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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:46:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Andarias
How come nobody complained their ass off when nobody could carry around BS?
If I may point this out, industrials used to be unable to carry anything bigger than a frigate. People survived.
because freighters are:
A) The only way to carry a dread from wher you build it to where you're delivering it. face it, those prices mean there's going to be a few people capable of building them.
B) The only way to move them out of the 0.5 where you build them.
C) The only way to carry them around without haing to use a jumpdrive. And dont give me the "you dont have to" argument, thats bogus. Its one of their primary uses. If its not important then none should be able to do it. If it is then all should be able to.
If you need to move them out of 0.5, to sell them somewhere else, where is the buyer suposed to move?
Why not build them in 0.4 so that you don't have to move them?
They can't even move around in 0.5 space, which makes building them there senseless.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Andarias
Why would you want to move a dreadnought in a freighter? That's putting 4 billion ISK in one boat.
Dreadnoughts are only suposed to inhabit low sec space, where freighters should fear. What's the point of having a draednought in high sec space? Do you want to move your dreadnought to a high sec system so that you can be trapped there?
It's not a matter of wanting to have a dread in high sec space, it's a matter of being able to do it. As I put in my earlier post, if the only piece of cargo that is of the same magnitude as Freighters cargo hold is a Dreadnaught, what possible reason is there to limit only 2 of the 4 ships to be able to haul it? If there never was the intention to make Dreads able to fit in a Freighters hold then make them 2million m3 when repackaged.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:08:00 -
[33]
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Na'Axin
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
Because carrying dreads is not the point of the freighter, and because most cant it isnt the end of the world.
YOu wanted to carry the most cargo possible? You trained a Iteron V.
Now you want to move a dread, you train the Caldari Freighter.
Guess you guys got something to train for.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rawthorm
Originally by: Na'Axin
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
Because carrying dreads is not the point of the freighter, and because most cant it isnt the end of the world.
YOu wanted to carry the most cargo possible? You trained a Iteron V.
Now you want to move a dread, you train the Caldari Freighter.
Guess you guys got something to train for.
You've missed the point, yes an Iteron V can carry the most cargo, but all the other Indies can to varying degrees as well. With freighters and dreads its a case of can or cannot... no middle ground, being able to carry a dread is pretty much the defining ability as theres not really anything else that would require using that much cargo at once.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Na'Axin
Originally by: Pesht
Edited by: Pesht on 06/07/2005 00:09:00
Bottom line: Freighters are cargo carriers, NOT dreadnaught carriers. Therefore, if they can carry a dread or not is totally meaningless.
riiiiight.... so tell me... how will the big manufacturers in empire space get people to buy their dreads if they can't move them.
oh and last time I checked repackaged ships counted as cargo
The chance of them getting a BPO or BPC are so slim I don't think they will have to worry.
[World Domination] |
Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:02:00 -
[37]
if i remeber correctly they said a base of 100k m3 with special mods to that boost it over 100% for carrying certain things like minerals or blah. so it wasnt JUST 100km3 that it was at. and yes i want to be able to carry a dread in my minnie freigther, and i think its unfair only 2 races can (only one pretty much...). i would rather take the same amount of extra time it takes to train to the caldari one to train for a minnie one and let that have 1mil m3.
i want my minnie freigther be able to carry it, wether or not the training time is messed up.
i would like 1mil m3 achievable with lvl 4 with my minnie freigther, hell i would take lvl 5 if that was the best i could get. or a lvl 6 if there was one
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:27:00 -
[38]
u no it really is such large m3 base probably because those special 100%+ expanders would require a lot of coding which isnt needed/not worth doing/they didnt want to do it...
maybe :|
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:27:00 -
[39]
Clueless Andarias what you also don't seem to know is that up until last night (T - 1 day before the patch went live) all four Freighters with the appropriate skills had a cargohold capacity of > 1,000,000m¦.
