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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Due to recent events I think it is important to bring some focus to the hardware and software making New Eden what it is today. I can remember in the past 3 years the servers were upgraded and EVE was down for a long time but it came back better than before. Maybe we need another upgrade or at least a better understanding of the daily problems CCP faces.
-The Questions-
- What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
- Is there something better out there that could be bought or built?
- If something better dose not exist what prevents CCP from buying more of what they have currently and using that to supplement the load?
- What kind of software is used to facilitate the hosting of EVE? Can it be improved upon at a core level? Does something better exist?
If these questions could be answered I think it could cause a drop in the angry threads and misinformed posters while at the same time cultivating more informed and constructive conversations on the subject. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2691
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
eve's servers are bleeding edge supercomputers afaik |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:eve's servers are bleeding edge supercomputers afaik
Yes and as great as a concept that is I still want to know specifics. I want to learn to the extent that I can make an informed statement about what I think should be done. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
66
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Instead of assuming, why not do some research on what they are using and how they are coding, then analyze it, then write a report on why they fail.
Dont assume, it makes your face look fat |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
406
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:eve's servers are bleeding edge supercomputers afaik
I too believe everything I'm told...
And something that was "cutting edge" last year, is a dinosaur now....
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kalle Demos wrote:Instead of assuming, why not do some research on what they are using and how they are coding, then analyze it, then write a report on why they fail.
Dont assume, it makes your face look fat
Well this is why I created this thread. I don't want to make assumption when I can have facts and figures. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
82
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Enjoy the reading.
Eve Online Server Model |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Novel Information but ultimately outdated. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
82
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Novel Information but ultimately outdated.
More Reading
CARBONIO
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Ai Shun
827
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:If these questions could be answered I think it could cause a drop in the angry threads and misinformed posters while at the same time cultivating more informed and constructive conversations on the subject.
CSM8 candidate without access to a basic Google search?
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=769 http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=792 (Heaps of useful information)
Yes, they are a bit older but you don't change wholescale infrastructure and design of that scale within that space of time. (Especially as it was fresh at that time) EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
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Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Xenuria wrote:Novel Information but ultimately outdated. More Reading CARBONIO Ok I just read that and I still don't have any of my questions answered.
I mean it sounds cool and like a step in the right direction but ultimately a problem still exists. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Xenuria wrote:If these questions could be answered I think it could cause a drop in the angry threads and misinformed posters while at the same time cultivating more informed and constructive conversations on the subject. CSM candidate without access to a basic Google search? http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=769http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=792 (Heaps of useful information) Yes, they are a bit older but you don't change wholescale infrastructure and design of that scale within that space of time. (Especially as it was fresh at that time)
I appreciate your enthusiasm. However those don't "explicitly" answer my questions. I am doing my best to keep up with all this but I find myself beset by a large clusters of information that all but answers what I want to know.
If the infrastructure can now use more than one CPU and there is still a problem then what is the next bottleneck? CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
263
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:-The Questions-
- What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware; TQ level up
EDIT: Already posted I see :) |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
82
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Xenuria wrote:If these questions could be answered I think it could cause a drop in the angry threads and misinformed posters while at the same time cultivating more informed and constructive conversations on the subject. CSM candidate without access to a basic Google search? http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=769http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=792 (Heaps of useful information) Yes, they are a bit older but you don't change wholescale infrastructure and design of that scale within that space of time. (Especially as it was fresh at that time) I appreciate your enthusiasm. However those don't "explicitly" answer my questions. I am doing my best to keep up with all this but I find myself beset by a large clusters of information that all but answers what I want to know. If the infrastructure can now use more than one CPU and there is still a problem then what is the next bottleneck?
The Bottleneck still lies within the Python Stackless which EVE depends on.
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Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:Xenuria wrote:-The Questions-
- What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware; TQ level upEDIT: Already posted I see :)
If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
291
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Pohbis wrote:Xenuria wrote:-The Questions-
- What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware; TQ level upEDIT: Already posted I see :) If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.
Dear lord.
This from a CSM candidate? Why do I suddenly fear for the future of EVE?
Just a quick question but: are you aware that having 1k players slugging it out in a playable fashion was something unheard of a mere couple of years ago?
Are you in fact even remotely aware of the history of the constant hardware upgrades for EVE?
And your suggestion is a simple "CCP, throw moar money on hardware cuz EVE pokemon pilots keep pushing the boundaries!!!"
Common sense. Buy some. |
Ai Shun
827
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.
Why? The infrastructure design is reasonably solid and as the other blogs in that list showed (That list you didn't bother reading, right?) there are bottlenecks other than their infrastructure.
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
263
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:[quote=Ai Shun]If the infrastructure can now use more than one CPU and there is still a problem then what is the next bottleneck? The bottleneck is that one system, or a group of systems, can only use one CPU.
They can not use multiple CPUs. So while you can spread different systems on multiple CPUs, the max one system can ever get, is one CPU.
Since CPUs have reached a wall in terms clockspeeds and are instead increasing the amount of cores, it is becoming increasingly difficult to actually upgrade the amount of CPU cycles a single system can have access to. |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Xenuria wrote:Pohbis wrote:Xenuria wrote:-The Questions-
- What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware; TQ level upEDIT: Already posted I see :) If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded. Dear lord. This from a CSM candidate? Why do I suddenly fear for the future of EVE? Just a quick question but: are you aware that having 1k players slugging it out in a playable fashion was something unheard of a mere couple of years ago? Are you in fact even remotely aware of the history of the constant hardware upgrades for EVE? And your suggestion is a simple "CCP, throw moar money on hardware cuz EVE pokemon pilots keep pushing the boundaries!!!" Common sense. Buy some.
