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xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
As we all know by now we see Freighters and jump freighters in Highsec,lowsec,nullsec,Wh space always getting blasted to nothing,
the idea behind, moveing a whole world and then some is a cool idea, But what about cost vrs security ??
T1 Freighter hull 1.5 bill. *before mineral prices went thro roof 800 mill. JF about 6.5 bill ish and up, havent checked their prices recently but seen them in that area.
Freighters juicy targets for suicide gankers, Same with JF, in the odd situations.
Push them off a gate with mach's *offgrid* then kill it.
So why no mid,or low slots CCP adding them would bring much less problems for the players that complain about looseing them. Your still going to prolly loose it if suicide ganked, but why not make it harder for the person trying to gank it ?
I myself havent lost a Freighter or a JF, So not sure what it feels like.
So Question is will CCP help the Freighter,Jump Freighter's out by allowing them Low Slots, Mid slots. In most movies you see freighters can even use defensive systems *guns,drones,tank etc,
It would look alot cooler if you seen killmails where a bunch of pilots tried suicide ganking a freighter but instead got owned by it. That would be better then kiling a Drake with a badger II. :D
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
229
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
What you pay in a freighter is his massive cargo space not his ability to self defense or kill people.
If you want to give guns and tank to freighters then I want a freighter-sized cargo on my hurricane.
|
Giddeon Finnk
Ironwood Administrative Quorum
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not sure about giving the freighter actual slots; but i would like to see a ship hangar so i can move my rigged / fitted / assembled ships around in my freighter. |
Renzo Ruderi
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just a note, "Vrs" used several times in the title made my face hurt. Why not just use "vs" or "versus" like the rest of everyone, ever? |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Renzo Ruderi wrote:Just a note, "Vrs" used several times in the title made my face hurt. Why not just use "vs" or "versus" like the rest of everyone, ever?
Why ask why, others do what they do. when they clearly want to do it another way, just to make you ask why this why that ?
|
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
557
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Posting in a not so stealthy "Nerf Suicide Ganking" thread.
You realize you contradicted yourself when you said to give them slots to make suicide ganking difficult, and then said that it wouldn't actually prevent people from suicide ganking? So...your point is then to what? Lestatra: Eve is now fully committed to pvp . |
luZk
x13 Whores in space
99
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns..
Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya.
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1052
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again. |
Zilero
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya.
Want to try that without:
a) Being all tank and no damage b) Slaveset c) Legion booster
and most importantly:
d) Without immediately deaggressing and docking up.
In other words: Come back when you have grown a pair |
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Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
253
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Suicide ganking in general i way higher than it used to be but that's a part of EVE now.
Freighters are defenceless yes, but just because it fits 700k m3+ doesn't mean you need to lead all that space with items worth billions. If you're using it to move valuable loot keep it down to 2mil or under, avoid common gank systems. If you need to move billions of ISK worth of stuff take the time to do more than one trip and save your freighter and ISK or use blockade runners for the small stuff.
My alt uses a Charon and the only time she has ever used the entire space was while moving stront and POS fuel from a friend, the total value was less than 500mil. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1837
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
You're paying those high amount of isk for the cargo capacity, not for anything else. Why do some people keep suggesting that more ship have to be able to do everything is beyond me.
You don't pay for a tank so it can have an AC or dvd player and leather seats do you? you pay for one for it's firepower, armor and regardless of the lack of 'comfort' when driving one, they're still ridiculously expensive. "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
Zilero
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote: I myself havent lost a Freighter or a JF, So not sure what it feels like.
Also, I would like to question the validity of this statement. Why post about this if you lost nothing?
|
luZk
x13 Whores in space
99
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya.
By all means allow this man to deadspace fit his freighter please CPP. He convinced me it's the right thing to do. |
Whitehound
655
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
TL;DR: Freighters are fine. JFs could use some love.
You could not fight off a gank squad even if you had fit weapons onto it.
The eHP of freighters seems fine, because not only did freighters become more expensive, but all the ships including those used in ganks have and so nothing really has changed here.
