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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:52:00 -
[61] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?
Whether this is a "good idea" is the entire point of posting it. And, I made 8 points in the thread, not just one. Sure, some of the ideas are a little far fetched. Such as the system movement restriction and the module restriction. Please feel free to point out how YOU think they are not good.
As far as restricting new players... There are plenty of things restricting new players. Skills being one of them. A new player cannot use a battleship. Or a freighter. I don't see these things keeping the playerbase down. In fact, it is an incentive for them to be more active in the game.
Perhaps there needs to be different types of NPC corporations out there. Right now we have two types, true NPC and the FW variants. The FW weren't always in the game and CCP found a way to make it work. Who are you or I to say that there shouldn't be a third type of NPC corp? That is the point of this post.
Sure, my OP might not be the best. But, you have to start somewhere.
I'll ask the same thing I did another poster:
Do you think ALL my ideas are bad? Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
|

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2827
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?
And yes, I read the whole post, it still comes off as this way. In the end you're making things ridiculous for new players for the sake of stopping oldbies from taking advantage. Come up with an alternative that won't screw legitimate players over. NPC corps don't really benefit new players at all. Newbies have access to the least EHP (making suiciding them trivial) and enabling the "oldbies" to put their cumulative wealth into increasing their ISK farming yield, slowly devaluing the purchasing power of ISK/commodities per unit, gradually decreasing the effective wealth a newbie can generate. Newbies are also the least familiar with the PVP evasion techniques that oldbies use regularly. They benefit the 5-year vet in an NPC corp mining out the rookie system belts because of the GM's anti-rookie harassing policy, not the rookies who the belts were intended for.
My alternative is simply remove the protections afforded to NPC corps to all equally. Make individuals deccable as if they were one-man corps. What could be more fair then total equality? Nobody is being punished, nobody singled out or afforded special treatment, everyone on an even footing. |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:So, anything else on what my post was about? Do you disagree with everything? Do you feel that the system is working 100% fine and you can see NO OPPORTUNITY to add positive change to the current system?
Thank you. Quite honestly, and not meant as an offence, does your list come across as fascist. There are plenty of benefits for not being in an NPC corporation and anyone who does not respond to the positive reinforcement will likely not respond positively to your belt whipping, but quit. If EVE drives you into believing such radical limitations are necessary then you might want to take a break from the game for a while. Again, no offence intended, but with your best interest in mind.
Wow. A personal attack on my beliefs that exist outside of the game. Very nice to see. Also, "offense". Yeah I know. Grammar Police. But hey, why not? You already don't care to discuss the post and just want to make accusations based on a poorly formed opinion about me in real life.
No. EVE doesn't drive me to believe such "radical limitations" are necessary. I don't think they are radical. You do, and that is okay. Please keep your personal opinions of how I choose to live my personal life to yourself. This thread is not about your opinion of how I live my life outside of EVE. You are most likely not qualified to give life advice, so I will ask you to refrain from these types of posts in the future. Or, I'll try your tactic: If my post drives you to make personal attacks on my character then perhaps you should log out of the forums. No offenSe intended, but with your best interest in mind.
Thank you. |

Whitehound
619
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:... Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
I do have an idea. We should make a huge statue of you and set it up in Jita next to the monument. Each time we are unhappy with the game do we fly into Jita and shoot at it. 
Sounds funs, doesn't it? SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:... Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
I do have an idea. We should make a huge statue of you and set it up in Jita next to the monument. Each time we are unhappy with the game do we fly into Jita and shoot at it.  Sounds funs, doesn't it?
No comment on the actual "idea". But I would ask you to make your own thread that contains your own ideas instead of hijacking mine.
Thank you. |

Lovely Dumplings
Lambda Mining
59
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
My only question to those who wish to place restrictions on NPC corp activities: "Are you willing to accept these same people into your corp when they wish to join the "real" EVE? This includes all different types of playstyles, et al"
|

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lovely Dumplings wrote:My only question to those who wish to place restrictions on NPC corp activities: "Are you willing to accept these same people into your corp when they wish to join the "real" EVE? This includes all different types of playstyles, et al"
A valid question. And, not sure. But a thoughtful screening process, which should be in place in any good PRC, would be very helpful.
Thank you.
|

