because they think they are smart. They think they are strong.

We show them that they are wrong ... and that's why they whine, cry and rage.

it is NOW yes but it never used to be, this used to be a good community, sure you had some of the same stuff but it was rare then goons happened

yeah the problem here ... everyone thinks HE knows how the game would be great if all players play like him

but it would be great to see a Big War between HBC and CFC .. just sayin lie Op said .. do your part :))

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

i personaly dont believe many veteran players care about the game

they have already been through everything,many of the probably dont play a lot,so if eve is closed they wont miss it because they have already experienced it all

i have become very cynical over the years and i think most people are giant a55holes who doesnt give a flying duck about anything - you need to have a special mindset to be helpfull and loving human being,instead of being "omg i love tears" kind of internet tough guy

if you want to help newbies,do it,but dont try to appeal veterans on GD - you will get trolled even if you have good intentions

Translation: We won EVE and its getting kinda boring, and boredom causes problems. Give us entertainment as you struggle in vain against our botting empire

You should not let someone else make you become cynical.

Also, it does not take a "special mindset" to be helpful and loving human being. We are born to be social and help each other, it's what made us win against the most incredible odds, what made our species become the top dog despite we are physically weak and fragile.

Don't let the "modern times" lose the light of hope, because the past was even harsher, hope of life was like 40 old max, yet people had more confidence in the future. The current bleak "reality" is so only because there are ill motivated people convincing the others about giving up, letting themselves won, let the worst human kind win.


Finally, a great essay from one of the great living RL traders that may also be applied to these forums:


ALWAYS BE POSITIVE.
NEVER trade if you are not in a POSITIVE frame of mind.
NEVER approach anything to do with trading if you are NOT in a POSITIVE frame of mind. NEVER trade if
you are ill, have bad thoughts or feel bad about yourself or if you are angry with anyone.
The idiots on the various threads who are negative and destructive will never make it in life let alone in
trading. IGNORE them and do NOT get involved or inter-act with them. Instead, surround yourself with
POSITIVE people with the SAME goals and ambitions as YOU. POSITIVE people provide SUPPORT and
ENCOURAGEMENT while negative people provide criticism and destruction.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS be POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE in trading and in your life and you will never go
wrong.


Strat

and there you are dead wrong
either you are trolling or you only care for yor your own selfish selfgratification
As far i know almost every new player knows what he or she is getting into when they first subscribe into EvE
EvE has that reputation , to be harsh , and unforgivable to the new unsuspected player, just look atother game forums , when ever they mention EvE everybody shivers and get scared

Every game needs new players and EvE isn't different , and when those players actually stay beyond their tutorials it is better for all of us and not only CCP

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

So why are you whining like a spoiled little brat about people being "elitist" (not even sure you know the meaning of the word by the way you use it) if you believe in letting people play as they will?



There fixed it for you.

P.S. EVE is doing fine, but thanks for worrying!

Well come on....there are many null sec corps/alliances with ridiculous SP reqs designed to shut out new players. We accept new players, then these elitists wonder why we grow. TEST and Goons are just examples that prove the hell out of my point: New alts are good for growth.

wow, that's embarrassing.

Hope they kick you out ...

Edit:


I actually have something to contribute.

Today i've shot a 2.5 billion ISK pod.

He convo'd me.

He wondered how that was possible and i explained to him that highsec isn't safe.
CONCORD won't rescue him in time. He understood that and accepted his mistake.

A few days ago i've shot a 200 million isk pod ... and that guy whined. Called me a ****
and whatever. I tried to reason with him, that it was his own fault, that he is not safe in highsec.
It's like driving a mercedes through the bronx and then blaming everybody else for taking advantage of his idiocy.


So there's one guy who understands the reality of the game and there's another who doesn't.
There's one guy who understands what the game is *advertised for* and another who doesn't.

There is one guy ACCEPTING WHAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT and another who doesn't !


Now take a goooooooooood guess who we need to get rid of ..................

