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Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:39:00 - [31] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 01/08/2005 16:17:39 Heavy Pulses and Heavy Beams are very nice guns, but it's a shame everyone uses them to the exclusion of the smaller medium lasers. If you are clever about it, you can fit a Zealot that will beat the Deimos at it's own game(i.e. in a knife fight at close range). Ladies and Gentlemen, in keeping with the current craze for oversized plates and smaller guns, I give you the Platalot. Here are two variants that I'm particularly fond of: -------------------------- MWD Version 4xQuad Light Beam 1xMedium Nos MWD 20k Scram Web 1x1600mm 1xMed Rep 1xThermal Hardener 4xHeat Sink -------------------------- AB Version 4xFocused Medium Pulse 1xMedium Nos + Same as above in mids and lows, but with an AB instead of a MWD. -------------------------- I've left out the exact modules you need to make this fit. It wouldn't be any fun otherwise Both setups will give you 6k armour and between 300-350 DPS. I feel a lot happier flying my Zealot like this, as the Heavy Pulse setups always leave you vulnerable to a Deimos or a Platerax landing on top of you. This setup has nothing to fear in that situation. I've found this a much nicer ship for solo operations than the Heavy Pulse and Heavy Beam setups. I use something similar. --- 3x Heavy Pulse II 1x Focused Medium Pulse II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tungsten 5x HS2 1x Thermal hardner Stats: 6200 armor with 60/80/62.5/67.5 resists outputting 475 DPS This one is decent as well but i don't prefer it... --- 4x Quad Light Beam II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tung (10%) 1600mm nanofiber (5%) 4x HS 2 1x RCU II Stats: 9500 armor with 60/80/62.5/35 resists outputting 375DPS Always wear your web if flying alone kids, stay in school, don't do crash no armor rep ftw ?
Hanns	Posted - 2005.08.02 17:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Kin Hanyerec no armor rep ftw ? Well 5 fly around in huge blobs so who needs an armor rep when theres nobody to fight? j/k tbh if your in a 1v1 an armor rep dosent really come into the equasion, its all about your hitpoints and how much damage you can dish out, and if your in a group situation 10k armor should be enough to give i time to warp out if needbe. I however like having a armor rep on, since we go out into 0.0 for long runs, and not having one isnt practical.
Born Warrior	Posted - 2005.08.02 17:34:00 - [33] any1 been in situation with zealot v vagabond. Seems to me the vagabond would win with its high em resistance however some people say zealot could win but i don't see how with the vagabond's high resistance to em damage.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.05 10:21:00 - [34] Edited by: Eyeshadow on 05/08/2005 10:23:27 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 01/08/2005 16:17:39 Heavy Pulses and Heavy Beams are very nice guns, but it's a shame everyone uses them to the exclusion of the smaller medium lasers. If you are clever about it, you can fit a Zealot that will beat the Deimos at it's own game(i.e. in a knife fight at close range). Ladies and Gentlemen, in keeping with the current craze for oversized plates and smaller guns, I give you the Platalot. Here are two variants that I'm particularly fond of: -------------------------- MWD Version 4xQuad Light Beam 1xMedium Nos MWD 20k Scram Web 1x1600mm 1xMed Rep 1xThermal Hardener 4xHeat Sink -------------------------- AB Version 4xFocused Medium Pulse 1xMedium Nos + Same as above in mids and lows, but with an AB instead of a MWD. -------------------------- I've left out the exact modules you need to make this fit. It wouldn't be any fun otherwise Both setups will give you 6k armour and between 300-350 DPS. I feel a lot happier flying my Zealot like this, as the Heavy Pulse setups always leave you vulnerable to a Deimos or a Platerax landing on top of you. This setup has nothing to fear in that situation. I've found this a much nicer ship for solo operations than the Heavy Pulse and Heavy Beam setups. I use something similar. --- 3x Heavy Pulse II 1x Focused Medium Pulse II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tungsten 5x HS2 1x Thermal hardner Stats: 6200 armor with 60/80/62.5/67.5 resists outputting 475 DPS This one is decent as well but i don't prefer it... --- 4x Quad Light Beam II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tung (10%) 1600mm nanofiber (5%) 4x HS 2 1x RCU II Stats: 9500 armor with 60/80/62.5/35 resists outputting 375DPS