| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kuolematon
   |
Posted - 2005.06.20 10:51:00 -
[31]
Wasnt that blokkande mission more than 150km away from gates? If it would be like 200km away from closest turret, then problem would indeed be solved in lowsec space.. but ouch for your security status :|
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
"I troll, therefor I am!" //\\ Suomi-Finland-Perkele asennetta! |
Ankanos
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 11:27:00 -
[32]
i just wait till about 2hrs before DT to do the mission if its in a thief
infested system like sobaseki...
never had problems at that time... if you cant play at that time,
oh well..
-ank
--- |
Lizanne
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 15:20:00 -
[33]
Man just get some skills and a decent ship and pickup your loot while killing your mission ships!
Blockade missions are great like they are!
Did lvl 4 blockade many times... 
|
MOS DEF
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 15:40:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Jarden
Make mission in lowsec and kill the lootthieves.
Problem solved
Good idea except there are none in <0.5 .
@Threadstarter: That'S the price a  has to pay.
|
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 18:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Vilserx
Originally by: capt
Originally by: Darkward
I'm voting to remove the blockade mission.
I've done lvl4 blockade quiet a few times and always lost most of the loot by thieves. Therefore I vote for removing this mission or move it away from any gates.
So let me get things straight here. A perfectly fine mission needs to be removed because you are too lazy to search for a less populated system? 
hmmmmmm okaaaay........
Most agents are condensed into a small area of systems so it's not that viable an option.
Most - But NOT all.
I have a lvl 4 qual -12 Amarr agent in a VERY quiet system. It's merely a matter of it being more inconvenient. It's also .1 space so I'm not concerned about loot theft
|
Darkward
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 20:42:00 -
[36]
Well what the mission is called doesn't really matter, in fact the "Blockade" mission isn't really blocking anything.
If you want to argue about the realistic side of it... well If one ship can kill the blockade it's not really a blockade. Or other way around a single ship is no blockade... Neither is realy *realistic*
Win XP/SP1 768MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Athlon 1800XP |
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 21:48:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Siroc on 20/06/2005 21:54:56
I am against removing this mission, i like to be able to show off in front of the noobs blowing up battleships in empire space. :)
But i do think that CCP had ignored all that loot/ore theft problem for too long. All they have to do is to implement a way to report theft to concord and get them to agro on theif (this would look like proper part of a gameplay), or make target atackable in the empire space without any security hit by owner of the can, his gang and corp until ship is destroyed.
Another thing I found is that NPCs do not lock on them. I had one loot theif flying behind battleship within 5 meters for 5 min while i was killing it and he never got atacked although battleship never show guns at me (i was out of his range). Why if i atack NPC ship with drones, it realizes that now he can atack something thats in range and atacks it, but it ignores loot theives.
Quite frankly, i think that they should make jetcans not openable by non-owners. Sometimes CCP's attitute to those things make me feel like they are on the theives side.
And whats the deal with that "loot sucks" nonsense. When you flying level 4s and killing battleship sized rats, some of the standart modules that drop cost half a mil and up, not talking about named ones. Thats almost like mission's payout. Every time I get this mission, some ****** goes in and starts taking things i had to kill the ships for and I have no way to stop them. Not cool.
|
Darkward
|
Posted - 2005.06.20 23:05:00 -
[38]
Well that's part of my original intention, make people who interfere with a mission (eg not ganged) attackable AND the loot containers "owned" by the person who shot last.
If they interfere, call CONCORDE if in >0.5 space.
Win XP/SP1 768MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Athlon 1800XP |
Andrue
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 13:18:00 -
[39]
No. No way. Blockade is one of the best missions in the game. Even for spectators it's fun. I remember the first I jumped into a 'Blockaded' gate - fantastic atmosphere. I'd like to see a multi-point sequence where you have to keep several gates clear. Perhaps simultaneously so that you have to group with other people.
Anyway returning to the mission as is:So some people pick up the loot - so what? It's only debris that survived the detruction of a ship so first come first served.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Darkward
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 16:04:00 -
[40]
Spectators are fine, as long as they do not interfere.
The loot in missions is an integral part, so for some it *might* be trash, however for me and many other it is not.
Nothing stands against the a ganged member can open cans however just not "uninvited" folks should be kept away.
Just an example if you run the blockade mission killing all the rats and at the end you get 600k or 800k thats all. You spent quiet some money for ammo maybe lost some drones... it will hardly cover the expenses.
So there's no real reward for doing that mission.
Win XP/SP1 768MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Athlon 1800XP |
AlexK100
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 16:31:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Darkward
Spectators are fine, as long as they do not interfere.