Whitehound
619
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:... Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
I do have an idea. We should make a huge statue of you and set it up in Jita next to the monument. Each time we are unhappy with the game do we fly into Jita and shoot at it.  Sounds funs, doesn't it? No comment on the actual "idea". But I would ask you to make your own thread that contains your own ideas instead of hijacking mine. Thank you. You've asked ("...think of ANYTHING...") and you got an answer. I think such a statue makes for a great stress relief. You have no idea how stress can transform one into an irrational, blind and selfish monster! SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
My alternative is simply remove the protections afforded to NPC corps to all equally. Make individuals deccable as if they were one-man corps. What could be more fair then total equality? Nobody is being punished, nobody singled out or afforded special treatment, everyone on an even footing.
Nice. I think it is a great idea to be able to petition CONCORD for the ability to wage war on an individual.
But, I would also add in the need for a "third type" of NPC corp. Because this thread was never about "screwing over the new players".
Thank you.
|

iskflakes
313
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
Reserved. - |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:... Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
I do have an idea. We should make a huge statue of you and set it up in Jita next to the monument. Each time we are unhappy with the game do we fly into Jita and shoot at it.  Sounds funs, doesn't it? No comment on the actual "idea". But I would ask you to make your own thread that contains your own ideas instead of hijacking mine. Thank you. You've asked ("...think of ANYTHING...") and you got an answer. I think such a statue makes for a great stress relief. You have no idea how stress can transform one into an irrational, blind and selfish monster!
You have done my work for me by pointing out your idea does not follow the original theme or idea in the thread. This thread is not about stress relief. Please stay on topic. I shouldn't have to ask this of a respectful player. But, I understand that "new and radical ideas" might cause distress to someone. I apologize that the theme of this thread if upsetting you and offer my humble advice to refrain from visiting this thread in the future.
Thank you.
|

Lovely Dumplings
Lambda Mining
59
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:
A valid question. And, not sure. But a thoughtful screening process, which should be in place in any good PRC, would be very helpful.
Thank you.
Not a problem, and glad to give some thought on it. I see NPC corps as a "NIMBY" problem. For those unfamiliar with the term, it means "Not In My Backyard", and often comes up when, in RL, things like landfills and powerplants come up.
Just saying "I wouldn't let em in they can go somehwere ELSE!" seems, to me, like saying "Eww no build that powerplant in another area!" NPC corps, as is, are a necessary evil, abused by some, that hopefully a good solution can be found for. |

Whitehound
619
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:You have done my work for me by pointing out your idea does not follow the original theme or idea in the thread. This thread is not about stress relief. Please stay on topic. ... Again, you have asked, not me. I only followed your request! SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lovely Dumplings wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:
A valid question. And, not sure. But a thoughtful screening process, which should be in place in any good PRC, would be very helpful.
Thank you.
Not a problem, and glad to give some thought on it. I see NPC corps as a "NIMBY" problem. For those unfamiliar with the term, it means "Not In My Backyard", and often comes up when, in RL, things like landfills and powerplants come up. Just saying "I wouldn't let em in they can go somehwere ELSE!" seems, to me, like saying "Eww no build that powerplant in another area!" NPC corps, as is, are a necessary evil, abused by some, that hopefully a good solution can be found for.
Absolutely. I agree that there is abuse in the NPC corp situation. Not ALL players are doing it. But, there needs to be some investigating in to some things that can be changed or implemented into the current system.
If anything, my original post is my flag waving saying, "hey! i don't agree with this!". And, the point of the thread is to find others who feel the same way. And at least the hopeful generation of positive discussion on the topic, even with those who disagree with the ideas.
Pipe dreams maybe. But you have to start somewhere.
Thank you.
|

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:You have done my work for me by pointing out your idea does not follow the original theme or idea in the thread. This thread is not about stress relief. Please stay on topic. ... Again, you have asked, not me. I only followed your request!
If that is your true stance, then follow this request: move along to another thread, please.
I trust you are a man of your word?
Thank you. |

Vexen Lyre
Serious Player Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
I'm sort of tempted to put my mining alt in a single player corp to confirm my theory that his gank avoidance strategy applies equally to wardec avoidance. ie. no visibility no wardec.
but then i can't really be arsed as there's no tax benefit. Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant |

Whitehound
619
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:I trust you are a man of your word? Is this another question you want me to answer? SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote: Whether this is a "good idea" is the entire point of posting it. And, I made 8 points in the thread, not just one. Sure, some of the ideas are a little far fetched. Such as the system movement restriction and the module restriction. Please feel free to point out how YOU think they are not good.
As far as restricting new players... There are plenty of things restricting new players. Skills being one of them. A new player cannot use a battleship. Or a freighter. I don't see these things keeping the playerbase down. In fact, it is an incentive for them to be more active in the game.
Perhaps there needs to be different types of NPC corporations out there. Right now we have two types, true NPC and the FW variants. The FW weren't always in the game and CCP found a way to make it work. Who are you or I to say that there shouldn't be a third type of NPC corp? That is the point of this post.
Sure, my OP might not be the best. But, you have to start somewhere.
I'll ask the same thing I did another poster:
Do you think ALL my ideas are bad? Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?
Thank you.
Restricting skills is obscenely different from restricting them from doing pretty much.. well... anything really but the bare bones of the game. And yes, I don't agree with ANY of those ideas. High sec is meant to be a place of relative safety. That's how it was designed. Corp wars are the exception, not the rule. And once they travel to low-sec or null sec, well, you can do what you want with them, just have to be prepared for the consequences in low sec. The overall design of the system really is working as intended. How would I suggest fixing it?
Well, working towards making the bounty system harder to abuse would be a good start... something to make it actually profitable to gank high bounty targets in high sec, since its been shown pretty well that if you have a really large bounty, there's usually a reason. Maybe make being under hauling contract to a wardecced corp temporarily turn you into a war target until the contract is complete, or even a little bit after. There would be work arounds to this too though unfortunately with alts.
|

Demolishar
United Aggression
772
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
Reserved.
PAGE 4 IS STILL GOOD RIGHT?! |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:22:00 -
[80] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote: Restricting skills is obscenely different from restricting them from doing pretty much.. well... anything really but the bare bones of the game.
I can see your point. Skill based restriction is literally based on time invested into the game. My suggested restrictions are based on choices. Something this game advertises as a huge part of the game. So, I think that [some of] my ideas are a decent stepping stone to a bigger discussion.
Aren Madigan wrote: And yes, I don't agree with ANY of those ideas.
Not ANY? Not even the first two? You feel that players should be able to place bounties on another player while in a NPC corp? You feel that a NPC player should be able to place a bounty on an entire PRC ?
Aren Madigan wrote: High sec is meant to be a place of relative safety. That's how it was designed.
This really wasn't about High Sec.
Furthermore, on release, no system was safe. Hardly "the way it was designed". Please don't take this the wrong way, but read up on the history of the game. CONCORD wasn't always around to protect us.
|

Whitehound
620
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:23:00 -
[81] - Quote
Reserved.
WTS: Sniper spots on page 2, 3 & 5. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:Aren Madigan wrote: Restricting skills is obscenely different from restricting them from doing pretty much.. well... anything really but the bare bones of the game.
I can see your point. Skill based restriction is literally based on time invested into the game. My suggested restrictions are based on choices. Something this game advertises as a huge part of the game. So, I think that [some of] my ideas are a decent stepping stone to a bigger discussion. Aren Madigan wrote: And yes, I don't agree with ANY of those ideas.
Not ANY? Not even the first two? You feel that players should be able to place bounties on another player while in a NPC corp? You feel that a NPC player should be able to place a bounty on an entire PRC ? Aren Madigan wrote: High sec is meant to be a place of relative safety. That's how it was designed.
This really wasn't about High Sec. Furthermore, on release, no system was safe. Hardly "the way it was designed". Please don't take this the wrong way, but read up on the history of the game. CONCORD wasn't always around to protect us. Thank you.
Its the way its designed now though, and for a reason. I can imagine the kind of ganking that went on that really made growth near impossible for the game... seen the result of that kind of thing from EverQuest's PVP servers back in the early days of MMOs. Doesn't make for a healthy game, at all. And yes, I do believe that NPC corp players should be free to place bounties.. New Highsec Order being a prime example of why. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2828
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:30:00 -
[83] - Quote
The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. |