Test is like Goons is like the Mafia. In the employment record, in for life and it's better to be knows as Test or Goons than to be known as ex Test or ex Goons so while you might be willing to go against the grwain, don't become a liability

You guys can rage all you want, but as a player new to Eve and Null, Dreddit and TEST have been awesome about getting me on my feet and answering all my dumbass newbie questions. OP is right, and there are many players who see the value in making the play experience for new capsuleers a positive one, and it goes a long way in retaining players past that 2-3 week trial.

I'm sure many other corps are like this, and to all those other capsuleers out there helping your fellow newbros feel welcome and useful, Thank You.

Fixed that for you

Seriously though,what exactly are you excpecting to come out of this?

Also, it's your alliance that is responsible for a nice part of griefing new players in game and on the forums becoming so popular. Clean your own doorstep before pointing to dirt on the street.

You know, leading by example and all that. I'm sure you will have a lot of success with that in your alliance.

Be nice and happy to everyone!

I hope you're no longer participating in the Orangj Memorial Forum then.

OP is in TEST and saying this bullcrap...

Well maybe if you guys didnt set your alliance up to have a "us(reddit) vs them (everyone who isnt from SA or reddit)" attitude then you wouldn't have this issue.

Quit eve, you're a part of the ******* problem that you're complaining about OP.

The only corp in Test that requires Reddit account is Dreddit.

I have been an active voice for inclusion for a long time in EVE and other MMOs. I am against shunning new people. I didn't like it when it was done to me, and I don't want it done to others.

Well then keep up with your tone in your community. Here, you're trolling. (or think you're trolling)

We include everyone in our trolling list.

HTFU and go back to Jita local if GD is too harsh and cold for you.

You? That'd be my guess.

Not because you podded them.

It's because I'm well aware of your posting history. You have got to be one of the most obnoxious and immature people I have ever encountered. You're probably a 95 pound ginger with zits, and you use these forums to verbally assault people in order to mask your inadequacies.

... TLDR: If you can't read this, then It's not geared to you anyway, for obvious reasons. If you can'ttake time to read a forum post then I sure as hell don't expect you to take the time to help anyone.

Well then keep up with your tone in your community. Here, you're trolling. (or think you're trolling)

Take note newbies.

"Old", "hardened", and "veteran" players (who hide behind NPCs in highsec) want to see you be trolled, griefed, and ultimately quit the game. They want to see the large groups of new players in TEST and Goonswarm fight and dissolve so they can munch on them individually. They want to see nullsec nerfed drastically so that they can come and kill us at no risk to themselves.

But together in nullsec, we are strong because we can group up and fight the evildoers ourselves without having to worry about elite player only mechanics like "station games". And then they whine and moan about us making nullsec a "big blue donut" because there are no easy free kills for them anymore! And they cry about how nullsec is full of "botters" and "RMT". But deep down inside, we all know exactly what's going on.

Blues most of null.

Complains about being bored.

Is TEST.

I am not trolling. That is why I am posting on my main character. It's because I quite frankly couldn't give a crap what people think about me speaking my mind. TEST, Goons Or anyone else. I am not anyone's flunkie. I believe what I believe. I have no reason troll in regards to new players. I take this very seriously. Again, because I truly love this game.

Another factor in EVE is the fact that the majority of player live in high sec (i've seen numbers touted from anyone from 70-80% of the player base) which means the vast majority of EVE does not want to participate in non-consensual pvp.

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

There's a huge difference between pilots and players unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your view).

A good player can adapt and use things to his advantage (tool usage, think outside the box, play an alt differently than his main).

A good pilot knows what he has and can only use those to his advantage.

One is not necessarily the other.

One of the biggest problems to the mindset of a good pilot versus a good player is the idea that you need to be an ass to be good or popular.

Makes you a bad player, even if you're a good pilot.

The best players are the ones who can act and play a game to be playing the game, not letting the game play them.

That's real talk bruh. Respect.

Without new players eve will eventually die, simple as.
Although as a bittervet i dont want anything changed so much it screws me for all my hard earned years

Hey, I've read sayings from your bitter vet fellah's claiming skill points mean nothing, so what's the advantage you guys don't really want to loose that makes so much fuss?

If skill points advantage on an older toon means nothing then what the heck "advantage" are you talking about?