The cost of Jump Freighters - or their eHP - might need to be looked at. JFs can move large distances in a single jump making it pretty save to move stuff with them, but not within high-sec. One could gank JF pilots simply to cause them a loss in which case the ratio of "cost of gank squad" versus "cost of JF" seems unnecessarily high in comparison to other ships. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
96
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Giddeon Finnk wrote:Not sure about giving the freighter actual slots; but i would like to see a ship hangar so i can move my rigged / fitted / assembled ships around in my freighter.
Just give the ships to an alt then set up a courier contract with your main to move them. The only thing to watch out for is what's in the cargo hold of the ships (can only be ammo and charges from memory).
Not had to do this for a while but I assume it still works
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Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
441
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Instead catering to stupid, as many people ask CCP, like yourself.
Why not grow a brain?
Move 10bil worth of crap for corp for "X" reason. Bring 6 Basi's, 6 BB, and scout.
Oh look, you can jam out the gankers within 2secs instead of the 8secs it takes Concord.
Nope, too complicated...
CCP, can we has fix for stupid? *insert witty saying here* twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1273
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:As we all know by now we see Freighters and jump freighters in Highsec,lowsec,nullsec,Wh space always getting blasted to nothing,
the idea behind, moveing a whole world and then some is a cool idea, But what about cost vrs security ??
T1 Freighter hull 1.5 bill. *before mineral prices went thro roof 800 mill. JF about 6.5 bill ish and up, havent checked their prices recently but seen them in that area.
Freighters juicy targets for suicide gankers, Same with JF, in the odd situations.
Push them off a gate with mach's *offgrid* then kill it.
So why no mid,or low slots CCP adding them would bring much less problems for the players that complain about looseing them. Your still going to prolly loose it if suicide ganked, but why not make it harder for the person trying to gank it ?
I myself havent lost a Freighter or a JF, So not sure what it feels like.
So Question is will CCP help the Freighter,Jump Freighter's out by allowing them Low Slots, Mid slots. In most movies you see freighters can even use defensive systems *guns,drones,tank etc,
It would look alot cooler if you seen killmails where a bunch of pilots tried suicide ganking a freighter but instead got owned by it. That would be better then kiling a Drake with a badger II. :D
If you're moving the whole world, you may want to get an escort for it, or stop complaining that people are taking out your unescorted pinata's.
|
Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
166
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Freight Club or wtf they are called, have excellent advice on how not to move your goods |
Joneleth Rein
23
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'm gonna say that if you think a lot of freighters/jf are destroyed,you'r hanging around the wrong people. Move away, like nowz and park your freighters until you see what you are doing wrong.
Spider Pig!-áSpider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig. |
|
March rabbit
Aliastra
518
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zilero wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya. In other words: Come back when you have grown a pair quote for truth. see ya
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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1084
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you want a hauler with slots, use an orca or industrial. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13934
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Giving a freighter med, low and rig slots, means a nerf to the freighter.
No combination of modules, would give you the freighter we currently have. It is optimised for it's role, you're asking for a de-optimisation.
Want the same cargo space as before? The speed and EHP will be far lower. Want more EHP, then cargo space will be drastically reduced.
CCP already give you options to improve these ships, it's one of the reason this is called an MMO.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
373
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
I donno, you could always use a freight for moving big stuff rather than expensive stuff.
I'm yet to see many freighter kills where the cargo was things like ships\capital parts etc.
It's always a huge collection of mods and bits worth billions, stuff that could have been moved in a transport\t1 industrial\shuttle. |
Max Doobie
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Posting in a not so stealthy "Nerf Suicide Ganking" thread.
You realize you contradicted yourself when you said to give them slots to make suicide ganking difficult, and then said that it wouldn't actually prevent people from suicide ganking? So...your point is then to what?
Making something difficult... Making something impossible to do....
...2 different things....read carefully... |
Max Doobie
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again.
How exactly is asking for a ship to have a bit more tank complaining about PVP?
|
sbreach
Black Rain Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wonder if there are corps out therr specialising in freightor escort. Seems it could be something profitable. Just have a few logistics about and ewar, hold out long enough for concord. Get some new order type guys to bump the freightor bumpers. Then if people refuse escort, gank them to create demand for your services.
Freighter passes. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13934
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again. How exactly is asking for a ship to have a bit more tank complaining about PVP? Of course it's about PvP. Eve is PvP centric and PvP isn't an acronym for combat.