Those of us who regularly use the Test server (Singularity) had been led to believe for weeks (or wrongly assumed) that this was how it was going to be - so a stealth last minute 'nerf' is frankly quite upsetting.
I for one was quite happy when the originally leaked /teased Freighter specifications were suggested at around 100,000m¦ of cargo space, never thinking for one minute that Capital Class ships could be transported around in packaged format, but as so many others have said the inability to carry around a particular class of cargo is hugely unfair whereas the difference between 750mil and 850mil units of minerals is wholly insignifant ...
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Clueless Andarias what you also don't seem to know is that up until last night (T - 1 day before the patch went live) all four Freighters with the appropriate skills had a cargohold capacity of > 1,000,000m¦.
Those of us who regularly use the Test server (Singularity) had been led to believe for weeks (or wrongly assumed) that this was how it was going to be - so a stealth last minute 'nerf' is frankly quite upsetting.
I for one was quite happy when the originally leaked /teased Freighter specifications were suggested at around 100,000m¦ of cargo space, never thinking for one minute that Capital Class ships could be transported around in packaged format, but as so many others have said the inability to carry around a particular class of cargo is hugely unfair whereas the difference between 750mil and 850mil units of minerals is wholly insignifant ...
I was on the test server for a week or tow, I realize that originally all of the freighters were capable of carrying them eventually. And I do agree this 'Stealth nerf' was probably uncalled for. But the Dev's must have a reason.
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:38:00 -
[42]
but carrying dreads was one of the things freigters were looked forward to.... carrying frigs in iteron vs was something that ppl just figured out and isnt exactly unjust, and now there are transport ships ;p
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:40:00 -
[43]
Quote:
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
Possibly ... although what reason would you have for wanting to do this as Ass Frigs are quite capable of flying anywhere (and prolly more quickly & safely) by themselves.
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Quote:
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
Possibly ... although what reason would you have for wanting to do this as Ass Frigs are quite capable of flying anywhere (and prolly more quickly & safely) by themselves.
Skill requs
not everyone could move them at first. getting frigs out from cheap factories to hub systems wasn't feasable as an industrial type unless you had the skills.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:58:00 -
[45]
moving one frig at a time isnt that feasible either :|
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
Those BPCs are worth their wieght in gold, you realize. Then there is the problem of moving several billion units of commons out to 0.4 Even with the pirate nerfs, nobody is going to sit in unsecure space mining for days on end for chump change, and once the regional pirates get wind that a Dread is being built in a system (which no doubt they will) they'll be caming that system down 23/7 in hope of nabbing a tasty haulers loaded with Zyd and Megacyte for the production.
It would be like building an Iowa class in Pearl Harbor c.1943: stupid.
Harry Voyager
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:08:00 -
[47]
Actually it would be like building an Iowa class at MIDWAY in 43.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:10:00 -
[48]
Either way, the ability to move a dread is a FUNDAMENTAL consideration for a freighter. Which brings us to the starting argument.
Why the fsck did they nerf them?  
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Haoleboy
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Branmuffin
Actually it would be like building an Iowa class at MIDWAY in 43.
LOL.
Ok, point of this patch is to force people into <.5. Dreads cant go into high sec, but freighters can haul them. I think the freighters shouldnt be allowed to haul dreads, and if you cant build your dread in empire...well, haul the crap to unsec space and brave the ganks. isnt the only way to do things, and now its becoming harder to profit in high sec, as it should be...why should a Capital ship be allowed to be built where no interdiction can happen. Its weak, so move out and defend yourself, or lose billions to those that are stronger than you.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:03:00 -
[50]
If the stats (Freighter and Dread) will remain as they are now, I don't see any problem with them.
Ships are meant to be different, and non-equal. Every ship that has one niche role it does better than others has justified reason to exists.
Now, if you want be able to haul various amounts of big cargoes, train Minmatar for speed. If you focusing mostly on Dreads, just go for Caldari. If you're old hauler and want to jump on Freighter quickly, go for Gallente.