Just an example if you run the blockade mission killing all the rats and at the end you get 600k or 800k thats all. You spent quiet some money for ammo maybe lost some drones... it will hardly cover the expenses.
So there's no real reward for doing that mission.
If its so bad then reject it.
It`s your right to reject 1 mission every 4 hours so noone force you to take on.
Why do you ask ccp to stop others to enjoy this mission ?
Loot thiefs are part of the game and you can counter them - just dont to blockade in overcrowded systems or ask younger corp member to collect loot.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 16:31:00 -
[42]
AlexK100, whatever....
its not that hard to make exeptions to handle PvP stuff (ie: if you have shot or assisted in killing that person, you have a right to open loot/jetcan that belongs to that person for next 10 min).
Loot containers lootable by anyone? And its not being called offence by police? I do not see any gameplay/logic in this. CCP have created whole in-game proffession of greefers who annoy players.
|
AlexK100
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 16:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Siroc
AlexK100, whatever....
Loot containers lootable by anyone? And its not being called offence by police? I do not see any gameplay/logic in this. CCP have created whole in-game proffession of greefers who annoy players.
Again...
As far as see police in RL dont usually protect trash bins from "griefers".
Also if cat kills a rat police dont really care to protec the body from other cat.First come first served.
Concord pays you bounty for kills but I dont see the logic why they should care about the ship debris.
PS
I dont think eve should be the same as other online games and CCP should compy all their rules.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 17:41:00 -
[44]
i fail to see how can one say that its ok to take something that someone had to fight for, risk their ship (hours of REAL time he invested in the game), use months (REAL time and money again) of training he got and paid his REAL money for. Eve is a virtual universe but it should operate by rules that are more or less real because a lot of direct connections between isk and real money.
Very often, i make more isk from loot then I make from bonties and I do not see why some loot stealing ******* should be able to take his alt with couple weeks of training and take several millions worth of loot.
So yes, ether give us a way to deal with loot theifs or disable mission all together.
|
Darkward
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 18:22:00 -
[45]
Well, you say in RL the police doesn't care about trash, thats correct, however loot is not trash (at least not for me) and in RL the police cares about thieves.
If they can't handle it, I'm allowed to protect my property, in EVE I am not allowed (well not in .5+) instead I get punished.
So your refereal to RL depends completly on your personal pov. Again for me it's theft and I want to be able to do something about it.
Please dont tell me to go to .4 or less space, me personally want to play this mostly by myself and if there are pirates it is currently impossible for me to fight against 3on1 pvp while doing a mission.
Since missions are available I'd like to do them (ignoring them is possible but why is it in then?). Ignore or remove is basically the same for me.
Win XP/SP1 768MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Athlon 1800XP |
Inspiration
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 18:49:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Inspiration on 21/06/2005 18:51:57
The problem with the blockade ain't so much the fact that its near gates, nor that it attracts thiefs. The problem is that the mission is pretty much nerfed to the hill....
Let me explain this a bit more.
The NPC do not attack anyone else but the mission owner, or anyone shooting at them. This totaly removes the danger factor and excitement of having a fleet of NPC ships near a gate. Let them aggro anyone nearby and cycle targets a bit and suddenly they are the star of the show, involving everyone in the game.
I remember seeing blockade for the first time next to the gate of the system I was entering at that time. I was in a mammoth and my heart started beating faster....will I get shot, etc. The mere presense of that danger (without the risk of being podded, NPC's don't do that) made it very exciting.
What they should do:
1. Make the NPC fleet larger and tougher (consisting of mostly big ships)
2. Make them extremely agressive to ships withing a fixed radius
3. Make the smaller vessels stay close to the bigger ones as escorts against fast ships
4. Let them cycle targets, or if possible let their fleet firepower be diverted against multiple targets (not just the mission owner).
Such a mission near a gate would be a realy good thing as it will invite anyone to help to fight. This is an element that is grossly lacking in this game atm, and this is the mission closest to it......improve the mission, don't destroy it!
Check out my Shield/Armor resistance calculator.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 19:03:00 -
[47]
Inspiration, i can bet anything there will be so many complains about this sort of modification its not even funny. noobs that just got their first cruiser murdered by fleet in empire space? I doubt they going to like it.
As for targeting, i think that they should target anyone in their target range. It is stupid that loot thief can follow 5k from the enemy battleship in a Bagger and battleship will not slap him silly for that.
|
Inspiration
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 19:30:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Inspiration on 21/06/2005 19:32:25
Originally by: Siroc
Inspiration, i can bet anything there will be so many complains about this sort of modification its not even funny. noobs that just got their first cruiser murdered by fleet in empire space? I doubt they going to like it.