So let me get this straight, your argument is that I am a bad CSM candidate because I am trying to better understand eve? You also seem to be making the case that the infrastructure is good enough and should not be improved upon.
CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
131
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Another thread where Xenuria admits to be thoroughly uninformed and crowdsources research for another failed csm bid. Hi Xenuria, get out. |
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Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
700
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:Xenuria wrote:[quote=Ai Shun]If the infrastructure can now use more than one CPU and there is still a problem then what is the next bottleneck? The bottleneck is that one system, or a group of systems, can only use one CPU. They can not use multiple CPUs. So while you can spread different systems on multiple CPUs, the max one system can ever get, is one CPU. Since CPUs have reached a wall in terms clockspeeds and are instead increasing the amount of cores, it is becoming increasingly difficult to actually upgrade the amount of CPU cycles a single system can have access to.
I may be mistaken but the dev blog I read indicated that more than one CPU can now be used. Meaning the CPU isn't the bottleneck because you could just group a bunch of them together to supplement a system. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Ai Shun
829
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:So let me get this straight, your argument is that I am a bad CSM candidate because I am trying to better understand eve? You also seem to be making the case that the infrastructure is good enough and should not be improved upon.
From my perspective?
I would expect a CSM candidate to be informed enough to answer these questions for themselves. To potentially even read the information presented to them, assimilate the information and comprehend that so that I could be comfortable in knowing they would represent me intelligently and with solid knowledge backing them up; that they would be able to research and find answers and help guide this game forwards.
Otherwise, what value does a member of the CSM add when somebody else does everything for them?
You have been given a fair bit of information to read and you've basically glossed over it because nobody provided you with a simple, three word summary.
The information already presented to you multiple times says quite plainly - the problem is not hardware; it is software and they are working on it. But it is a fair part of the core of a massive system and there is a large volume of work that needs to be both well designed and tested before just changing a line of code. And over time they make more and more improvements :) EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
263
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded. I think the max for current server solutions from IBM is 3.6Ghz, not counting the super-awesome-only-used-on-wallstreet kinda stuff.
The current ones on TQ are 3.3Ghz. I'd rather not have CCP upgrade the entire cluster for a mere 300Mhz increase.
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Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
253
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
You aren't asking anything CCP don't already ask at every capacity planning meeting they have. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think CCP should focus on rebuilding the whole game from the ground up. Scrap all the existing code, just reuse the art assets, and then completely recode the game. If this game is to last another ten years then its the only way. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
263
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I may be mistaken but the dev blog I read indicated that more than one CPU can now be used. Meaning the CPU isn't the bottleneck because you could just group a bunch of them together to supplement a system. Do you have a link?
They can off-load things like chat and characters to a different CPU. But Destiny, the physics engine, can only run on one CPU.
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Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
710
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Xenuria wrote:So let me get this straight, your argument is that I am a bad CSM candidate because I am trying to better understand eve? You also seem to be making the case that the infrastructure is good enough and should not be improved upon. From my perspective? I would expect a CSM candidate to be informed enough to answer these questions for themselves. To potentially even read the information presented to them, assimilate the information and comprehend that so that I could be comfortable in knowing they would represent me intelligently and with solid knowledge backing them up; that they would be able to research and find answers and help guide this game forwards. Otherwise, what value does a member of the CSM add when somebody else does everything for them? You have been given a fair bit of information to read and you've basically glossed over it because nobody provided you with a simple, three word summary. The information already presented to you multiple times says quite plainly - the problem is not hardware; it is software and they are working on it. But it is a fair part of the core of a massive system and there is a large volume of work that needs to be both well designed and tested before just changing a line of code. And over time they make more and more improvements :)
I realize you probably think you are making a valid point or presenting a meaningful argument but in reality all you are doing is discouraging learning. When you personally target and attack me for being a bad candidate for not knowing something and in the SAME POST criticize me for asking for help in understanding or learning said thing you come across as a huge hypocrite. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3584
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I realize you probably think you are making a valid point or presenting a meaningful argument but in reality all you are doing is discouraging learning. When you personally target and attack me for being a bad candidate for not knowing something and in the SAME POST criticize me for asking for help in understanding or learning said thing you come across as a huge hypocrite. Uh no, he's criticizing you for being unable to gather and summarize information yourself and instead asking others to do the hard work for you. Rightly so. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Ai Shun
830
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 00:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I realize you probably think you are making a valid point or presenting a meaningful argument but in reality all you are doing is discouraging learning. When you personally target and attack me for being a bad candidate for not knowing something and in the SAME POST criticize me for asking for help in understanding or learning said thing you come across as a huge hypocrite.
There is a vast difference between:
"I have found X, y and Z. When comparing that against A, B and C I have come to the conclusion that F and G are likely and H is extremely unlikely. I want to go to CCP to find more information, but thought I'd ask here first before I present something that may be incorrect"
and
"System is messed up. Tell me what it is so I can tell you how to fix it. No, that's not right. No, that's not right either. No, that's not right either. No, you're not answering my question"
It is not a personal attack when I tell you what I prefer in a candidate and that you don't meet those requirements for me. EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
710
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xenuria wrote:I realize you probably think you are making a valid point or presenting a meaningful argument but in reality all you are doing is discouraging learning. When you personally target and attack me for being a bad candidate for not knowing something and in the SAME POST criticize me for asking for help in understanding or learning said thing you come across as a huge hypocrite. Uh no, he's criticizing you for being unable to gather and summarize information yourself and instead asking others to do the hard work for you. Rightly so.
Seriously man you are not helping. You are feeding and encouraging this kind of behavior by agreeing with it or stating you support it. If you honestly consider linking something in a post as "Hard Work" then I don't think I have the ability to reason with you. CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
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