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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:09:00 -
[1]
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
This kinda of puts smaller corps out of the shipping scene.
So how about a Light Freighter?
To make it easy, just give them 10% cargo and price of a Freighter, maybe even keep them the same speed, no slots, and 50% as durable.
The Amarr one for example could be something like this:
78,500 m3 capacity
45,000 structure
8,100 Armor
2,000 Shield
90 m/s
The Caldari:
85,000 m3 capacity
42,500 structure
8,000 armor
2,400 shield
80 m/s
Gallente:
81,250 m3
48,000 structure
9,000 armor
2,125 shield
85 m/s
Minmatar:
75,000 m3
40,000 structure
8,500 armor
2,250 shield
100 m/s
Price them somewhere between a tier 1 and tier 2 BS and viola, light freighters so smaller corps dont have to spend enough to become an alliance just to move stuff around.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Montero
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:14:00 -
[2]
iteron 5?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Montero
iteron 5?
If you are happy with 27315.559811695 m3 with 5x Expander IIs thats great.
Next?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:28:00 -
[4]
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
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Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Roba
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:30:00 -
[5]
Nah, just make them require the capital components, but less of them. Just say they left out the computer and whatever.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:38:00 -
[7]
Quote:
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
Bull****. If you can't afford one, you wouldn't know how to put one to full use.
Ideally, transport ships should have been light haulers, instead of uber expensive pimped up industrials, that offer no real advantages for their price, except resistances and are actually worse at some activities.
However, even though that phrase is wrong, i do agree that there should be something in the middle, between freighters and industrials, that wouldn't require such a massive isk investment, and that could be distributed via a single affordable (within a bil) BPO. But CCP have a mind of their own. 
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sadist
Quote:
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
Bull****. If you can't afford one, you wouldn't know how to put one to full use.
Ideally, transport ships should have been light haulers, instead of uber expensive pimped up industrials, that offer no real advantages for their price, except resistances and are actually worse at some activities.
However, even though that phrase is wrong, i do agree that there should be something in the middle, between freighters and industrials, that wouldn't require such a massive isk investment, and that could be distributed via a single affordable (within a bil) BPO. But CCP have a mind of their own.
If I could afford one, I would have far more interesting things to buy, I have no need of a Freighter, but my Mammoth is tired.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
slip66
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:59:00 -
[9]
no
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: slip66
no
Any particular reason why?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:02:00 -
[11]
Quote:
If I could afford one, I would have far more interesting things to buy, I have no need of a Freighter, but my Mammoth is tired
Well, you can be creative...hire your own corpmates, create courier missions...
Besides you can always sell a freighter once you have one, without losing money (and if you shop around, you can even make some).
Once the big boys hit, you can hire them to haul whatever you want in 1 run.
This does sound like a viable idea, but it would require a lot of balancing.
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:04:00 -
[12]
I think it's a bit early to start looking at more modifications to the hauler/freighter list we have atm. Freighters have only just been introduced and I think we should wait a little bit before making any additions/changes.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:07:00 -
[13]
A Freighter is overkill for my operations, we dont have a need to move 750k+ m3 unless we move our corp in bulk, but that would be a special time, a Light Freighter would be perfect for our normal loads.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ante
I think it's a bit early to start looking at more modifications to the hauler/freighter list we have atm. Freighters have only just been introduced and I think we should wait a little bit before making any additions/changes.
It may be, but Oveur did say the expected normal price for Freighters is ~800 mil.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Ariel322
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:15:00 -
[15]
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Hi. My name is Ariel322. I will be Darken Two's PR rep for the duration of his ban from these forums. Don't rejoice yet, it's only for 24hrs. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ariel322
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Trade runs do need a boost, but that has little effect on whether this is a good idea or not. I dont do them...perhaps someone that does could comment?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Vaaliant
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Posted - 2005.07.11 12:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Ariel322
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Trade runs do need a boost, but that has little effect on whether this is a good idea or not. I dont do them...perhaps someone that does could comment?
I do trade runs and I can tell ya right now for a good chunk of the runs (say about 65%-75%) you could fill up an ity 5 easily and have room to spare. In the process of doing so you cause the market to "cycle". Namely this is the point of the number of goods it takes to cause the price to go up or down depending on whether you are buying or selling, often described inappropriately as volume but really should be referred to as a volatility index. The smaller the number the more volatile that station is when buying goods.
A good chunk of the fairly lucrative goods out there run around 20k units, while the more expensive items have as little as 1000 or less in some cases. To give you an example lets say I ran a route of spiced wine, lets say the seller NPC market has 1000 units at 1540 isk. What this means is that I can buy 1000 units before the market cycles and introduces a much higher price (although just buying even a couple units can cause a cycle to hit too now). The higher price has a good chance of being so high that no NPC seller that I sell to will result in a profit. In these sorts of cases a trader ends up effectively doing a single run then having to look elsewhere to do his run.
What really needs to be boosted is a larger volume across the board of ALL goods being bought and sold by NPCs. With the introduction of freighters it makes even shipping something like reports/datasheets somewhat mildly worthwhile. But something like bulk cargo runs that result in low cost but steady income would be nice. I dont suppose CCP will take a look at this tho as last time they looked at the market they broke it until Exodus appeared and the reasoning behind that one was because they wanted a more player based economy
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:17:00 -
[18]
We need light freightors because moving your stuff around with an Iteron 5 is woefully inadaquate.
