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Die Unknown
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
5
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's not easy to unseat a powerful alliance. More often then not, large alliances are destroyed from within, as opposed to any military action by their enemies. With their large incomes, they can lose a titan on a Monday, and have it replaced on Tuesday.
Here lies the problem; prolonged military campaigns are completely ineffective in upsetting the status quo. Sure, we still have the ability to infiltrate and destroy from within, but that's not so difficult to protect against. More importantly, that should not be the only option. INR, logistics are everything, and any disruption wreaks havoc. This is a problem Alliances are almost entirely immune to in Eve.
Not only has logistics in Eve have been simplified over time, there aren't any tools available to us to disrupt them altogether. A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99% risk free. So no matter how many titans and motherships you blow up, big power blocks have an uninterpretable faucet of isk they can replace them with.
No one should be able to hide in an NPC corp. The solution is simple, we should be able to wardeck individuals in an NPC corp. They could still join or form player corporations, but the wardeck will follow them. This introduces a new level of complexity that we sorely need.
TL;DR: I need about three fiddy |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
129
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm confused as to how being able to wardec people in an NPC corp equates to breaking nullsec corps. Or do you happen to know the names of every alt they have and know how this cane be used without such a system being used solely to grief newbies. |
Dave Stark
1802
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
translation "i want to gank freighter pilots, in high sec, without penalty" "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Die Unknown
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
5
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:I'm confused as to how being able to wardec people in an NPC corp equates to breaking nullsec corps. Or do you happen to know the names of every alt they have and know how this cane be used without such a system being used solely to grief newbies.
Paying 25-50m a week to grief one newbie would be incredibly stupid. However, your question highlights exactly how this mechanic introduces a richer gameplay. You will of course need to make use of intelligence and recon tools to find out exactly who is doing all the hauling. You will not be able to shut down the logistics overnight, instead this would be another tool in your arsenal when fighting a prolonged military campaign. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think he is saying that the null sec players all have highsec NPC corp alts to move things around and do business in JITA. And that if those alts could be wardeced it would be a way to strike out at null corps.
I've often wondered why wardecs have to be specific to a corp. It would cool to be able to war dec an account or maybe all the players with a certain avatar model, or to wardec anyone flying a specific ship ie. all Hulks!
It seems to me that wardec's are just a bribe to CONCORD to turn a blind eye, I'm sure those same officials would be happy to offer a greater variety of targets...for a price!
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 12:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Or maybe wardec a specific region, constellation, or system. Or maybe sort it by majority play time, or just everyone in systems X,Y,Z, and G between the times of 0300 and 0700.
I remember reading something about the cost for wardecs being based on the number of targets that you would get from the dec. It seems like it would be easy enough to calculate target numbers for non-corp wardecs and come up with the same kind of price scheme.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
719
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:TL;DR: I need about three fiddy I'll give you ten piffles and the holy shrubbery [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Sriracha Nighthawk
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
636
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:TL;DR: I need about three fiddy You had a good point, but you totally ruined it with that. Power provides the ability to choose but has the proclivity for corruption. ~Kahu ia Kane'ohe's twin
Follow me on Twitter @SriNighthawk |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
129
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Posted - 2013.02.03 12:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Or maybe wardec a specific region, constellation, or system. Or maybe sort it by majority play time, or just everyone in systems X,Y,Z, and G between the times of 0300 and 0700.
I remember reading something about the cost for wardecs being based on the number of targets that you would get from the dec. It seems like it would be easy enough to calculate target numbers for non-corp wardecs and come up with the same kind of price scheme. Wardeccing a region of space would effectively turn it into a nulsec zone, and that's a terribly bad idea because it would break the fundamental workings of EvE. It's an idea that has been shot down countless times because of the issues it poses. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Or maybe wardec a specific region, constellation, or system. Or maybe sort it by majority play time, or just everyone in systems X,Y,Z, and G between the times of 0300 and 0700.