Problably, but it would be a rare thing to happen and they will most likely be comensated by the peeps in local. The mission would be worth a lot in bounties, even more then currently. Under normal circumstances battle capable ships would be engaging and shooting back. A newbie in a cruiser that waits until it gets targeted is well......very nooby and deserved to be ganked :).
Simple solution is to let the NPC not target anyone that has not been present for less then 1 minute. Except for the mission owner and anyone targeting or shooting or the ones that realy get to close! Problem solved...it's so easy!
All the more reason to make it a more rare mission that involves everyone present.
Check out my Shield/Armor resistance calculator.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 20:18:00 -
[49]
that could work
|
Darkward
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 20:23:00 -
[50]
Intresting idea, but I would leave out the delay of 1 minute.
Win XP/SP1 768MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Athlon 1800XP |
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.21 21:12:00 -
[51]
they should also make the looting as a action that realy draws attention of the enemy and makes their signature huge so they get targeted instantly. So if someone wants to loot during the fight and they are in the range, NPC will switch target to them right away and hand their butt to them.
|
AlexK100
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 10:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Siroc
So yes, ether give us a way to deal with loot theifs or disable mission all together.
I want to repeat myself one more time:
You CAN reject this mission with no loss of standing.
Then I can accept and do it to my pleasure.
Please dont interfere with rights of other people to do missions what they like to do.
And Yes, you have number of options to keep your loot.
|
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 13:43:00 -
[53]
You people are sad if you can't adapt to it. Drop cans are free for looting whoever can get there first. That what they are, that's what they've been from day one, that what they should always be.
As for the blockade missions title and the mission. DUH ......... you are the blockade, they are not the blockade. it is your job to exicute the blockade and not let the invading forces come thru the gate and into system.
That's why it has to happen at a gate. CUZ you're blockading it.
And as far as the agent locations being available.
Clicks his own map.
selects "my agents"
Lookie caldaris space lights up so green you can't even see where the dang systems are.
Let alone the rest of space.
There are plenty of agents everywhere in almost each and every system.
Big deal so it just might not be in the corp you want. SO FRICKEN WHAT ON KILL MISSIONS.
If you don't like the situation your in with kill missions in that system. ADAPT AND CHANGE SYSTEMS AND CORPS. They are fricken kill missions people. They are available but the multitudes in all corps in all races in almost every single system in empire.
That is the silliest waaaaaaaabulance remove this mission I've ever heard.
You made the choice to mission there, make another and move if it's a problem.
And on the other side, those that say go to .4 or less and just pod them ....... um it's at a gate(sentries) granted only two but think about it. mid mission, under NPC fire(lvl 4 can be a bit much solo), pop the can theif, now your flagged and under fire from sentries too and might have two or 3 spawns still to kill.
then what...... take the sentries too?
Real real simple solution to this.
Get a really good tank, DO NOT SNIPE THIS MISSION. Go in close and personal, take out the damage dealers first and head straight for the can and DO NOT KILL the entire spawn. Kill the damage dealers and let your tank run for ever on the non damage dealers. Only kill what you gotta to allow your tank to cover your butt. pick up cans while your tanking and do not bring on next spwan till the first spawns cans are gone.
You do this, all your cans are closer to you than the theifs in most cases you get all your stuff.
Situation solved. this is one the best missions. Just cuz you guys come in 100km away from the 100km away spawn location and snipe the crap outta each spawn as fast as you can and don't have a fast ship to cover ground to clean up......so be it.
I bet 90% of the people complaining in this thread uses the uber snipe non deadspace tactic to stay safely in their "i wanna do lvl 4's without risk so i do them for 100km away tactics."
Adapt, change your tactic, try something new if it's not working, MOVE (ya agents in every single station in every single empire system), most importantly use your melon.
What would you rather have?
1. Can thieves cuz your to far away.
2. sniper thieves that steal your bounties and snipe your NPC ships from 100km away and leave your cans.
Sad, just sad that one the best missions has to come under fire like this every couple weeks cuz someone can't adapt to it.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 14:59:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Siroc on 22/06/2005 15:00:00
i spent a lot of time working for Brutor tribe, i like my base in Rens, my factories and labs are close by, I have been there since Beta and don't give a rats ass about people telling me to switch the agents because of loot thieves. I also do missions 4 in phoon with close range setup. Regardless of that you think, you have no way to loot things while you fighting level 4s. Too much going on, you will have your ass handed back to you if you do when you are fighting waves of multiple cruisers and battleships. Maybe you used to F1-F8 on apocalipse with 2 armor repairers or on Raven, but when you don't use ship what is a flavor of the month, things are different. Some people actualy play the game for fun, and making things challenging is part of it. And the fact that i spent an hour blasting through level 4 mission while constantly risking my very very expencive ship and some ALT picks up my loot in a indy is ****ing me off.