If you regularly move any volume of your things around for hunting ops, mining, or setting up a new base for pvp, you KNOW that it's incredibly annoying to make 10 trips because you simply cant get enough cargo space. Hauling ammo is just as bad, and you don't even have the space to the minerals to build ammo (if you could) on site. Please make a "stepping-stone" to freightors just to help with personal logistics as well as corporate ones.
23000m3 is just too small to be convenient to move your things. If I want to travel to where some friends are hanging out and play with them for a while, I shouln't need to spend 5 hours to do so.
It inhibits player interaction because it takes so long to move - and that is a Bad ThingÖ
Nyxus
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
I'm sure there are some corps out there dropping ISK left and right to create an undisputed king of haulers. And then to use them in order to transport dreadnaught components. I'm reasoning this from that this is what I would do if I had a tremendous pile of money, and some corps do.
Now, if you introduce a light freight able to carry more than just 1 dreadnaught component, you've given an alternative to actually purchasing a freight for that whole expensive task. And doing that would result in fewer people going the full 9 yards to get a freighter, which would be, in my opinion, kicking people who already bought their BPO in the beanbag.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Charles Tucker
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nyxus
...
23000m3 is just too small to be convenient to move your things. If I want to travel to where some friends are hanging out and play with them for a while, I shouln't need to spend 5 hours to do so.
...
Nyxus
If u want to play with some friends 'for a while' u don't need to take all your stuff with you. And if u need all then spend the time to transport all there. Where is the point? I moved all my stuff (around 600k m¦) with a Mammoth (22k m¦) 12jumps away, took me nearly 2 weeks of transporting (freighter were not available at this time), so if u need 5hours u only have little stuff to transport, and 5h should not be too much time to spend in transporting.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
I'm sure there are some corps out there dropping ISK left and right to create an undisputed king of haulers. And then to use them in order to transport dreadnaught components. I'm reasoning this from that this is what I would do if I had a tremendous pile of money, and some corps do.
Now, if you introduce a light freight able to carry more than just 1 dreadnaught component, you've given an alternative to actually purchasing a freight for that whole expensive task. And doing that would result in fewer people going the full 9 yards to get a freighter, which would be, in my opinion, kicking people who already bought their BPO in the beanbag.
Capital Components are 10k m3 each.
Perhaps someone building Dreads and/or Freighters could comment?
Light Freighters wouldnt displace regular Freighters, anyone that was going to buy a Freighter would probably still buy a Freighter.
As CCP said Freighters are for MegaCorps and Alliances that need a much stronger logistical backbone.
Light Freighters would be more common for sure, because the people who would buy them wouldnt be MegaCorps and Alliances.
And I would suspect that the ppl building Freighters, would build Light Freighters too.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:13:00 -
[22]
question: after light freighters, what would follow? mini-light freighters? battle-freighters? where would you draw the line?
realize that CCP has to draw a line somewhere...
why here?...
...why anywhere else?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Na'Axin
question: after light freighters, what would follow? mini-light freighters? battle-freighters? where would you draw the line?
realize that CCP has to draw a line somewhere...
why here?...
...why anywhere else?
I think you are getting carried away. Indies are the 'mini'light freighters' and transport ships are the 'battle-freighters'.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.07.12 04:20:00 -
[24]
heck i'd buy one. sounds good to me.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.12 05:26:00 -
[25]
Sign me up. If there's a market for it, why not. And there obviously is.
And if the poeple who bought freighter bpos find it hard to make their cash back.... well its a free economy. people wont buy what they have no use for.
You should probably make them 20% the price of freighters, while being only 10% in size.
Light freighters should be the cheaper smaller alternative for small operations, but full fledged freighters should be more cost-efficient, imo.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.12 05:32:00 -
[26]
A ship, 30-100k cargo capacity, station to station with a cost ceiling no higher than about 150-200m and I'd buy one I think.
As it stands I might help a freind get into a freighter but i'm never even gonna try to get into one myself (which is mildly sad since I've had the pre-requisites skills for the minmatar one for probably 14-18 months now  )
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Encad Briht
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:23:00 -
[27]
30-100k m¦ would totally ok,
freighter is much to big and to slow for use in a normal middle
Empire-based Corp.
i dont need those tons for hauling Ore from the belt (my Mammoth does this quite well), but to transfer the Minerals (maybe an amout of 75k m¦) from the mining system to the production system.
I would be appreciatet aout some slots to specialize this ship to speed or durability
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Colthor
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:25:00 -
[28]
A light freighter would be an extremely useful toy for small/medium corps.
Why not make it built like the normal freighters - BPO is cheap, but requires all the components building seperately? That way the people with freighter BPOs don't lose and the people with the component BPOs win because of the bigger market.
--
OTO are selling Impel and Bustard transport ships. Contact Tsavong Lah or Lacero Callrisian for details.
Like mining, hauling or building? Join OTO! |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Colthor
A light freighter would be an extremely useful toy for small/medium corps.
Why not make it built like the normal freighters - BPO is cheap, but requires all the components building seperately? That way the people with freighter BPOs don't lose and the people with the component BPOs win because of the bigger market.
Perfectly okay with me, Im not out to cut people out of the market. 
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Seramis
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Encad Briht
30-100k m¦ would totally ok,
freighter is much to big and to slow for use in a normal middle
Empire-based Corp.
i dont need those tons for hauling Ore from the belt (my Mammoth does this quite well), but to transfer the Minerals (maybe an amout of 75k m¦) from the mining system to the production system.
I would be appreciatet aout some slots to specialize this ship to speed or durability
Maybe with cargo expander II u will have 30 - 40k m¦, with best named u already have up to 27k m¦ (would 3k m¦ make such a big difference for u?)
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