I remember reading something about the cost for wardecs being based on the number of targets that you would get from the dec. It seems like it would be easy enough to calculate target numbers for non-corp wardecs and come up with the same kind of price scheme. Wardeccing a region of space would effectively turn it into a nulsec zone, and that's a terribly bad idea because it would break the fundamental workings of EvE. It's an idea that has been shot down countless times because of the issues it poses. It would be like lowsec not null; no bombs and no bubbles. And the fundamental underpinning of Eve is "anything for a price." There's all kinds of limitations that could be imposed as well; no T1 ships, only combat ships, or a player from the corp that bought the wardec only gets so many kills.
CCP always tries to balance things, I think they could balance this and it would be a ton of fun. Something different to try out and explore anyway.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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darmwand
Repo.
82
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99% risk free.
Just keep popping those cynos, we're working on that. darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
129
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh, well in that case, next time I go through Rancer, I should pay concord to turn that into high security space for a day |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
314
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
While the US may consider corporations people, they lack anatomical features that would result in a mound of soft flesh laced heavily with nerves from which I may go and apply sufficient pressure to cause hematoma. Therefore I suggest that all such grouping of people should be made to have critical must protect infrastructure that they must actively defend. The loss of said infrastructure should result in the immediate disbandment of the corporation and forfeiture of any all assets in but not limited to corporation hangars within stations, POSes, market orders on their behalf, S&I jobs and contributory sovereignty. This will at once enable the so called golden BB effect as done by smaller corporations, but it will also force the wars of aggression so necessary to the proper and right functioning of the nullsec ecosystem. As such I move that the health for sov structures should be reduced to 10% of current values and be made to require constant maintenance starting at an approximate ISK value of 50 million per month and scaling on an exponential curve based on the activities of its members as defined by their Crest. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
And those wardecs could be limited to a certain % of empire space. So if you don't want to fly in them it would be easy enough to just move out of the systems in question. To me it just seems like would make Eve much more dynamic. And more sinks are always good!
Right now everything seems so static and fixed. Highsec grinds along without the need to interact with the game and Null is stuck at place where the biggest dogs can control how big any new dogs get.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
280
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Oh, well in that case, next time I go through Rancer, I should pay concord to turn that into high security space for a day
Im good with that! And maybe pay for CONCORD protection in nullsec to if you want to go out there and mine a bit. Just anything to get people moving around and out of their ISK grind ruts.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Die Unknown
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
5
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue.
We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve? |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue.
I was looking at jump bridges the other day trying to find some weakness, some material that could be monopolized from highsec. I couldn't find anything like that, they are tough and not hard to build.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Vexen Lyre
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?
'cos no one will sub. end of. Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant |
Vexen Lyre
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
doublepost. Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant |
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
129
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:And those wardecs could be limited to a certain % of empire space. So if you don't want to fly in them it would be easy enough to just move out of the systems in question. To me it just seems like would make Eve much more dynamic. And more sinks are always good!
Right now everything seems so static and fixed. Highsec grinds along without the need to interact with the game and Null is stuck at place where the biggest dogs can control how big any new dogs get. Unfortunately, I think being able to change to sec status of a system could prove too disruptive. The comment about don't fly in the disrupted areas doesn't work since any spot can be disrupted at any time and this could lead to issues like highsec islands or lowsec spots that interrupt trade traffic. That goes beyond breaking the foundations of any one alliance, also, while players can move, infrastructure can't. By having the ability to change the sec status of a system you interfere with how POSes and PI (more specifically, customs offices) operate.
I can see more harm than good coming from this. That's all before you get into pissing off the playerbase and reducing the population of EvE.
