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MainDrain
7th Deepari Defence Armada
118
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think the issue about taking new players into your mission is a fair one! we used to help people kill dagan, then let them join us for a couple of missions to boost their wallets and standings
Its not to much risk to bring them in |

Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sekhmet Snotra wrote:From what I can tell, the new AI is much better for some droneboats than the old one. Try using sentries instead of heavies, So far I have only noticed the elite cruisers occasionally shooting them, and they have enough hp to last quite well.
The only downside to the new AI that I see is that it is much more difficult to bring newbs into your missions, as they will be shot a lot more than they used to.
I personally don't really care about the AI change, as it doesn't really affect how rattlesnakes work...
So you're saying instead of all drones being viable, only sentry are now? Is this an improvement for you? |

Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1674
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 14:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. That sounds more like the AI needs a tweek in relation to sentries, than anything else. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
|

Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1203
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 14:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. That sounds more like the AI needs a tweek in relation to sentries, than anything else.
Nope, it's how the AI Threat Management System works, it's the fundamental core of the New AI. |

Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
55
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 15:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Respect. 
The real disappointment for me has been the lack of improvements in the drone handling interface. Someone had come up the brilliant idea with pictures of a modular type control interface just like other modules for drones.
IMHO, there is no way in the world that CCP should have changed the NPC AI without changing the drone control interface and fixing the missions to suit the new AI.
Yes, the fact that they did not do it this way puts players in the adapt or die, HTFU position that we ALL are use to and deal with daily without exception.
Having said that, it was still done poorly and should have been done better since these things were brought to CCP's attention early on in the beta process AND CCP acknowledged the problems mentioned by OP, yet decided not to address them before rolling the new AI. Certainly not the best way to have done it.
|

Whitehound
462
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 15:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:@Whitehound - Have you not noticed some of the insane EWAR against certain factions? Like 15+ ships sensor dampening you or perma jamming? Quite a few including myself have. I have noticed it and I solve it by choosing the right ship for the task. The Blockade, L4, Serpentis, is one of such missions and either do I use a Dominix with lots of drone DPS or a Megathron with blasters+MWD. Especially with the Blaster Megathron, and when you shred the NPCs at 4000m-6000m in close range, is this extremely fun. You then hardly notice the damps. It is a challenge. Inappropriate signature removed. - The Pope, BBC, CIA and CCP, but not Chuck Norris! |

Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 15:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. * Fits cloaky
You mission where, exactly? |

Ildryn
The Inf1dels
75
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 15:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Large Drones WILL die now without fail. Useless utterly.
This was not a well thought out change at all.
Are Sentries small now?
@Baron Dmitri Harkonnen Post with your main. Otherwise your experience is in question. |

Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:MainDrain wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Azitek wrote: I dunno, it sounds like you're complaining about difficulty to me.
Concerning drones, it's beyond difficulty. 100% chance of death for them. That's an issue. If you lose 100% of your drones you are doing it wrong! I will lose on average 2-3 small drones per day (that could be up to 6 hours running mission) Larger drones are more at Risk but you if you take out all the cruisers with guns and set the heavies on the BS you are generally ok. I tend to loose a few more of them per day than the smaller drones, but mainly thats due to lack of attention Obviously you have not done Level IV missions lately. Battleships alone on a field will now target and destroy your Large Drones now long before they can get back to their bay. Eliminating frigs and cruisers stops nothing. Edit: and with full attention onscreen. What a stupid, snarky thing to inject into your post. Large drones were inappropriate tools for most L4 missions before the AI change, as they take too long to move between targets, and in many missions required careful aggro management anyway as they would go for spawn triggers and pull in remote groups that were outside range for your main ship.
Now they are worse, and you're complaining instead of using a more appropriate tool?
The rules change, learn to adapt. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
612
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
Game design is not a democracy, nor should it be. Some of the best changes EVE has ever had have come with rigorous backlash from the community.
CCP does take into account player feedback. You see it every patch with them proposing changes, getting feedback based on testing on Singularity, and changing their plans. The reason so many people don't notice it is that they take into account well-reasoned arguments and intelligent dialogue, not random whining which is what most threads are.
Quote:It's like a select few of you have this opinion on what EVE PVE should be and screw everyone else who thinks otherwise. You want it to be more like PVP but if people wanted that then...wouldn't they go and just PVP? Why are you forcing these changes when all the threads on the matter say no thank you.
Game design is not a democracy. EVE's traditional PVE (missions, ratting) are ******* awful by any real standard. There are few games that have any sort of mission/quest/whatever system that's actually less interesting than what exists in EVE.
Quote:Not only that but it's broken. I mean it's doable but it's a teeth pulling experience. EWAR is out of hand and flying a drone boat is just a hassle, you basically have to babysit your drones and even then they have a tendency to pop faster that you can recall.
NPC ewar is, last I read, being looked at and has already been nerfed once. It isn't going away though, and yes, that means you might have to refit for some missions. Drones after the change are really not that bad. I fly a Gila for exploration and have literally no damage source outside of my drones and have not had any major problems. You just need to be careful about it (ie consider using faster drones, fly a ship that can stay closer to said drones).
|

Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1205
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Noriko Satomi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. * Fits cloaky You mission where, exactly?
Gulfonodi of course. Why do you ask?
*and the trap was set*
|

EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't even notice the AI change anymore, Sentry drones are the new flavor of the month.
Use t1 lights and send them to their death on frigs if you can't snipe frigs right off the bat. |

Phoehnix
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
32
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
People are whining because they are used to playing in a specific way and its a bother to them to change. Maybe CCP wants to move missions away from mind-dumbing gameplay to something more fun |

Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
756
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Phoehnix wrote:People are whining because they are used to playing in a specific way and its a bother to them to change. Maybe CCP wants to move missions away from mind-dumbing gameplay to something more fun
I agree
I'll also add that NPCs should only exist as a stepping stone to shooting PCs. Feel free to spend all day not progressing, but don't whine when the bar gets pumped up 1 notch.
--- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3365
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Newt Rondanse wrote: Large drones were inappropriate tools for most L4 missions before the AI change, as they take too long to move between targets, and in many missions required careful aggro management anyway as they would go for spawn triggers and pull in remote groups that were outside range for your main ship.
Now they are worse, and you're complaining instead of using a more appropriate tool?
The rules change, learn to adapt.
And just what is your recommendation ? America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |

Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Newt Rondanse wrote: Large drones were inappropriate tools for most L4 missions before the AI change, as they take too long to move between targets, and in many missions required careful aggro management anyway as they would go for spawn triggers and pull in remote groups that were outside range for your main ship.
Now they are worse, and you're complaining instead of using a more appropriate tool?
The rules change, learn to adapt.
And just what is your recommendation ? Turrets, missiles, sentry drones.
Pretty much anything but heavies. |

Shadowschild
Black Lance Fidelas Constans
25
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Because all I see are complaints.
Welcome to eve-o forums. |

Abrazzar
528
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Came back from a long hiatus and run my first lvl4 mission. Promtly lost a Hammerhead. Learned my lesson. Drones are no longer a fire and forget weapon but need to be observed and controlled in tactical manner. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3539
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Phoehnix wrote:People are whining because they are used to playing in a specific way and its a bother to them to change. Maybe CCP wants to move missions away from mind-dumbing gameplay to something more fun I agree I'll also add that NPCs should only exist as a stepping stone to shooting PCs. Feel free to spend all day not progressing, but don't whine when the bar gets pumped up 1 notch. NPCs exist as a source of income. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |

Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
759
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Spurty wrote:Phoehnix wrote:People are whining because they are used to playing in a specific way and its a bother to them to change. Maybe CCP wants to move missions away from mind-dumbing gameplay to something more fun I agree I'll also add that NPCs should only exist as a stepping stone to shooting PCs. Feel free to spend all day not progressing, but don't whine when the bar gets pumped up 1 notch. NPCs exist as a source of income.
CCP you have been told!
Fix it.
Remove all guns from NPCs as they are only here for income
/me knows you really believe it as well --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
394
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
They got the idea from me. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |

Bizmarhk
Mafia Redux Exodus.
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
My biggest issue is the follow :
The majority of 0.0 dwellers are making their ISK from ratting in anomalies. Anoms as you know, have several waves of rats, and have a fairly large amount of them in the higher level anoms. Pre-Retribution I used to be able to go in and either kill or spar with said ratter/anom killer in a nano ship. Post-Retribution that is no longer possible.
On every occasion, when I enter an anom and tackle the Raven/Mach/Tengu/Ishtar (whatever it is) the rats switch and ALL shoot me. So basically this carebear, is even more risk free then before because he/she has the entire anom working against me. I can't kill anything that is in an anom on my own unless I bring some kind of shield boosting / armor repping setup which in most cases is too slow to sneak through the gauntlet that is a jump bridge network ready to pounce and camp in a solo PVPer like myself.
Please revert back to the old NPC AI for the sake of PVP as well. |

Skorpynekomimi
391
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP be trollin.
Also, the mission AI is not done. They're releasing it, checking results, then tweaking a bit, etc. JUST SHUT UP AND QUIT WHINING. So many entitled carebears here insisting they be able to soloafkdroneboat lv4 missions.
HTFU and buy a gunboat. All it's affected my missions is making me switch to T1 drones and considering them expendable. |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2142
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Because all I see are complaints.
Mission runners are like miners, they have trouble adapting to change. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3286
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Because all I see are complaints. Mission runners are like miners, they have trouble adapting to change. Unlike with the gankers though, you can make the rats stupider... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bizmarhk wrote:My biggest issue is the follow :
The majority of 0.0 dwellers are making their ISK from ratting in anomalies. Anoms as you know, have several waves of rats, and have a fairly large amount of them in the higher level anoms. Pre-Retribution I used to be able to go in and either kill or spar with said ratter/anom killer in a nano ship. Post-Retribution that is no longer possible.
On every occasion, when I enter an anom and tackle the Raven/Mach/Tengu/Ishtar (whatever it is) the rats switch and ALL shoot me. So basically this carebear, is even more risk free then before because he/she has the entire anom working against me. I can't kill anything that is in an anom on my own unless I bring some kind of shield boosting / armor repping setup which in most cases is too slow to sneak through the gauntlet that is a jump bridge network ready to pounce and camp in a solo PVPer like myself.
Please revert back to the old NPC AI for the sake of PVP as well. Your former allies have turned on you?
Welcome to EvE, have a nice day :) |

Din Chao
127
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 19:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:@Spurty - I'm not complaining about difficulty. You obviously have reading comprehension issues if you think so and I personally have a friend who teaches remedial English if you're interested! PM me for details. Maybe you should talk to him about the difference between the phrases "would of" and "would have." |

Flakey Foont
226
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 20:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Maybe they got the idea FROM ALL THE OTHER THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT! |

Flakey Foont
226
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 20:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Newt Rondanse wrote: Large drones were inappropriate tools for most L4 missions before the AI change, as they take too long to move between targets, and in many missions required careful aggro management anyway as they would go for spawn triggers and pull in remote groups that were outside range for your main ship.
Now they are worse, and you're complaining instead of using a more appropriate tool?
The rules change, learn to adapt.
And just what is your recommendation ?
Adapt. |

Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
369
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 20:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
[quote=Spurty]EVE is many things.
Easy isn't one of them./quote]
Unless you are a miner....or a suicide ganker. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
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