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Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:21:00 - [1] These I believe are the setups in use on Sisi, obviously each one has a choice of long range/short range guns. Here Caldari/Matari ones are setup as long range, Amarr/Gallente as short range. Also Note: 500% increase for siege mode, but that's only for use on starbases Caldari Dreadnought: 3x Citadel launchers, Base stat's 48 sec Rof, 1800 damage/torpedo With max skills: Rof= 48x(0.9)x(0.85)x(0.75)= 27.54 sec [Launcher Op.][Rapid launch][Ship Bonus] Damage= 1800x(1.25)x(1.1)x(1.25)= 3093.75 [Cit.Torp skill][Warhead Upgs.][Ship bonus] Total= 9281 per burst, 337/sec Matari Dreadnought: 2x Citadel launchers, 2x Quad 3500mm, Base stat's 28.69 sec RoF, 8x Dmg, 88 damage ammo Rof(cit.Torps)= as above Damage= 1800x(1.25)x(1.1)= 2475 [Cit.Torp skill][Warhead Upgs.] Rof(3500mm)= 28.65x(0.9)x(0.8)x(0.75)= 15.471 sec [Gunnery][Rapid Fire][Ship bonus] Damage= 8x88x(1.25)x(1.15)= 1012 [Captial ship Proj.][Surgical strike] Total= 6974 per burst (staggered torp/Artillery fire), 245/sec Amaar Dreadnought: 3x Dual Giga Pulse, base stat's 11.81sec RoF, 6x Dmg, 96 damage ammo RoF= 11.81x(0.9)x(0.8)x(0.75)=6.3774sec [Gunnery][Rapid Fire][Ship bonus] Damage= 6x96x (1.25)x(1.15)= 828 [Captial ship laser][Surgical strike] Total= 2484 per burst, 390/sec Gallente Dreadnought: 3x Ion Siege Blaster, base stat's 11.81sec RoF, 7x dmg, 96 damage Ammo RoF= 11.81x(0.9)x(0.)=8.5032sec [Gunnery][Rapid Fire] Damage= 7x96x(1.25)x(1.25)x(1.15)= 1207.5 [Captial ship Hybrid][Ship Bonus][Surg.S] Total= 3623 per burst, 426/sec* Note however, the Gallente Dreadnought can deploy 35 Heavy Drones, where as the others are limited to 10 (220/sec max): Ogre's=1.6x1.25x22x35/2= 770/sec (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Xiliath	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:27:00 - [2] Very nice work mate, Can you post the stats for the Dreads with there respective opposite range weapons? Still think I want the Minmatar Dread though... ___________________________________________________________ Xiliath; Co-CEO Judge Dread Inc.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Vishnej on 02/07/2005 11:32:08 Wow re the Gallente dronebay - will rock the house since fully trained T2 heavys do 50% more damage than normal heavies. And they'll be able to track and destroy battleships just fine. It becomes more balanced in siege mode, but damn, Gallente will be a BS-killer. Any words on slottage for mods?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:30:00 - [4] 1000+ dps from 35 ogre IIs. momeeeeeeeeeee ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:33:00 - [5] kinda sad seeing the gallente one doing the tripple amount of Damage and beeing able to kill dozens of BS with drones No sig today
Sucram	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:34:00 - [6] And we thought that the Dominix was a portable "blob"... The Gallente dread will look awsome with 35 drones around it...
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Vishnej on 02/07/2005 11:37:34 Am I right in assuming that siege mode just reduces tracking heavily + increases damage by 5x?
Ground Beef	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:38:00 - [8] Drone Lag!! \o/ ...
CptEagle	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:40:00 - [9] That sux man, a blasterthron got more dps. :/
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:41:00 - [10] Ok, i didnt read the ship boni yet, but...The Gallente one has a dronebay that can hold 35 Heavy Drones, or can actually deploy them all aswell due to a shipbonus? /Elve
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:41:00 - [11] Originally by: CptEagle That sux man, a blasterthron got more dps. :/ This is before any offensive mods
Acwron	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Ok, i didnt read the ship boni yet, but...The Gallente one has a dronebay that can hold 35 Heavy Drones, or can actually deploy them all aswell due to a shipbonus? It can carry 40 Heavys. And deploy 35. If you are realistic 30.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:44:00 - [13] I take it it's +5 drones controlled per level?
Meehan	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:45:00 - [14] Yes, +5 drones per level
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Vishnej Originally by: CptEagle That sux man, a blasterthron got more dps. :/ This is before any offensive mods same for the blasterthron my tanked Tempest close ranges does about 400-500 DPS No sig today
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:48:00 - [16] Ok, the Gallente one has a 1000m^3 drones bay (10,000m^3 equivalent on TQ) and gets +5 drones controlled per level. As to Siege mode I can't remember the other bonuses/penaltys, other than the firepower. IIRC one of the others was a Tanking boost. Quite Impressive but you certainly need more than one to take down a Starbase (6 were being used on sisi with many dozens of Battleships in support) (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Meehan	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Vishnej Originally by: CptEagle That sux man, a blasterthron got more dps. :/ This is before any offensive mods same for the blasterthron my tanked Tempest close ranges does about 400-500 DPS However, what would you prefer taking to attack a POS? Your 400-500 DPS Tempest that will live half a minute or a Dreadnought that will actually survive the encounter?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.02 11:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Meehan Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Vishnej Originally by: CptEagle That sux man, a blasterthron got more dps. :/ This is before any offensive mods same for the blasterthron my tanked Tempest close ranges does about 400-500 DPS However, what would you prefer taking to attack a POS? Your 400-500 DPS Tempest that will live half a minute or a Dreadnought that will actually survive the encounter? the gallente Dread which will do 3x my damage No sig today
Antic	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:30:00 - [19] Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal.