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

You quote "advantage" and he never says the word at all...trolling 101 i guess
loose - tight
lose - win/find
loose...lol

He is referring to the amount of time he has put into the game in all areas.
A noob can join, specialize, and be efficient in any number of ships.
And be just as effective as the older players.
Just not every ship.
Bittervet is a term used by noobs that complain they can never catch up....this isn't true.
They can catch up if they use remaps and keep an eye on their character...it will take time...but it is that time most of us have already put in.

Stuff...sounds important...totally not...

How is that Test/Goon Scamming of new players going?
Did Hulkageddon work out favorably for your corp?
How many noobs did your corp destroy in the burn Jita event?
Is your corp the botter corp? Or are you in a corp that just benefits from it?

I'll bet new players would stay longer over some guy complaining than one of the above events.
If you are legit, start on your own alliance first. Spread through your blues...then feel free to whine more about elitists
and the like.


Irony = Test/Goons coming in and telling others about morals....

it is NOW yes but it never used to be, this used to be a good community, sure you had some of the same stuff but it was rare then goons happened

Nah dude...stop reading EN24.

As far i know almost every new player knows what he or she is getting into when they first subscribe into EvE
EvE has that reputation , to be harsh , and unforgivable to the new unsuspected player, just look atother game forums , when ever they mention EvE everybody shivers and get scared

Translation: We won EVE and its getting kinda boring, and boredom causes problems. Give us entertainment as you struggle in vain against our botting empire

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

I don't get where they are getting that from, Im a returning player , I quit the game 3 years ago, I had played for 72 days and each day there was only around 15,000 to 20,000 playing, Now that ive come back, the past 2 weeks ive seen around 44,000 on at the time I get on.. So if the game was failing, it would have failed 3 years ago because obviously something has changed for the population to be up from where it used to be as mentioned in my story. Seems more are playing now days than 3 years ago, so its not failing..

CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

Why would anyone scam a noob??? They have nothing to take. ANY scammers I know in nullsec don't even talk to you unless they see you have at least 2-3 bill dude...

I could copy and paste a link to our forums where HBC are told specifically to NOT scam new players, as they are our bread and butter. I personally wouldn't bother with an Alliance that scammed New players or even returning players for that matter as, again, I take the issue of EVE's growth VERY seriously. I CANNOT control what someone else does dude. You will find scammers in EVERY SINGLE alliance in EVE, excluding Ivy League. That's a FACT< whether it's permitted or not, it's happening in some form.

I can also tell you first hand that TEST does NOT allow botting in any shape or form. Thousands of people in TEST, don't you think someone would snitch??? Montolio crawled up my ass personally once for admitting to AFK mining, so I know damned well he won't stand for botters in his alliance as that **** could get us shut down completely. Years of hard work for some easy isk when we already make tons from our LEGIT sources??? Nah dude...stop reading EN24.

Conveniently left out the Jita Interdiction and Hulkageddon where newer players did die.
You must not realize that many new players buy accounts using the real money > plex > isk > Character bazaar.
These players then get scammed and suicide ganked like everyone else by test/goons.
Just because the character is 3-6 years old does not mean the player is.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

Reason 1:
When I started Eve, all I knew about it was it was "a space game." I was ganked the second I joined my first corp and left the station I applied in. I didn't know what had happened to me or why. Look at my employment history. Eve lost me for several years after that. Who the hell wants to learn a new game where they are constantly being harassed by jackasses? Sorry, but there are a lot of them here. They aren't what make Eve great; they're what ruin the fun for a lot of people. I get it, those guys are perfectly happy with the status quo; they don't mind low subscription numbers so they are quick to say, "If you don't like it, don't play it...or this game isn't for you." My response, "How about you give me a moment to decide if I even like this game enough to want to put up with your crap?" If you're one of them and you want to respond to me with "cry some more" all I have to say is "sorry, but this is my game too! And wanting to enjoy my free time isn't crying. There's room for both of us here; fail to understand your actions, and neither of us will be forever."