Of course some folks who made choices, like training Amarr Industrial to lv5, based on _test_ values on _test_ server, might found out their bet didn't pay off. Tough luck; be more patient the next time.
Just hope the essential stats will remain some from now on, so that people can base their plans on that, without trying to outguess CCP's actions..
-Lasse
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Merrin Farthing
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:18:00 -
[51]
As for BPC's a one run copy of a freighter takes 6 weeks 10 hours
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Krans Hopeson
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Merrin Farthing
As for BPC's a one run copy of a freighter takes 6 weeks 10 hours
I guess we won't be seeing very many Freighter BPCs, then. Surely it would be more profitable to spend your lab time on something else?
ME, for instance. For capital-class ships, that'll make a huge difference.
KH
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"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:48:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Nifel on 06/07/2005 08:49:28
Why are people complaining?:| With the assorted rank on the freighter skill it would've been easier to train for caldari even before what's happened now. Oh and fyi the outpost parts are 100k m3 each so you don't NEED 1m m3.
Suck it up and start training for Caldari if you wanna shuttle around a dread in a freighter :).
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
Quaren
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:00:00 -
[54]
I would complain more about the other 2 even being able to haul dreads then the 2 that can.
First dreads can't jump into secure space. Why is that? because this is the ultimate 1.0 gatecamping, concord tanking, omgwtfexploit ship there is.
What is the point of haveing those restrictions when you can just haul it to a station in safe space and then assemble it and then use it in that system... and if you want to move just go to the station repackage and move it somewere else...
Second of all: why the **** would you want to carry it in a freighter anyway? to build in safe space? you can still build it there just make sure you build it close to a 0.4 or less system so it is within jump range.
Honestly if you can afford this ship you have more then 1 account and in the small chance you don't then you have friends that can help you with jumping.
freighters have that big cargo to be able to carry lots of bs and componants not a dread.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
It takes 6+ weeks to make a one run BPC so, no I dont see that happening very often.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:30:00 -
[56]
You basicly now have two options for freighters.
Caldari since you can easily carry a dread and the number adds upp nicely to 10 capital components or so. And can carry a dread or freighter.
Minmatar since it has speed, very good for everything else because it has speed.
The other two
Amarr? because it has more armor than the others? but does it matter? nope since if you are attacked by a fleet to take out all those hitpoints a few seconds of extra survival isnt going to matter squat. It will not save your ass.
Gallente? because you can get enough space to carry a dread... when you train the skill to lvl5? thats not very realistic.
So it also comes down to what people have now. Most people who fly indies alot already have caldari indy trained to lvl5 so a jump to a caldari freighter is a quick and easy one. What we are left with is a world with 80% caldari freighters, 10-15% minmatar freighters and the other two split for the rest. There is just no logical reason to train for either Amarr or Galllente other than roleplay reasons.
ccp, please give each race a usefull purpose
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:33:00 -
[57]
Well actually, I think Gallante will be the most prolific simply because of the Iteron V, and it wont much bother the type that trains for an Iteron V to train the Freighter skill to 5....which is too bad, because its also the ugliest.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Well actually, I think Gallante will be the most prolific simply because of the Iteron V, and it wont much bother the type that trains for an Iteron V to train the Freighter skill to 5....which is too bad, because its also the ugliest.
ahhh right... confused the iteron being caldari :P
ok then, we will have
Lots of gallante because of easy to train the skill
Lots of caldari because of the size
Few minmatar because of its speed
1-2 amarr within CVA
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:50:00 -
[59]
You're right.
They should have nerfed em all equally by making repackaged dreads larger.
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
I say no moving repackaged caital ships. Build where you want it, and do your logistics well enough to deal with their restrictions.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Krans Hopeson
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
Is everyone sure you can repackage dreads?
Just a thought.
KH
--
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
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