dabster	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:30:00 - [20] So basicly, Minmatar 4tl, as usual? :( ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:41:00 - [21] actually the caldari one is quite effective. I spent some time on SISI orbiting them in a geddon clocking 500+ m/s, and they were still 2-volleying me. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Do you madlib this stuff? Take a look at PoS signature radiuses. Citadel torp launchers have a SPECIFIC use... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:44:00 - [23] Originally by: dabster So basicly, Minmatar 4tl, as usual? :( looks like No sig today
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:53:00 - [24] I know its going to be very characteristic of me to say this but the minmatar one DOES suck. Worst damage BY FAR, worst tanking, less mid/lows, hardest to fit as it has 4 weapons. The only thing it does better is it is like 20m/s faster than the others. Why would ANYONE choose one of those things over a Caldari, Gallente or Amarr one? Not like I can afford one anyway, but seriously, the Naglfar is crap.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.07.02 12:57:00 - [25] I wonder why they bothered to give them different cap values, when their cap/sec recharge is similar. /Elve
Xiliath	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:00:00 - [26] You definetly can't judge a weapon or ships performance simply on damage/sec without including other factors, you have to consider what damage type there weapons do... what's the base shield/armor resistance to those damage types.. what amount for those types do they do, what's the weapons tracking, fall off, and what's the weapons optimal...? for all we know the Minmatar one may do the best with them usually being able to do the most damage from far away, and don't forget Projectiles have the most diverse range of damage type they can deal, just like Missles...... ___________________________________________________________ Xiliath; Co-CEO Judge Dread Inc.
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:02:00 - [27] Edited by: Selim on 02/07/2005 13:03:00 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 02/07/2005 12:56:53 I wonder why they bothered to give them different cap values, when their cap/sec recharge is similar. EDIT: Similar being defined as 'identical'. Its the same on all t1 ships, and it isnt identical anyway. The larger capacitor also means it doesnt empty as fast. Cap/second isnt the only factor in a capacitor. Besides wtf is the point of lasers/hybrids using more cap if the capacitor is bigger anyway? Originally by: Xiliath You definetly can't judge a weapon or ships performance simply on damage/sec without including other factors, you have to consider what damage type there weapons do... what's the base shield/armor resistance to those damage types.. what amount for those types do they do, what's the weapons tracking, fall off, and what's the weapons optimal...? for all we know the Minmatar one may do the best with them usually being able to do the most damage from far away, and don't forget Projectiles have the most diverse range of damage type they can deal, just like Missles...... ___________________________________________________________ Xiliath; Co-CEO Judge Dread Inc. You mean like the Caldari one, which tanks better and does more damage while being easier to fit? BTW, the Minmatar one is not as long range as the others because projectiles have crap optimal range, and thus dont get nearly as much benefit from long-range ammo. plus the targetting range sucks.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Xiliath You definetly can't judge a weapon or ships performance simply on damage/sec without including other factors, you have to consider what damage type there weapons do... what's the base shield/armor resistance to those damage types.. what amount for those types do they do, what's the weapons tracking, fall off, and what's the weapons optimal...? for all we know the Minmatar one may do the best with them usually being able to do the most damage from far away, and don't forget Projectiles have the most diverse range of damage type they can deal, just like Missles...... ___________________________________________________________ Xiliath; Co-CEO Judge Dread Inc. Missles have better range, damage and tracking basicly the only advantage matari ships have is the fact that thy are slightly faster then other and target sligthly faster Therefore thy sacrfice the need to have the most guns fitted, doing less damage, harder to fit, more skills needed, less HP, worst tanking, worst targetting range, worst slot layout for gank/tank No sig today
Antic	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Do you madlib this stuff? Take a look at PoS signature radiuses. Citadel torp launchers have a SPECIFIC use... Maybe you should buy a clue? Dreads are anti BS aswell as anti PoS ships. XL turrets PWN battleships at their designated ranges. But then of course, you arent known for being objective.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:23:00 - [30] I hope the minnie one doesnt suketh the mosteth. But I had a look on sisi. Unless im reading it wrong it indeed does. So who's going to bother building one. its a shame, i thought we may have at least got a good damage output? - "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
Xiliath	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:42:00 - [31] Can anyone host and put up screenies of the weapons to get a better idea of how well they actually work.. I'd do it but I can't even log onto EVE. ___________________________________________________________ Xiliath; Co-CEO Judge Dread Inc.
Arud	Posted - 2005.07.02 13:53:00 - [32] and here I thought the Gallente one was supposed to be versatile and more useful against smaller targets, extremely unusual that excluding the drones (which is half of its ship bonus) it does more damage than all the other dreads extremely strange and the minnie one should be even faster... .and have longer targeting range
Vaygr	Posted - 2005.07.02 14:04:00 - [33] The gallente dread only has 1000 m3 drone space though so it cant field even 5 ogres.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.02 14:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Vaygr The gallente dread only has 1000 m3 drone space though so it cant field even 5 ogres. sigh... drones and dronebays got a 1/10 shrink, to make them more transportable. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.07.02 14:13:00 - [35] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Vaygr The gallente dread only has 1000 m3 drone space though so it cant field even 5 ogres. sigh... drones and dronebays got a 1/10 shrink, to make them more transportable. Yup 1000m3 is now 40 heavy drones. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.02 14:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Yes, they will struggle againt mwd'ing POS's
Captain Rod	Posted - 2005.07.02 14:55:00 - [37] Methinks you should remember these are supposed to be POS killing ships and bs killers not 1v1 pvp vessels though all the comments seem to be geared at that.
