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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:56:00 -
[1]
2 days ago the stats on the freighter capacaity where at a point at which all four could move repackaged capital ships.... the level of freighter required was then:
amarr: lvl 3
gallente: lvl 2
caldari: lvl 1
minmatar: lvl 5
but now after deployment I noticed a reduction in the freighter capacity, resulting in the following lvl requirements to move capital ships:
amarr: never
gallente: lvl 5
caldari: lvl 4
minmatar: never ever
ok..
WHY?
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:04:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 05/07/2005 23:08:59
I think you'll find that both the Providence & Fenrir will have a Cargo Hold capacity > 1,000,000m¦ at Freighter L5
*EDIT: Unless of course the formula = Base Cargo x (1+ (Freighter Level x 0.05)) in which case ... *
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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BlueSmok
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:06:00 -
[3]
That really sucks... can't believe they did that... If you're going to go and change stuff like that why let us test it?
*Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security.
Bene Gesserit Coda |
Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:12:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: MOOstradamus
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 05/07/2005 23:08:59
*EDIT: Unless of course the formula = Base Cargo x (1+ (Freighter Level x 0.05)) in which case ... *
guess what? that's indeed the case :/
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:13:00 -
[5]
Either they should all be able to get 1 mil+ cargo or none of them should.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Ortu Konsinni
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:15:00 -
[6]
Giving all of them 1,000,000 cargo space would have been great.
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:19:00 -
[7]
Seeing that the Frieghter skill has a 10x training time, it means with few exceptions, only teh Caldari really have a "practical" 1mil m3 cargo.
Caldari finally get the best hauler:)
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:31:00 -
[8]
Minmatar freighter max speed without gang bonus 120
Amarr freighter max speed without gang bonus = 109
Gallente freighter max speed without gang bonus = 100
Caldari freighter max speed without gang bonus = 94
For carrying anything except capital ships, the amarr and the minmatar have it REALLY good. I personally know I will be training minmatar and caldari industrials up to level V just to use them.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:50:00 -
[9]
Ok, thats the pillar of stupidity, what the bloody hell were you thinking ccp?
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:59:00 -
[10]
Ummm... you know that originally they were going to have about 100,000 m3 ?
So a nerf from 800,000 to 750,000 isnt a reason to whine.
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sadist
Ummm... you know that originally they were going to have about 100,000 m3 ?
So a nerf from 800,000 to 750,000 isnt a reason to whine.
The capacity isn't the issue, it's the repackaged size of Dreads, which will fit on some but not all Freighters. I couldn't care less that the Min Freighter has the smallest cargo.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Sadist
Ummm... you know that originally they were going to have about 100,000 m3 ?
So a nerf from 800,000 to 750,000 isnt a reason to whine.
The capacity isn't the issue, it's the repackaged size of Dreads, which will fit on some but not all Freighters. I couldn't care less that the Min Freighter has the smallest cargo.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Freighters have 3 functions:
1) Carrying lots of stuff
2) Deplying Outpost Construction Platforms
3) Carrying around repackaged capital ships - only matters for dreads atm, but in the future carriers.
2 of the freighters can do all 3, 2 can only do 2.
Hence, 1/2 of frieghters are automagically gimped in respect to the other 2, much like the other 3 bombers would be in respect to the manticore if any of them were any good.
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pesht on 06/07/2005 00:09:00
The ability to carry a dread is a totally arbitrary goal people have dreamed up, there is absolutely no reason for all freighters to be able to carry a dread. Freighters are made to carry massive cargo loads, that's it, they're not this offical dread carrier everyone has made them to be.
Whining about certain freighters not being able to carry a dread is like randomly saying, "omg, caldari freighter can carry 100 frigates and minmatar can only carry 80, all freighters should be able to carry 100 frigates." Why should they all carry 100 frigates, they're not frigate carriers. "Because I want them to carry 100 frigates, and that's enough for me"
Bottom line: Freighters are cargo carriers, NOT dreadnaught carriers. Therefore, if they can carry a dread or not is totally meaningless.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:09:00 -
[14]
Then simply make repackaged Dreads take 1.5 mil m3.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:20:00 -
[15]
Well doesn't that just take the biscuit.
Who on earth is responsible for this? It's just a rediculous thing to do.
Either ALL the freighters can carry a Dread or NONE of them.
Some being able and some not is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY UNACCEPTABLE.
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Amon Evakrace
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Amon Evakrace on 06/07/2005 00:27:49
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Then simply make repackaged Dreads take 1.5 mil m3.
what are you a complete retard? then nobody could haul a dread if they wanted too? I suppose training up for a freighter that does the job only YOU want done is a bit too far fetched?