Reason 2:
When I tell people I play Eve, most have never even heard of it. Sorry, but that's a fact, and that is why CCP to this day buys advertising on Google AdWords. Do other MMOs do this? Ten years later? I can't think of one. Not ever. In the history of MMOs. And you know what I tell my friends? "Don't even bother trying it." I'm not going to support this game or tell my friends to play it when I know they won't enjoy it. Why am I here? Because, for the moment, I'm willing to deal with the parasites that make up the Eve ecosystem for the parts of the game I actually do enjoy. Yeah, I'm shivering and shaking in my boots, all right. Eve has no reputation; it's not known. And that's actually a good thing.

Avid gamers do know about Eve. Frequent flyers of "flavor of the month" blockbusters do not. The reason is because Eve has been around for quite sometime. It also applies to a different caliber of players. If you want instant gratification, Eve is real hard to get around (I learned this when I first tried Eve when I was playing EQ back in it's prime).

The hardest part about Eve, is trying to imply anyone needs to let anyone do anything. That's the biggest thing to get over. Eve is about learning from your mistakes, not having the inside track. Shortcuts end up biting you in the ass.

It's just simply a frame of mind from people who used to play games that had sustance and content. Not games trying to appease those who have an attention span shorter than 3 minutes.

Especially as this is quite a sensitive topic that a lot of you feel strongly on, please try to keep the discussion civil and courteous. If the flaming and trolling continues, the thread may get permanently locked (as it has had two cleanups already).

This post is correct. Both TEST and Goonswarm have done more to recruit new players into the game and give them the tools to succeed than anybody in hisec. Both groups form their entire identities around newbies. Meanwhile, hisec groups such as incursion gangs are extremely exclusive of anybody who does not have an officer fit Nightmare and will belittle them as useless poors.

You don't buy accounts through the character sale forum. EVE isn't a pay to win game - buying timecodes/PLEX and trading them for ISK doesn't exempt you from the "cold, harsh" part of the game just like you're not exempt from it if you get there through playing the game.

Suicide ganking and scams are what separates this game from ~grind4epix~ themepark MMOs.

you know this kinda posting irratates me i hate the goons too but you know what? before goons there was BoB... so befoer shooting our mouth off about the big alliances... remember that there will always be another ******* alliance to take over that spot

I BELIEVE in letting people play as they will..

In addition while I can't say anything regarding TEST as I've not looked at their recruitment policies, doesn't the GSF discriminate against the larger population of new players by the requirement of being an SA member?

The Goonwaffe corp is the only one that does that, and not even strictly.

The other corporations in the GSF alliance set their own recruitment standards. If you expand this to the entire CFC, you can find a wide variety of corporations that recruit publicly on anything from your SP, to your language/nationality, to being members of some completely different non-eve forums.

The newbee friendliness of Goonwaffe spills over into all of them though, as our largess knows no bounds.

There are, have been, and will continue to be friendly help across security bands and the blanket statements aimed at large swaths of players are neither remotely accurate or constructive.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.

The reality of this game is based on a simple law of nature:

The weak get eaten by the strong.

The strong ones are those who are able to adapt.
The weak are those who aren't.


Example:

People don't tank their mining ships and die for it.
You blame the strong for showing the weak his mistake,
instead of blaming the weak for being unable to adapt, although they *could*.


Example:

People autopilot their pods with hundreds of millions of implants,
believing they can't be harmed anyway.
You blame the strong for showing the weak his mistake,
instead of blaming the weak for doing a stupid thing in the first place.



This topic never was about "let me play how i want". The weak just managed to push it into that direction.
The actual topic is "i don't want to adapt to how the game works". "I don't want to see that i made a mistake".


You weaklings keep repeating the same thing over and over again,
unable to understand that you are indeed weak and you need to adapt to become strong.


There is *no* need to protect the weak. Protecting the weak will only lead to a society of weaklings ...
... and there is no natural law of "protecting the weak, so the genepool gets weaker".


Does anybody of you have any *actual* argument against the simple fact that nature
has never intended to protect the weak ? Evolution ? Ever heard of it ?

It's like driving a mercedes through the bronx and then blaming everybody else for taking advantage of his idiocy.