Antic	Posted - 2005.07.02 15:12:00 - [38] Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 15:14:13 Thats exactly the problem with the current damage scaling on the citadel missiles, the anti BS part. PoS dosnt move. BS does. as tests on SISI shows XL turrets can devastate battleships at their designated ranges. We are talking 8k damage environments. But the very same battleship taking the XL turret hits using a simple afterburner can cut all the damage of the citadel torpedoes down to 12. So the caldari dread will have very limited use compared to all the other dreads in fleet battles with its one turret slots. Remember that citadel torps, like torpedoes, dosnt get bonuses from a couple of the new missile skills. And its fleet battles that will be happening more often than the PoS assaults. oh and there isnt citadel FoF so dont give us the argument about the XL turrets being jammable.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.07.02 15:21:00 - [39] to the OP: how about giving numbers for gallente with rails? Mounting blasters on dreadnought is retarded tbh. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Zameela	Posted - 2005.07.02 15:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 15:14:13 Thats exactly the problem with the current damage scaling on the citadel missiles, the anti BS part. PoS dosnt move. BS does. as tests on SISI shows XL turrets can devastate battleships at their designated ranges. We are talking 8k damage environments. But the very same battleship taking the XL turret hits using a simple afterburner can cut all the damage of the citadel torpedoes down to 12. Reading is useful: Originally by: keepiru actually the caldari one is quite effective. I spent some time on SISI orbiting them in a geddon clocking 500+ m/s, and they were still 2-volleying me. As this post illustrates, it is likely that once you have trained the missile skills, Citadel torpedoes will wtfpwn all BS, just like XL turrets.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.07.02 15:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 15:14:13 Thats exactly the problem with the current damage scaling on the citadel missiles, the anti BS part. PoS dosnt move. BS does. as tests on SISI shows XL turrets can devastate battleships at their designated ranges. We are talking 8k damage environments. But the very same battleship taking the XL turret hits using a simple afterburner can cut all the damage of the citadel torpedoes down to 12. So the caldari dread will have very limited use compared to all the other dreads in fleet battles with its one turret slots. Remember that citadel torps, like torpedoes, dosnt get bonuses from a couple of the new missile skills. And its fleet battles that will be happening more often than the PoS assaults. oh and there isnt citadel FoF so dont give us the argument about the XL turrets being jammable. Theres at least one example of someone using an AB on a raven being completely missed by a turret dreadnought also though. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.07.02 15:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Arud and here I thought the Gallente one was supposed to be versatile and more useful against smaller targets, extremely unusual that excluding the drones (which is half of its ship bonus) it does more damage than all the other dreads extremely strange and the minnie one should be even faster... .and have longer targeting range Speeds a fine thing, but on such a big ship its no real advantage at all. - "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.07.02 16:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Ogre's=1.6x1.25x22x35/2= 770/sec How much damage does it do with T2 Oagres?? Real men, play Rugby
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.02 16:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim Steele Originally by: Gabriel Karade Ogre's=1.6x1.25x22x35/2= 770/sec How much damage does it do with T2 Oagres?? (note: t2 drone skills appear to give a 2% bonus instead of 5% as per description) (1.921.251.1022)/2 = 29.0435 = 1016.4 dps ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
DarK	Posted - 2005.07.02 16:39:00 - [45] Edited by: DarK on 02/07/2005 16:40:38 doh
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.02 17:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Antic Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Do you madlib this stuff? Take a look at PoS signature radiuses. Citadel torp launchers have a SPECIFIC use... Maybe you should buy a clue? Dreads are anti BS aswell as anti PoS ships. XL turrets PWN battleships at their designated ranges. But then of course, you arent known for being objective. No, and you're known for being a raving lunatic. We all have our burdens. ONE module can negate the effectiveness of the XL weapons against BS. 1 "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Acwron	Posted - 2005.07.02 17:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Do you madlib this stuff? Take a look at PoS signature radiuses. Citadel torp launchers have a SPECIFIC use... Maybe you should buy a clue? Dreads are anti BS aswell as anti PoS ships. XL turrets PWN battleships at their designated ranges. But then of course, you arent known for being objective. No, and you're known for being a raving lunatic. We all have our burdens. ONE module can negate the effectiveness of the XL weapons against BS. 1 Actually it doesn't work Maya. (at least on Sisi)
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.07.02 17:57:00 - [48] wow, talk about not-impressing numbers and unbalance.... why the heck does the gallente one do triple the damage of the others?