Always wear your web if flying alone kids, stay in school, don't do crash ok this has gone far enough. Having read this it is clear to me that the zealot is in need of a bit of a nerf. Being able to fit 2x1600 plates plus a rack of medium guns using 1 RCU is herendously screwed up. The fact u can fit 1600 plate, along with MWD, nos + medium guns to a zealot without any grid modules is just plain crap. Try fitting a 1600 plate to a deimos and getting a rack of electrons on, not to mention the MWD, rep + nos yet the zealot can do it easily. Thats before you take into account its 40m/s better BASE speed, which is also teh ghey. I agree it should be faster than the deimos, but not by such a large margin. Being able to fit 2 1600 plates and still put out over 300 dps just screams nerf to me. If you fit a 1600 plate to a deimos ud be lucky to get 300 dps, not to mention the speed is atrocious. Something needs to be done to plates (1600 need tougher fitting reqs to make the 800s a cruiser item) and maybe even to the zealot cos its just rediculously easy to fit everything you want on it. Sorry to cry nerf, but i think this situation warrants it Forums: Sharks * MC
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.05 10:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Eyeshadow Edited by: Eyeshadow on 05/08/2005 10:23:27 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 01/08/2005 16:17:39 Heavy Pulses and Heavy Beams are very nice guns, but it's a shame everyone uses them to the exclusion of the smaller medium lasers. If you are clever about it, you can fit a Zealot that will beat the Deimos at it's own game(i.e. in a knife fight at close range). Ladies and Gentlemen, in keeping with the current craze for oversized plates and smaller guns, I give you the Platalot. Here are two variants that I'm particularly fond of: -------------------------- MWD Version 4xQuad Light Beam 1xMedium Nos MWD 20k Scram Web 1x1600mm 1xMed Rep 1xThermal Hardener 4xHeat Sink -------------------------- AB Version 4xFocused Medium Pulse 1xMedium Nos + Same as above in mids and lows, but with an AB instead of a MWD. -------------------------- I've left out the exact modules you need to make this fit. It wouldn't be any fun otherwise Both setups will give you 6k armour and between 300-350 DPS. I feel a lot happier flying my Zealot like this, as the Heavy Pulse setups always leave you vulnerable to a Deimos or a Platerax landing on top of you. This setup has nothing to fear in that situation. I've found this a much nicer ship for solo operations than the Heavy Pulse and Heavy Beam setups. I use something similar. --- 3x Heavy Pulse II 1x Focused Medium Pulse II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tungsten 5x HS2 1x Thermal hardner Stats: 6200 armor with 60/80/62.5/67.5 resists outputting 475 DPS This one is decent as well but i don't prefer it... --- 4x Quad Light Beam II -- 10mn AB II Web Disruptor - 1600mm rolled tung (10%) 1600mm nanofiber (5%) 4x HS 2 1x RCU II Stats: 9500 armor with 60/80/62.5/35 resists outputting 375DPS Always wear your web if flying alone kids, stay in school, don't do crash ok this has gone far enough. Having read this it is clear to me that the zealot is in need of a bit of a nerf. Being able to fit 2x1600 plates plus a rack of medium guns using 1 RCU is herendously screwed up. The fact u can fit 1600 plate, along with MWD, nos + medium guns to a zealot without any grid modules is just plain crap. Try fitting a 1600 plate to a deimos and getting a rack of electrons on, not to mention the MWD, rep + nos yet the zealot can do it easily. Thats before you take into account its 40m/s better BASE speed, which is also teh ghey. I agree it should be faster than the deimos, but not by such a large margin. Being able to fit 2 1600 plates and still put out over 300 dps just screams nerf to me. If you fit a 1600 plate to a deimos ud be lucky to get 300 dps, not to mention the speed is atrocious. Something needs to be done to plates (1600 need tougher fitting reqs to make the 800s a cruiser item) and maybe even to the zealot cos its just rediculously easy to fit everything you want on it. Sorry to cry nerf, but i think this situation warrants it have to agree... take 200PG from zealot..
Hesprax	Posted - 2005.08.05 11:03:00 - [36] Edited by: Hesprax on 05/08/2005 11:03:34 Originally by: W0lverine have to agree... take 200PG from zealot.. If you did that then you wouldn't be able to fit a standard setup with heavy beam IIs. I'm more in favour of increasing the fitting requirments of the plates rather than chopping down the Zealots grid if anything.
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.08.05 11:12:00 - [37] Ive found that a web is very important on a zealot: for frigs and for all close range ships. BBQ deimos anybody? Using a 90% web ive personally friend 2 deimos before they got me into 70% armour because they just cant get close enough without killing their cap and making themselves the size of a station. ------------------ Take from the rich and give to me
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:23:00 - [38] Quote: I think it's more a case of the Deimos being a tiny bit underpowered. You can set up a Vaga with plate + ACs and beat the Deimos at it's own game in a similar way. A small reduction in medium Blaster fitting would bring the Deimos back in line IMO Yes please!!! damm i want that bad!! I could then stick 7 heavy ion blaster II's on my brutix instead of a mix of heavy ion II's and heavy electron II's
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:24:00 - [39] Originally by: Eyeshadow ok this has gone far enough. Having read this it is clear to me that the zealot is in need of a bit of a nerf. Being able to fit 2x1600 plates plus a rack of medium guns using 1 RCU is herendously screwed up. The fact u can fit 1600 plate, along with MWD, nos + medium guns to a zealot without any grid modules is just plain crap. Try fitting a 1600 plate to a deimos and getting a rack of electrons on, not to mention the MWD, rep + nos yet the zealot can do it easily. Thats before you take into account its 40m/s better BASE speed, which is also teh ghey. I agree it should be faster than the deimos, but not by such a large margin. Being able to fit 2 1600 plates and still put out over 300 dps just screams nerf to me. If you fit a 1600 plate to a deimos ud be lucky to get 300 dps, not to mention the speed is atrocious. Something needs to be done to plates (1600 need tougher fitting reqs to make the 800s a cruiser item) and maybe even to the zealot cos its just rediculously easy to fit everything you want on it. Sorry to cry nerf, but i think this situation warrants it How many 1600mm plates can you fit on your Ishtar while still doing 400DPS eyebrow? ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:29:00 - [40] ohh and as for plates.. CCP please double the fitting requirements of 400, 800 and 1600 mm plates, but also double the hp they give you. That should screw up oversized plates but still keep em usefull for the ships they were intended for.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:31:00 - [41] aye can fit a 1600 plate on my ishtar, leaves me with 375 grid. Just about enough to fit a mwd and a rep. without any RCUs i cant fit anything in my highs, with 1 RCU, i could possible squeeze 3 frig guns and a small nos or 2. maybe 1 medium Ishtar does 420 DPS with 15 tech2 heavy drones which are not only damn expensive, take a damn long time to train for. Not to mention how easy they are to blow or up or leave behind. Sorry, Jules, that means nothing at all. The ishtar wins cos of its versatility, not its dmg. It will never out dmg the likes of a deimos or zealot, but then it can do more so its not so important. A typical ishtar setup will push 350dps (13/14 tech1 heavy drones) and thats a standard setup. Stick a 1600 or even 800 plate on an ishtar and its screwed. The only thing that makes is good is lots of nos and lots of drones. Fitting a 1600 plate means no nos at all, cept maybe small and their pretty crap. And anywayz, this isnt about the ishtar its about the zealot and its ease of fitting just about everything you could want on it and still doing tons of DPS. No other HAC i can think of can do that Forums: Sharks * MC
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.08.05 12:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Eyeshadow aye can fit a 1600 plate on my ishtar, leaves me with 375 grid. Just about enough to fit a mwd and a rep. without any RCUs i cant fit anything in my highs, with 1 RCU, i could possible squeeze 3 frig guns and a small nos or 2. maybe 1 medium Ishtar does 420 DPS with 15 tech2 heavy drones which are not only damn expensive, take a damn long time to train for. Not to mention how easy they are to blow or up or leave behind. Sorry, Jules, that means nothing at all. The ishtar wins cos of its versatility, not its dmg. It will never out dmg the likes of a deimos or zealot, but then it can do more so its not so important. A typical ishtar setup will push 350dps (13/14 tech1 heavy drones) and thats a standard setup. Stick a 1600 or even 800 plate on an ishtar and its screwed. The only thing that makes is good is lots of nos and lots of drones. Fitting a 1600 plate means no nos at all, cept maybe small and their pretty crap. And anywayz, this isnt about the ishtar its about the zealot and its ease of fitting just about everything you could want on it and still doing tons of DPS. No other HAC i can think of can do that Why not fit more RCUs? It's not like you need the lows for damage mods... By my reckoning (rough admittedly), you should be able