Today. And yesterday. And the day before that. And....etc. Does that make me special? Absolutely not. It doesn't make you special eider.

I'm going to disagree with this sentiment in spite of my admiration for your work. If I drive a Benz into the Bronx and someone steals it, it's not my fault it was stolen. Maybe I could have taken more precautions, but at the end of the day the fault lies entirely on the jackass who stole the car, NOT the person who made it convenient for them to steal. Let's not delude ourselves by saying it's suddenly justified to do bad things to people just because they made it easy for us to do bad things to them.

Fortunately this is Eve, where we don't need real-world justification for being bad guys. It's just what we do.

And that's the thing here: just like in real life, Eve's world is full of people who will take advantage of your mistakes. I'm not going to go so far as to say it's the victim's fault when they get podded by someone like Solstice, but it's so stupidly easy to avoid that I can't muster any sympathy for his victims.

I agree with everything you just said, with one exception...new players. I was invited into a corp that was at war (I did not know this at the time); the second I left the station, I was podded by their enemies. Could I have easily avoided that? Perhaps. I didn't know I needed to though. So, using your awesome analogy, and I mean that genuinely, if a kid runs out in front of the street in the Bronx, do you run him over for it, or do you stop your vehicle? (No, you can't run him over to teach him a lesson, lol...)

The reality of this game is based on a simple law of nature:

The weak get eaten by the strong.

The strong ones are those who are able to adapt.
The weak are those who aren't.


Example:

People don't tank their mining ships and die for it.
You blame the strong for showing the weak his mistake,
instead of blaming the weak for being unable to adapt, although they *could*.


Example:

People autopilot their pods with hundreds of millions of implants,
believing they can't be harmed anyway.
You blame the strong for showing the weak his mistake,
instead of blaming the weak for doing a stupid thing in the first place.



This topic never was about "let me play how i want". The weak just managed to push it into that direction.
The actual topic is "i don't want to adapt to how the game works". "I don't want to see that i made a mistake".


You weaklings keep repeating the same thing over and over again,
unable to understand that you are indeed weak and you need to adapt to become strong.


There is *no* need to protect the weak. Protecting the weak will only lead to a society of weaklings ...
... and there is no natural law of "protecting the weak, so the genepool gets weaker".


Does anybody of you have any *actual* argument against the simple fact that nature
has never intended to protect the weak ? Evolution ? Ever heard of it ?

to you sir I say grow a pair and shoot at someone who can shoot back then come talk. High sec griefers have been here all along and will always be here. BUT people that do it then gloat about it or rant about how that miner he just ganked has no right to be mad about it. I mean really? if I slammed into your car with a tank and said tough cookies for you should have been in a tank ............

But then you have the matter if distinguishing between genuine noobs and alts, and that sort of thing.

Who should you be mad at...the guy who shot a valid wartarget, or the one who made you a valid wartarget without telling you?

Your point is wholly valid. Honestly, I'm not mad at either. For one, it was years ago. And two, in the grand scheme of things, it's really not particularly important, and certainly not unique. That said, neither were honorable in their actions, and it was a big factor in my decision to discontinue playing Eve for the next several years, from a guy with a lot of disposable income who's willing to invest in the games he enjoys playing. How many more out there are like me?

No one can really say with certainty how well Eve is doing today. I'd say CCP is doing pretty well, given their ability to launch Dust, which aside from being unique was actually very well-crafted from what little Ive seen of it so far. But how much further along could they have been? Maybe it's just me, but I don't generally set my sights low on anything in life.

I started playing Eve around the time STO was announced. That was something I genuinely looked forward to for years, before it was even conceptualized. That led me to Eve, knowing the launch date was years away. STO was a disappointment to many people, myself among them. Their failures led me back to Eve. Perhaps others as well. Will they be able to keep us this time?

I've invested a lot in this game as of late. I started and funded a corp to bring like-minded people together, in order to make Eve an enjoyable place for me and them, and to have strength in numbers, because Eve demands it. This isn't your casual game, and casual gamers will have a difficult time here without friends. Will that be enough?