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.02 18:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Acwron Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 12:30:15 the caldari dread will be the least effective of the bunch. Due to it relying on citadel torps. Unless the rediculous example of 12 damage on an AB raven is fixed :P As torpedoes damage dosnt matter in wich range its used. Theres no optimal. Do you madlib this stuff? Take a look at PoS signature radiuses. Citadel torp launchers have a SPECIFIC use... Maybe you should buy a clue? Dreads are anti BS aswell as anti PoS ships. XL turrets PWN battleships at their designated ranges. But then of course, you arent known for being objective. No, and you're known for being a raving lunatic. We all have our burdens. ONE module can negate the effectiveness of the XL weapons against BS. 1 Actually it doesn't work Maya. (at least on Sisi) In my test it does. I suspect you're doing something different. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Karazaan	Posted - 2005.07.02 18:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 15:14:13 Thats exactly the problem with the current damage scaling on the citadel missiles, the anti BS part. PoS dosnt move. BS does. as tests on SISI shows XL turrets can devastate battleships at their designated ranges. We are talking 8k damage environments. But the very same battleship taking the XL turret hits using a simple afterburner can cut all the damage of the citadel torpedoes down to 12. So the caldari dread will have very limited use compared to all the other dreads in fleet battles with its one turret slots. Remember that citadel torps, like torpedoes, dosnt get bonuses from a couple of the new missile skills. And its fleet battles that will be happening more often than the PoS assaults. oh and there isnt citadel FoF so dont give us the argument about the XL turrets being jammable. Theres at least one example of someone using an AB on a raven being completely missed by a turret dreadnought also though. In an apoc with 2 x 1600 plates, they were'nt able to hit me at all when I was going sideways at around 120 km/s. So don't fear the uber XL turrets of doom. I received 10 voley in a row, not a single damage. But going face to them, lost all shield and half armor in one voley. It's like the Large turret on frig, no biggy. When a dread pilot say to a bunch of bs that they are going too fast, you know something is fishy. So Citadel Torp is EQUAL to XL turrets, thanks!
Jet Max	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:13:00 - [51] Originally by: Darmed Khan 2*large smartbomb 4tw No you got it wrong Projectile Drones 4tw
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Karazaan Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 15:14:13 Thats exactly the problem with the current damage scaling on the citadel missiles, the anti BS part. PoS dosnt move. BS does. as tests on SISI shows XL turrets can devastate battleships at their designated ranges. We are talking 8k damage environments. But the very same battleship taking the XL turret hits using a simple afterburner can cut all the damage of the citadel torpedoes down to 12. So the caldari dread will have very limited use compared to all the other dreads in fleet battles with its one turret slots. Remember that citadel torps, like torpedoes, dosnt get bonuses from a couple of the new missile skills. And its fleet battles that will be happening more often than the PoS assaults. oh and there isnt citadel FoF so dont give us the argument about the XL turrets being jammable. Theres at least one example of someone using an AB on a raven being completely missed by a turret dreadnought also though. In an apoc with 2 x 1600 plates, they were'nt able to hit me at all when I was going sideways at around 120 km/s. So don't fear the uber XL turrets of doom. I received 10 voley in a row, not a single damage. But going face to them, lost all shield and half armor in one voley. It's like the Large turret on frig, no biggy. When a dread pilot say to a bunch of bs that they are going too fast, you know something is fishy. So Citadel Torp is EQUAL to XL turrets, thanks! WTB, Tobias' Modified web ( 40km ) :P
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:19:00 - [53] I'm still wondering what on earth the last highslot can be filled with on the Naglfar
Darmed Khan	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:24:00 - [54] The Siege Module uses a high slot, that's why all the dreads have one spare.
StokolaN	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:35:00 - [55] 35 drones is just too many without gimping the gallente setup in some other way, like giving it crappy dps with its guns, maybe by giving it one less hardpoint or something. 35 light drones = any small ship that gets within range is toast, 35 heavy drones = any med to large ship is going to be given a run for their money even without the ship's main guns on them. _
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:43:00 - [56] I'm thinking that most dreads will have a XXX..whatever Large Smartbomb fitted, to discourage hostiles from coming too close when support isn't alaivable.. So, in the very improbable event of a 1v1 dread encounter, one activation, and every drone of the gallente one goes boom, and then the gallente dread suddenly find itself with sub-par firepower...
Jet Max	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:49:00 - [57] Originally by: Shadowsword I'm thinking that most dreads will have a XXX..whatever Large Smartbomb fitted, to discourage hostiles from coming too close when support isn't alaivable.. So, in the very improbable event of a 1v1 dread encounter, one activation, and every drone of the gallente one goes boom, and then the gallente dread suddenly find itself with sub-par firepower... Put your glasses on and read again,PROJECTILE DRONES.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.07.02 19:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Jet Max Put your glasses on and read again,PROJECTILE DRONES. What about the berserker IIs? They looked a lot like the berserker Is to me... Did I miss something?
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.07.02 20:04:00 - [59] Yep, unless there's a new kind of drones only he know about, I think he's believing that minmatar drones are snipers.
Jet Max	Posted - 2005.07.02 20:09:00 - [60] Edited by: Jet Max on 02/07/2005 20:10:23 Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Jet Max Put your glasses on and read again,PROJECTILE DRONES. What about the berserker IIs? They looked a lot like the berserker Is to me... Did I miss something? Well, it spose to be Projectile Drone Specialization Skill not whole new Projetile Drone, sorry.But by training this specialization skill i hope those drones will orbit target at larger distance, otherwise i cant see the point why should you train it? and why to specialize with any other skill at all. Or it is just to get that extra 5% damage per level?