Also, he's actually asking for a nerf to the freighter.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Chenlab Delta
Wise Guys Tribal Band
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solo freight need to die and die hard!!!!!! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
231
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 12:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Point is:
freigthers and jfreighters are designed for corporations and alliances logistic, so are suposed to be used with proper support, accordignly to this role.
If one want to use them for lonely trading it's fine, but cannot complain if the ships doesn't always perfectly fits this (unproper) use.
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country
5029
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 13:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote: Point is:
freigthers and jfreighters are designed for corporations and alliances logistic, so are suposed to be used with proper support, accordignly to this role.
If one want to use them for lonely trading it's fine, but cannot complain if the ships doesn't always perfectly fits this (unproper) use.
Its perfectly fine solo so long as you dont stuff 20 bil in the hold. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
212
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 13:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
The only "module" I want to see, anywhere, is the "brass pole and champagne room" module.
FFS, I want to be "Jabba the Giant Talking Space Slug" and have scantily clad amusements dancing around my chambers instead of swimming around in recycled pod-goo... sheeesh.
|
Dr No Game
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 14:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zilero wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya. Want to try that without: a) Being all tank and no damage b) Slaveset c) Legion booster and most importantly: d) Without immediately deaggressing and docking up. In other words: Come back when you have grown a pair Really? You make a career wardeccing easy HiSec targets in Jita and you're telling someone else to grow a pair? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3363
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 14:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: Point is:
freigthers and jfreighters are designed for corporations and alliances logistic, so are suposed to be used with proper support, accordignly to this role.
If one want to use them for lonely trading it's fine, but cannot complain if the ships doesn't always perfectly fits this (unproper) use.
Its perfectly fine solo so long as you dont stuff 20 bil in the hold. 15 Bil might also be a bit too much. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
830
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 14:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: Point is:
freigthers and jfreighters are designed for corporations and alliances logistic, so are suposed to be used with proper support, accordignly to this role.
If one want to use them for lonely trading it's fine, but cannot complain if the ships doesn't always perfectly fits this (unproper) use.
Its perfectly fine solo so long as you dont stuff 20 bil in the hold. 15 Bil might also be a bit too much.
Not with 10 logis, two double webbers, a command ship or two, and God on your side. The Margin Trading Scam: If you fell for it, it's your own damned fault. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Remiel Pollard
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
1327
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 14:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:As we all know by now we see Freighters and jump freighters in Highsec,lowsec,nullsec,Wh space always getting blasted to nothing,
the idea behind, moveing a whole world and then some is a cool idea, But what about cost vrs security ??
T1 Freighter hull 1.5 bill. *before mineral prices went thro roof 800 mill. JF about 6.5 bill ish and up, havent checked their prices recently but seen them in that area.
Freighters juicy targets for suicide gankers, Same with JF, in the odd situations.
Push them off a gate with mach's *offgrid* then kill it.
So why no mid,or low slots CCP adding them would bring much less problems for the players that complain about looseing them. Your still going to prolly loose it if suicide ganked, but why not make it harder for the person trying to gank it ?
I myself havent lost a Freighter or a JF, So not sure what it feels like.
So Question is will CCP help the Freighter,Jump Freighter's out by allowing them Low Slots, Mid slots. In most movies you see freighters can even use defensive systems *guns,drones,tank etc,
It would look alot cooler if you seen killmails where a bunch of pilots tried suicide ganking a freighter but instead got owned by it. That would be better then kiling a Drake with a badger II. :D
Maybe what all those loose freighters need then is to be tightened up a bit.
Or do you mean loose as in "who let the dogs out?" loose? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
441
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: Point is:
freigthers and jfreighters are designed for corporations and alliances logistic, so are suposed to be used with proper support, accordignly to this role.
If one want to use them for lonely trading it's fine, but cannot complain if the ships doesn't always perfectly fits this (unproper) use.