If you wanna haul dreads around (lol) then train for one that does the job, otherwise build your dread in 0.4 or whatever jesus......
just to add a bit on, while people are *****ing about the cargo hold of freighters, i wanna add in that am displeased some frigs are faster than others and lighter than others and have different amounts of hi- slots etc etc  Like i said above, get the freighter that suits your needs, dont ***** that the one you fancy cant hack the job, or we would all be flying our un nerfed crows with cruise missles again
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Pesht
Edited by: Pesht on 06/07/2005 00:09:00
Bottom line: Freighters are cargo carriers, NOT dreadnaught carriers. Therefore, if they can carry a dread or not is totally meaningless.
riiiiight.... so tell me... how will the big manufacturers in empire space get people to buy their dreads if they can't move them.
oh and last time I checked repackaged ships counted as cargo
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amon Evakrace
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Then simply make repackaged Dreads take 1.5 mil m3.
what are you a complete retard?
No
Quote:
then nobody could haul a dread if they wanted too?
Duh.
Quote:
I suppose training up for a freighter that does the job only YOU want done is a bit too far fetched?
So I should have train up Caldari *shudder* Indy 5 just to do something all Freighters should either be able to do or not do collectively?
Quote:
If you wanna haul dreads around (lol) then train for one that does the job, otherwise build your dread in 0.4 or whatever jesus......
I'll be training for the Fenrir. And Dreads are the last thing on my mind for hauling.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:34:00 -
[19]
It doesent help that the 2 that can look poo
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Amon Evakrace
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:35:00 -
[20]
lol i wont try and explain this to ya, but not all the ships are equal and the freighters sole objective isnt to haul dreads around but if thats what you wanna do, get that ship that does it  if you dont, then dont suggest something stupid like making dreads unmovable at all, cause some peeps will actually wanna move em.
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 06/07/2005 00:32:54
Amon Evakrace as Freighters do not have slots, CPU or PG and as they are all damn slow the only distinguishing characteristic of any worth is their cargohold size.
And as has been previously stated it is not the fact that they all should be able to haul Capital Ships but that realistically ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN !!
Hence the Providence & Fenrir SUCK ASS !!
May I point out the difference between the caldari freighter and the minmatar freighter is over 30%. That's like the difference between a Kestrel and a tempest.
All freighters can carry many, many battleships. Just keep whining, they'll nerf the freighters so that NONE of them can carry dreadnoughts, EVER.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amon Evakrace
lol i wont try and explain this to ya, but not all the ships are equal and the freighters sole objective isnt to haul dreads around but if thats what you wanna do, get that ship that does it if you dont, then dont suggest something stupid like making dreads unmovable at all, cause some peeps will actually wanna move em.
Then they can do it the hard way, just because you fly Caldari, your Dread shouldnt get special priviledge.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:37:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 06/07/2005 00:37:13
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 06/07/2005 00:32:54
Amon Evakrace as Freighters do not have slots, CPU or PG and as they are all damn slow the only distinguishing characteristic of any worth is their cargohold size.
And as has been previously stated it is not the fact that they all should be able to haul Capital Ships but that realistically ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN !!
Hence the Providence & Fenrir SUCK ASS !!
May I point out the difference between the caldari freighter and the minmatar freighter is over 30%. That's like the difference between a Kestrel and a tempest.
All freighters can carry many, many battleships. Just keep whining, they'll nerf the freighters so that NONE of them can carry dreadnoughts, EVER.
I already suggested that.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:38:00 -
[24]
How come nobody complained their ass off when nobody could carry around BS?
If I may point this out, industrials used to be unable to carry anything bigger than a frigate. People survived.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Amon Evakrace
what are you a complete retard? then nobody could haul a dread if they wanted too? I suppose training up for a freighter that does the job only YOU want done is a bit too far fetched?
If you wanna haul dreads around (lol) then train for one that does the job, otherwise build your dread in 0.4 or whatever jesus......
just to add a bit on, while people are *****ing about the cargo hold of freighters, i wanna add in that am displeased some frigs are faster than others and lighter than others and have different amounts of hi- slots etc etc Like i said above, get the freighter that suits your needs, dont ***** that the one you fancy cant hack the job, or we would all be flying our un nerfed crows with cruise missles again
The *reason* why people aren't happy, and I shall try to use small words here, is because:
For pretty much everything you would want to haul, the difference in cargo with numbers that high doesn't matter. Its such an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount of cargo you could hope to haul in one go. HOWEVER, with repackaged Dreadnaughts an arbitrary limit of 1million m3 has been set. You can either meet that limit or you can't, there's no oh I can do it in 2 trips, nothing.
Setting a limit in this fashion makes a mockery of having such a high amount of cargo in the first place. If you can't meet that arbitary limit, then theres no point having a cargo hold larger than say 500k m3.
This, in effect, makes the Amarr and Minmatar freighters utterly worthless as they cannot meet this limit that has been set. It is totally different to 'some frigs being a bit slower' as there isn't an arbitary limit set through the speed of a frig. It's not a case of the smaller cargo dreads not being able to do the same job, but slightly less efficiently, they cannot do the job AT ALL.
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Na'Axin
riiiiight.... so tell me... how will the big manufacturers in empire space get people to buy their dreads if they can't move them.
oh and last time I checked repackaged ships counted as cargo
I don't know, maybe they'll get off their ass and make them in low sec space like they're supposed to.