Moadyb	Posted - 2005.07.02 20:30:00 - [61] Edited by: Moadyb on 02/07/2005 20:30:57 Another note about the mini dread; anyone else peeved at the fact that a mini dread pilot will have to have learn TWO specialization skill trees to mount his weapons? Citadel Torps skills (and relevant new skills, like the warhead upgrade) and the XL projectile skill. So not only will minis get a crapy dread, they also have to 'slave' for them much longer than other.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.07.02 20:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Jet Max Edited by: Jet Max on 02/07/2005 20:10:23 Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Jet Max Put your glasses on and read again,PROJECTILE DRONES. What about the berserker IIs? They looked a lot like the berserker Is to me... Did I miss something? Well, it spose to be Projectile Drone Specialization Skill not whole new Projetile Drone, sorry.But by training this specialization skill i hope those drones will orbit target at larger distance, otherwise i cant see the point why should you train it? and why to specialize with any other skill at all. Or it is just to get that extra 5% damage per level? Yes, it's only to get 5% damage bonus, and only for drones doing explosive damage. If you want to be able to use all 4 types of drones at the maximum, to be more versatile, you need to train the 4 skills.
Fearn	Posted - 2005.07.02 21:36:00 - [63] Originally by: Moadyb Edited by: Moadyb on 02/07/2005 20:30:57 Another note about the mini dread; anyone else peeved at the fact that a mini dread pilot will have to have learn TWO specialization skill trees to mount his weapons? Citadel Torps skills (and relevant new skills, like the warhead upgrade) and the XL projectile skill. So not only will minis get a crapy dread, they also have to 'slave' for them much longer than other. yeah.. its sad.. T_T they need to boost them alot
Antic	Posted - 2005.07.02 21:50:00 - [64] Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 21:53:47 Originally by: Karazaan So Citadel Torp is EQUAL to XL turrets, thanks! Not true. Theres an example of a turret shot missing someone? now thats a shocker. Then how do you explain the sheer amount of battleships being torn to shreds by the dreads on SISI? Even ones using speed aids. were they standing still? Not at all. When testing against XL turrets try flying in optimal mkay? When the turrets hit, it hurts, and it hurts a lot the gank way. Also theres the fact that theres modules that increases tracking wich can be stuffed on said dreads (wich werent being used in the testing as far as we know) and thus lowers the chance of a miss. Theres no module that does this for the citadel torps. Fit a painter? it will give you 20 more damage roughly whilst that XL turret shot hitting will do multiple Ks of damage. balanced? not at all. Consider also that tracking aids have no range limit whilst webs and painters do. So a garanteed three times 12 damage against a battleship per volley, or several Ks of damage for every shot that hits in a volley. What do you take? Whats more useful in a fleet fight? no brainer.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.07.02 21:59:00 - [65] Originally by: Shadowsword Yes, it's only to get 5% damage bonus, and only for drones doing explosive damage. 2% actually.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 09:13:00 - [66] Added alternative configurations (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Kashre	Posted - 2005.07.03 09:42:00 - [67] Well... I am a little dissapointed that the minmatar DN doesnt get 3 turrets rather than the 2/2 setup. Basically its like a big fat Typhoon. On the other hand, that hardly means its going to suck. It wont be as good for fleet battles as the gal/amarr DNs will since missile will still be useless for that situation, but it will be fine for killing POSes. And who the hell is going to take a DN by itself against enemy BS? Why dont you people test what kind of damage citadel torps do against webbed BS, not BS that are ABing their merry way around a DN at a 20km orbit as if no one will have any tacklers in their fleet. the thing with the Gal ship and the 30-35 drones though. Thats insanity right there. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 10:14:00 - [68] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 10:16:39 To be perfectly honest none of them are going to be that 'uber' for typical fleet battles. Compare them to typical 'gank' Battleships; The Gallente dreadnought with railguns and 7x Damage mods, using AM ammo, would do ~4.3k damage per burst and ~630/sec. Lower than a Tempest for burst, lower than a Megathron for Dps (though the increased range of the 1000mm railguns obviously means it can reach out ~2x further with its short range ammo) The design is to tank Starbase defences while pounding them. In Siege mode with 2x Capital ship Armour repairers you are repairing 1280 hp/sec. That's easily 4-5 Large Railgun Batteries with XL AM ammo. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.07.03 10:27:00 - [69] Edited by: Na''Axin on 03/07/2005 10:28:43 Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 10:16:39 To be perfectly honest none of them are going to be that 'uber' for typical fleet battles. Compare them to typical 'gank' Battleships; The Gallente dreadnought with railguns and 7x Damage mods, using AM ammo, would do ~4.3k damage per burst and ~630/sec. Lower than a Tempest for burst, lower than a Megathron for Dps (though the increased range of the 1000mm railguns obviously means it can reach out ~2x further with its short range ammo) The design is to tank Starbase defences while pounding them. In Siege mode with 2x Capital ship Armour repairers you are repairing 1280 hp/sec. That's easily 4-5 Large Railgun Batteries with XL AM ammo. yeah and with repair systems lvl 5 and capital repair systems lvl 5, those 2 repairers will also use up aprox 290 cap/sec..... which you most likely won't have btw oh and you forgot to take the 35 heavy drones into consideration on that gallente dread
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.07.03 10:40:00 - [70] Originally by: Na'Axin wow, talk about not-impressing numbers and unbalance.... why the heck does the gallente one do triple the damage of the others? Because it has 1/4th or something the range of the AMARR DN PULSE and 1/50th the range of the Matari and Caldari... Numbers extrapolated from normal turrets -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. Josameto III - Moon 1
