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Fevair	Posted - 2005.06.21 01:44:00 - [1] So I just bought my enyo and I have to say that I love the ship. It's amazing against the serpentis. Anyways my questions is that what role does the enyo (and AF's in general) play in PvP? From what I gather they are good cruiser killers but I haven't heard much else. Would anyone care to enlighten me? What purpose do they have in a mixed fleet and what can they take on? Also from what (besides BS) should I run from or have trouble fighting?
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 01:55:00 - [2] They are good at killing some kinds of intys. They are good at killing frigs They get owned by other kinds of intys. They get owned by cruisers. They get owned by everything else. Assaults suck I've got the no-sig blues.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.06.21 02:34:00 - [3] Just lost my first ishkur, and I must say it was a blast to fly. What follows are the experiences of an AF noob :P. I was flying it as a heavy duty tackler / dogfighter, and found it performed the role rather nicely. I took on other AF's, destroyers, cruisers and tackled BS. In the heavy duty tackler role, I tackled an npc hunter apoc, and was able to tank 2 siege launchers w/ torps while my gang killed him. Also tackled a 'phoon, who nossed me and put some torps on me (that could have been trouble...), and laughed at the drone defence of a geddon. Generally I found that it was nice being able to take a bit more punishment than in an interceptor, where Web/Nos + torp = die. As a dogfighter, it ripped through a couple of destroyers and just beat a wolf. I also took down a caracal with it, so generally i was quite impressed. Got killed in the end by a Maller with web/warp. In mixed fleets, I usually have af's go after the support craft of the enemy - taking out their tacklers, so that BS do not have to focus on them. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Ivan Ho	Posted - 2005.06.21 03:07:00 - [4] they are prety awsome, ships just dont try to take on the whole world!! they will kill intys and frigs prety good, and cruzers as well depends on set up. mostly if they are for cruzer killikng they suck against intys and vice versa. all depends who you are hunting. lo rubra ;p
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.06.21 05:22:00 - [5] AFs in general make good escort ships. They can't stand up to any serious punishment by larger ship classes, but they do a great job of adding firepower and killing frigs and tacklers. And with their resists, if a BS fires on you, you can usually survive long enough to get away. With the missile patch, AFs will essentially be buffed. Currently, a few torpedos can do an AF in, but after the patch, they should hold a bit more survivability in scenarios where large missile launchers are involved.
Techyon	Posted - 2005.06.21 08:52:00 - [6] With ceraint setups the Enyo can really be an awesome alround ship. As in you can kill anything that isn't setup to kill frigs. You'll kill any normal frig or inty. And most other AF's ( there are exeptions ofcourse ) You can kill missile cruisers because they won't do enough dmg fast enough to kill you before you kill them ( with the expection of a Cerebus ). However watch out for ruptures, vexors, thoraxes ( I don't recommend you to engage thoraxes in af's anyway, those drones are scary ), mallers, omens setup for antifrig. They will rip you to tiny shreds especially if they are fitted with t2 guns. ------ ARIN Recruiter
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.06.21 09:03:00 - [7] Any role where you know they don't have a target painter. Other than that, thank CCP for killing any othe role you might be able to serve in more real pvp engagments. But not all hope is lost, maybe CCP will change the mod all together. It might save what frig spec pilots we have. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.21 09:12:00 - [8] Fear Heavy NOS, and missiles, other than that they are great for taking a beating, especially a gistii fitted Harpy. Death to the Galante
Bazman	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:40:00 - [9] Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's
Apoll	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:50:00 - [10] Fevair, Enyo is really good ship and with the upcoming patch you will love it more. :) With the proper skills and fitting it's scary ship against medium - small classes.

DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:51:00 - [11] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 13:55:15 Originally by: Spuki Assault frigs are very good at defending a fleet against enemy tacklers. You also can kill most cruisers, which are not specially set up to kill frigates. DrunkenOne: I want to see a ceptor that kills my (even non gistii fitted) harpy :) On the other hand, a crow or taranis that succeeds in getting really close to a wolf will kill it with ease. watch my video when (if) i release it. Harpies are the easiest assault to kill besides wolfs/jags. Ishkurs with good pilots can hurt though, but there aren't maybe good pilots with good setups on ishkurs it seems. Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: DrunkenOne They are good at killing some kinds of intys. They are good at killing frigs They get owned by other kinds of intys. They get owned by cruisers. They get owned by everything else. Assaults suck they pwn all intys/frigs/destoyers any desent cruiser pilot pwn AF they are pretty good heavy tacklers AF rules 1v1? I've got the no-sig blues.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:54:00 - [12] Originally by: MOS DEF Have you ever flown one. Or if you did - do you suck at it? An AF can kill many cruisers. If you attack a blasterax with a closerange AF you don't have to be surprised to see yourself in a pod. Assaults definatly DON'T suck. You do know that most fights are not 1 on 1 either. A small AF squad can take out any BS very easy. I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. A long range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a short range inty. They are good anti tacklers in fleets, but fleets != everyady pvp. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:26:00 - [13] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 14:09:28 Originally by: MOS DEF Have you ever flown one. Or if you did - do you suck at it? An AF can kill many cruisers. If you attack a blasterax with a closerange AF you don't have to be surprised to see yourself in a pod. Assaults definatly DON'T suck. You do know that most fights are not 1 on 1 either. A small AF squad can take out any BS very easy. I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. A long range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a short range inty. They are good anti tacklers in fleets, but fleets != everyady pvp. An assault will die to any of the "combat" inties pretty easilly if you know the trick . Eh with no particular long range fitting I have an optimal of 50km with irridium and 20km with antimatter (harpy with 150mm). The only thing I cant hit very well is a inty orbiting at 500m, if its a 1500m orbit i still hit. I would say the chances for an inty to kill me are slim as it will have a hard time approaching me to that range (a crow dies in roughly 3 volleys from the guns, thats like 10 seconds). Look im not saying its impossible, in EVE it never is since there are counter modules for almost everything, its just higly unlikely
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:26:00 - [14] Originally by: DrunkenOne Harpies are the easiest assault to kill besides wolfs/jags. Ishkurs with good pilots can hurt though, but there aren't maybe good pilots with good setups on ishkurs it seems. Yeah i know, there are plenty of harpy pilots out there who dont fit a webber, which makes them very vulnerable at extreme close ranges.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:37:00 - [15] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 14:39:38 Originally by: Elita Eoun Eh with no particular long range fitting I have an optimal of 50km with irridium and 20km with antimatter (harpy with 150mm). The only thing I cant hit very well is a inty orbiting at 500m, if its a 1500m orbit i still hit. I would say the chances for an inty to kill me are slim as it will have a hard time approaching me to that range (a crow dies in roughly 3 volleys from the guns, thats like 10 seconds). Look im not saying its impossible, in EVE it never is since there are counter modules for almost everything, its just higly unlikely By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc." Originally by: Spuki Yeah i know, there are plenty of harpy pilots out there who dont fit a webber, which makes them very vulnerable at extreme close ranges. Even with a webber they pop easilly. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:49:00 - [16] Originally by: DrunkenOne By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc. Mkay, makes sense. Anyway now you will either have to convince us (with us I mean the "non belivers" in this thread) by stating with what inty, setup and strategy you would own a harpy with 150mm railguns "easy", OR come out as boasting as you state no facts other than "I own all AF easy in my ceptor". Im not trying to be rude here, I just think you have to back it up some way
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:52:00 - [17] Not lost my wolf yet. Rule of thumb if i see Explosive missiles coming towards my little Baby, I show the enemy my butt and run ! Crows are a Pain, Taranis's not a problem because they (rule of thumb) can beat the Tank of the Wolf due to their inability to do the Important Expolsive damage.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's Mass should have nothing to do with top speed
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:57:00 - [19] Originally by: DrunkenOne I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. Doubt that.. A long range ceptor is certainly untouchable by a close range AF, but long range ceptors have mediocre damage output at best as well as obviously no webbing. So the AF should be able to tank the ceptor long enough to jump/dock easily, unless you start at like 60k+ from a gate.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:58:00 - [20] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:01:47 Originally by: Elita Eoun Originally by: DrunkenOne By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc. Mkay, makes sense. Anyway now you will either have to convince us (with us I mean the "non belivers" in this thread) by stating with what inty, setup and strategy you would own a harpy with 150mm railguns "easy", OR come out as boasting as you state no facts other than "I own all AF easy in my ceptor". Im not trying to be rude here, I just think you have to back it up some way I told you. Any combat inty, with the probably exception of the taranis cause it would take too long and the harpy could just jump out. And as for what setup? One I came up with, that won't be release to the public, sorry. People in the last 2 days using my setup killing harpies in solo inties: http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9472 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9525 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9474 <---hawk so basically the same thing http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9399 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9305 I can add any other assault frig if you want. I've got the no-sig blues.