Its perfectly fine solo so long as you dont stuff 20 bil in the hold. 15 Bil might also be a bit too much. I can't justify shoving 5bil into the damn thing... *insert witty saying here* twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Its perfectly fine solo so long as you dont stuff 20 bil in the hold. 15 Bil might also be a bit too much. I can't justify shoving 5bil into the damn thing... Well, yeah, we were going to next laugh at someone losing 10bil in PLEX, but sure, just jump to 5bil Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
596
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2902
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders DCU II you would have to activate every system jump, which is bullcrap
I think it would go like this:
cargohold expanders (faster trip = more $$$) nanofiber hull (faster trip = more $$$) inertia stabilizers warp core stabilizer dcu II |
|
Andracin
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
58
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders
Or warp core stabs...but I would think a fair number might opt for inertia stabs as well.... |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
213
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders
Assuming some changes to CPU and POWER were made, I'd go with one high slot and see how many folks slam in an "Ice Stripper" and park in an ice field -- guaranteed there would be at least a few lemmings.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3474
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders DCU II you would have to activate every system jump, which is bullcrap I think it would go like this: cargohold expanders (faster trip = more $$$) nanofiber hull (faster trip = more $$$) inertia stabilizers warp core stabilizer dcu II This man is correct. If we were given a low slot on freighters it would be at the cost of cargo space... and even if that were not the case most people would simply opt to go for more cargo space.
Warp stabs in particular would only help you against the most inept gank squad imaginable. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
278
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders Most would fit cargo extenders. DC II would require effort and atk hauling. CCP can't fix stupid and afk. Remove insurance. |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Suicide ganking in general i way higher than it used to be but that's a part of EVE now.
Freighters are defenceless yes, but just because it fits 700k m3+ doesn't mean you need to lead all that space with items worth billions. If you're using it to move valuable loot keep it down to 2mil or under, avoid common gank systems. If you need to move billions of ISK worth of stuff take the time to do more than one trip and save your freighter and ISK or use blockade runners for the small stuff.
My alt uses a Charon and the only time she has ever used the entire space was while moving stront and POS fuel from a friend, the total value was less than 500mil.
LMAO at this "If you're using it to move valuable loot keep it down to 2mil or under" Are you kidding? 2 mill? really? Then you dont need a freighter. Use you noob ship
People should be using the ships for what they are designed for. People can gank you if you have 2mill or 2 bill. They may not have the ability to see whats in the container.
People exploiting flawed game design (bumping) for profit. Fix the poor game mechanic and you fix the problem.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
5035
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 20:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:LMAO at this "If you're using it to move valuable loot keep it down to 2mil or under" Are you kidding? 2 mill? really? Then you dont need a freighter. Use your noob ship People should be using the ships for what they are designed for. People can gank you if you have 2mill or 2 bill. They may not have the ability to see whats in the container. People exploiting flawed game design (bumping) for profit. Fix the poor game mechanic and you fix the problem.
I may be wrong here (I'm not) but I belive he ment to say 2 bil.
Also this is not exploiting poor game mechanics, It is exploiting peoples stupidity. Piracy is not and never has been an exploit. |
Zilero
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 20:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dr No Game wrote:Zilero wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya. Want to try that without: a) Being all tank and no damage b) Slaveset c) Legion booster and most importantly: d) Without immediately deaggressing and docking up. In other words: Come back when you have grown a pair Really? You make a career wardeccing easy HiSec targets in Jita and you're telling someone else to grow a pair?
Do the math on 800k EHP tech 3 ships. In order to kill it you need an estimated EFFECTIVE DPS of around 20,000.
Estimated times after undocking DPS to kill an 800k EHP ship:
10 seconds to lock / drop drones 10 seconds to get into optimal range 40 seconds left to shoot
In those 40 seconds you need to do 800k worth of damage.... so 20.000 DPS that actually hits. Considering battleships hit Tech 3s really badly you probably need 40,000 DPS worth of battleship DPS.... or 25-30,000 worth of DPS from Battlecruisers (that hit slightly better). Also, if the ship in question is a proteus, that DPS better not be kinetic damage....
This amounts to roughly 30 battleships or 20-25 Battlecruisers.
Unless you are fairly bad at counting how many people can shoot you in local I would say undocking a ship like that is akin to having no balls. |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 21:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:LMAO at this "If you're using it to move valuable loot keep it down to 2mil or under" Are you kidding? 2 mill? really? Then you dont need a freighter. Use your noob ship People should be using the ships for what they are designed for. People can gank you if you have 2mill or 2 bill. They may not have the ability to see whats in the container. People exploiting flawed game design (bumping) for profit. Fix the poor game mechanic and you fix the problem. I may be wrong here (I'm not) but I belive he ment to say 2 bil. Also this is not exploiting poor game mechanics, It is exploiting peoples stupidity. Piracy is not and never has been an exploit.