If all freighters could carry a dread, but the caldari freighter could carry a dread plus a few battleships, people would be whining about that. Stop making up arbitrary things that one ship can do over another and then using that to ***** and whine. If you want to carry a dread, get a caldari freighter. If you want to get there fast, get a minmatar, if you want to tank well, get an amarr, etc etc etc. The ability to carry a dread is not the only factor in what makes a freighter.
When we're talking about combat, if you want to fight in a fast ship, you use minmatar, if you want great armor tanking
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Amon Evakrace
what are you a complete retard? then nobody could haul a dread if they wanted too? I suppose training up for a freighter that does the job only YOU want done is a bit too far fetched?
If you wanna haul dreads around (lol) then train for one that does the job, otherwise build your dread in 0.4 or whatever jesus......
just to add a bit on, while people are *****ing about the cargo hold of freighters, i wanna add in that am displeased some frigs are faster than others and lighter than others and have different amounts of hi- slots etc etc Like i said above, get the freighter that suits your needs, dont ***** that the one you fancy cant hack the job, or we would all be flying our un nerfed crows with cruise missles again
The *reason* why people aren't happy, and I shall try to use small words here, is because:
For pretty much everything you would want to haul, the difference in cargo with numbers that high doesn't matter. Its such an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount of cargo you could hope to haul in one go. HOWEVER, with repackaged Dreadnaughts an arbitrary limit of 1million m3 has been set. You can either meet that limit or you can't, there's no oh I can do it in 2 trips, nothing.
Setting a limit in this fashion makes a mockery of having such a high amount of cargo in the first place. If you can't meet that arbitary limit, then theres no point having a cargo hold larger than say 500k m3.
This, in effect, makes the Amarr and Minmatar freighters utterly worthless as they cannot meet this limit that has been set. It is totally different to 'some frigs being a bit slower' as there isn't an arbitary limit set through the speed of a frig. It's not a case of the smaller cargo dreads not being able to do the same job, but slightly less efficiently, they cannot do the job AT ALL.
Why would you want to move a dreadnought in a freighter? That's putting 4 billion ISK in one boat.
Dreadnoughts are only suposed to inhabit low sec space, where freighters should fear. What's the point of having a draednought in high sec space? Do you want to move your dreadnought to a high sec system so that you can be trapped there?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Andarias
How come nobody complained their ass off when nobody could carry around BS?
If I may point this out, industrials used to be unable to carry anything bigger than a frigate. People survived.
because freighters are:
A) The only way to carry a dread from wher you build it to where you're delivering it. face it, those prices mean there's going to be a few people capable of building them.
B) The only way to move them out of the 0.5 where you build them.
C) The only way to carry them around without haing to use a jumpdrive. And dont give me the "you dont have to" argument, thats bogus. Its one of their primary uses. If its not important then none should be able to do it. If it is then all should be able to.
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:45:00 -
[29]
Dreadnaughts can not jump into high sec.
Therefore an Out of corp frieghter alt is the best way to move one form hotspot to hotspot in empire.
They may be rather easy to avoid, but now a corp can rather effectively FORCE people to avoid systems they are operating in in empire by using dreadnaughts.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Amon Evakrace
what are you a complete retard? then nobody could haul a dread if they wanted too? I suppose training up for a freighter that does the job only YOU want done is a bit too far fetched?
If you wanna haul dreads around (lol) then train for one that does the job, otherwise build your dread in 0.4 or whatever jesus......
just to add a bit on, while people are *****ing about the cargo hold of freighters, i wanna add in that am displeased some frigs are faster than others and lighter than others and have different amounts of hi- slots etc etc Like i said above, get the freighter that suits your needs, dont ***** that the one you fancy cant hack the job, or we would all be flying our un nerfed crows with cruise missles again
The *reason* why people aren't happy, and I shall try to use small words here, is because:
For pretty much everything you would want to haul, the difference in cargo with numbers that high doesn't matter. Its such an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount of cargo you could hope to haul in one go. HOWEVER, with repackaged Dreadnaughts an arbitrary limit of 1million m3 has been set. You can either meet that limit or you can't, there's no oh I can do it in 2 trips, nothing.
Setting a limit in this fashion makes a mockery of having such a high amount of cargo in the first place. If you can't meet that arbitary limit, then theres no point having a cargo hold larger than say 500k m3.
This, in effect, makes the Amarr and Minmatar freighters utterly worthless as they cannot meet this limit that has been set. It is totally different to 'some frigs being a bit slower' as there isn't an arbitary limit set through the speed of a frig. It's not a case of the smaller cargo dreads not being able to do the same job, but slightly less efficiently, they cannot do the job AT ALL.
Why would you want to move a dreadnought in a freighter? That's putting 4 billion ISK in one boat.
Dreadnoughts are only suposed to inhabit low sec space, where freighters should fear. What's the point of having a draednought in high sec space? Do you want to move your dreadnought to a high sec system so that you can be trapped there?