kessah	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:02:00 - [21] sorry if some of you feel a mwd is bad to put on an AF, but i personally think its essential. This argument is old, and i feel proof is in the eating. High tracking, fast, webbing for enyo. Retribution the same imho. Ive flown everytype of AF there is i like to personally say that the Enyo is king, Harpy unless its got the 70m gist shield booster it sucks. The Retribution is also a nice ride. --------------------------------------------------------
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:03:00 - [22] First of all, ceptors have stupid bonuses to damage, which practicaly make them af-like in dps. This damage bonuses should be changed on taclking bonuses. Or role of af is very limited. Second, any ship in eve can be totaly owned with some ship and setup. Especially if you know the enemy setup and ship before combat. So it is understandable that af can be owned in a combat with a right setup. Third, af was nerfed with mass, which would be ok if they could really oudamage ceptors. But they dont. On ceptors lose their huge damage and be tacklers AS THEY SHOULD, af will be a damage providers AS THEY SHOULD. After the missle patch, I believe that af would have a decent role as a fast hitters assaulting bigger ships. A wolfpack with which operates by superiority of numbers and speed. Af agruably does not blow up as fast as inty and af pack can cover themselfs from enemy inties. So they can move faster then capital ships and defend from faster enemy ships. Yet they will be able to provide decent damage on capital ships and tank their "scrathing" hits and torpedoes. PS Vote YES on changing intry bonuses from damage to tackling.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. Doubt that.. A long range ceptor is certainly untouchable by a close range AF, but long range ceptors have mediocre damage output at best as well as obviously no webbing. So the AF should be able to tank the ceptor long enough to jump/dock easily, unless you start at like 60k+ from a gate. Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. I've got the no-sig blues.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's Mass should have nothing to do with top speed Yes it should. Higher the mass, the more energy you need to move it. ________________________________________________________
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:12:00 - [25] Originally by: DrunkenOne Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Well, yeah, I wouldn't fly a close-range AF personally, but just saying it is more of a stalemate situation. Also, I give you that you can kill many AFs in a ceptor 1v1... but try a 2 ceptors vs 2 AFs.. or even 2 ceptors vs. 1 AF + 1 ceptor. With the current target painter bug, I doubt you'd be able to get a harpy that uses a painter instead of the more commonly used webber though.
fredrica	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:13:00 - [26] mt harpy makes a fantasic heavy tackler. with a MWD I have enough speed to close within jamming range from a warp. yes with a merlin I can 50% more speed and yes an AF is alot more expensive. But where I would of been popped in a frig I survive in an AF In frig fleets they offer heavy firepower. I can butt *****any other frig in my harpy with 150mm II's and a MFSII
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:15:00 - [27] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:15:04 Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Well, yeah, I wouldn't fly a close-range AF personally, but just saying it is more of a stalemate situation. Also, I give you that you can kill many AFs in a ceptor 1v1... but try a 2 ceptors vs 2 AFs.. or even 2 ceptors vs. 1 AF + 1 ceptor. With the current target painter bug, I doubt you'd be able to get a harpy that uses a painter instead of the more commonly used webber though. A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. I've got the no-sig blues.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:16:00 - [28] Originally by: DrunkenOne A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. How exactly are you going to keep 2 long range AFs from omgwtfpwning you in like 3-4 volleys, if they stay 10-20k from each other?
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:17:00 - [29] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:17:32 Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. How exactly are you going to keep 2 long range AFs from omgwtfpwning you in like 3-4 volleys, if they stay 10-20k from each other? leet hax. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:19:00 - [30] Originally by: DrunkenOne People in the last 2 days using my setup killing harpies in solo inties: Ok I admit it that is some cool kills . Now you fueled my imagination also since you wont hint at the setup. Testing will begin shortly /me reaches for some t2 tracking disruptors



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