Yea i m sure they meant for ships to be bumped repeatable with little or no defense against it and bumping causing no damage to either ship because thats a real world dynamic they forgot to program into the game.
You and people like you never fall short of of trying to justify reasons to take advantage of exploits.
No reason why this exploit can not be fixed. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2175
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders Most would fit cargo extenders. DC II would require effort and atk hauling. CCP can't fix stupid and afk.
Nor should they try to fix stupid. You pay a price for stupid in this game.
That said....
The smart people would make good use of it. And since this game is about rewarding the clever and punishing the morons, I see nothing wrong with enabling a mechanic to allow a clever pilot an advantage. Be it adding a slot or freighter specific skills to train.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
baltec1
Bat Country
5035
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Yea i m sure they meant for ships to be bumped repeatable with little or no defense against it and bumping causing no damage to either ship because thats a real world dynamic they forgot to program into the game.
You and people like you never fall short of of trying to justify reasons to take advantage of exploits.
No reason why this exploit can not be fixed.
Its a tactic to stop people from entering warp. It is also the only way to get a capital off a station/POS. CCP themselves have said this is fine and working as intended. If we had collision damage then Jita undock would be utter hell and fleets would be giant balls of fire. It is not an exploit, it is mechanics working as intended. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2176
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CCP themselves have said this is fine and working as intended.
You really believe that?
You should know by now that CCP says that something is 'working as intended' when they can't be arsed to fix it. It gets fixed when enough people start exploiting it. No sooner.
And it is always 'working as intended' right up to the patch that fixes it.
Remember the glorious days of nano HACs, ghost training, Hulkageddon and many more examples. All working as intended until CCP fixed them.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2912
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
ccp aren't going to buff noobships until you can run around with them with 80 plex in the hull safely, for the same reason they aren't going to 'buff freighters' overladen with loot. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2250
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
xxVastorxx wrote:As we all know by now we see Freighters and jump freighters in Highsec,lowsec,nullsec,Wh space always getting blasted to nothing,
the idea behind, moveing a whole world and then some is a cool idea, But what about cost vrs security ??
T1 Freighter hull 1.5 bill. *before mineral prices went thro roof 800 mill. JF about 6.5 bill ish and up, havent checked their prices recently but seen them in that area.
Freighters juicy targets for suicide gankers, Same with JF, in the odd situations.
Push them off a gate with mach's *offgrid* then kill it.
So why no mid,or low slots CCP adding them would bring much less problems for the players that complain about looseing them. Your still going to prolly loose it if suicide ganked, but why not make it harder for the person trying to gank it ?
I myself havent lost a Freighter or a JF, So not sure what it feels like.
So Question is will CCP help the Freighter,Jump Freighter's out by allowing them Low Slots, Mid slots. In most movies you see freighters can even use defensive systems *guns,drones,tank etc,
It would look alot cooler if you seen killmails where a bunch of pilots tried suicide ganking a freighter but instead got owned by it. That would be better then kiling a Drake with a badger II. :D
Oh look, this thread again. People have explained why giving freighters any kind of slot is a bad idea. I'll probably-ábe banned for this |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3482
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:CCP themselves have said this is fine and working as intended. You really believe that? You should know by now that CCP says that something is 'working as intended' when they can't be arsed to fix it. It gets fixed when enough people start exploiting it. No sooner. And it is always 'working as intended' right up to the patch that fixes it. Remember the glorious days of nano HACs, ghost training, Hulkageddon and many more examples. All working as intended until CCP fixed them. Mr Epeen
Well, in a perfect world CCP would probaby gladly make bumping more realistic. However the added calculations necessary to do so doesn't scale well and also require major reworking of undocking and fleet mechanics. So, for the moment, working as intended (as the other option isn't currently practical, and what we have now is workable).