'Why' doesn't matter, as long as it's possible someone will do it, and who knows why they will. What's the point in not letting a Dread into Hi Sec, but then letting a freighter carrying one go around the limitation?
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Andarias
How come nobody complained their ass off when nobody could carry around BS?
If I may point this out, industrials used to be unable to carry anything bigger than a frigate. People survived.
because freighters are:
A) The only way to carry a dread from wher you build it to where you're delivering it. face it, those prices mean there's going to be a few people capable of building them.
B) The only way to move them out of the 0.5 where you build them.
C) The only way to carry them around without haing to use a jumpdrive. And dont give me the "you dont have to" argument, thats bogus. Its one of their primary uses. If its not important then none should be able to do it. If it is then all should be able to.
If you need to move them out of 0.5, to sell them somewhere else, where is the buyer suposed to move?
Why not build them in 0.4 so that you don't have to move them?
They can't even move around in 0.5 space, which makes building them there senseless.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Andarias
Why would you want to move a dreadnought in a freighter? That's putting 4 billion ISK in one boat.
Dreadnoughts are only suposed to inhabit low sec space, where freighters should fear. What's the point of having a draednought in high sec space? Do you want to move your dreadnought to a high sec system so that you can be trapped there?
It's not a matter of wanting to have a dread in high sec space, it's a matter of being able to do it. As I put in my earlier post, if the only piece of cargo that is of the same magnitude as Freighters cargo hold is a Dreadnaught, what possible reason is there to limit only 2 of the 4 ships to be able to haul it? If there never was the intention to make Dreads able to fit in a Freighters hold then make them 2million m3 when repackaged.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:08:00 -
[33]
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Na'Axin
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
Because carrying dreads is not the point of the freighter, and because most cant it isnt the end of the world.
YOu wanted to carry the most cargo possible? You trained a Iteron V.
Now you want to move a dread, you train the Caldari Freighter.
Guess you guys got something to train for.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rawthorm
Originally by: Na'Axin
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
Because carrying dreads is not the point of the freighter, and because most cant it isnt the end of the world.
YOu wanted to carry the most cargo possible? You trained a Iteron V.
Now you want to move a dread, you train the Caldari Freighter.
Guess you guys got something to train for.
You've missed the point, yes an Iteron V can carry the most cargo, but all the other Indies can to varying degrees as well. With freighters and dreads its a case of can or cannot... no middle ground, being able to carry a dread is pretty much the defining ability as theres not really anything else that would require using that much cargo at once.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Na'Axin
Originally by: Pesht
Edited by: Pesht on 06/07/2005 00:09:00
Bottom line: Freighters are cargo carriers, NOT dreadnaught carriers. Therefore, if they can carry a dread or not is totally meaningless.
riiiiight.... so tell me... how will the big manufacturers in empire space get people to buy their dreads if they can't move them.
oh and last time I checked repackaged ships counted as cargo
The chance of them getting a BPO or BPC are so slim I don't think they will have to worry.
[World Domination] |
Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:02:00 -
[37]
if i remeber correctly they said a base of 100k m3 with special mods to that boost it over 100% for carrying certain things like minerals or blah. so it wasnt JUST 100km3 that it was at. and yes i want to be able to carry a dread in my minnie freigther, and i think its unfair only 2 races can (only one pretty much...). i would rather take the same amount of extra time it takes to train to the caldari one to train for a minnie one and let that have 1mil m3.
i want my minnie freigther be able to carry it, wether or not the training time is messed up.
i would like 1mil m3 achievable with lvl 4 with my minnie freigther, hell i would take lvl 5 if that was the best i could get. or a lvl 6 if there was one
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:27:00 -
[38]
u no it really is such large m3 base probably because those special 100%+ expanders would require a lot of coding which isnt needed/not worth doing/they didnt want to do it...
maybe :|
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:27:00 -
[39]
Clueless Andarias what you also don't seem to know is that up until last night (T - 1 day before the patch went live) all four Freighters with the appropriate skills had a cargohold capacity of > 1,000,000m¦.
Those of us who regularly use the Test server (Singularity) had been led to believe for weeks (or wrongly assumed) that this was how it was going to be - so a stealth last minute 'nerf' is frankly quite upsetting.
I for one was quite happy when the originally leaked /teased Freighter specifications were suggested at around 100,000m¦ of cargo space, never thinking for one minute that Capital Class ships could be transported around in packaged format, but as so many others have said the inability to carry around a particular class of cargo is hugely unfair whereas the difference between 750mil and 850mil units of minerals is wholly insignifant ...
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Clueless Andarias what you also don't seem to know is that up until last night (T - 1 day before the patch went live) all four Freighters with the appropriate skills had a cargohold capacity of > 1,000,000m¦.
Those of us who regularly use the Test server (Singularity) had been led to believe for weeks (or wrongly assumed) that this was how it was going to be - so a stealth last minute 'nerf' is frankly quite upsetting.