to fit 1600mm + Rep + AB + 2 Med Nos and still have enough grid left over for a rack of small guns. You'll have a similar tank to a 1600mm Zealot, similar damage, more cap/second drained, and 4 mids to stick EW in. Looks fine to me :P ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:13:00 - [43] Originally by: lythos miralbar ohh and as for plates.. CCP please double the fitting requirements of 400, 800 and 1600 mm plates, but also double the hp they give you. That should screw up oversized plates but still keep em usefull for the ships they were intended for. Erm... doubling the hp and fitting reqs of an 800mm plate would leave you a module even more overpowered than the current 1600mm. It would take 100MW less to fit, and only have about 10% less armour. ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:28:00 - [44] Originally by: Julien Derida Why not fit more RCUs? It's not like you need the lows for damage mods... By my reckoning (rough admittedly), you should be able to fit 1600mm + Rep + AB + 2 Med Nos and still have enough grid left over for a rack of small guns. You'll have a similar tank to a 1600mm Zealot, similar damage, more cap/second drained, and 4 mids to stick EW in. Looks fine to me :P would probably need 2 or even 3 RCU2s to get all that on. That would leave you with a gaping whole in ya tank (10% explosive) and next to no CPU to fit any of that uber EW stuff u are suggesting Seriously, u can not fit a 1600 plate on an ishtar and get a workable setup aswell. Its just not possible. But a zealot can fit TWO 1600 and still fit medium guns. Please dont try and tell me thats in some way fair Jules (just cos u only got ur zealot a few days ago ) Forums: Sharks * MC
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:31:00 - [45] Quote: Erm... doubling the hp and fitting reqs of an 800mm plate would leave you a module even more overpowered than the current 1600mm. It would take 100MW less to fit, and only have about 10% less armour. hmm good point... tripple them then
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:46:00 - [46] Julien as good as the Ishtar is. You fail to see that it is one tough bich to fit.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Hanns Heres one of my Zealot PVP Setups for Small assault groups, this setup isnt really meant to do much tanking, more support for a Sac or other Tank / Fast locker. High: 4x Heavy Pulse II 1x Medium diminishin NOS Med: 1x 10Mn AB II 1x F-90 Sensor booster 1x 20k+ Warp scrambler (i use dread 24km) OR 90% Fleeting Webber Low: 1x Medium Armor Rep II 1x N-Type Thermic Hardener 1x Local CPR 4x Heatsink II Edit this Setup as you see fit, for your modules and skills Pretty new to using zealots myself, how does it's cap hold up when attacking a well tanked enemy?
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:57:00 - [48] Cap holds just fine with 4 guns going. You get great bonuses for medium gun cap use. Its got a decent cap recharge as well (if not great cap). Nosses will hurt you if you are having to tank it and shoot.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.08.05 14:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Stormfront Julien as good as the Ishtar is. You fail to see that it is one tough bich to fit. I realise it's hard to fit if you take a standard approach. I'm just baiting eyeshadow . ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.05 15:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Hesprax Edited by: Hesprax on 05/08/2005 11:03:34 Originally by: W0lverine have to agree... take 200PG from zealot.. If you did that then you wouldn't be able to fit a standard setup with heavy beam IIs. I'm more in favour of increasing the fitting requirments of the plates rather than chopping down the Zealots grid if anything. well I want to be able to fit neutrons on deimos without RCU's, or 250mm rails
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.08.05 15:23:00 - [51] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 05/08/2005 15:24:56 Fine, give up your entire drone bay and one of your turrets, and you can mount all neutrons or 250mms. See, that's the reason why the Zealot has no difficulty with grid - it's a little lacking in other departments.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.05 15:35:00 - [52] Edited by: Eyeshadow on 05/08/2005 15:35:17 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 05/08/2005 15:24:56 Fine, give up your entire drone bay and one of your turrets, and you can mount all neutrons or 250mms. See, that's the reason why the Zealot has no difficulty with grid - it's a little lacking in other departments. but you have to admit that being able to fit medium guns + 1600 plate + mwd + NOS without needing 1 grid module is a little bit out of whack aswell as being able to fit 2x1600 plates and medium guns. I agree, in a stock fitting the zealot lacks certain things the deimos has, and vice versa (w00t for ships being different) but imo, its a tad out of whack with the way plates are I still think plates are the route of all evil now but thats not really the zealots fault. I think 1600 plates and 400 plates should have their grid doubled and the zealot should be made 20m/s slower. No reason for it to be so fast Forums: Sharks * MC