At the very least, you shouldn't have too much effect on sec status, so if you could bribe concord to step their game down, only the fringe systems actually drop from their protection (or gain it), the core systems would only suffer a reduced response time. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:While the US may consider corporations people, they lack anatomical features that would result in a mound of soft flesh laced heavily with nerves from which I may go and apply sufficient pressure to cause hematoma. Therefore I suggest that all such grouping of people should be made to have critical must protect infrastructure that they must actively defend. The loss of said infrastructure should result in the immediate disbandment of the corporation and forfeiture of any all assets in but not limited to corporation hangars within stations, POSes, market orders on their behalf, S&I jobs and contributory sovereignty. This will at once enable the so called golden BB effect as done by smaller corporations, but it will also force the wars of aggression so necessary to the proper and right functioning of the nullsec ecosystem. As such I move that the health for sov structures should be reduced to 10% of current values and be made to require constant maintenance starting at an approximate ISK value of 50 million per month and scaling on an exponential curve based on the activities of its members as defined by their Crest. Sovereignty is pretty expensive to hold now; https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide And as for EHP they go down easy enough considering the DPS that can be applied. Check out dotlan, they are changing hands every day.
I do think that sovereignty out in null is too powerful as far as protecting your resource extraction. It would be great if there was a way to steal moon goo or to hanger up out there so that reds could rat and plex in enemy space.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:Pohbis wrote:You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue. We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve? We don't have a PvP immunity now. There's just a cost factor that discourages unsanctioned PvP in certain areas. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote: I can see more harm than good coming from this. That's all before you get into pissing off the playerbase and reducing the population of EvE.
.
Eve players are the most pissed off player base in the history of the gaming industry! I don't think pissing them off anymore will hurt subs. Hell, I don't even think it possible =-)
Re POS'es they are one of the points that could be balanced, as in off limits to a system wide dec.
It would be disruptive, but "harmful"? Idk about that, there would be some lost production and a few tears, but so what, its not like the rocks wont spawn again tomorrow. And think of the challenge! Outsmarting gankers and griefers and sharks, moving away form their stupid wardec and causing them a loss just for buying it. A new thing that players have to figure out, both sides, the bears and the sharks.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Die Unknown
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 13:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Die Unknown wrote:Pohbis wrote:You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue. We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve? We don't have a PvP immunity now. There's just a cost factor that discourages unsanctioned PvP in certain areas.
I've been waiting for someone to say this. Suicide ganks are expensive and are limited by sec status. During a prolonged war effort, this mechanic should not be the only option on the table to disrupt enemy supply lines. Also, unless you are autopiloting, it's quite easy to avoid being suicided. |
Vexen Lyre
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'd like to hear an explanation for why an act of premeditated murder constitutes a war or why a galactic citizenry would put up with a corrupt police state that doesn't protect them. Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
279
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 14:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Die Unknown wrote:Pohbis wrote:You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.
It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.
I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue. We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve? No, we don't need more options.
You might not like your options, but I am sure the enemy JF pilot isn't exactly thrilled about his job either.
Logistics isn't about having fun. Neither should interdiction be.
However, you do have an option. Try shooting the stuff that comes through the bridge, not the bridge itself.
Or, gank the NPC jump freighters. Are you telling us disrupting enemy logistics should be free? |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
905
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
You are looking past the fact that if EVE was real life, real people would really be able to make arrangements with corporations that are 100% protected by Concord's laws of civilization (aka NPC corporations)
So for all of EVE's lack luster and over simplified features, this feature is actually on par with realism. Thus, your post fails.
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Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
1202
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 15:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:translation "i want to gank freighter pilots, in high sec, without penalty"
Thats pretty much exactly how I read that post. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
78
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 15:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vexen Lyre wrote:I'd like to hear an explanation for why an act of premeditated murder constitutes a war or why a galactic citizenry would put up with a corrupt police state that doesn't protect them.
Because the cost for putting up with corruption is far less than the cost of removing it. Same as RL.
As for murder, well, in the case of pod pilots there is no such thing. And I guess non-pod pilots just don't matter enough for anyone to care.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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