Now this may all change with Tessellation, whereby such mechanics can be handled simply by the GPU. If/when that happens the mechanic may change... but until that time comes (if ever) then bumping is (for the time being, within our current limitations) working as intended. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2176
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:CCP themselves have said this is fine and working as intended. You really believe that? You should know by now that CCP says that something is 'working as intended' when they can't be arsed to fix it. It gets fixed when enough people start exploiting it. No sooner. And it is always 'working as intended' right up to the patch that fixes it. Remember the glorious days of nano HACs, ghost training, Hulkageddon and many more examples. All working as intended until CCP fixed them. Mr Epeen Well, in a perfect world CCP would probaby gladly make bumping more realistic. However the added calculations necessary to do so doesn't scale well and also require major reworking of undocking and fleet mechanics. So, for the moment, working as intended (as the other option isn't currently practical, and what we have now is workable). Now this may all change with Tessellation, whereby such mechanics can be handled simply by the GPU. If/when that happens the mechanic may change... but until that time comes (if ever) then bumping is (for the time being, within our current limitations) working as intended.
I can't disagree.
But I will call it 'working because they lack the ability to fix it' from now on.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
387
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
Want more tank? Give up cargospace, get an orca
Going AFK, can't be arsed to activate your DCII (or use a simple bot to activate it- oops did I say that?) then die, if you're not there to defend your ship, it should die. Its not as safe as it used to be (when it had unscannable compartments that never dropped loot)- but its still better
I do think freighters should get some modules slots to allow some customization (if needed, nerf their cargo, so that one still cant get cap ships into high sec- though you could also increase the size of caps)
Let the players choose between the mighty DC II that will make them extremely hard to gank, but requires them to activate it after each jump, or the cargohold expander that allows them to move more stuff... or the reinforced bulkheads for the safer(harder to gank) slow AFK hauling, to the nano for moe dangerous but faster AFK hauling, to Istabs for faster hauling with warp to zero's.
mids -prop mof for speed... or ecm for defense?
utility high for a cloak? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2915
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 22:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Just give freighters 1 PG and 0 cpu for their low slot they can choose between adaptive nano plating, regenerative plating, cargohold expander, inertia stab, nanofiber... |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1537
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 23:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Freighters cannot have rigs or low slots, as that would allow for expanded cargo, and allow for packaged capitals to be hauled into hisec.
But freighters could have high slots or mid slots. However this would help the shield tanks and not the armor tanks.
For what it is worth, I currently own 6 Charons, and occasionally own 2 Rhea. I find not being AFK and not making myself a tempting target to be my best defense. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
961
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 00:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again.
Oh look, tough talking null-sec pvpers' using NPC alts to move stuff again. This is not a signature. |
Charlepetit LaJoie
Trust Me Ltd
238
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 00:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Warning: I might not know beans.
Goods still seem to be moving steadily across the galaxy. I have not seen players in the Haulers Channel complaining that they are being driven out of business by freighter losses and replacement costs. The fees haulers will accept for contracts (and the maximum amount of cargo they decide to carry) are balanced against the expenses of replacing their occasionally ganked freighters (including the lost contract collateral). CCP reports only mild long term in-game inflation, so the costs of moving goods must not be spiraling out of control.
I'm wondering if the current ganking threat to the average freighter might be exaggerated.
The way things are now, hauling involves interesting choices of risk vs. reward: Will you use an industrial, a freighter, or a jump freighter? How valuable a cargo/collateral are you willing to risk? Are you willing to travel in low-sec? Null-sec? Will you make the trip alone? Will you wait until a quieter time of day? What about weekends? Which star systems will you travel through, and how slowly and cautiously?
If the devs make freighters safer to fly, some of that interesting gameplay gets lost.
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
752
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 00:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Give it a single low slot... you could put in either
a) A Damage Control II or
b) Expanded Cargohold II
Defenses, or cargo. I'd call that kind of choice what EVE is all about. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5036
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 00:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Give it a single low slot... you could put in either
a) A Damage Control II or
b) Expanded Cargohold II
Defenses, or cargo. I'd call that kind of choice what EVE is all about.
They already have a choice. Do they stuff 10 bil into the hold or not. |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1231
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 03:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Andracin wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Would be interesting to see if frieghters were given a lo slot how many people would fit DC II's versus cargo extenders Or warp core stabs...but I would think a fair number might opt for inertia stabs as well....
