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Fevair	Posted - 2005.06.21 01:44:00 - [1] So I just bought my enyo and I have to say that I love the ship. It's amazing against the serpentis. Anyways my questions is that what role does the enyo (and AF's in general) play in PvP? From what I gather they are good cruiser killers but I haven't heard much else. Would anyone care to enlighten me? What purpose do they have in a mixed fleet and what can they take on? Also from what (besides BS) should I run from or have trouble fighting?
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 01:55:00 - [2] They are good at killing some kinds of intys. They are good at killing frigs They get owned by other kinds of intys. They get owned by cruisers. They get owned by everything else. Assaults suck I've got the no-sig blues.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.06.21 02:34:00 - [3] Just lost my first ishkur, and I must say it was a blast to fly. What follows are the experiences of an AF noob :P. I was flying it as a heavy duty tackler / dogfighter, and found it performed the role rather nicely. I took on other AF's, destroyers, cruisers and tackled BS. In the heavy duty tackler role, I tackled an npc hunter apoc, and was able to tank 2 siege launchers w/ torps while my gang killed him. Also tackled a 'phoon, who nossed me and put some torps on me (that could have been trouble...), and laughed at the drone defence of a geddon. Generally I found that it was nice being able to take a bit more punishment than in an interceptor, where Web/Nos + torp = die. As a dogfighter, it ripped through a couple of destroyers and just beat a wolf. I also took down a caracal with it, so generally i was quite impressed. Got killed in the end by a Maller with web/warp. In mixed fleets, I usually have af's go after the support craft of the enemy - taking out their tacklers, so that BS do not have to focus on them. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Ivan Ho	Posted - 2005.06.21 03:07:00 - [4] they are prety awsome, ships just dont try to take on the whole world!! they will kill intys and frigs prety good, and cruzers as well depends on set up. mostly if they are for cruzer killikng they suck against intys and vice versa. all depends who you are hunting. lo rubra ;p
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.06.21 05:22:00 - [5] AFs in general make good escort ships. They can't stand up to any serious punishment by larger ship classes, but they do a great job of adding firepower and killing frigs and tacklers. And with their resists, if a BS fires on you, you can usually survive long enough to get away. With the missile patch, AFs will essentially be buffed. Currently, a few torpedos can do an AF in, but after the patch, they should hold a bit more survivability in scenarios where large missile launchers are involved.
Techyon	Posted - 2005.06.21 08:52:00 - [6] With ceraint setups the Enyo can really be an awesome alround ship. As in you can kill anything that isn't setup to kill frigs. You'll kill any normal frig or inty. And most other AF's ( there are exeptions ofcourse ) You can kill missile cruisers because they won't do enough dmg fast enough to kill you before you kill them ( with the expection of a Cerebus ). However watch out for ruptures, vexors, thoraxes ( I don't recommend you to engage thoraxes in af's anyway, those drones are scary ), mallers, omens setup for antifrig. They will rip you to tiny shreds especially if they are fitted with t2 guns. ------ ARIN Recruiter
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.06.21 09:03:00 - [7] Any role where you know they don't have a target painter. Other than that, thank CCP for killing any othe role you might be able to serve in more real pvp engagments. But not all hope is lost, maybe CCP will change the mod all together. It might save what frig spec pilots we have. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.21 09:12:00 - [8] Fear Heavy NOS, and missiles, other than that they are great for taking a beating, especially a gistii fitted Harpy. Death to the Galante
Bazman	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:40:00 - [9] Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's
Apoll	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:50:00 - [10] Fevair, Enyo is really good ship and with the upcoming patch you will love it more. :) With the proper skills and fitting it's scary ship against medium - small classes.

DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:51:00 - [11] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 13:55:15 Originally by: Spuki Assault frigs are very good at defending a fleet against enemy tacklers. You also can kill most cruisers, which are not specially set up to kill frigates. DrunkenOne: I want to see a ceptor that kills my (even non gistii fitted) harpy :) On the other hand, a crow or taranis that succeeds in getting really close to a wolf will kill it with ease. watch my video when (if) i release it. Harpies are the easiest assault to kill besides wolfs/jags. Ishkurs with good pilots can hurt though, but there aren't maybe good pilots with good setups on ishkurs it seems. Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: DrunkenOne They are good at killing some kinds of intys. They are good at killing frigs They get owned by other kinds of intys. They get owned by cruisers. They get owned by everything else. Assaults suck they pwn all intys/frigs/destoyers any desent cruiser pilot pwn AF they are pretty good heavy tacklers AF rules 1v1? I've got the no-sig blues.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 13:54:00 - [12] Originally by: MOS DEF Have you ever flown one. Or if you did - do you suck at it? An AF can kill many cruisers. If you attack a blasterax with a closerange AF you don't have to be surprised to see yourself in a pod. Assaults definatly DON'T suck. You do know that most fights are not 1 on 1 either. A small AF squad can take out any BS very easy. I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. A long range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a short range inty. They are good anti tacklers in fleets, but fleets != everyady pvp. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:26:00 - [13] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 14:09:28 Originally by: MOS DEF Have you ever flown one. Or if you did - do you suck at it? An AF can kill many cruisers. If you attack a blasterax with a closerange AF you don't have to be surprised to see yourself in a pod. Assaults definatly DON'T suck. You do know that most fights are not 1 on 1 either. A small AF squad can take out any BS very easy. I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. A long range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a short range inty. They are good anti tacklers in fleets, but fleets != everyady pvp. An assault will die to any of the "combat" inties pretty easilly if you know the trick . Eh with no particular long range fitting I have an optimal of 50km with irridium and 20km with antimatter (harpy with 150mm). The only thing I cant hit very well is a inty orbiting at 500m, if its a 1500m orbit i still hit. I would say the chances for an inty to kill me are slim as it will have a hard time approaching me to that range (a crow dies in roughly 3 volleys from the guns, thats like 10 seconds). Look im not saying its impossible, in EVE it never is since there are counter modules for almost everything, its just higly unlikely