I for one was quite happy when the originally leaked /teased Freighter specifications were suggested at around 100,000m¦ of cargo space, never thinking for one minute that Capital Class ships could be transported around in packaged format, but as so many others have said the inability to carry around a particular class of cargo is hugely unfair whereas the difference between 750mil and 850mil units of minerals is wholly insignifant ...
I was on the test server for a week or tow, I realize that originally all of the freighters were capable of carrying them eventually. And I do agree this 'Stealth nerf' was probably uncalled for. But the Dev's must have a reason.
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:38:00 -
[42]
but carrying dreads was one of the things freigters were looked forward to.... carrying frigs in iteron vs was something that ppl just figured out and isnt exactly unjust, and now there are transport ships ;p
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:40:00 -
[43]
Quote:
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
Possibly ... although what reason would you have for wanting to do this as Ass Frigs are quite capable of flying anywhere (and prolly more quickly & safely) by themselves.
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Quote:
But it was also hugely unfair when (If i'm not mistaken) Gallente Iteron V's could carry around assault frigates and badger class ships were left in the dust.
Possibly ... although what reason would you have for wanting to do this as Ass Frigs are quite capable of flying anywhere (and prolly more quickly & safely) by themselves.
Skill requs
not everyone could move them at first. getting frigs out from cheap factories to hub systems wasn't feasable as an industrial type unless you had the skills.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:58:00 -
[45]
moving one frig at a time isnt that feasible either :|
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
Those BPCs are worth their wieght in gold, you realize. Then there is the problem of moving several billion units of commons out to 0.4 Even with the pirate nerfs, nobody is going to sit in unsecure space mining for days on end for chump change, and once the regional pirates get wind that a Dread is being built in a system (which no doubt they will) they'll be caming that system down 23/7 in hope of nabbing a tasty haulers loaded with Zyd and Megacyte for the production.
It would be like building an Iowa class in Pearl Harbor c.1943: stupid.
Harry Voyager
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:08:00 -
[47]
Actually it would be like building an Iowa class at MIDWAY in 43.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:10:00 -
[48]
Either way, the ability to move a dread is a FUNDAMENTAL consideration for a freighter. Which brings us to the starting argument.
Why the fsck did they nerf them?  
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Haoleboy
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Branmuffin
Actually it would be like building an Iowa class at MIDWAY in 43.
LOL.
Ok, point of this patch is to force people into <.5. Dreads cant go into high sec, but freighters can haul them. I think the freighters shouldnt be allowed to haul dreads, and if you cant build your dread in empire...well, haul the crap to unsec space and brave the ganks. isnt the only way to do things, and now its becoming harder to profit in high sec, as it should be...why should a Capital ship be allowed to be built where no interdiction can happen. Its weak, so move out and defend yourself, or lose billions to those that are stronger than you.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:03:00 -
[50]
If the stats (Freighter and Dread) will remain as they are now, I don't see any problem with them.
Ships are meant to be different, and non-equal. Every ship that has one niche role it does better than others has justified reason to exists.
Now, if you want be able to haul various amounts of big cargoes, train Minmatar for speed. If you focusing mostly on Dreads, just go for Caldari. If you're old hauler and want to jump on Freighter quickly, go for Gallente.
Of course some folks who made choices, like training Amarr Industrial to lv5, based on _test_ values on _test_ server, might found out their bet didn't pay off. Tough luck; be more patient the next time.
Just hope the essential stats will remain some from now on, so that people can base their plans on that, without trying to outguess CCP's actions..
-Lasse
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Merrin Farthing
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:18:00 -
[51]
As for BPC's a one run copy of a freighter takes 6 weeks 10 hours
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Krans Hopeson
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Merrin Farthing
As for BPC's a one run copy of a freighter takes 6 weeks 10 hours
I guess we won't be seeing very many Freighter BPCs, then. Surely it would be more profitable to spend your lab time on something else?
ME, for instance. For capital-class ships, that'll make a huge difference.
KH
--
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:48:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Nifel on 06/07/2005 08:49:28
Why are people complaining?:| With the assorted rank on the freighter skill it would've been easier to train for caldari even before what's happened now. Oh and fyi the outpost parts are 100k m3 each so you don't NEED 1m m3.
Suck it up and start training for Caldari if you wanna shuttle around a dread in a freighter :).
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
Quaren
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:00:00 -
[54]
I would complain more about the other 2 even being able to haul dreads then the 2 that can.
First dreads can't jump into secure space. Why is that? because this is the ultimate 1.0 gatecamping, concord tanking, omgwtfexploit ship there is.
What is the point of haveing those restrictions when you can just haul it to a station in safe space and then assemble it and then use it in that system... and if you want to move just go to the station repackage and move it somewere else...
Second of all: why the **** would you want to carry it in a freighter anyway? to build in safe space? you can still build it there just make sure you build it close to a 0.4 or less system so it is within jump range.
Honestly if you can afford this ship you have more then 1 account and in the small chance you don't then you have friends that can help you with jumping.
freighters have that big cargo to be able to carry lots of bs and componants not a dread.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Andarias
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
"then build it in 0.4" yes, you are about to build it in 0.4, where there are possible gatecamps and you have to move 7 BILLION ISK worth of blueprints going there, phat chance many will do that.