This all comes back to the op's post. This game is what the players make it. It's not a new concept. I've heard it from many people, in and out of game. And this post has generated in my opinion some healthy discussion on that topic. Largely, it will have zero impact on anything, but it could be that little tiny spark planted in someone's mind, that has a subtle ripple effect on those it touches.

I use my example of my early Eve experience to point out what is most glaring about this game. One guy, so bored with his own life that he was willing to camp at a station for hours on end, sat there podding players in rookie ships. Podding them. As if that makes him special or powerful. Another guy, desperate for new blood, recruits new players knowing that guy is at the station podding new recruits. Not very honorable. These are common actions in Eve, and it is damaging to its health.

In closing, just bringing up alts says a lot in itself. The constant recycling of the same players isn't healthy for any game. If it is such common practice for existing players to create alts, then that is another can of worms. At any rate, I can't imagine I have anything else to contribute to this forum. There are a lot of interesting points of view I've read, many of which I agree with, others which only highlight the truth of the topic.

Everyone has a choice. If podding people makes you feel happy and powerful, well, that's allowed here. And to those people, I genuinely hope they find some sort of genuine satisfaction in their real lives to make up for whatever it is that ails them so. If you believe in helping and nurturing new players, then I believe that's real strength and comes from a less selfish, more real, less tortured, more balanced, human being. Most games don't allow those with sociopathic tendencies to act on them in such glaring ways; I don't believe it's a true reflection of humanity as a whole. I think it's a small subset, and that due to this game's culture, they thrive within this environment, coloring the universe in an unrealistic portrait of humankind. This is my opinion. Some will share it, others will not.

I agree with everything you just said, with one exception...new players. I was invited into a corp that was at war (I did not know this at the time); the second I left the station, I was podded by their enemies. Could I have easily avoided that? Perhaps. I didn't know I needed to though. So, using your awesome analogy, and I mean that genuinely, if a kid runs out in front of the street in the Bronx, do you run him over for it, or do you stop your vehicle? (No, you can't run him over to teach him a lesson, lol...)

Uh, what? Are you trying to imply that it's the game's fault for not telling you that you could be podded for leaving your house, akin to the kid who ran out being the fault of the parents for not keeping their child indoors? I don't understand this analogy.

It's up to the player to know how to play. Period. Whether you are prudent with your research (read forums etc) or want to take a chance diving right in and learning from your mistakes (which your example of you getting podded by a WT shows).

Keep in mind, being podded whether you are a vet or a rookie bears no hit on any reputation, nor is it really "bad". Running over a child however, is.

So why are you whining like a spoiled little brat...

Everyone has a choice. If podding people makes you feel happy and powerful, well, that's allowed here. And to those people, I genuinely hope they find some sort of genuine satisfaction in their real lives to make up for whatever it is that ails them so. If you believe in helping and nurturing new players, then I believe that's real strength and comes from a less selfish, more real, less tortured, more balanced, human being. Most games don't allow those with sociopathic tendencies to act on them in such glaring ways; I don't believe it's a true reflection of humanity as a whole. I think it's a small subset, and that due to this game's culture, they thrive within this environment, coloring the universe in an unrealistic portrait of humankind. This is my opinion. Some will share it, others will not.

LOL, Jr bees claiming they want to help...who would have ever expected this...?

And to the OP....if you were actually the person you claim, you never would have joined Testies....

I think that depends on who you ask.

Also, no, that's what I'm saying at all. You'll either read everything I wrote in this forum for proper context, or you won't.

I did, and responded as well as answered. "Context" is left to be guessed at since it was passive aggressive at best. If you aren't concise and leave things to the imagination, the imagination will get used.

Max why do you hate on Solstice so much? I mean... we all know he lives in 0.5. He's basicly the greeter for lowsec, I mean c'mon... compared to the usual gateganker he's a content providing saint.

Survival of the fittest isn't elitist, though I do agree on lots of your points touching on people's attitude towards newbies. But make no mistake, the newb isn't that helpless. When I started EvE I fully understood what I was getting into, and a game with this many players is bound to have a few douchebags with sheeple following them in droves. It's not being shot down by a pirate that's the problem. It's being barked at afterwards by some idiot KM-addicted CEO who worries about his rep up the Alliance chain. Or whatever. People being idiots, not pirates being pirates. I agree we are responsible ourselves to walk away, player rentition is something we all have an effect on, like it or not.