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 10:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Na'Axin Edited by: Na''Axin on 03/07/2005 10:28:43 Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 10:16:39 To be perfectly honest none of them are going to be that 'uber' for typical fleet battles. Compare them to typical 'gank' Battleships; The Gallente dreadnought with railguns and 7x Damage mods, using AM ammo, would do ~4.3k damage per burst and ~630/sec. Lower than a Tempest for burst, lower than a Megathron for Dps (though the increased range of the 1000mm railguns obviously means it can reach out ~2x further with its short range ammo) The design is to tank Starbase defences while pounding them. In Siege mode with 2x Capital ship Armour repairers you are repairing 1280 hp/sec. That's easily 4-5 Large Railgun Batteries with XL AM ammo. yeah and with repair systems lvl 5 and capital repair systems lvl 5, those 2 repairers will also use up aprox 290 cap/sec..... which you most likely won't have btw oh and you forgot to take the 35 heavy drones into consideration on that gallente dread Shows how much you know Take the Amarr Dreadnought: Capacitor energy= 38,250x(1.25)= 47,812.5 Recharge= 2771.7x(0.75)= 2078.775 sec Peak recharge= 57.5/sec Now add 4 Cap recharger II's 851.46624 sec peak recharge= 140.4/sec Now add 6 Cap Power Relay I's 223.21 sec peak recharge= 535.5/sec The drones are irrelevent in a typical fleet Battle due to their limited range. Hence why for the 'long range' setup they were not included.. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 10:59:00 - [72] I think some people need to re-read the first post. ALL the dreadnoughts can use 10 heavy drones (10 ogres= 220 Dps max). Even the Caldari one has the equivalent of a 3000m^3 drone bay. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Lord Waxduck	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:16:00 - [73] good work dude but did you take into account that they have racial bouns awarded to range and hp ???
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:36:00 - [74] Originally by: Lord Waxduck good work dude but did you take into account that they have racial bouns awarded to range and hp ??? Erm racial bonuses to range and hp? nothing on Sisi indicates that. They get racial bonuses just like Battleships do. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Na'Axin Edited by: Na''Axin on 03/07/2005 10:28:43 Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 10:16:39 To be perfectly honest none of them are going to be that 'uber' for typical fleet battles. Compare them to typical 'gank' Battleships; The Gallente dreadnought with railguns and 7x Damage mods, using AM ammo, would do ~4.3k damage per burst and ~630/sec. Lower than a Tempest for burst, lower than a Megathron for Dps (though the increased range of the 1000mm railguns obviously means it can reach out ~2x further with its short range ammo) The design is to tank Starbase defences while pounding them. In Siege mode with 2x Capital ship Armour repairers you are repairing 1280 hp/sec. That's easily 4-5 Large Railgun Batteries with XL AM ammo. yeah and with repair systems lvl 5 and capital repair systems lvl 5, those 2 repairers will also use up aprox 290 cap/sec..... which you most likely won't have btw oh and you forgot to take the 35 heavy drones into consideration on that gallente dread Shows how much you know Take the Amarr Dreadnought: Capacitor energy= 38,250x(1.25)= 47,812.5 Recharge= 2771.7x(0.75)= 2078.775 sec Peak recharge= 57.5/sec Now add 4 Cap recharger II's 851.46624 sec peak recharge= 140.4/sec Now add 6 Cap Power Relay I's 223.21 sec peak recharge= 535.5/sec The drones are irrelevent in a typical fleet Battle due to their limited range. Hence why for the 'long range' setup they were not included.. yes, but I was talking about a tank, not a get-as-much-cap-recharge-as-you-can-and-fit-only-armor-repairers setup. So 4 cap recharger II's in med and 2 capital reps, 3 hardeners (exp, kin, thermal) in low, together with 3 cap relays.... problem is that only give a cap recharge peak of 263.21 cap/sec. You'd have to use 3 faction cap relays to reach enough recharge rate to sustain the armor repairers, namely 319.449 cap/sec. problem is you still need to power your guns, which with maxed skills, use: dual giga beam: ROF: 13.50.750.80.9= 7.29 sec CAP usage: 5200.50.75=195 cap cap/sec: 26.75 3 = 80.25 cap/sec dual giga pulse ROF: 11.810.750.80.9= 6.3774 sec CAP usage: 3200.50.75=120 cap cap/sec: 18.82 3 = 56.45 cap/sec capital armor repairer: 2400 cap use 300.750.75= 16.875 cycle time cap/sec= 142.22' * 2 = 284.44' cap/sec so with faction relays, giga pulses, 2 capital reps and 3 hardeners, you'd have a recharge rate of 319.449 cap/sec and an cap usage of 340.894 cap/sec. so your short 20 cap/sec and will need a commander cap recharger to fit the uber setup :) oh, and about the 35 drones not being useful in fleet combat... that's ofcourse BS... You are the dreadnaught pilot, and you are the one capable of yeilding 35 heavy drones... so if you can't manage to warp you dreadnaught into it's most devastating range of 45km of it's targets, then you are the one who's doing something wrong
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:26:00 - [76] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 14:26:17 Originally by: Na'Axin yes, but I was talking about a tank, not a get-as-much-cap-recharge-as-you-can-and-fit-only-armor-repairers setup. So 4 cap recharger II's in med and 2 capital reps, 3 hardeners (exp, kin, thermal) in low, together with 3 cap relays.... problem is that only give a cap recharge peak of 263.21 cap/sec. Yes except I was talking about simply running two Capital ship repairers which would tank 4-5 Railgun turrets WITHOUT hardeners... To which you went off on one about not having the cap to run it, which as I demonstrated is wrong. Originally by: Na'Axin oh, and about the 35 drones not being useful in fleet combat... that's ofcourse BS... You are the dreadnaught pilot, and you are the one capable of yeilding 35 heavy drones... so if you can't manage to warp you dreadnaught into it's most devastating range of 45km of it's targets, then you are the one who's doing something wrong Fine... for fleet combat below 45km, done nitpicking? (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:28:00 - [77] Fine... for fleet combat below 45km, done nitpicking? well if you consider 1000+ damage/sec nitpicking, fine with me
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:32:00 - [78] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/07/2005 14:36:10 Originally by: Na'Axin Fine... for fleet combat below 45km, done nitpicking? well if you consider 1000+ damage/sec nitpicking, fine with me Look most fleet battles occur at nearly double that range. The 1000mm Railgun turrets have a 60km optimal with AM X-L. I included the drone damage in the original post anyway... (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Inoxx	Posted - 2005.07.03 23:26:00 - [79] i gues amarr aint getting the luve this time =(
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.07.04 03:37:00 - [80] 35 large tech 2 drones is like equivelant to a gankageddon about... oh man... :D
Tisti	Posted - 2005.07.04 04:12:00 - [81] Add a drone control thingie if they ever come out... Meh.. Before any BS get even dent a t2 drone with smartbombs, it will be long gone