BPC's, man. BPC's.
It takes 6+ weeks to make a one run BPC so, no I dont see that happening very often.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:30:00 -
[56]
You basicly now have two options for freighters.
Caldari since you can easily carry a dread and the number adds upp nicely to 10 capital components or so. And can carry a dread or freighter.
Minmatar since it has speed, very good for everything else because it has speed.
The other two
Amarr? because it has more armor than the others? but does it matter? nope since if you are attacked by a fleet to take out all those hitpoints a few seconds of extra survival isnt going to matter squat. It will not save your ass.
Gallente? because you can get enough space to carry a dread... when you train the skill to lvl5? thats not very realistic.
So it also comes down to what people have now. Most people who fly indies alot already have caldari indy trained to lvl5 so a jump to a caldari freighter is a quick and easy one. What we are left with is a world with 80% caldari freighters, 10-15% minmatar freighters and the other two split for the rest. There is just no logical reason to train for either Amarr or Galllente other than roleplay reasons.
ccp, please give each race a usefull purpose
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:33:00 -
[57]
Well actually, I think Gallante will be the most prolific simply because of the Iteron V, and it wont much bother the type that trains for an Iteron V to train the Freighter skill to 5....which is too bad, because its also the ugliest.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Well actually, I think Gallante will be the most prolific simply because of the Iteron V, and it wont much bother the type that trains for an Iteron V to train the Freighter skill to 5....which is too bad, because its also the ugliest.
ahhh right... confused the iteron being caldari :P
ok then, we will have
Lots of gallante because of easy to train the skill
Lots of caldari because of the size
Few minmatar because of its speed
1-2 amarr within CVA
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:50:00 -
[59]
You're right.
They should have nerfed em all equally by making repackaged dreads larger.
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
I say no moving repackaged caital ships. Build where you want it, and do your logistics well enough to deal with their restrictions.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Krans Hopeson
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
Is everyone sure you can repackage dreads?
Just a thought.
KH
--
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:12:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Krans Hopeson
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
Is everyone sure you can repackage dreads?
Just a thought.
KH
Well, the item description gives the "normal" and the "packaged" volume so bet is, they can.
-
Old Man Singing (Gallente modern art) |
CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:13:00 -
[62]
Edited by: CptEagle on 06/07/2005 11:13:13
Yea if you look up info on a dread you see assembled volume and repackaged volume... so would be silly if you cant repachage them.
Edit: What he ^ said...
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:36:00 -
[63]
You couldnt sell or escrow it if it wasnt repackaged, so it would have to be.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Phoenix Pryde
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:44:00 -
[64]
Sounds perfectly fine to me ...
Caldari are ... well ... superior ... :)
and we Caldari had to make good for the sudden demise of our BS, didnt we ?
XTECH t2 sales: www.ii-inc.org/xtech |
Shangri La
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Posted - 2005.07.06 12:14:00 -
[65]
In my opinion the important thing is that we dont want dreds in any +.5 system ignoring npc faction forces.
Make them impossible to assemble in +.5 in adission to not beeing able to jump into +.5 space.
If i need to hire a caldari freighter to move a unassembled 1 from building place in safe space to where i can assemble it, so be it.
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.07.06 12:18:00 -
[66]
This all sounds fine to me. The 'less usefull' freighters will be cheeper and hence more attractive because of this.
On smaller ships the price is not a consideration, as most have deep enough pockets to only care about perfomance, but with these larger expensive vessles.....
If hauling dreads is NOT your concern, and you could purchase 3 ammarian freighters for the cost of 2 caldari freighters...which would you go for?
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
SkaffenAmtiskaw
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Posted - 2005.07.06 12:35:00 -
[67]
Flag Dreadnoughts as contraband in 0.5 and above... problem solved!
______
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.07.06 13:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
You're right.
They should have nerfed em all equally by making repackaged dreads larger.
I mean, wtf is the use of retricting dread jumpage to 0.4 and lower when people will simply pack em into a freighter and truck them into their mission system anyway ?
I say no moving repackaged caital ships. Build where you want it, and do your logistics well enough to deal with their restrictions.
what he said.
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Cyperinn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:45:00 -
[69]
One of the primary reasons for having freighters is hauling capital ship components and outpost parts.. this kinda nerfed that =s |
Maxine Stirner
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:53:00 -
[70]
1) You shouldn't even be able to dock Dreads..
2) The cargo size should be a bigger concern over anchorable outpost components.
Locking Times & Evil Asteroids |
SolarKnight
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:54:00 -
[71]
Has anyone checked the dev blog recently? it says that the freighter is the only ship that can carry the construction platform for an outpost.
that is what makes them unique.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.06 18:01:00 -
[72]
not letting this drop :|
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.07 04:08:00 -
[73]
noes ;p
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TaoFade Mero
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Posted - 2005.07.07 04:27:00 -
[74]
This may have been addressed but I only read the 1st page of posts so I'll say it anyways.
