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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 16:18:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Derisor
It boggles the mind how so many people cant state their opinion politely without being a complete jerk.
I guess good manners are out of fashion?
As had been mentioned your are reducing the dead hores to greasy stain on the floor...
Lets not forget you seem to be only looking out for yourself...
1. You liked stabs up untill you could not catch people.
2. 0.0 needed changed till you got out there.
3. You wanted powergaming/a lot of newbie help when you were low skilled.
4. I would guess your rat faction standing sucks and don't want to go back to empire space so you want all lvl4s moved to 0.0.
1) True. Unlike others, I will change my mind given appropriate evidence unstead of getting so entrenched in a position. Others are too obsessed with their pride to admit they are wrong sometimes.
2) ??? How so ? Try not to be so vague. What did I say about 0.0 that I didnt mean. The only example is that I think once I propsed sentries on gates there. Bad idea. But again, unlike you, i dont spend time looking in the mirror obssessed with myself. I can admit when Im wrong. 0.0 does need changes but that is because the game should evolve, not stagnate.
3) I still firmly believe the game is too unfriendly to newer players. That opinion hasnt changed. The fact that I am not any longer one of them is irrelevant.
4) Thats what you get for guessing about something you dont know jack about. Your guesses are so far off the mark it is amazing. The reasons I thought about moving those missions to 0.0 are clearly laid out in the original post. You just have to put away the mirror and stop admiring yourself long enough to read it.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 16:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
I like the idea.
lvl 2 agents @ 0.5+
lvl 3 agents @ 0.1-0.4
lvl 4 agents @ 0.0
But hey, that'd force people to have a risk while making money, and we all know people don't like risk/reward.
Carebears
LOL ... exactly what I was thinking. They dont like it when I attack their sugar-daddy do they?
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.23 16:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Derisor
When they implement a search function and dev tracker you can tell me to do this. Until then Im not going to page through thousands of posts every time I wish to post something.
Dont ***** at me, ***** at CCP.
I wasn't *****ing at anybody. Calm down.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Mistress D'Malice
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:01:00 -
[34]
Moving them to 0.0? Never happen nor should it...
Either make lv 4 missions COMPLETELY un-soloable...or move them low sec. But sitting in 1.0 space while raking in 100's of millions is very bad for the economy.
------------------------------------------------
Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com
Contact Me - [email protected] |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:29:00 -
[35]
I've found I make noticeably more from bounties/loot in a good 0.0 system than bounties/loot/rewards from low security space lvl4 agent (EQ 43).
Oh and they are generally incredibly dull, though more fun as a group.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:37:00 -
[36]
Two things: firstly if you are solo'ing level 4's it's going to take a while to do the mission (depending on skills and setup) - I'm guessing you could probably mine Kernite for the same amount of time and not make a huge amount less in cash that way.
Secondly, as has been stated many times before, moving stuff into lower and lower sec doesn't encourage players to move into lower and lower sec. This has become something of an urban myth. People aren't pigeons following a trail of breadcrumbs. If you move them, less people will do them.
Putting them into 0.0 is a totally silly idea because most of 0.0 is locked down by one dumbass alliance or another - effectively making level 4 agent missions EXCLUSIVE to those alliances and not open to all (much like the good roids). If you look at the Eve demographic *and I can't emphasise this enough* A LOT OF PEOPLE QUITE LIKE BEING RELATIVELY SAFE BY HANGING ABOUT IN EMPIRE - and those people pay subs like everybody else, so they need content to keep 'em coming.
It's a No Brainer!!!! 
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:38:00 -
[37]
The fact that mission runners can drop 500mil on social skill drops, and bid 6 BILLION on faction ships should tell people something.
Heck, I went back to mission running a bit last week. Got the rogue drone mission twice in a row. Made 45mil in about an hour and a half off the minerals. 
I mean, yeah, I LIKE making that kind of isk, but it can't be healthy to the game eceonomy.
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Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:41:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
Moving them to 0.0? Never happen nor should it...
Either make lv 4 missions COMPLETELY un-soloable...or move them low sec. But sitting in 1.0 space while raking in 100's of millions is very bad for the economy.
No it isn't, when people are selling Tech II stuff for hundreds of millions. Are you saying you want the only way to become wealthy in Eve to be mining 0.0 roids or getting the lucky chance of a Tech II BP? Pleeeeeaaaasseee. Level 4's require time and effort to solo + also some risk (you have to concentrate believe it or not), effort should be rewarded.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:45:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Aitrus on 23/06/2005 17:46:41
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
Moving them to 0.0? Never happen nor should it...
Either make lv 4 missions COMPLETELY un-soloable...or move them low sec. But sitting in 1.0 space while raking in 100's of millions is very bad for the economy.
No it isn't, when people are selling Tech II stuff for hundreds of millions. Are you saying you want the only way to become wealthy in Eve to be mining 0.0 roids or getting the lucky chance of a Tech II BP? Pleeeeeaaaasseee. Level 4's require time and effort to solo + also some risk (you have to concentrate believe it or not), effort should be rewarded.
Judging from your comments you've never lived in 0.0 and have no idea what real work and effort is. Living in empire is a cakewalk. Even 'trying really hard' to solo lvl 4's in your raven is easy. As you said, effort should be rewarded.
BTW, the only way people can sell tech II stuff for millions is because they HAVE the millions to spend. Again, people pay 500mil for skillbooks to increase LP rewards. Seriously, think about that.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:49:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/06/2005 10:58:16
We don't have any plans of beefing up the rewards of the Navy ships this patch, but we did beef up the rewards of pirate mission running a bit. A few changes worth mentioning:
1) NPC navy tag offers more widely available.
2) New implant-giving important mission sequences added, more for the pirate agents than Empire.
3) Pirate implant offers implemented, these are of course only available for pirate agents, but for the non-pirate players out there you can still acquire them by killing officers in 0.0.
4) Running pirate missions will no longer directly affect your standing with CONCORD, however killing CONCORD officers in missions will of course still affect this standing (but there is always the decline option for those missions).
5) Running pirate missions will no longer destroy your standing with all Empire factions, instead it mainly just affects the direct rivals of the pirate faction you're working for and their allies.
6) We're lowering the bounties on big pirate complex rats (such as battleships) to limit the ISK cash cow that is high-level agent and complex running. Navy tag bounties remain unaffected with this change however, so that is in a sense a boost to pirate agents.
See part 6. I am starting to feel that the missile changes were a prelude to nerfing L4 missions, and not having the slightest thing to do with PVP.
I dunno. Maybe I'll go mine again.
www.hadean.org
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Astarte Nosferatu
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:59:00 -
[41]
Yes, they should be moved into low sec space (0.4-0.0).
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Follower of the Blood Revolution.
Sani Sabik. |
Karol Kei
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:08:00 -
[42]
No, they shouldn't be yet another thing for alliances to farm.
Instead, they should be balanced to give proper rewards and boosted in difficulty.
Apparently 0.0 is getting some love too, with more officers etc in spawns, which ought to balance things a bit, too.
What is this "large risk" in 0.0 ISK farming (ratting, mining etc), BTW? To be ganked once every two months when AFK on a toilet break?
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Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Aitrus
Judging from your comments you've never lived in 0.0 and have no idea what real work and effort is. Living in empire is a cakewalk. Even 'trying really hard' to solo lvl 4's in your raven is easy. As you said, effort should be rewarded.
BTW, the only way people can sell tech II stuff for millions is because they HAVE the millions to spend. Again, people pay 500mil for skillbooks to increase LP rewards. Seriously, think about that.
I have lived as a member of CFS and Xetic in 0.0, so I know what it's all about thanks. What is the problem with people having millions to spend and people selling things for millions? What difference does it make? Add 3 zeros to the equation, remove 3 zeros. It's the same. Who cares?
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Mistress D'Malice
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Posted - 2005.06.23 19:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
Originally by: Aitrus
Judging from your comments you've never lived in 0.0 and have no idea what real work and effort is. Living in empire is a cakewalk. Even 'trying really hard' to solo lvl 4's in your raven is easy. As you said, effort should be rewarded.
BTW, the only way people can sell tech II stuff for millions is because they HAVE the millions to spend. Again, people pay 500mil for skillbooks to increase LP rewards. Seriously, think about that.
I have lived as a member of CFS and Xetic in 0.0, so I know what it's all about thanks. What is the problem with people having millions to spend and people selling things for millions? What difference does it make? Add 3 zeros to the equation, remove 3 zeros. It's the same. Who cares?
The problem is that the only people that can effectively gain the billions are agent runners, high end miners before the bottom fell out and the select industrial entreprenuer(sp?).
Perhaps make it so when a ship is being destoyed in PvP, the capsule ejects but you can capture the ship? :P
------------------------------------------------
Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com
Contact Me - [email protected] |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.06.23 19:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Derisor
1) True. Unlike others, I will change my mind given appropriate evidence unstead of getting so entrenched in a position. Others are too obsessed with their pride to admit they are wrong sometimes.
2) ??? How so ? Try not to be so vague. What did I say about 0.0 that I didnt mean. The only example is that I think once I propsed sentries on gates there. Bad idea. But again, unlike you, i dont spend time looking in the mirror obssessed with myself. I can admit when Im wrong. 0.0 does need changes but that is because the game should evolve, not stagnate.
3) I still firmly believe the game is too unfriendly to newer players. That opinion hasnt changed. The fact that I am not any longer one of them is irrelevant.
4) Thats what you get for guessing about something you dont know jack about. Your guesses are so far off the mark it is amazing. The reasons I thought about moving those missions to 0.0 are clearly laid out in the original post. You just have to put away the mirror and stop admiring yourself long enough to read it.
Actually virtually all of your posts about things to be fixed seem to revole around what others can do that you can't...Heres what I consider to be the relevant part...
Everything else that gains large amounts of money in the game has the large amount of risk of going to 0.0 attached to it. should level 4 missions be the same?
What do you think?
You are now in 0.0 as you have posted when you were complaining about warp stabs. etc...
Lets take your point 2 shall we? All of your posts (that I have read) are about what you are doing at the time and what you concider to wrong with it, seems pretty self centered to me.
This thread maybe considered different unless we igonre the fact that you are now in 0.0 and maybe taking more risks than empire mission runners of which I am one but I am in and out of .4 normally 2 or 3 times a day on most days.
The core of your argument seems to be since you are runing risks why should it be possable for some one to make more or the same amount of ISK for the same/less risk. Now what could not be less self centered than that?
Riddle me this does the area you operate in have lvl4 agents? a simple yes or no answer is sufficent. I would have proven your point a lot better.
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.23 19:45:00 -
[46]
Why would level 4 agent missions be moved to zero land to be block from most the player base? Right now alliances claim entire regions and KOS anyone not a member of their alliance. So added to the fact that they get to mine all the good (rare) ores, they get the NPCs with the unnerfed drops, now they want all the agent missions to be out there just for them also.
Looks like a pretty big dog in that manger.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Sha Dar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 20:55:00 -
[47]
I don't even do level 3 missions, so it wouldn't affect me, but I still say no.
As mentioned in a lot of other posts, approx 95% of the player base play in non 0.0 space.
Why should things be altered to favour the minority 5% just because they seem to whine the loudest ?
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Kular
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Posted - 2005.06.23 21:23:00 -
[48]
Move them to lower sec if you people must, but 0.0 never!
Empire people are happy now, 0.0 people have their crap
let us never speak to each other again thanks!
Home of Ubiqua Seraph
Eve's only all Sarum loyal corporation. |
Mistress D'Malice
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Posted - 2005.06.23 21:54:00 -
[49]
I think most people on both sides would be ok if they just made lv4 missions completely NOT soloable. No matter the ship or skills...you need a group of 3-5 people to finish them or something.
As it is now, agent runners in 1.0 space are completely safe and run no risk other thenthe mission itself. For the risk vs. reward ratio...who wouldn't run missions? If it wasnt so damn boring.
------------------------------------------------
Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com
Contact Me - [email protected] |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.06.23 22:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
I think most people on both sides would be ok if they just made lv4 missions completely NOT soloable. No matter the ship or skills...you need a group of 3-5 people to finish them or something.
say 2 or 3 rather than 3 or 5 and yeah would not bother me. I run missions solo and I run them with corp mbrs and a couple of times random pilots in the system (when I started lvl4s and could not brack some tanks in my scorp).
The worst losses I had on missions was with wingmen  (we twice agroed the entire lvl spawn).
solo more profit and groups more fun I find...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 10:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Karol Kei
No, they shouldn't be yet another thing for alliances to farm.
Instead, they should be balanced to give proper rewards and boosted in difficulty.
Apparently 0.0 is getting some love too, with more officers etc in spawns, which ought to balance things a bit, too.
What is this "large risk" in 0.0 ISK farming (ratting, mining etc), BTW? To be ganked once every two months when AFK on a toilet break?
pffft ... spoken like an empire dweller. I have lived in empire and I have lived in 0.0 and I tell you that 0.0 is ooodles harder just to live.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 10:33:00 -
[52]
oh and with the new entries into 0.0, the control that aliances have over it will be noticably diminished.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Funia
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Posted - 2005.06.24 11:16:00 -
[53]
No they should not be moved to 0.0!
why? course that would for one part seriously ruin my game! level 4 missions are the onely alternative for good isk making in Empire, compared to vast riches in 0.0 the alliances has the oppitunity to mone, and collect bountyes and get VERY good named stuff in the loot.
AND even though the 0.0 is beeing opend up, that dosent help a person with NO desire for PVP, and neither the skill's or mod's to do themn in.
i think it would be wrong to force PvP to players doing level 4's course thats what would happen....
"look here, a raven returning from a level 4 mission, OH! it onely has 1/4 hull and amor left LETs GET IT!!!!" GANK GANK GANK GANK!"
Thats more or less what would be a frequent occurance.
No animals was injured or felt any harm druing the production of this message
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 11:56:00 -
[54]
There are ways to travel safely in 0.0. You just have to open your mind to them rather than sitting petrified in a corner afriad of the world.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.06.24 12:53:00 -
[55]
If they make npc's act more like real player in that they deliver various damage types and attack strategy's thus closer mimiking (sp) real player and forcing people to setup their ships in a way that also is more like a pvp setup then it wouldn't be nearly as bad.
Things like nos should also work against rats.
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AlexK100
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Posted - 2005.06.24 13:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Derisor
There is a lot of talk about level 4 missions being a source of too much money. People can do them to make tens of millions at a time. Now personally i have a hard time with level 3s but then Im not a battleship driver so that is probably why.
Everything else that gains large amounts of money in the game has the large amount of risk of going to 0.0 attached to it. should level 4 missions be the same?
What do you think?
Yeah. I think they all should be moved to GW.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.24 13:32:00 -
[57]
Yet another thread of "I want every one to play my way or not play at all!" Why dont you just play your way and leave the rest to play thiers?
The problem of ravens having a easy time with missions is going away so what is the point of this thread.
I have not had much problem doing missions in my Apoc till I got bored.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.24 13:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Yet another thread of "I want every one to play my way or not play at all!" Why dont you just play your way and leave the rest to play thiers?
This is the bit you just don't get, isn't it?
Everything you do in this game effects other players to a greater or lesser degree.
Your 'they aren't hurting anyone, leave them alone' viewpoint is blinkered and naive.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.06.24 14:04:00 -
[59]
Move the best agents to low secure space, keep the crappy ones at center and give out sets of missions requiring a pilot to travel far to complete them all and not go back and forth all the time like a pavlovian pet.
I remember getting an agent mission sending me into Syndicate space a long time ago. More of those but for the love of highly priced goods, put someone on the agent missions and make them make sense and be more diverse and immersive!
Convert Stations
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.24 14:09:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Derisor
There are ways to travel safely in 0.0. You just have to open your mind to them rather than sitting petrified in a corner afriad of the world.
There are plenty of easy ways into 0.0, yes. People have this mistaken impression that the second they step into 0.0, that system will be a fortress of some kind populated by gate gankers or something. Certainly there IS that chance... but most of the time it's simply not the case.
Originally by: Derisor
oh and with the new entries into 0.0, the control that aliances have over it will be noticably diminished.
I don't think control over huge areas is necessary / will be necessary, to be honest. A lot of systems go unused (for a lot of reasons). But with the new in-roads to 0.0 coming, it's going to be harder to defend territory, and I bet we'll see that territory contract somewhat to make it easier to cover all the bases.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
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