Karazaan	Posted - 2005.07.04 04:22:00 - [82] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 02/07/2005 21:53:47 Originally by: Karazaan So Citadel Torp is EQUAL to XL turrets, thanks! Not true. Theres an example of a turret shot missing someone? now thats a shocker. Then how do you explain the sheer amount of battleships being torn to shreds by the dreads on SISI? Even ones using speed aids. were they standing still? Not at all. When testing against XL turrets try flying in optimal mkay? When the turrets hit, it hurts, and it hurts a lot the gank way. Also theres the fact that theres modules that increases tracking wich can be stuffed on said dreads (wich werent being used in the testing as far as we know) and thus lowers the chance of a miss. Theres no module that does this for the citadel torps. Fit a painter? it will give you 20 more damage roughly whilst that XL turret shot hitting will do multiple Ks of damage. balanced? not at all. Consider also that tracking aids have no range limit whilst webs and painters do. So a garanteed three times 12 damage against a battleship per volley, or several Ks of damage for every shot that hits in a volley. What do you take? Whats more useful in a fleet fight? no brainer. Yet you forget that we can fit a Tracking Disrupter against any ship having turret, but not for missiles users. Sure they don't have tracking enhancer, but they cannot be tracking affected much... Anyway, I'm not sure that tracking computer are going to help dread much, what does 20%-40% more tracking when you have 0.00001 tracking speed? Now with their new speed, torps will hit bs orbitting at 20 km that the XL turret cannot possibly hope to scratch?
Tinilla	Posted - 2005.07.04 10:09:00 - [83] Originally by: Na'Axin Edited by: Na''Axin on 03/07/2005 10:28:43 oh and you forgot to take the 35 heavy drones into consideration on that gallente dread considering gal dreadnought is such a high rank skill I really doupt anyone is going to ever get up to 35 drones unless they really want to spend a good half a year training for nothing but that.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.07.04 10:14:00 - [84] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 04/07/2005 10:18:16 hmm... Perhaps it was just the lag doing crazy things, but on Sisi last night in the 14 Dreadnoughts v.s Battleship fleet battle, my Megathron got hit at 2km (while orbiting at ~150m/sec) by an Ion Siege Blaster while the dreadnought was in siege mode (i.e. Over 4K damage). Maybe it was just a really really lucky shot Edit: [ 2005.07.03 21:32:41 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:43 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I lightly hits Super Cardea , doing 59.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I barely scratches Super Cardea , causing 41.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:49 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:50 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:54 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I places an excellent hit on Super Cardea , inflicting 116.3 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I hits Super Cardea , doing 69.2 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:02 ] (combat) Super Cardea barely misses you. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:03 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:04 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I is well aimed at Super Cardea , inflicting 86.0 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:05 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:07 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I places an excellent hit on Super Cardea , inflicting 109.1 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:09 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea barely misses you. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:10 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Super Cardea hits you, doing 4828.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:12 ] (notify) Warping to BMNV-P XII [ 2005.07.03 21:33:14 ] (notify) Ship is out of control (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.07.04 10:51:00 - [85] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 04/07/2005 10:18:16 hmm... Perhaps it was just the lag doing crazy things, but on Sisi last night in the 14 Dreadnoughts v.s Battleship fleet battle, my Megathron got hit at 2km (while orbiting at ~150m/sec) by an Ion Siege Blaster while the dreadnought was in siege mode (i.e. Over 4K damage). Maybe it was just a really really lucky shot Edit: [ 2005.07.03 21:32:41 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:43 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I lightly hits Super Cardea , doing 59.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I barely scratches Super Cardea , causing 41.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:49 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:50 ] (combat) Super Cardea lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:32:54 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I places an excellent hit on Super Cardea , inflicting 116.3 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I hits Super Cardea , doing 69.2 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:02 ] (combat) Super Cardea barely misses you. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:03 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:04 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I is well aimed at Super Cardea , inflicting 86.0 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:05 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:07 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea misses you completely. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I places an excellent hit on Super Cardea , inflicting 109.1 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:09 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Super Cardea barely misses you. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:10 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Super Cardea hits you, doing 4828.7 damage. [ 2005.07.03 21:33:12 ] (notify) Warping to BMNV-P XII [ 2005.07.03 21:33:14 ] (notify) Ship is out of control Not even a wreck _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Antic	Posted - 2005.07.04 11:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Karazaan Yet you forget that we can fit a Tracking Disrupter against any ship having turret, but not for missiles users. Sure they don't have tracking enhancer, but they cannot be tracking affected much... Anyway, I'm not sure that tracking computer are going to help dread much, what does 20%-40% more tracking when you have 0.00001 tracking speed? Now with their new speed, torps will hit bs orbitting at 20 km that the XL turret cannot possibly hope to scratch? so 12 damage at 20km range to a BS is gonna matter? get real. Its actualy 12 damage at 20km 12 damage at 2km 12 damage at 100km. Range dosnt matter with missiles and if damage is that gimped then the missiles themselves dosnt matter :P Tracking disruptors are a moot point. As already mentioned there is no FoF citadel torps. Why fit tracking disruptors when you can use a jammer to disable both missile and turret dreads?