I understand the surpised and disappointment at the nerf on the freighters. But why would you even want to repackage a Dreadnought and transport it in a freighter? Why would you carry something so valuable in a defenseless hitpoint heavy behemouth when you could assemble the Dread and fly that with weapons and defenses?
I don't see the thought process in the complaint other than an allowable light disappointment in the loss of some cargo space.
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2005.07.07 05:36:00 -
[75]
If noone here remembers, CCP made it a SPECIFIC point that Freighters would be able to transport CAPITAL ships!! THEY SAID IT CLEAR AS DAY!!
So CCP...WTH?!?!?
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Landaria
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Posted - 2005.07.07 08:34:00 -
[76]
I dont see how dreads is going to help with getting people to >.5 systems, as most of the small corps wont be ablet o aford a BPC and wont be able to even dream about getting enough minerals to make one.
And the people who can aford them, and make them, are already in 0.0 land, and dont need encourging...
so really there plan is crap, cause the magority of people wont be able to do it without Allince help or small corps merging into larger ones...
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.07.07 08:45:00 -
[77]
In my opinion dreadnoughts' packaged sizes should get increased to 1.5 million.
You are not supposed to carry *capital* ships like dreads in those freighters. Ridiculous.
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Chronos Chi
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:35:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Chronos Chi on 07/07/2005 09:35:13
does anyone know if its actually allowed to carry a repackaged dread in a freighter through .5 space and above. you never know it maybe deemed illegal goods by customs and either confiscated or destroyed as Concord may be deem it an act of war/invasion 
Just a thought
anyone wanna do a test might only cost you around 4+ bil isk
"Computer games donÆt affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, weÆd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitve electonic dance music..." |
Loftur sterki
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Posted - 2005.07.07 10:08:00 -
[79]
Dreads should not been able to be hauled in 1.0-0.5, system to system so plp can stripmine the system out with Gallente dread (with 35-40 drones)
Those ships were ment to be military equipment not carbear luxury hotels.
I admit it would be very concinient for mission runners to asign up for lvl4 or 5 missions and haul the dread to the system...... but is that acceptable..?
Best thing is CCP will make repacking dreads up to 1.1mill or what ever it takes to exclude these ships to be hauled. At the end its strange beeing able to haul ships so big they barly fitt into a solarsystem.
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:21:00 -
[80]
My bet is you won't be able to assemble dreadnoughts in >0.5 sec space. Having said that there is no reason to have to transport dreadnoughts anyway.
You're selling? So the buyer come picks it up from the shipyard in low sec space and jumps it back to where ever...
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Khonsu
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:47:00 -
[81]
Who the heck is going to bother with mining or missioning if they have the 4-6 billions for a dread+freighter??
And Chronos may have a point, dreads could be seen as contraband in 0.5 and stopped by the customs.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:51:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Loftur sterki
Those ships were ment to be military equipment not carbear luxury hotels.
I admit it would be very concinient for mission runners to asign up for lvl4 or 5 missions and haul the dread to the system...... but is that acceptable..?
Why shouldn't it be acceptable? It's their time, it's their isk, it's their real-life money paying for their account, why shouldn't they use a ship in any manner they see fit?
Or do you just think it's unacceptable because it offends you so?
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TheDrinker
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Deadzone
If noone here remembers, CCP made it a SPECIFIC point that Freighters would be able to transport CAPITAL ships!! THEY SAID IT CLEAR AS DAY!!
So CCP...WTH?!?!?
TRUE!!! as said many times its not the problem of carrying around a dread or not, of using it in >0.5 systems or mining with them. Guys, understand that the problem here is that 1 freighter (caldari) is twice as useful as all the others together. ALL should be able to carry a dread (at lvl 3 or 4) or NONE. I'm for the "all" option, coz it brings additional tactics and enables empire building/selling, which is otherwise impossible (you want a dread in the north, but they are produced only in the south, what will you do?? will you buy it down there and then pay for all fuel and spend 20h of time to bring it through 0.0 to the opposite side of universe??)
TheDrinker
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Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.07.07 14:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Andarias
BPC's, man. BPC's.
It's faster to build the components and entire ship with BPO than to give someone a BPC. BPC takes longer to produce than the component plus it devalues the person that buys the BPO in the first place. People that do this, imho will be leaving a bunch of isk on the table.
Not to mention you'd need research 5 as well to attempt a BPC in any reasonable amount of time.
That being said, our corp is considering becoming a sub-contractor producing capital construction components and cargo bays for freighters. We expect demand is going to outstrip supply for a LONG time.
If anyone is interested in doing business with us, please contact me in game.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2005.07.07 14:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Sadist
Ummm... you know that originally they were going to have about 100,000 m3 ?
So a nerf from 800,000 to 750,000 isnt a reason to whine.
The capacity isn't the issue, it's the repackaged size of Dreads, which will fit on some but not all Freighters. I couldn't care less that the Min Freighter has the smallest cargo.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Freighters have 3 functions:
1) Carrying lots of stuff
2) Deplying Outpost Construction Platforms
3) Carrying around repackaged capital ships - only matters for dreads atm, but in the future carriers.