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:26:00 - [14] Originally by: DrunkenOne Harpies are the easiest assault to kill besides wolfs/jags. Ishkurs with good pilots can hurt though, but there aren't maybe good pilots with good setups on ishkurs it seems. Yeah i know, there are plenty of harpy pilots out there who dont fit a webber, which makes them very vulnerable at extreme close ranges.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:37:00 - [15] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 14:39:38 Originally by: Elita Eoun Eh with no particular long range fitting I have an optimal of 50km with irridium and 20km with antimatter (harpy with 150mm). The only thing I cant hit very well is a inty orbiting at 500m, if its a 1500m orbit i still hit. I would say the chances for an inty to kill me are slim as it will have a hard time approaching me to that range (a crow dies in roughly 3 volleys from the guns, thats like 10 seconds). Look im not saying its impossible, in EVE it never is since there are counter modules for almost everything, its just higly unlikely By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc." Originally by: Spuki Yeah i know, there are plenty of harpy pilots out there who dont fit a webber, which makes them very vulnerable at extreme close ranges. Even with a webber they pop easilly. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:49:00 - [16] Originally by: DrunkenOne By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc. Mkay, makes sense. Anyway now you will either have to convince us (with us I mean the "non belivers" in this thread) by stating with what inty, setup and strategy you would own a harpy with 150mm railguns "easy", OR come out as boasting as you state no facts other than "I own all AF easy in my ceptor". Im not trying to be rude here, I just think you have to back it up some way
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:52:00 - [17] Not lost my wolf yet. Rule of thumb if i see Explosive missiles coming towards my little Baby, I show the enemy my butt and run ! Crows are a Pain, Taranis's not a problem because they (rule of thumb) can beat the Tank of the Wolf due to their inability to do the Important Expolsive damage.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's Mass should have nothing to do with top speed
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:57:00 - [19] Originally by: DrunkenOne I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. Doubt that.. A long range ceptor is certainly untouchable by a close range AF, but long range ceptors have mediocre damage output at best as well as obviously no webbing. So the AF should be able to tank the ceptor long enough to jump/dock easily, unless you start at like 60k+ from a gate.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 14:58:00 - [20] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:01:47 Originally by: Elita Eoun Originally by: DrunkenOne By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc. Mkay, makes sense. Anyway now you will either have to convince us (with us I mean the "non belivers" in this thread) by stating with what inty, setup and strategy you would own a harpy with 150mm railguns "easy", OR come out as boasting as you state no facts other than "I own all AF easy in my ceptor". Im not trying to be rude here, I just think you have to back it up some way I told you. Any combat inty, with the probably exception of the taranis cause it would take too long and the harpy could just jump out. And as for what setup? One I came up with, that won't be release to the public, sorry. People in the last 2 days using my setup killing harpies in solo inties: http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9472 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9525 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9474 <---hawk so basically the same thing http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9399 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9305 I can add any other assault frig if you want. I've got the no-sig blues.

kessah	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:02:00 - [21] sorry if some of you feel a mwd is bad to put on an AF, but i personally think its essential. This argument is old, and i feel proof is in the eating. High tracking, fast, webbing for enyo. Retribution the same imho. Ive flown everytype of AF there is i like to personally say that the Enyo is king, Harpy unless its got the 70m gist shield booster it sucks. The Retribution is also a nice ride. --------------------------------------------------------
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:03:00 - [22] First of all, ceptors have stupid bonuses to damage, which practicaly make them af-like in dps. This damage bonuses should be changed on taclking bonuses. Or role of af is very limited. Second, any ship in eve can be totaly owned with some ship and setup. Especially if you know the enemy setup and ship before combat. So it is understandable that af can be owned in a combat with a right setup. Third, af was nerfed with mass, which would be ok if they could really oudamage ceptors. But they dont. On ceptors lose their huge damage and be tacklers AS THEY SHOULD, af will be a damage providers AS THEY SHOULD. After the missle patch, I believe that af would have a decent role as a fast hitters assaulting bigger ships. A wolfpack with which operates by superiority of numbers and speed. Af agruably does not blow up as fast as inty and af pack can cover themselfs from enemy inties. So they can move faster then capital ships and defend from faster enemy ships. Yet they will be able to provide decent damage on capital ships and tank their "scrathing" hits and torpedoes. PS Vote YES on changing intry bonuses from damage to tackling.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne I used to fly a wolf and enyo til i realize they suck. A close range assault frigate is worthless because it will die to a long range inty. Doubt that.. A long range ceptor is certainly untouchable by a close range AF, but long range ceptors have mediocre damage output at best as well as obviously no webbing. So the AF should be able to tank the ceptor long enough to jump/dock easily, unless you start at like 60k+ from a gate. Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. I've got the no-sig blues.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's Mass should have nothing to do with top speed Yes it should. Higher the mass, the more energy you need to move it. ________________________________________________________
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:12:00 - [25] Originally by: DrunkenOne Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Well, yeah, I wouldn't fly a close-range AF personally, but just saying it is more of a stalemate situation. Also, I give you that you can kill many AFs in a ceptor 1v1... but try a 2 ceptors vs 2 AFs.. or even 2 ceptors vs. 1 AF + 1 ceptor. With the current target painter bug, I doubt you'd be able to get a harpy that uses a painter instead of the more commonly used webber though.