TomB	Posted - 2005.07.04 12:40:00 - [87] siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. hi im TomB

MrRookie	Posted - 2005.07.04 12:49:00 - [88] That is very interesting :D Just sit there and dish away dmg and compleetly ignoring any sort of EW _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.07.04 13:08:00 - [89] Originally by: TomB siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. Your own fitted tracking computer will still effect your dread when in sige mode?
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.04 13:08:00 - [90] Originally by: TomB siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. heavenly joy [Heterocephalus glaber]
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2005.07.04 13:16:00 - [91] those people earlier saying oh great minmitar ftl again. have you guys ever faught g? what they do with tempests makes me cry. i was on the recieving end once, not nice. as for dreads at last gallante look like they got to be top of the pile.! never happened before STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.07.04 14:58:00 - [92] Originally by: StiZum Hilidii those people earlier saying oh great minmitar ftl again. have you guys ever faught g? what they do with tempests makes me cry. i was on the recieving end once, not nice. as for dreads at last gallante look like they got to be top of the pile.! never happened before totaly agree... once in the history gallentes gets on the top... about time I say.. we were alway in the middle. About the Min. Dread... 8300 dmg by 1 shoot on a hardened BS... why you guys cry ? and it was not even an exelent hit, just a normal one... (date from the first tests runned by TomB.. someone posted a screen with the log) Anyway as I see it, the short range gus on all dreads will be a BS killers, while the long range gus will be the POS killers... I think the short range better tracking guns with enough tracking comp + painter will make a nice hit ration on even close orbiting BS's... + dont forget this is a fleet BS.. you just need 4 - 5 ceptor to webb your primary for 1 voly from you Dreads are evli bastards .. belive me...
Acwron	Posted - 2005.07.04 15:16:00 - [93] Originally by: TomB siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. So you can tracking disrupt, sensor damp them when they are not in Siege mode? This is an important issue and when I tested it on Sisi I got different results (could be that the dread went to Siege mode while I had it targeted dunno). Could you confirm this?
Karazaan	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:10:00 - [94] Originally by: Antic so 12 damage at 20km range to a BS is gonna matter? get real. Its actualy 12 damage at 20km 12 damage at 2km 12 damage at 100km. Range dosnt matter with missiles and if damage is that gimped then the missiles themselves dosnt matter :P Tracking disruptors are a moot point. As already mentioned there is no FoF citadel torps. Why fit tracking disruptors when you can use a jammer to disable both missile and turret dreads? Because they will probably be un-target-jammable with their big sensor strenght. But you are right, it does'nt really matter.
Karazaan	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:12:00 - [95] Originally by: TomB siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. So THAT is why target painters did'nt worked. I thought it was a Dev trick against me...
Fred0	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:18:00 - [96] /me shakes head in disbelief... walks out..
Nifel	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:41:00 - [97] I was under the impression they couldn't hit anything but POSes when in siege mode. Has this been changed? "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
DrakeZakharov	Posted - 2005.10.30 17:45:00 - [98] Why oh why does everyone have to put things in terms of ability to kill BS ? Just because a dread can be an UBER powerful sniper doesn't mean that its in any wise to do so against anything other than POS. Remember the investment that you have to put into a dread... not just the billions of isk , but also the time to train it up to get the DPS that was quoted. If you use one in a fleet battle, then it will more than likely get called as primary , and although it does have a hell of a tank, i won'tm survive long against a dozen or so BS. And even if the distraction of the dread going up in smoke stalls the other guys long enough for you to kill them all , 3 billion isk is equal to about twenty five tier 2 BS .... so don't get fancy ideas about them being in general usage.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.10.30 18:17:00 - [99] i very much doubt a dread would be called primary. scrambled maybe, but not called primary. this is because it does crapall damage and tanks a lot -- This Zig. For great justice!
zincol	Posted - 2005.10.30 21:56:00 - [100] Originally by: TomB siege mode makes you immune to jamming also makes you immune to any kind of boosting modules from team mates and any kind of modifiers from bastards like tracking disruptors, rsd etc. etc. etc. Erm you sure? Wonder if CVA got there dreads back then?

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