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:Aren Madigan wrote: Restricting skills is obscenely different from restricting them from doing pretty much.. well... anything really but the bare bones of the game.
I can see your point. Skill based restriction is literally based on time invested into the game. My suggested restrictions are based on choices. Something this game advertises as a huge part of the game. So, I think that [some of] my ideas are a decent stepping stone to a bigger discussion. Aren Madigan wrote: And yes, I don't agree with ANY of those ideas.
Not ANY? Not even the first two? You feel that players should be able to place bounties on another player while in a NPC corp? You feel that a NPC player should be able to place a bounty on an entire PRC ? Aren Madigan wrote: High sec is meant to be a place of relative safety. That's how it was designed.
This really wasn't about High Sec. Furthermore, on release, no system was safe. Hardly "the way it was designed". Please don't take this the wrong way, but read up on the history of the game. CONCORD wasn't always around to protect us. Thank you. Its the way its designed now though, and for a reason. I can imagine the kind of ganking that went on that really made growth near impossible for the game... seen the result of that kind of thing from EverQuest's PVP servers back in the early days of MMOs. Doesn't make for a healthy game, at all. And yes, I do believe that NPC corp players should be free to place bounties.. New Highsec Order being a prime example of why.
New Highsec Order uses NPC corp players to place their bounties. Fact.
I also feel that players should be able to 'wardec' an individual player.
Thank you.
|

Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day.
That's also something I agree needs to be changed... perhaps by expanding kill rights? Allowing people to hand them off to a chosen bounty hunter, that kind of thing. Maybe setup to be less an eye for an eye. That might be something warranting its own discussion though to go over flaws and advantages of such changes. |

Whitehound
620
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. They have their own corps and alliance. Check for CODE. please. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3029
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
Sol Weinstein wrote:There are many aspects of this game that are ruined, just ruined, by actions of players in NPC corporations. The bounty thing is one of the major ones. Hopefully, someone out there will agree that the leash needs to be tightened on most of the people that use the NPC Corporation Exploit when performing harmful actions towards another player or corporation.
What problem are you trying to solve? You claim that the bounty system is "ruined" by NPC corp players. How? What is the problem you are trying to solve?
What is "the NPC Corporation Exploit"? I hae never heard of it, and you are presenting this term as if it should be common knowledge. What is the problem you are trying to solve. Pretend that I am a gormless twit, so you will need to provide illustrative examples of why it is bad for a rookie in an NPC corp to be able to place a bounty on the capsuleer who blew up his wreathe containing all his worldly possessions.
Why is it bad for NPC corp members to mine or harvest ice?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2828
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. They have their own corps and alliance. Check for CODE. please. CODE wasn't always around, check James' turning wardec evasion in on itself here please.
|

Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Sol Weinstein wrote:There are many aspects of this game that are ruined, just ruined, by actions of players in NPC corporations. The bounty thing is one of the major ones. Hopefully, someone out there will agree that the leash needs to be tightened on most of the people that use the NPC Corporation Exploit when performing harmful actions towards another player or corporation. What problem are you trying to solve? You claim that the bounty system is "ruined" by NPC corp players. How? What is the problem you are trying to solve? What is "the NPC Corporation Exploit"? I hae never heard of it, and you are presenting this term as if it should be common knowledge. What is the problem you are trying to solve. Pretend that I am a gormless twit, so you will need to provide illustrative examples of why it is bad for a rookie in an NPC corp to be able to place a bounty on the capsuleer who blew up his wreathe containing all his worldly possessions. Why is it bad for NPC corp members to mine or harvest ice?
Trying to solve the NPC Exploit problem and the issues it creates. Yes, I suppose it is my term. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit into your world. It's the term I use.
Your initial tone is a bit aggressive so I am just going to ignore the rest of of it and just move along. I will take your advice and assume you are a "gormless twit" and realize that I probably can't make you see the nature of the post.
Thank you. |

Whitehound
621
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 02:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Whitehound wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. They have their own corps and alliance. Check for CODE. please. CODE wasn't always around, check James' turning wardec evasion in on itself here please. Well, thank you, but I do already know about it, and James himself does not do anything and it is his good right to stay in an NPC corporation or to create as well as disband a corporation. He is not your problem nor are NPC corporations one.
One can always create a corp, stick an alt in and place bounties over it.
To be honest with you, Sol Weinstein could be James 315, for all I know. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
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