I'm glad you found something that inspired you to rant this hard though. Considering you also asked about SB's in another topic you must have plans.

@Max, Then I agree to disagree, respectfully. I believe the problem lies in simple social respect. In my opinion a newbie should be made aware of his vulnerable situation, they are the mouse and we are the cats. Did you know in nullsec, there be dragons? Just saying that I enjoyed the newbie aspect of EvE myself. First thing I did was die. Man was it cheap back then!

I have been ganked by pirates a dozen times over, each time learning something new. How tanking worked and how to use cloaks. Today I prevented 2 BC's from being blapped in my Fleet because of the things I learned back then. But I would never have learned those things had I not conversed with my killers, accepting the game's rules as a simple ultimatum. The developers get to decide the physics, we supply the meta.

And to that end I still agree with you: we are responsible ourselves for making other people want to play this game. I just feel that includes people that want to play the pirate, and that the true problem lies not in ganks. The true problem lies in some of us obscuring the true identity of this game with wishfull thinking, selfless greed, and bad leadership. In my eyes perfect ingredients for a video game revolving around player-driven conflict however, so in fact - I don't experience it as a problem, but as a challenge. I fully agree people need to mine and manufacture, but there needs to be a challenge in it for it to be an actual game, instead of FarmVille in space. Those that can do indy stuff under increased logistical and military challenges (low/null/wh) meet these challenges head-on. Those multiboxing 10 accounts in hisec, do not. Why is it so morally repulsive to blow them out of the skybox?

I have had my share of bad experiences, but they were always due to the way people treat people, not because of how the game's aggro rules work. I think a lot of effort went into Crimewatch 2.0 and I feel I have been given even more tools to increase the survivability of every player I can retain. Elitists are indeed stupid, but so is getting worked up over rude people in an online video game. Unlearning that tendency is a great way to retain corp members, by the way.

No wonder with people like you around New players leave the frikin game

How much do you suck if the people you prey on are new to a game

I'm a vet, I only shoot people who offer me a CHALLENGE.

But then some of you all never cared about a challenge you think your good because you can pop a defenseless mining ship

Actually, i'm in 0.7 now. Close to Jita, to fund myself.
The DoobieWoobieGuy doesnt understand that theres a difference between an ingame and an out of game character. Funny. From all the hatred he displays, he probably takes the game way too seriously.

Yay i am a saint. Most who know me would agree. Of course. I love my public image. Quite some effort to make so many different people believe so many different things about me. ^_^

edit: oh there is something to add. You, ShoobyDooby, have NO clue about my social skills, else you wouldnt say crap like me lacking them. ^_^ You just prove that most people are way too easily manipulateable into believing things about others. The forums are great for that. You dont even know me ingame. Public != Private. ^_^

Theres a whole section of metagaming i know far better than others, including you. At least thats what you display. ^_^ In before the obvious "i am just acting too and you just dont know it" ... ^_^

Woah, typing on a 4.3" tablet.

I just want to shoot you really. I'll find you one day, during your usual routine of ganking rookie ships on autopilot through lowsec, and kill you. Then I'll take a screenshot of your corpse and put it up on our forums and send another to EN24 and Mittani.

Max Doobie can be your best friend or your worst enemy Solstice.

You call me "ShoobyDooby" again and I'm going to hunt you relentlessly. Then I'll have Test and Goons make your EVE life miserable until you quit.

Don't do it again dude.

You don't want it with me.



OOOOOOO-SNEEE-YAP SON!!!!!

Can't let you do that.
You know, his constant need tor trasher hulls and artillery pieces has made Mr Solstice- unbeknownst to him- one of my most loyal customers.
I won't have you threaten my customers, Doobie.

4. Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.

6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.

7. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.

20. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful, provided that it is presented in a civil, factual manner. Tell us what you don't like and why and how you feel it could be improved. Posts that are not constructive, insulting or rude may be deleted, no matter how valid the ideas behind them may be.