There is a problem and CCP refises to look at it as such. If it were not a problem, this mission would not come under fire every week. As for refusing a mission. I happened to like this mission, it brings in very good money and all loot is the single spawn point so it easy to gather. I would prefer to keep it, but at least move it away couple jumps out of the system in a random direction to make things more random and make it harder for loot thieves to pester you.
|
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:24:00 -
[55]
You don't get waves if you don't kill all the ships in that spawn. Next spawn doesn't happen till last one is dead.
And i do it like that every time.
kill everything but a couple cruisers. Let the cruisers orbit me while I loot the cans.
And I do NOT shoot at the last ship in that spawn till all cans from that spawn are looted.
If you can't tank two cruisers in a BS, there is a problem. Be it skills, be it setup. but there is a problem.
And I do it in a tanked raven with no speed mods and never loose a can.
|
Siroc
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:54:00 -
[56]
my phoon can very easily tank most of the complete waves :) but i actualy never thought of doing it this way, it does make some sense. But i still think there has to be something done with loot theft. The way you describe is in on the edge of being exploit. I am not saying its bad, at least you came up with some sort of solution :) But it can't be the way they intended for mission runners to deal with this problem. Also, a lot of thieves follow npc you are atacking at couple k distance during the fight and pick up a loot way before you can.
|
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:25:00 -
[57]
Possibly.
but one thing this comes down to is risk vs. rewards and the choices we each personally make. that puts eve on and even scale for everyone.
CCP has set it up that where it's least risky to ship loss, it's the least rewarding.
Part of running missions in safest of space high volume traffic systems is risking loosing some of that reward.
So in that respect, I say go go gadget can stealers. It's right on par with how CCP wants the reward system to work.
And ultimately it's our own personal chi=oices we have made that is even making this a situation. In my opinion, to tell CCP to end something and completely remove something ingame due to us making our own personal bad choices is very very silly.
Seriously, how many times we gonna see this. All because someone made a bad personal choice no matter if it was tactics, system location, setups or what have you. they want to have CCP remove the whole thing for everyone all cuz they made some bad choices.
I find this mission the utmost fun for the added challenge of coming up with a way to combat the ore/can theif.
\0/
Most can thieves move on when they see cans disappearing and ships not exploding. I'll sit there and let the cruisers orbit forever with a frig theif around.
Don't get me wrong here as that loot is my lifeblood. The more basic the better.
A real simple solution would be make any ship in a 40km bubble around spawn points have a possibility of the NPC seeing them as a threat and targeting them.
Most can thieves are in frigates, they won't be there if they had 5 cruisers targeting them and shooting them.
Ultimately it's the choices we make, CCP should delete anything cuz of that. Adjust it maybe, delete it ...... no way.
|
SpeedoMan
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 20:26:00 -
[58]
I think you have no place whining, even tho I understand why. Tons of L4 agent runners are basically "spamming" combat missions for the bounty cash only and leaving all the loot cans 150km from the gates, ripe for the picking. They don't care about or want the loot, so, obviously it's not that great compared to the cash & LP they're getting.
I'm sorry, if you leave ANYTHING can-wise at or near 150km range of me, I'm jumping to it and taking it. That's just how EVE works, and is supposed to work.
Soban... red all the way through and through |
Delfina
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 20:28:00 -
[59]
I always politely ask the person I think has the mission & is killing the nasty rats if I can either join the group, or have/help them loot.
Many times, they don't care about the loot and will graciously let you have some or all of it. JUST ASK NICELY! You can play EVE competetively without being mean & rude.
-----------------------------------------------
Better, stronger, & smarter than you! Who cares about good looks :P |
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 20:59:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Delfina
JUST ASK NICELY! You can play EVE competetively without being mean & rude.
Ding Ding Ding Ding. we have a winner. (although guilty for brashness in forums, read above) not ingame tho.
key word being competative.
But by all meaning of the terms "piracy" it doesn't totally apply to that community.
in this situation of can thieving, yes, but not really in the pirate community in general.
"Hey X', mind warping to belt 4 so that I can kindly PK your butt?" 
Admirable for sure that you actually ask, definitley.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |