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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:09:00 -
[1]
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
This kinda of puts smaller corps out of the shipping scene.
So how about a Light Freighter?
To make it easy, just give them 10% cargo and price of a Freighter, maybe even keep them the same speed, no slots, and 50% as durable.
The Amarr one for example could be something like this:
78,500 m3 capacity
45,000 structure
8,100 Armor
2,000 Shield
90 m/s
The Caldari:
85,000 m3 capacity
42,500 structure
8,000 armor
2,400 shield
80 m/s
Gallente:
81,250 m3
48,000 structure
9,000 armor
2,125 shield
85 m/s
Minmatar:
75,000 m3
40,000 structure
8,500 armor
2,250 shield
100 m/s
Price them somewhere between a tier 1 and tier 2 BS and viola, light freighters so smaller corps dont have to spend enough to become an alliance just to move stuff around.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Montero
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:14:00 -
[2]
iteron 5?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Montero
iteron 5?
If you are happy with 27315.559811695 m3 with 5x Expander IIs thats great.
Next?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:28:00 -
[4]
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Roba
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:30:00 -
[5]
Nah, just make them require the capital components, but less of them. Just say they left out the computer and whatever.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 04:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:38:00 -
[7]
Quote:
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
Bull****. If you can't afford one, you wouldn't know how to put one to full use.
Ideally, transport ships should have been light haulers, instead of uber expensive pimped up industrials, that offer no real advantages for their price, except resistances and are actually worse at some activities.
However, even though that phrase is wrong, i do agree that there should be something in the middle, between freighters and industrials, that wouldn't require such a massive isk investment, and that could be distributed via a single affordable (within a bil) BPO. But CCP have a mind of their own. 
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sadist
Quote:
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
Bull****. If you can't afford one, you wouldn't know how to put one to full use.
Ideally, transport ships should have been light haulers, instead of uber expensive pimped up industrials, that offer no real advantages for their price, except resistances and are actually worse at some activities.
However, even though that phrase is wrong, i do agree that there should be something in the middle, between freighters and industrials, that wouldn't require such a massive isk investment, and that could be distributed via a single affordable (within a bil) BPO. But CCP have a mind of their own.
If I could afford one, I would have far more interesting things to buy, I have no need of a Freighter, but my Mammoth is tired.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
slip66
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Posted - 2005.07.11 05:59:00 -
[9]
no
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: slip66
no
Any particular reason why?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:02:00 -
[11]
Quote:
If I could afford one, I would have far more interesting things to buy, I have no need of a Freighter, but my Mammoth is tired
Well, you can be creative...hire your own corpmates, create courier missions...
Besides you can always sell a freighter once you have one, without losing money (and if you shop around, you can even make some).
Once the big boys hit, you can hire them to haul whatever you want in 1 run.
This does sound like a viable idea, but it would require a lot of balancing.
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:04:00 -
[12]
I think it's a bit early to start looking at more modifications to the hauler/freighter list we have atm. Freighters have only just been introduced and I think we should wait a little bit before making any additions/changes.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:07:00 -
[13]
A Freighter is overkill for my operations, we dont have a need to move 750k+ m3 unless we move our corp in bulk, but that would be a special time, a Light Freighter would be perfect for our normal loads.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ante
I think it's a bit early to start looking at more modifications to the hauler/freighter list we have atm. Freighters have only just been introduced and I think we should wait a little bit before making any additions/changes.
It may be, but Oveur did say the expected normal price for Freighters is ~800 mil.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Ariel322
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:15:00 -
[15]
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Hi. My name is Ariel322. I will be Darken Two's PR rep for the duration of his ban from these forums. Don't rejoice yet, it's only for 24hrs. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 06:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ariel322
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Trade runs do need a boost, but that has little effect on whether this is a good idea or not. I dont do them...perhaps someone that does could comment?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Vaaliant
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Posted - 2005.07.11 12:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Ariel322
Yes lets adjust lvl 4 missions to keep inflation in check. And then lets start the next round of massive inflation by letting every noob and his dog make a fortune doing trade runs in the light freighters.
Its not neccesary. Light freighters is another economic disaster waiting to happen.
Trade runs do need a boost, but that has little effect on whether this is a good idea or not. I dont do them...perhaps someone that does could comment?
I do trade runs and I can tell ya right now for a good chunk of the runs (say about 65%-75%) you could fill up an ity 5 easily and have room to spare. In the process of doing so you cause the market to "cycle". Namely this is the point of the number of goods it takes to cause the price to go up or down depending on whether you are buying or selling, often described inappropriately as volume but really should be referred to as a volatility index. The smaller the number the more volatile that station is when buying goods.
A good chunk of the fairly lucrative goods out there run around 20k units, while the more expensive items have as little as 1000 or less in some cases. To give you an example lets say I ran a route of spiced wine, lets say the seller NPC market has 1000 units at 1540 isk. What this means is that I can buy 1000 units before the market cycles and introduces a much higher price (although just buying even a couple units can cause a cycle to hit too now). The higher price has a good chance of being so high that no NPC seller that I sell to will result in a profit. In these sorts of cases a trader ends up effectively doing a single run then having to look elsewhere to do his run.
What really needs to be boosted is a larger volume across the board of ALL goods being bought and sold by NPCs. With the introduction of freighters it makes even shipping something like reports/datasheets somewhat mildly worthwhile. But something like bulk cargo runs that result in low cost but steady income would be nice. I dont suppose CCP will take a look at this tho as last time they looked at the market they broke it until Exodus appeared and the reasoning behind that one was because they wanted a more player based economy
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:17:00 -
[18]
We need light freightors because moving your stuff around with an Iteron 5 is woefully inadaquate.
If you regularly move any volume of your things around for hunting ops, mining, or setting up a new base for pvp, you KNOW that it's incredibly annoying to make 10 trips because you simply cant get enough cargo space. Hauling ammo is just as bad, and you don't even have the space to the minerals to build ammo (if you could) on site. Please make a "stepping-stone" to freightors just to help with personal logistics as well as corporate ones.
23000m3 is just too small to be convenient to move your things. If I want to travel to where some friends are hanging out and play with them for a while, I shouln't need to spend 5 hours to do so.
It inhibits player interaction because it takes so long to move - and that is a Bad ThingÖ
Nyxus
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
I'm sure there are some corps out there dropping ISK left and right to create an undisputed king of haulers. And then to use them in order to transport dreadnaught components. I'm reasoning this from that this is what I would do if I had a tremendous pile of money, and some corps do.
Now, if you introduce a light freight able to carry more than just 1 dreadnaught component, you've given an alternative to actually purchasing a freight for that whole expensive task. And doing that would result in fewer people going the full 9 yards to get a freighter, which would be, in my opinion, kicking people who already bought their BPO in the beanbag.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Charles Tucker
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Posted - 2005.07.11 13:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nyxus
...
23000m3 is just too small to be convenient to move your things. If I want to travel to where some friends are hanging out and play with them for a while, I shouln't need to spend 5 hours to do so.
...
Nyxus
If u want to play with some friends 'for a while' u don't need to take all your stuff with you. And if u need all then spend the time to transport all there. Where is the point? I moved all my stuff (around 600k m¦) with a Mammoth (22k m¦) 12jumps away, took me nearly 2 weeks of transporting (freighter were not available at this time), so if u need 5hours u only have little stuff to transport, and 5h should not be too much time to spend in transporting.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Seems to me that that would kill the demand for regular freighters just a bit. And that would be bad for the people that invested in all those components and such already. I didn't, but I'd rather not kick them in the beanbag so soon after purchase.
How so? None of these could carry most of the stuff the regular freighters are needed for.
I'm sure there are some corps out there dropping ISK left and right to create an undisputed king of haulers. And then to use them in order to transport dreadnaught components. I'm reasoning this from that this is what I would do if I had a tremendous pile of money, and some corps do.
Now, if you introduce a light freight able to carry more than just 1 dreadnaught component, you've given an alternative to actually purchasing a freight for that whole expensive task. And doing that would result in fewer people going the full 9 yards to get a freighter, which would be, in my opinion, kicking people who already bought their BPO in the beanbag.
Capital Components are 10k m3 each.
Perhaps someone building Dreads and/or Freighters could comment?
Light Freighters wouldnt displace regular Freighters, anyone that was going to buy a Freighter would probably still buy a Freighter.
As CCP said Freighters are for MegaCorps and Alliances that need a much stronger logistical backbone.
Light Freighters would be more common for sure, because the people who would buy them wouldnt be MegaCorps and Alliances.
And I would suspect that the ppl building Freighters, would build Light Freighters too.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:13:00 -
[22]
question: after light freighters, what would follow? mini-light freighters? battle-freighters? where would you draw the line?
realize that CCP has to draw a line somewhere...
why here?...
...why anywhere else?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Na'Axin
question: after light freighters, what would follow? mini-light freighters? battle-freighters? where would you draw the line?
realize that CCP has to draw a line somewhere...
why here?...
...why anywhere else?
I think you are getting carried away. Indies are the 'mini'light freighters' and transport ships are the 'battle-freighters'.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.07.12 04:20:00 -
[24]
heck i'd buy one. sounds good to me.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.12 05:26:00 -
[25]
Sign me up. If there's a market for it, why not. And there obviously is.
And if the poeple who bought freighter bpos find it hard to make their cash back.... well its a free economy. people wont buy what they have no use for.
You should probably make them 20% the price of freighters, while being only 10% in size.
Light freighters should be the cheaper smaller alternative for small operations, but full fledged freighters should be more cost-efficient, imo.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.12 05:32:00 -
[26]
A ship, 30-100k cargo capacity, station to station with a cost ceiling no higher than about 150-200m and I'd buy one I think.
As it stands I might help a freind get into a freighter but i'm never even gonna try to get into one myself (which is mildly sad since I've had the pre-requisites skills for the minmatar one for probably 14-18 months now  )
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Encad Briht
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:23:00 -
[27]
30-100k m¦ would totally ok,
freighter is much to big and to slow for use in a normal middle
Empire-based Corp.
i dont need those tons for hauling Ore from the belt (my Mammoth does this quite well), but to transfer the Minerals (maybe an amout of 75k m¦) from the mining system to the production system.
I would be appreciatet aout some slots to specialize this ship to speed or durability
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Colthor
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:25:00 -
[28]
A light freighter would be an extremely useful toy for small/medium corps.
Why not make it built like the normal freighters - BPO is cheap, but requires all the components building seperately? That way the people with freighter BPOs don't lose and the people with the component BPOs win because of the bigger market.
--
OTO are selling Impel and Bustard transport ships. Contact Tsavong Lah or Lacero Callrisian for details.
Like mining, hauling or building? Join OTO! |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Colthor
A light freighter would be an extremely useful toy for small/medium corps.
Why not make it built like the normal freighters - BPO is cheap, but requires all the components building seperately? That way the people with freighter BPOs don't lose and the people with the component BPOs win because of the bigger market.
Perfectly okay with me, Im not out to cut people out of the market. 
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Seramis
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Encad Briht
30-100k m¦ would totally ok,
freighter is much to big and to slow for use in a normal middle
Empire-based Corp.
i dont need those tons for hauling Ore from the belt (my Mammoth does this quite well), but to transfer the Minerals (maybe an amout of 75k m¦) from the mining system to the production system.
I would be appreciatet aout some slots to specialize this ship to speed or durability
Maybe with cargo expander II u will have 30 - 40k m¦, with best named u already have up to 27k m¦ (would 3k m¦ make such a big difference for u?)
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Montero
iteron 5?
27315.559811695 m3 with 5x Expander IIs.
Next?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Seraph Demon
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Posted - 2005.07.12 09:16:00 -
[32]
Note that freighters were just slightly nerfed, now none of them can carry over 1M m3.
Light Freighters: 70-120 m3 cargo
Signed.
I can't understand how this is controversial in the slightest, were I a space-ship design house I wouldn't design a bajillion-rillion-skillion ton ship and forgo building a trillion ton ship if there was demand for both.
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Seramis
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Posted - 2005.07.12 10:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Montero
iteron 5?
27315.559811695 m3 with 5x Expander IIs.
Next?
That's with best named expander. Afaik Expander II are not in game atm, so who will now the right stats?
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DeadDuck
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Posted - 2005.07.12 11:50:00 -
[34]
Just my 5 cents here ... I'm only playing this game for a month now, but after being extremelly busy trading I've reached the conclusion that industrial ships just dont have enough cargo capacity to do the job right
Even with cargo extenders there are lots of trading goods just to large to make a 5-7 jumps trip worth it .... thinking in Constructions Blocks with 4m3 and a lot of others with 1, 2 m3 .... and in the end just 300K and 500K of Gross Margin 
The Light Freighter would be a good response to this problem 
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WhiskeyDP
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Posted - 2005.07.12 11:59:00 -
[35]
there should and must be a gap between the industrials that we have in game today. if ccp bring in one with 100k cargo it will destroy the freighters imo.
now you have the choice: either stay with your 20-35k indy/transporter or invest in one big and expensive(yes freighters are expensive and should remain that) freighter. it is also good that the ship itselfs takes 2 weeks to build, coz we do notwant another fiasco as we did with the bs's where even a 2 week old trial account player fly one
it is easier to make 1b isk today then it was to get isk for your first battleship 1,5years ago(battleships was still rare back then, or atleast semi rare) and then they did cost about the same price as today: 110+- before they did hit lowtime price of 55m for tier1 and 75m for teir2
i repeat: do not make the same mistake with freighters and dreads please
==================
Obelisk - comming soon plz check bio
Charon - comming soon plz check bio
wts Zealot - @ 75m
wts BPC's - check my bio ingame(i have a huge selection of ships/modules) |
DeadDuck
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: WhiskeyDP
either stay with your 20-35k indy/transporter
Can U tell me what industrial/trans ship can be fitted out to reach that cargo cap ???? even with skills developed ???
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:27:00 -
[37]
Originally by: WhiskeyDP
there should and must be a gap between the industrials that we have in game today. if ccp bring in one with 100k cargo it will destroy the freighters imo.
now you have the choice: either stay with your 20-35k indy/transporter or invest in one big and expensive(yes freighters are expensive and should remain that) freighter. it is also good that the ship itselfs takes 2 weeks to build, coz we do notwant another fiasco as we did with the bs's where even a 2 week old trial account player fly one
it is easier to make 1b isk today then it was to get isk for your first battleship 1,5years ago(battleships was still rare back then, or atleast semi rare) and then they did cost about the same price as today: 110+- before they did hit lowtime price of 55m for tier1 and 75m for teir2
i repeat: do not make the same mistake with freighters and dreads please
I don't want to burst your bubble, but a IT5 with 5 locals fitted is still a 300 mil ship that can be destroyed in Yulai by 2 suiciding Caracals worth 7 mil a piece.
So IT5-hauling is rather costly too...
Besides... Lvl. 4 Cargo-hauling missions anyone ?
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WhiskeyDP
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:35:00 -
[38]
Edited by: WhiskeyDP on 12/07/2005 12:36:22
deadduck: i think impels can get their cargo boosted above 35k mark and u can get above 30k without any problem in occator, but ofc u need indy5 and if u are a serious industrial u should have that. and plz dont come and say that u as a 2month old player wants too be able too fly a 100k cargo ship
shan: transportships 4tw
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Obelisk - comming soon plz check bio
Charon - comming soon plz check bio
wts Zealot - @ 75m
wts BPC's - check my bio ingame(i have a huge selection of ships/modules) |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:40:00 -
[39]
I agree that we need a sort of in between freighter that carries something on the order of 100k m3.
As it is reight now, a single freighter can not haul all the parts to build a freighter or dread in a single trip (even before the reduction in cargo they will see on wednesday)
A gallante freighter for instance needs 170 parts (88 cargo bays, 15 armor plates, 50 construction parts, and 17 engines) and every single one of them is 10,000m3 in size. That is 1,700,000m3 in parts alone.
As for hualing things around with a regular industrial, the largest cargo bay possible in an indy is right around 25k m3 on the Amarr dead space indy. With its 7 low slots, it can just overtake the iteron 5 in cargo. That is still only 2 parts to make a freighter that it can carry. Just to put it even more into prospective. The parts needed for a freighter would take 85 trips to move in an industrial or 2 trip in a freighter (maybe even three if your freighter skill is not that high and you have a minmatar or amarr freighter.
To you nah sayers, is 100k m3 of cargo really going to remove the roles of freighters? I doubt it. I suspect that even the size of a build outpost platform is likely to be more that 100k m3 of it could be increased to being over that size easily so that you still have to have a freighter to move the outpost platform around.
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DeadDuck
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: WhiskeyDP
Edited by: WhiskeyDP on 12/07/2005 12:36:22
2month old player wants too be able too fly a 100k cargo ship
quote]
Ty for the tip ..... flying that kind of ships with 2 months ofc not .... but It would be great to have that objective
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WhiskeyDP
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Posted - 2005.07.12 12:57:00 -
[41]
a 100k hauler will take a lot of the use of a freigheter. most of the ppl will buy it so they can transport minerals or other big cargo stuff they need too move. by putting in a 100k indy u will destroy most of the market for those who did invest 6,5b or more into the freighter project.
it should and must be a big gap from the regular haulers to a freighter and putting a 100k indy into the game would be like screwing all freigheter BPO owners all over imo.
==================
Obelisk - comming soon plz check bio
Charon - comming soon plz check bio
wts Zealot - @ 75m
wts BPC's - check my bio ingame(i have a huge selection of ships/modules) |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.07.12 13:13:00 -
[42]
i dont think a 100k hualer would do that.
It takes 2 freighter loads to collect the parts (or minerals) to build another freighter or dread. The freighter will still be king of hualing. I dont know how much space the parts to build an outpost platform will take ot how much the completed platform will take but I would bet that it is more than 100k m3.
For those that say you can reach 35k m3 in an industrial or transport ship that is currently in game...you are wrong.
the Impel (deep space amarr transport with 7 low slots) hits the following max cargos:
Using 7 Local hull conversion expanders (27.44% each): 27296.7 m3
Using 7 Cargo Expander 2 (29.5% each by the database on this site): 30539.25 m3
Where do you get 45k+ cargo space?
All a that a 100K cargo hualer would do is allow smaller corps access to something like the freighter. I am part of a smaller corp and I am producing parts for dreads and freighters. Right now without a freighter, it would take me around 20 trip to deliver my parts to an end producer (i only fly minmatar so i can't reach 20k m3 in cargo easily without using mods I can not afford to use) while a 100k m3 hualer would allow me to do it in two trips. Sure make it an expensive hualer (100 to 200mil in price) that I can afford and get use out of. To tell me I have to save a billion (hard since it is difficult for me to even deliver my parts) so that I can buy a freighter to deliver my parts, and then only use 1/10 of the cargo capacity is a little overkill. Yes people will turn them into trade route running ships. Well if you make them slow (and warp slow) there is still room for smaller, faster industrials to make runs before the route dies, and most of the trade routes that make money fast are already farmed to death now, this wont change them at all. It may get people to look at other items though.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.12 13:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Light Freighters wouldnt displace regular Freighters, anyone that was going to buy a Freighter would probably still buy a Freighter.
Thats what I primarily disagree with. Like, just because the iteron V is out there, and I want to do some hauling, that doesn't mean I'm going to get it. Mammoth was an excellent brass ring for me.
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Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.07.12 13:21:00 -
[44]
I support the idea of light freighters in the 50-100k m3 range.
Here is why...
First Skills:
Freighter skills (Amarr for example)
Advanced Spaceship Command I
Spaceship Command V
Amarr Freighter I
Amarr Industrial V
Amarr Frigate III
That is months on a dedicated training programme quite apart from learning skills and other ship handling skills they would need to function adequately. We all know that for this reason alone new players are not getting their hands on Freighters in the way they can with BS.
What change to skill reqs should a Light Freighter have?
Well, I suggest a single change, from Amarr Freighter I (a ferocious rank 10 skill) to Amarr Light Freighter I (at rank 7 - 3 above industrial, 3 below Freighter.
It's still a high level of skill requirements and it also stops people from accessing two distinct classes of ship from one ship class skill. If a Light Freighter pilot ever wants to advance to Freighters proper, they'll have to train the specific skill. This balances the lesser requirement for Light Freighters.
Most of the training time for access is in racial industrial and spaceship command. The training time for development of the ship through its bonuses is still substantial.
Second, role
Main roles of Freighter class
1) Transport of Capital Ship components
2) Transport of Outpost components
3) Transport of eye-popping amounts of minerals and fuels
4) Transport of very large numbers of small components and tools
5) Transport of packaged ships for relocation and/or trade
6) Transport of huge volumes of modules for trade
7) Wholesale corporate relocations
Just a few that occur, there are of course many other things you could do, the above just seem to be the operations such a superbulk cargo vessel would excel in.
Note that transport of the components for a single dreadnought will take 3-4 trips of a Freighter (depending on the end result of the cargo volume nerf). Therefore a Light Freighter could require 30-50 trips to carry out the same task.
This goes for outpost components and while a large volume of minerals and components for trade could be shipped with a Light Freighter it does not threaten the purpose of shipping minerals/small components/fuels to an outpost construction rig or in the bulk required for cap ship/outpost component manufacturing.
A light freighter would also not threaten the function of transporting large classes of ships in bulk. Certainly smaller packaged ships such as frigates and cruisers could be moved with some efficiency with a light freighter but not really the larger classes.
I would grant that you could transport large numbers of modules with a Light Freighter but the truth is that midlevel manufacturers simply do not need a Freighter for that purpose. Only the superproducers would really need a Freighter and then only, I would suspect, to supply markets in other regions.
Likewise, corporate relocations are a matter of taste with what to take, recycle, sell, trash. Moderately sized corps might well use a Light Freighter for the purpose but again, it's not really going to be the most frequent use of a Freighter in any event.
Third, construction.
Make them require a proportionate amount of capital ship components and there is no issue - Freighter builders can make these too and I would bet make more money overall than if they only sold Freighters.
Fourth, the mining issue.
Simple - make them station to station only. (This is my personal view and also a realistic view: CCP, I suspect, simply do not want a ship capable of picking up more than a maxed out Iteron V can from an ore belt.)
The truth is, both from a skills requirement basis, purposes and construction, there is no threat whatsoever to Eve's economy or player base from such a class as the Light Freighter.
In fact, such a class would enhance the economy. Now, I doubt it will come soon but CCP should watch carefully as I believe the gap between indies and freighters will only highlight the need.