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.05 15:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 05/08/2005 15:24:56 Fine, give up your entire drone bay and one of your turrets, and you can mount all neutrons or 250mms. See, that's the reason why the Zealot has no difficulty with grid - it's a little lacking in other departments. zealot do more damage with 4 turrets. and at longer range..and can tank....and unlimited ammo and instant range change
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:19:00 - [54] For 40 days training only to fly that ship I think the option to be able survive as BS isn't bad. BS training take less time. Long lasting battles is the future. That's CCP view and target. Not 10 hours camping 1 minute fight. The modules are fine as they are now. And the ship too. Deimos is fricking ship. All BS scatter on sight the same all the frigs. Ofc you are talking on your point of view. Frig Merc fleets are bit fragile against few HACs. If they raise the reqs for the platings a lot of BS out there will not be able to tank properly, other cruisers are doomed, and a lot of AF who use 400mm will not be able to do it. (Know they give up damage to fit it on).
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:38:00 - [55] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 05/08/2005 16:38:59 Stop calling for nerfs of ships you don't fly. Without experience in flying them you have no clue of their weaknesses, and thus have no authority in demanding changes. That's all.
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:43:00 - [56] The best statement the last months. SIGNED
Ice Foxy	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:15:00 - [57] One option would be to let the plates (and shield extenders) have a slight mass increase, similar to the oversised AB fix. I mean if i tried to fit BS plating to a cruiser wouldnt it be serverly nerfed in speed and agility.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.08.05 18:27:00 - [58] Originally by: W0lverine Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 05/08/2005 18:22:42 Originally by: Eyeshadow would probably need 2 or even 3 RCU2s to get all that on. That would leave you with a gaping whole in ya tank (10% explosive) and next to no CPU to fit any of that uber EW stuff u are suggesting Dual Plate Zealot has a gaping a thermal gaping hole which is a lot worse then an explosive one. Your drones have frigate tracking and do more damage then a Zealots 4 turrets slots + 4 low slots and take no CPU/PG/---/--/- slots. Not to mention those 5 juicy mid slots that could easily turn off turret ships in a heart beat. Oh but wait, the Zealot has 7 lows, 4 of which we have to use to match the damage of your drones. It's the Zealot thats overpowered right (argh im gonna hurl) you can kill drones, you can forget them in rush, they are stupid and slow You can kill turrets via tracking disruption and you don't even have to do it one by one. Forget them in a rush? Please don't blame drones for your own idiocy. Next? ________________________________________________________
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.05 18:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: W0lverine Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 05/08/2005 18:22:42 Originally by: Eyeshadow would probably need 2 or even 3 RCU2s to get all that on. That would leave you with a gaping whole in ya tank (10% explosive) and next to no CPU to fit any of that uber EW stuff u are suggesting Dual Plate Zealot has a gaping a thermal gaping hole which is a lot worse then an explosive one. Your drones have frigate tracking and do more damage then a Zealots 4 turrets slots + 4 low slots and take no CPU/PG/---/--/- slots. Not to mention those 5 juicy mid slots that could easily turn off turret ships in a heart beat. Oh but wait, the Zealot has 7 lows, 4 of which we have to use to match the damage of your drones. It's the Zealot thats overpowered right (argh im gonna hurl) you can kill drones, you can forget them in rush, they are stupid and slow You can kill turrets via tracking disruption and you don't even have to do it one by one. Forget them in a rush? Please don't blame drones for your own idiocy. Next? didnt you ever tried situations where you have to get out FAST?? and drones are slow ass dummies. and how many actuly fit tracking disturbers? and HP's got very good tracking anyway so wont be much help
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.08.05 18:34:00 - [60] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 05/08/2005 18:34:36 I try and work a tracking disruptor into a lot of setups, simply because messing over 50% of setups is fun. Also a nice defense vs ebil mid-range sniperinos. \| Don't be a bad loser \|

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