2 of the freighters can do all 3, 2 can only do 2.
Hence, 1/2 of frieghters are automagically gimped in respect to the other 2, much like the other 3 bombers would be in respect to the manticore if any of them were any good.
Are these (3) Items player conceived or CCP concieved ? Cause I don't remember CCP saying Freighters were suppose to carry Capital Ships ........ Reference of Dev/CCP saying Freighters are supposed to carry Capital ships please....
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.07.07 19:06:00 -
[86]
i do think they said they could not sure though
even if they decided to change it, they didnt tell us, which is bad
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.09 11:17:00 -
[87]
Well they obviously consider this issue to be important.
Important enough to make sure no freighter can carry a dreadnought.
Stats on sisi
Charon: 785000
Obelisk: 750000
Providence: 735000
Fenrir: 720000
End of the issue it seems. 
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.09 11:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: keepiru
Well they obviously consider this issue to be important.
Important enough to make sure no freighter can carry a dreadnought.
Stats on sisi
Charon: 785000
Obelisk: 750000
Providence: 735000
Fenrir: 720000
End of the issue it seems.
uuuuuhhhhmmmm.....
I didn't do it!
/emote runs away
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true sight
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Posted - 2005.07.09 19:22:00 -
[89]
Originally by: keepiru
Ok, thats the pillar of stupidity, what the bloody hell were you thinking ccp?
Maybe they are thinking: "Wouldnt it be nice if every ship had a unique identity"
if you want them all to have the same cargo, then make every ship do the same damage with the same weapons, all go the same speed, every industrial should have the same capacity so thats fair for people that train up their race as well... then everyone iwll be happy!
--------------------------------------
True Sight
President Foiritan Emissary
--<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.09 19:23:00 -
[90]
Originally by: true sight
Originally by: keepiru
Ok, thats the pillar of stupidity, what the bloody hell were you thinking ccp?
Maybe they are thinking: "Wouldnt it be nice if every ship had a unique identity"
if you want them all to have the same cargo, then make every ship do the same damage with the same weapons, all go the same speed, every industrial should have the same capacity so thats fair for people that train up their race as well... then everyone iwll be happy!
Obviously you don't understand the difference between being able to carry a Dread and not being able to carry a Dread.
It's moot now anyway.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
true sight
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Posted - 2005.07.09 19:25:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Na'Axin
Originally by: Pesht
Edited by: Pesht on 06/07/2005 00:09:00
Bottom line: Freighters are cargo carriers, NOT dreadnaught carriers. Therefore, if they can carry a dread or not is totally meaningless.
riiiiight.... so tell me... how will the big manufacturers in empire space get people to buy their dreads if they can't move them.
oh and last time I checked repackaged ships counted as cargo
Erm, read all the patch notes and deblogs... they dont WANT "Big empire space manufactures" to build and sell dreadnaughts, they want it to be something special a big corp / alliance constructs for themselves, its not a new product to be dealt out to anyone with more ISK than sense, if you make it easy for people to transports these things around, your going to end up with a Dreadnaught Sitting in Oursulaert at a stargate OMGWTFPWNing everyones lvl4 blockadge missions.
--------------------------------------
True Sight
President Foiritan Emissary
--<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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true sight
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Posted - 2005.07.09 19:29:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Rawthorm
Originally by: Na'Axin
exactly.
what I am most interested in is not if the freighters should be able to move dreads, but why up until 2 days ago all 4 freighters (1 of which nearly impossible, which btw I already posted about then) could manage to move them and why now only 2 can, 1 of which nearly impossible btw.
Because carrying dreads is not the point of the freighter, and because most cant it isnt the end of the world.
YOu wanted to carry the most cargo possible? You trained a Iteron V.
Now you want to move a dread, you train the Caldari Freighter.
Guess you guys got something to train for.
You've missed the point, yes an Iteron V can carry the most cargo, but all the other Indies can to varying degrees as well. With freighters and dreads its a case of can or cannot... no middle ground, being able to carry a dread is pretty much the defining ability as theres not really anything else that would require using that much cargo at once.
Oh really? you seriously dont have a clue.
--------------------------------------
True Sight
President Foiritan Emissary
--<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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Moondragon Jr
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Posted - 2005.07.09 19:46:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Moondragon Jr on 09/07/2005 19:46:41
Agree with the point that it is a matter of trainig completely. The maximum you can get on Bestower for example will never be as much as on Iteron Mk V (my character can fly both). I only trained Amarr Industrial to level V because I need Impel on some occasions where Iteron Mk V or Occator do not pull it out. So yes, now you want more cargo space - train for another vessel. Why is it unfair now with Freighters if it seems to have been OK before with Industrials and Transports?
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Andarias
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Posted - 2005.07.12 20:35:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Andarias on 12/07/2005 20:40:08
Is it just me or will the minmatar freighter become the most popular?
30% more speed than the Charon with almost as much capacity.
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