Cosmo
Jericho Fraction - CEO: Jade Constantine |
WhiskeyDP
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Posted - 2005.07.12 13:33:00 -
[45]
freighters/dreads should be a corp/alliance project tbh. it shouldnt be easy too get one without a lot of work. and i stil stand by mu word that its easier too get a freighter today then it was too get your first teir2 battleship 1,5years ago. the game shouldnt be to easy, which it have been since they introduced lvl4 agents imo
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Obelisk - comming soon plz check bio
Charon - comming soon plz check bio
wts Zealot - @ 75m
wts BPC's - check my bio ingame(i have a huge selection of ships/modules) |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 19:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Seramis
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Montero
iteron 5?
27315.559811695 m3 with 5x Expander IIs.
Next?
That's with best named expander. Afaik Expander II are not in game atm, so who will now the right stats?
No, that is with Expander IIs, that is the best cargo an Iteron V will ever get, unless I goofed on the math. Expander IIs are 29.5% as it says on the market. They aren't out yet no.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 19:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: WhiskeyDP
freighters/dreads should be a corp/alliance project tbh. it shouldnt be easy too get one without a lot of work. and i stil stand by mu word that its easier too get a freighter today then it was too get your first teir2 battleship 1,5years ago. the game shouldnt be to easy, which it have been since they introduced lvl4 agents imo
Even if I could afford a Freighter, I wouldn't buy one, because I can't justify the cost. A Light Freighter is perfect for my corp's needs.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 19:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
The way Freighters work now pretty much limits them to mega corps and alliances that have the need for a high capacity point to point hauler.
That is the point with freighters. As with all the new capital sized ships, they are for alliances and their internal industry. Freighters in particular are for moving starbases and outposts, not everyday use.
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
This kinda of puts smaller corps out of the shipping scene.
The freighter is not a ship fit for shipping. Would you move Gas in a dump truck or a big rig? The freighter is the Dump truck in that example.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 19:45:00 -
[49]
So are you arguing for or against Light Freighters...
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 20:50:00 -
[50]
I'd vote against them, because we're already making more money than the game is balanced for. Battleships were supposed to be rare and only for the rich. Freighters might rock that balance even further, making HACs something anyone can afford relatively easy.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:06:00 -
[51]
That is simply because the cost of operating a BS is down to the cost of ammo. Without a fuel source required for ship use, it will never be fixed, so why limit the game because of it.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.07.22 16:09:00 -
[52]
I use a Prowler. Its a heck of a ship and has taken on short and long range Tempests, and numerous elite frigates. Its an excellent ship for running blockades. I think its best used to bring ammo to a station bombardment.
But it hauls less than a T1 industrial, I have no idea why but I guess its OK.
The 2nd Transport ship known as "deep space" transport has no current value in deep space. Its best used in empire where you can fit a full rack of cargo expanders and fly in safety. If you want to add value you will have to give it 10% per lvl cargo bonus. And then I probably still won't fly it.
That way I can fly Prowler when I am solo. But if I can find a combat m8, i can use the Mastodon which will make the trip more efficient. (Well not really since both of us could just fly Prowlers...)
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Muntz
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:38:00 -
[53]
I fly ships because they look cool. Like the Sigil...that looks cool. And the Amarr freighter looks cool. So, if they made light freighters look cool...hey, I might buy one.
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Jiggy
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:07:00 -
[54]
There is no need for a light freighter but there is a need for a cargo bay boost on the t2 indys.
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Xavier Belt
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:13:00 -
[55]
The Minmatar ship having more armor than the Amarr ship? That's just right out.
Anyways, I think a Light Freighter is viable, but it should be more like.. 20% of the cost with 10% of the cargo space, to keep freighters and industrials viable.
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@BrerRabbit> you have to be the iron mallet of reason
@Quixzlizx> right now he's being the "stupid comedian" of reason |
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.07.22 20:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: WhiskeyDP
either stay with your 20-35k indy/transporter
Can U tell me what industrial/trans ship can be fitted out to reach that cargo cap ???? even with skills developed ???
Impel with t2 expanders and giant cans can reach just short of 40k. With best named expanders it reaches ~35k with giant cans. It also crawls along at a sad pace of 17m/s.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
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