fredrica	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:13:00 - [26] mt harpy makes a fantasic heavy tackler. with a MWD I have enough speed to close within jamming range from a warp. yes with a merlin I can 50% more speed and yes an AF is alot more expensive. But where I would of been popped in a frig I survive in an AF In frig fleets they offer heavy firepower. I can butt *****any other frig in my harpy with 150mm II's and a MFSII
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:15:00 - [27] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:15:04 Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne Yeah, but if you cant kill an inty, then why are you flying an assault? Unless its to 1v1 other assaults, which is understandable. And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Well, yeah, I wouldn't fly a close-range AF personally, but just saying it is more of a stalemate situation. Also, I give you that you can kill many AFs in a ceptor 1v1... but try a 2 ceptors vs 2 AFs.. or even 2 ceptors vs. 1 AF + 1 ceptor. With the current target painter bug, I doubt you'd be able to get a harpy that uses a painter instead of the more commonly used webber though. A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. I've got the no-sig blues.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:16:00 - [28] Originally by: DrunkenOne A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. How exactly are you going to keep 2 long range AFs from omgwtfpwning you in like 3-4 volleys, if they stay 10-20k from each other?
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:17:00 - [29] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:17:32 Originally by: Shirei Originally by: DrunkenOne A target painter makes it much easier. Oh and how about 1 ceptor vs 2 assaults? God I want to post my video... stop me meri. How exactly are you going to keep 2 long range AFs from omgwtfpwning you in like 3-4 volleys, if they stay 10-20k from each other? leet hax. I've got the no-sig blues.
Elita Eoun	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:19:00 - [30] Originally by: DrunkenOne People in the last 2 days using my setup killing harpies in solo inties: Ok I admit it that is some cool kills . Now you fueled my imagination also since you wont hint at the setup. Testing will begin shortly /me reaches for some t2 tracking disruptors

Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:20:00 - [31] Originally by: DrunkenOne And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Maybe in specific setups an inty would win, but I have a hard time seeing how a Crow would win against, say, an Enyo unless the Crow was specifically set up for some weird anti-Enyo setup. If they orbit at 15-20 km they get torn to shreds by railguns. If they close to web range they get webbed and torn to shreds. With t2 rails, it doesn't take many volleys to equal one dead Crow. All this time, the Enyo's defenders will have cut down the missile spam to tankable levels. Sure, they could orbit far ourside railgun range - but in that case the Enyo pilot has time to go get a cup of coffee and still warp away ...but as everything in Eve, there's always an exception and specialized setups can always kill specific targets. In the general case, I'd lay my money on the AF in an inty vs. AF fight. I've yet to find a really working Ishkur setup, though.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:20:00 - [32] Originally by: DrunkenOne God I want to post my video... stop me meri. Post it! The hype is killing me! ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Bazman	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Bazman on 21/06/2005 15:21:36 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's Mass should have nothing to do with top speed The mass affects both your agility and AB/MWD's top speed. For example, chuck an AB II on a harpy with a base speed of 300m/s, switch it on and you'll go about 590 to 600m/s, not the 700 odd m/s the 150 odd % the module information would have you believe
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:21:00 - [34] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:25:25 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: DrunkenOne And a crow is still the most common inty and does pwn damage to a wolf at long range, for example. Maybe in specific setups an inty would win, but I have a hard time seeing how a Crow would win against, say, an Enyo unless the Crow was specifically set up for some weird anti-Enyo setup. If they orbit at 15-20 km they get torn to shreds by railguns. If they close to web range they get webbed and torn to shreds. With t2 rails, it doesn't take many volleys to equal one dead Crow. All this time, the Enyo's defenders will have cut down the missile spam to tankable levels. Sure, they could orbit far ourside railgun range - but in that case the Enyo pilot has time to go get a cup of coffee and still warp away ...but as everything in Eve, there's always an exception and specialized setups can always kill specific targets. In the general case, I'd lay my money on the AF in an inty vs. AF fight. I've yet to find a really working Ishkur setup, though. ...if the enyo is using rails then he is not in a short range setup so your point is moot. My entire argument is that short range assaults (blasters, autocannons)=worthless vs inties cause they cant kill the long range ones, and long range assaults (rails, arty) are worthless because short range inties kill them. Obviously an enyo with rails (setup for long range) will kill a crow which is setup for long range). I've got the no-sig blues.
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:21:00 - [35] Originally by: DrunkenOne Even with a webber they pop easilly. That needs some explanation. How do you pop a harpy with a web, a missile launcher und a decent tank before it kills you? If you are in web range, you will get hit by missiles and turrets will also hit a few times. If you are not in web range, you will get shot by 4x 150mm or even worse 125mm railguns. Ill tell you my harpy setup, which i use to drive away enemy scramblers in larger fleet battles. (there is no srambler in my setup since it doesnt matter if i kill a frig or not, as long as it does not scramble one of our bs im fine ...) 4x150mm rail tech2, 1xstd Launcher 1x small shield booster tech2, 1x anoided em hardener, 1x web 90% and 1x cap recharger (no cpu left for something else :) ) 2x tracking enhancer tech 2 to give me extra range With which ceptor, setup and tactic would you counter that? Maybe assuming youd meet me at a stargate.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:23:00 - [36] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:23:55 Originally by: Spuki Originally by: DrunkenOne Even with a webber they pop easilly. That needs some explanation. How do you pop a harpy with a web, a missile launcher und a decent tank before it kills you? If you are in web range, you will get hit by missiles and turrets will also hit a few times. If you are not in web range, you will get shot by 4x 150mm or even worse 125mm railguns. Ill tell you my harpy setup, which i use to drive away enemy scramblers in larger fleet battles. (there is no srambler in my setup since it doesnt matter if i kill a frig or not, as long as it does not scramble one of our bs im fine ...) 4x150mm rail tech2, 1xstd Launcher 1x small shield booster tech2, 1x anoided em hardener, 1x web 90% and 1x cap recharger (no cpu left for something else :) ) 2x tracking enhancer tech 2 to give me extra range With which ceptor, setup and tactic would you counter that? Maybe assuming youd meet me at a stargate. Would you fit a gistii? I'm interested in how fast I could break your tank with a gistii. Maybe we can meet up somewhere north (or south if you are still down here). I've got the no-sig blues.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:28:00 - [37] Originally by: DrunkenOne ...if the enyo is using rails then he is not in a short range setup so your point is moot. My entire argument is that short range assaults (blasters, autocannons)=worthless vs inties cause they cant kill the long range ones, and long range assaults (rails, arty) are worthless because short range inties kill them. Ah, ok. Well, doesn't that apply to any ship class? "Long range X is worthless because short range Y kills it, and vice versa"? Sure, inties are strong because they can dictate range, so a Taranis can get to short range if it wants (unlike an AF), but I would by no means calls AFs worthless. Agreed that short range AFs can't do much against long range inties, but the other way around I'm not totally convinced... webbed, you should still be a possible target for rails. But maybe not, will have to test. If the inty is packing a tracking disrupter, it could get nasty.
Vigilant	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:29:00 - [38] All I remember is TurtleHead saying in local.... "Damm I hate Assault Frigs" as he warped out in Claw... a half a second from lock with my Ishkur (4 T2 125's, Web, 8 Drones) all getting ready to bang away... BTW... TurtleHead...that was some good fun On the subject.... AF's can be mean... but what you enemy is flying, should always determine if you attack or run... assuming you care about your ship
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:31:00 - [39] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:01:47 Originally by: Elita Eoun Originally by: DrunkenOne By "long range" I mean rails on a harpy, arties on a wolf, etc. By "short range" I mean blasters on a harpy, autocannons on a wolf, etc. Mkay, makes sense. Anyway now you will either have to convince us (with us I mean the "non belivers" in this thread) by stating with what inty, setup and strategy you would own a harpy with 150mm railguns "easy", OR come out as boasting as you state no facts other than "I own all AF easy in my ceptor". Im not trying to be rude here, I just think you have to back it up some way I told you. Any combat inty, with the probably exception of the taranis cause it would take too long and the harpy could just jump out. And as for what setup? One I came up with, that won't be release to the public, sorry. People in the last 2 days using my setup killing harpies in solo inties: http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9472 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9525 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9474 <---hawk so basically the same thing http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9399 http://five.killboard.net/?p=details&id=9305 I can add any other assault frig if you want. lol no **** that u killed them. they all had stupid setups. I've yet to see an inty that kills my harpy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Arbenowskee lol no **** that u killed them. they all had stupid setups. I've yet to see an inty that kills my harpy. If you or any other harpy pilots would like a 1v1 please convo or evemail me ingame. I've got the no-sig blues.

Bagdh Dearg	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Elita Eoun The role of the AF is to kill other frigates This is the shipclass I enjoy the most. Somebody posted that it would be owned by some intys, I would say that an inty owning a AF is a "freak accident" that could happen if some strange fittings were involved (like inty with jammer or something similar). In my experience the harpy (i guess other AF work similar) will kill an inty in seconds. Sometimes its not even necessary to use a scrambler. I would take on 2-3 intys on my own anytime. Cruisers are another matter, they can be nasty since they have plenty of slots and you dont know what to expect. Engage with caution, a standard thorax setup for frig killing can be really nasty. May I ask about your Anti-Intie Setup.I got Jumped by two Inties and they were on me so fast I hadnt the chance to hit them with 125mm's before they were swarming all over me. I tank the guys before the got bored and left but Id like to be able to Deal some damage.Blasters on are harpy? _______________________________________________ An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:40:00 - [42] Sorry, only have one gistii which i dont use in pvp any more. Im up in north again but you will see me more often in a raptor or a thorax than my harpy. Its not because assaults suck or something like that, but i like using other ships from time to time :) With a gistii sb ive been able to tank an almost perfectly skilled crow pilot using the missiles with my weakest ressistances, infinite. But thats been another setup with power diags in lows and no guns active. The only ceptor that i could see able to eat through a harpys tank in time is a claw with armor plates and em/explo ammo. But it still cant web and scramble, so usually no big deal to escape from that.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:46:00 - [43] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 15:46:37 Originally by: Spuki The problem i have with that arranged fights are that you can perfectly prepare your fitting for me. Dont wanna fight something like a tanked stiletto with a racial jammer a defender launcher and fittings you¦d never really use in pvp otherwise. I use the same setup no matter what I'm fighting, and jamming in 1v1s is usually prohibited. I've got the no-sig blues.
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.21 15:46:00 - [44] Originally by: DrunkenOne Originally by: Arbenowskee lol no **** that u killed them. they all had stupid setups. I've yet to see an inty that kills my harpy. If you or any other harpy pilots would like a 1v1 please convo or evemail me ingame. The problem i have with that arranged fights are that you can perfectly prepare your fitting for me. Dont wanna fight something like a tanked stiletto with a racial jammer a defender launcher and fittings you¦d never really use in pvp otherwise.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.06.21 16:12:00 - [45] 2005.06.20 23:59:00 Victim: StreetPharmacist Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Celestial Apocalypse Destroyed Type: Harpy Solar System: HED-GP System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Hobblin I (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.4 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Supremacy Ship Type: Crusader Weapon Type: Dual Light Pulse Laser II Destroyed items: Type: 125mm Railgun II (Fitted - High slot) Type: 125mm Railgun II (Fitted - High slot) Type: 125mm Railgun II (Fitted - High slot) Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 192 Type: Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Warp Disruptor I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Antimatter Charge S (Cargo) Quantity: 2485 Type: Magnetic Field Stabilizer II (Fitted - Low slot) Type: Small Shield Booster II (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Tracking Enhancer II (Fitted - Low slot) Type: 'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I (Fitted - High slot) Type: Antimatter Charge S (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 50 Type: Antimatter Charge S (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 50 Type: Antimatter Charge S (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 50
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 16:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Hobblin I Drunk told me his setup and now I can kill assaults too, yay! I also want his manbabies Shh later hunny. I've got the no-sig blues.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.06.21 16:21:00 - [47] hehe editted msg Drunk. Think you have the ability to type what others wanted to :p Anyhow, trackign disruptors are fine on 3 mid slot ships.. the 2 midslot variety don't quite have the options. Its always nice to see the xyz misses you completely msg. Though, his piranha missiles did hit me was at 85% armor when he popped.. and then his buddy in a tempest killed me as I finished him off. Think he didn't expect to die, didn't even say GF back to me :(
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 16:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Hobblin I hehe editted msg Drunk. Think you have the ability to type what others wanted to :p I've got the no-sig blues.
T34R4k	Posted - 2005.06.21 17:00:00 - [49] I like my enyo Its a nice fight against a close range claw when you've got rails fitted. @5 nice that you have to post killmails here .. so whats about posting losses too? 1on1 Enyo vs Claw 2on2 Enyo Claw vs Jaguar Claw
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 17:02:00 - [50] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 21/06/2005 17:06:36 Originally by: T34R4k I like my enyo Its a nice fight against a close range claw when you've got rails fitted. @5 nice that you have to post killmails here .. so whats about posting losses too? 1on1 Enyo vs Claw 2on2 Enyo Claw vs Jaguar Claw Awesome, so you posted a kill involving 2 of you vs 1 of me, and a kill not involving me. Fantastic, that totally proves your point. Especially seeing how your enyo lived in about 1/2 structure and you only lived cause of the claw. And as far as "post losses too!!!" no one using this setup from 5 has died to an assault frigate yet in a 1v1, so I don't see how any other kills would matter. I've died in that setup twice now, once to the 2 of you (and you would have died without the claw), and once to 3 F-E inties, of which I killed 2. And Hobblin died to a sniper tempest, which once again has nothing to do with assault frigates. I've got the no-sig blues.

T34R4k	Posted - 2005.06.21 17:14:00 - [51] 1. i havent posted Hobblins kill 2. u engaged me while a jag was shooting me
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.21 17:16:00 - [52] Originally by: T34R4k 1. i havent posted Hobblins kill 2. u engaged me while a jag was shooting me you said @5 which means not just me, and hobblin posted a kill as well. If you would like to 1v1 then evemail or convo me ingame, or chase me when you are camping in hed. I've got the no-sig blues.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.06.21 20:27:00 - [53] Edited by: Stormfront on 21/06/2005 20:35:20 edit: nvm
Unbeleever	Posted - 2005.06.21 22:29:00 - [54] WOLF ftw very good AF IMHO, good point defence ship, not a good tackler IMO. I fought a caracal toe to toe, and took him down without to much trouble, T2 280's do really good dmg tracking sucks but, 43.75% painter and hits really good. Put a webby on instead of painter and inty's will go pop in 2 to 3 vollys with a G-Stab 2. AF's sre good but have dif roles for dif ships. Wolf=Fig killer, and can pound on cruisers pretty good. I took heavy fire from a brutix and got a 290 wrecker. The resistences are sick also Spelling sucks I know For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!! Then all of the voices are satisfied.
Nanus Parkite	Posted - 2005.06.21 23:09:00 - [55] Whatever the ships certain setups will beat certain other setups. I think the problem with Drunken Ones arguement is that he has a specific setup for taking on AF's. If and AF pilot knew this setup then I'm sure they'd have no trouble countering it. Oh and AF's don't suck you just have to gamble where you use it. Unlike a BS you can't fit them to have a good chance against anything. So fit it to take on certain classes and only get into fights you can win. P.S. Don't fit an MWD on your AF, just get a nice T2 AB.
MineallMine	Posted - 2005.06.21 23:31:00 - [56] Exactly. A Wolf with 280's vs an autoclaw /shudder A Wolf with 4x 200mm IIs, a webber, a painter, 2X gyros, a rep II, and a kinetic hardener? A different story. Of course that Wolf wouldn't do so hot against a crow now would it? To the original point though ... what's the point of an AF? Well, they're a blast for lvl 3s, and in a mixed fleet battle they are great for anti-tackling and podding. But in a 1 vs 1, as pointed out by many in this thread, their lack of speed makes them vulnerable to intys and thier lack of HP makes them vulnerable to the big boys.
Corin Walker	Posted - 2005.06.21 23:39:00 - [57] ^^^^^ I fought a caracal killed him, a crow warped in right at the end I locked and fired under my optimal mind you, and striped his shields completely + a little armour. He ran, MY point the crow in EXP hands is a deadly ship, but if i webb the same crow and at optimal and you stay and fight, the wolf should own the crow. IMHO only mind you
Unbeleever	Posted - 2005.06.21 23:40:00 - [58] ^^^^^^ ME sorry stupid fourm thingy bad fourm For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!! Then all of the voices are satisfied.
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.06.22 00:00:00 - [59] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Target painters are fine, they're just bugged versus anything with an MWD. WHY CANT PEOPLE FIGURE THIS OUT?! Maybe because 49% t2 frigs use mwd? 1% are intys with AB. Anyone who puts a MWD on a Assault frig deserves to get the crap blown outta them. Check the Mass people!!! not ment to be going 3k/s!!! ABs are for assaults, MWDs are for interceptors. Assaults are awesome. You can blow up interceptors in a matter of seconds. If they are far away, you got the range and small guns tracking to shoot em, if they are close, you can web em. You also do great damage. Smart bombs and Heavy Nosf are your greatest problems. Missiles will be fine after the patch. _______________________________________________
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.22 05:01:00 - [60] A gank setup on an AF is pretty fun. Inties come within ~20km and go BOOM! However, the main problem I find is that cruisers and battleships are equally good at pwning AFs (and inties). Cruisers and HACs pwning AFs handilly I accept happily, but BS should not have such an annoyingly easy job of it. Sig-based missile dps nerf alone isn't quite enough. Tech1 frigs and AFs should have more survivability vs. BS - and tech1 frigs should do more damage than inties, but inties should be more evasive and have better tackling and prey catching abilities. I want tech1 frigs to become more popular and more useful because I want to shoot at them, and I want more people to be flying in cruisers so they can shoot at me in an entertaining way. AFs, and frigates in general, are not meant to be tanked, that is just wrong! Damage and tracking mods ftw! Locking Times & Evil Asteroids

DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.22 05:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Maxine Stirner AFs, and frigates in general, are not meant to be tanked, that is just wrong! Damage and tracking mods ftw! I've got the no-sig blues.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.06.22 05:53:00 - [62] Originally by: Maxine Stirner A gank setup on an AF is pretty fun. Inties come within ~20km and go BOOM! However, the main problem I find is that cruisers and battleships are equally good at pwning AFs (and inties). Cruisers and HACs pwning AFs handilly I accept happily, but BS should not have such an annoyingly easy job of it. Sig-based missile dps nerf alone isn't quite enough. Tech1 frigs and AFs should have more survivability vs. BS - and tech1 frigs should do more damage than inties, but inties should be more evasive and have better tackling and prey catching abilities. I want tech1 frigs to become more popular and more useful because I want to shoot at them, and I want more people to be flying in cruisers so they can shoot at me in an entertaining way. AFs, and frigates in general, are not meant to be tanked, that is just wrong! Damage and tracking mods ftw! So wait, you're saying that AFs NOT fitted for tanking should be able to survive versus BS?
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2005.06.22 06:05:00 - [63] I seen drunks setup assasinate intys also.
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.22 08:08:00 - [64] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK So wait, you're saying that AFs NOT fitted for tanking should be able to survive versus BS? Depends on how badly the BS pilot is willing to gimp that lumbering beast against other battleships and HACs. I'm saying tech1 frigates should be able to survive against (evade) 1 ungimped BS indefinitely. 1 AF ought to be able be able to kill a completely untanked (no reps) BS after 10 to 15 minutes, provided they don't 1)get help, 2)started logging 16-21 minutes earlier, 3)be already damaged, 4)nos/web and jump to safety. 1.5-2 pounder fitted AFs ought to be able to slowly strip a lightly tanked BS to nothing. 2.5 AFs ought to be able to very slowly strip a heavy tanked BS to nothing but with plenty of time for reinforcements to arrive. BS should be able to last a long, long time against frigates, but their immunity to them should not be guaranteed by both their rapid-kill-anything weapons AND cap charge + repair efficiency. All ships are disposable or no ships are disposable. Large turrets, even with target painters and/or web should still suck really bad against Frigates. Cruisers are the ideal frig slaughtering machines. A torp on frigate-sig dps nerf isn't going to be enough to rehabillitate both frigates and cruisers to reestablish the necessity of their presence on the battlefield. The chain must be reestablished. Order must be restored in the universe. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.06.22 08:38:00 - [65] Hey, I'm all for restoring order to the universe too, but I don't think a battleship should have NO chance of killing an AF. Assault Ships have their purpose, killing frigs and interceptors. And while they should be able to avoid most fire by a BS, they shouldn't be immune. When it comes down to it, the BS pilot spent more on his ship than the Assault Ship pilot. The Assault Ship should be able to get away from the BS without getting instapwned, but it shouldn't be able to spend all day flying circles around it. If it weren't for Heavy Nosferatus, that is exactly where frigs would be today. Completely invulnerable to the largest ships in the game. Assault Ships are already getting a nice survivability boost with the missile patch in that they won't be torp bait, but they don't need to be made invincible.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.06.22 12:00:00 - [66] Edited by: LUKEC on 22/06/2005 12:05:41 Teh evil claw setup: hi: 150mm acs II, rocket launcher med: web, mwd probably low: 400mm tungsten plate, passive kin. membrane t2 + whatever you need to fit above With the beautiful minmater base resistances you have: 80% to em, 10%expl, 53%kin, 35% th resist and ~1100 armor. Why this thing works so well: claw has 40pg & 4 low slots. 150mm acs t2 need: 2PG 6cpu. So you need 7PG for hi slots. And another 18 for med slots IF you put on MWD t2. That leaves you with 25 pg left. Add mapc(+12.5pg) and you can fit plate(30pg, ~19cpu), membrane(2pg, 30cpu) and still have ~5pg left. (maybe add another plate or regenerative t2 membrane ) Why this works so f00kin well: 150mm ac is superior to gatling pulse t2 in just everything. 4km falloff and 500m optimal >>> 6700optimal and 500m fallof All you need is to put in EMP and hit for more dmg at 3km than laser with uv Normalized dmg is a bit higher. Tracking is far better(0.35 vs 0.28), basicly as good as blasters. No cap for guns Dmg types really hurt. No problem to pwn enyo with emp or fusion(or whatever expl. + th ammo is). But it takes ages to kill armor with lasers. I'm tempted to put these guns on crusader. Now go figure.
slip66	Posted - 2005.06.22 12:23:00 - [67] Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's no you just want a uber tackler & dmg dealer that can tank :P The overall lack of speed keeps its role defined.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.06.22 13:06:00 - [68] Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 22/06/2005 12:05:41 Teh evil claw setup: hi: 150mm acs II, rocket launcher med: web, mwd probably low: 400mm tungsten plate, passive kin. membrane t2 + whatever you need to fit above Yup, you can also do something like this with the Ares and blasters (though the Claw is superior in most respects). Still, people tend to think the Ares sucks and it's always nice to give them a surprise. ...oh, it does suck, but "sucks" != "totally useless" ;)
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.06.22 13:34:00 - [69] i would guess a 3 mid slot interceptor running a tracking disruptor and staying out of web range could own an arty/rail fitted AF. Of course u would need to use the correct dmg too but i can imagine its totally doable. Ive fought a kestrel in a rail ranis and i couldnt touch him cos he had a tracking disruptor on and i couldnt hit Forums: Sharks - MC
Bazman	Posted - 2005.06.22 13:36:00 - [70] Originally by: slip66 Originally by: Bazman Assault Frigs are generally quite good, but they really need to have their mass unnerfed so that they can hit maybe 1800m/s to 2000m/s with MWD's. They are just too slow to be truely effective, all you'll ever catch with them solo are cruisers or maybe other AF's no you just want a uber tackler & dmg dealer that can tank :P The overall lack of speed keeps its role defined. My bad, i should have specified Gallente Assaults :P You see, i have weakness for blasters, i love them, and i've experimented with them on the Gallente assaults to no avail, no matter what you do, you just can't get them to work. It pains me :P (ishkurs sort of work with blasters, sort of...)

Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.22 15:04:00 - [71] Edited by: Spuki on 22/06/2005 15:06:03 Originally by: Eyeshadow i would guess a 3 mid slot interceptor running a tracking disruptor and staying out of web range could own an arty/rail fitted AF. Of course u would need to use the correct dmg too but i can imagine its totally doable. Ive fought a kestrel in a rail ranis and i couldnt touch him cos he had a tracking disruptor on and i couldnt hit Guess you will have big troubles with your cap when running mwd, scrambler, weapons and the disruptor. Maybe a crow with lots of CPR in the low slots could achieve this. On the other hand, it may be better to turn mwd off anyway ...
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.06.22 15:13:00 - [72] Actually ive just found out his setup, thanks to someone else . Very clever, but it is a setup that wont do much else other than kill other frigs (AF/ceptors etc) and even then it takes patience and a bit of luck Forums: Sharks - MC
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.22 15:18:00 - [73] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 15:26:09 Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 22/06/2005 12:05:41 Teh evil claw setup: hi: 150mm acs II, rocket launcher med: web, mwd probably low: 400mm tungsten plate, passive kin. membrane t2 + whatever you need to fit above With the beautiful minmater base resistances you have: 80% to em, 10%expl, 53%kin, 35% th resist and ~1100 armor. Why this thing works so well: claw has 40pg & 4 low slots. 150mm acs t2 need: 2PG 6cpu. So you need 7PG for hi slots. And another 18 for med slots IF you put on MWD t2. That leaves you with 25 pg left. Add mapc(+12.5pg) and you can fit plate(30pg, ~19cpu), membrane(2pg, 30cpu) and still have ~5pg left. (maybe add another plate or regenerative t2 membrane ) Thats the standard 150/plate setup that maya made popular. Well, not popular, but you know what I mean. Cept for the kinetic membrane, which I don't think you can fit do to cpu AND grid. But no thats not what I use. Originally by: Eyeshadow Actually ive just found out his setup, thanks to someone else . Very clever, but it is a setup that wont do much else other than kill other frigs (AF/ceptors etc) and even then it takes patience and a bit of luck Noooooooooooooooo h4x . And I've already said several times that it is a solo hunting setup. I've got the no-sig blues.
Spuki	Posted - 2005.06.22 15:42:00 - [74] The only things that stops me from creating a "OMG nerv the claw" thread is the lack of a third med slot. This leaves a claw pretty much useles in a fleet and makes it a toy for solo gankers or in frig fleets.
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.22 17:30:00 - [75] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK When it comes down to it, the BS pilot spent more on his ship than the Assault Ship pilot. You really do not want to go with this arguement. Really. A torp costs, what 600 isk? A tech1 frigate costs, let's see.. 1000x times that amount for the most basic setup. You only need 4-5 of them before the dps change. A drone costs, 80k? x10 is 800k. An AF costs.. hmm well you know, if you give AF it's niche, then people are going to be fitting 50M individual mods on them, or more. The difference in cost of a BS to AF is about 10x. The difference of basic piloting skills is about par. The fitting skills on AF are steeper. The organizational reqs of piloting an AF are currently more severe. The BS is a casual ship currently, and it is STUPID to expect that it should remain in repose without remotely adjusting its setup to handle something technically outside its niche without breaking a sweat even when it is flying solo. Don't give us the frigate swarm bs line, or the "oh my friend mr.stupendous blah," because outnumbering someone is irrelevant. You will always win (eventually) if you vastly outnumber a lone person so it is not important to design thinking. Do you think that only dreads should be able to tackle or defeat dreads? Or will I need a dread gang in order to defeat lone dreads? Do we always have to count on their being a stupid lone person in order to actually see steady mixed combat? Not everyone agrees that HP on BS should be increased while tanking efficiency should decrease. That at least is a valid view with concrete reasons backing it up. Not unsolvable reasons, but still. The idea that the BS should be the only piloting objective out there, and the only thing worth spending much dosh on is both pigheaded and imbecilic. We are playing a game here. The point of the game is not to round off your corners for you so you can get back to the grind.. it is to invoke strategy and for player interaction to be aesthetically pleasing. Mixed fleets are the culmination of strategy. If everyone was supposed to fly a BS, there would be really crappy BS that handled exactly the same way but didn't work for ***. And only level 70 paladin BS flyers would goosestep around in invulnerable formation when they were going to invulnerable mode while they answer the phone. There is a perfectly exceptional response for dealing with the presence of AFs who could, might* pose a threat to foolish BS even though that is not their main objective, which is killing inties and frigs efficiently when untanked -- that answer is Cruisers. They were created for a reason.. it's not that hard to figure out. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.22 17:44:00 - [76] Being able to fly a frigate or cruiser or battleship well, in it's own niche on the battlefield adds that individualistic touch that is so important to fleet or gang action. Simply flying a BS that can hit or scare off anything but another BS or HAC when solo is frankly boring at the very least. In current fleet tactics, nothing counts more than coherency of following a single order, and picking targets to vaporize in the proper order while some EW support gets to have a bit of semi-random tactical fun. Fleets and gangs tend not to even collide. Dullsville. When you have ship class mechanics that encourage the formation of mixed fleets, and specialization paths that encourge elite individual combat role preference, then situations automatically arise where more decisions can be left to the individual or a squad within a larger gang or fleet. It is the mixture of coherent and individual choices which makes the mixed fleet mechanics such a valuable strategy enhancement to the battlefield. I don't know how to make anyone understand or convince anyone of this beyond what I've said. I guess you just have to come to it on your own. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
Weirda	Posted - 2005.06.22 17:55:00 - [77] Finally you post something Weirda agree with Maxine! Good job, doubt many will take time to read it - and will instead flame a single out of context point. You have expressed Weirda's goals of what 'mixed' means... just really looking more for 'mixed space' (not just mixed fleet or gang). -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSIO
Altai Saker	Posted - 2005.06.22 18:20:00 - [78] Assualt frigs are awful outside of point defense in fleet fights tbh, I wont fly one :/ and tbh, none of you know drunks setup except probably eyeshadow(I didnt tell him)so tbh, I would act a little more reserved when you see someone post those kinds of kills from an interceptor. Maybe show some respect?
Bruchpilot	Posted - 2005.06.22 18:46:00 - [79] Well, I know his setup and I guess there are so many ppl in [5] flying with it that it won't be "secret" after 1-2 weeks. It's very specialised, too like an AF w/longrange guns so I miss your point here DrunkenOne. I still prefer Maya's setup since it's much more flexible. (our 2vs2 was a situation where it's more usefull) But tbh: I didn't fly Intys much till I figured out how powerfull the Claw is. It makes AFs... pointless... And it's much more fun.
Moridan	Posted - 2005.06.22 19:18:00 - [80] Just don't warp into 50k from a munin in one ;) "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."

Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.22 19:24:00 - [81] I want to apologize to ELECTROFREAK for my earlier post. He's actually a pretty standup guy in min chat and didn't deserve that outburst. The mean labels aren't directed at him, or I don't think they were meant to be but at people in general. It's just something about this issue and general apathy to it that just makes me see red. I'll be good, I promise. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.22 19:45:00 - [82] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 19:46:18 Originally by: Bruchpilot Well, I know his setup and I guess there are so many ppl in [5] flying with it that it won't be "secret" after 1-2 weeks. It's very specialised, too like an AF w/longrange guns so I miss your point here DrunkenOne. I still prefer Maya's setup since it's much more flexible. (our 2vs2 was a situation where it's more usefull) But tbh: I didn't fly Intys much till I figured out how powerfull the Claw is. It makes AFs... pointless... And it's much more fun. Yeah that one fight we had showed the weakness as you had mayas setup so i couldnt run over to engage you because you were too far away and had to engage the enyo first, and lost when you came back. But yeah I'm sure a lot of celes pilots know the setup now since theres at least 7 or 8 [5] pilots using the setup on crusaders and claws, and you guys have lost a lot of harpies lately. And I'm glad you agree with me that claws make assaults useless I've got the no-sig blues.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.22 20:05:00 - [83] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 20:05:36 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=193151&page=1 Enjoy. I've got the no-sig blues.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.22 20:07:00 - [84] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 20:05:36 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=193151&page=1 Enjoy. Don't think your setup will work post patch drunk & maya nerfed are you ________________________________________________________
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.22 20:11:00 - [85] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 20:05:36 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=193151&page=1 Enjoy. Don't think your setup will work post patch drunk & maya nerfed are you Dont see how that applies as i dont have anything offline. It wont fit cause of rocket launcher increases. I've got the no-sig blues.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.22 20:21:00 - [86] Originally by: DrunkenOne Originally by: Meridius Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/06/2005 20:05:36 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=193151&page=1 Enjoy. Don't think your setup will work post patch drunk & maya nerfed are you Dont see how that applies as i dont have anything offline. It wont fit cause of rocket launcher increases. Well i wasn't sure Quote: However, the reason it has returned in another form is that it is our only constraint that prevents oversized modules from being fitted. And there are modules that we do not want fitted if your ship should not allow it. Thats what i thought would nerf it... ________________________________________________________
babo	Posted - 2005.06.22 20:55:00 - [87] In defense of AF's, you should poke around killboards and see the kills done with AF's For people saying they are killed a lot, they are often killed because of their roles in fleet, interceptors are blown up a lot too.. However, you will notice a lot of enyo + intys (taranis usually) combo's killing battleships and BC's and with the new changes to bubbles small gank squads can do even better.. For small squads in anti small ship roles, the ishkur is great, stops and tears up lots of little ships fast..... For PVE, mission runners love the enyo as you can easily burn through a ton of missions fast in an enyo.. i.e. about three times as many as if you were doing them in a battleship... AF's are not 'the' uber ship and need to be set up right, but they will serve you well in pvp. does your ship have a dronebay? If so, sign the petition..


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