Nah, I just bring an in-corp alt and web myself... |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2252
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 04:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again. Oh look, tough talking null-sec pvpers' using NPC alts to move stuff again.
We'd be stupid not to.
I'll probably-ábe banned for this |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3373
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 11:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again. Oh look, tough talking null-sec pvpers' using NPC alts to move stuff again. We'd be stupid not to. Better than being moronic null-sec pvpers, eh. Maybe you like to probe out your next gate rather than just use overview to warp to it as well. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
961
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 12:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Oh look an NPC corp character complaining about PVP again. Oh look, tough talking null-sec pvpers' using NPC alts to move stuff again. We'd be stupid not to.
I completely agree.
But anyone who uses an NPC alt, is not in a position to criticize those who stay in an NPC corp to avoid wardecs etc.
Just checked, no one in my two account (one alt one each) is in an NPC corp.
But that is just my personal preference.
Folk are entitled to use whatever game mechanics they see fit as long as it is not against CCP rules.
This is not a signature. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
159
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 14:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
Time to resurrect the mini-freighter idea. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5038
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:09:00 -
[68] - Quote
DJ P0N-3 wrote:Time to resurrect the mini-freighter idea.
Its called an orca. |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 13:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
luZk wrote:xxVastorxx wrote:luZk wrote:You would be so much safer in your freigther if it had guns.. Well you guys couldnt kill my mains deadpsace legion with 8 ships in jita when i gave you the chance to. So pretty sure a frieighter with guns, would be harder for ya. By all means allow this man to deadspace fit his freighter please CPP. He convinced me it's the right thing to do.
you noobs couldnt even kill my alts deadspace fitted legion in jita when i sat outside station for 10 mins. with 8 guys, pretty sure you cant kill a dead space fitted freighter.
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Keeper O'Secrets
Laststar Industries Inc.
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 20:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Giddeon Finnk wrote:Not sure about giving the freighter actual slots; but i would like to see a ship hangar so i can move my rigged / fitted / assembled ships around in my freighter.
ability to make ur own plastic wrap would be simpler (or even courier urself)... for some reason ccp doesnt allow it |
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Ikshuki
Lockheed Martin Systems
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 01:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
who cares about guns, i kinda agree that freighters needs a better tank, but too many will be too rich if freighters had slots, instead why not give freighter resists an omni 30% buff, that way if pirates want to gank a freighter they'll need to use more than one ship to do it with not just one shot it like they do now |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Ushra'Khan
425
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 04:35:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ikshuki wrote:who cares about guns, i kinda agree that freighters needs a better tank, but too many will be too rich if freighters had slots, instead why not give freighter resists an omni 30% buff, that way if pirates want to gank a freighter they'll need to use more than one ship to do it with not just one shot it like they do now I smell troll. |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 09:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
battle freighters, the pvp version of t2 freighters, give em drone bays/slots in exchange for cargo space.
Also give them capital sized guns, and 12 slots, and 2mil ehp.
Nothing is wrong with this idea. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 10:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
I think it could be nice to allow rigs for freighters/JFs. It would allow huge load of new possibilities-faster warp, better cargo, more armor/shield.... I also wonder why we still dont have capital size rigs, as they are in the database but werent introduced ingame. But thats another story. |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 10:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:I think it could be nice to allow rigs for freighters/JFs. It would allow huge load of new possibilities-faster warp, better cargo, more armor/shield.... I also wonder why we still dont have capital size rigs, as they are in the database but werent introduced ingame. But thats another story.
Still finding a way to give goons all the bpos without letting everyone else know, once that is solved it will be released ingame |
Rico Minali
The Straw Men
1207
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 15:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Freighters should be guarded by combat ships. The aggro mechanic should be that if any member of your fleet is fired upon, your whole fleet can fire upon any of the aggressors fleet.
Fleets should be flagged for aggro, not single pilots. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
156
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 16:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
I think that they need one highslot, but not turret or missile bay slot. Just for fun. Also 4 low slots would make much difference in their customization. New CQ prototype |
Sierra Starseeker
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 03:03:00 -
[78] - Quote
Back to the top.
Simple: 1. Freighters, and whatever Industrial ships CCP have in store for us in their upcoming Tiercide need some serious buffing. Top priority should be Freighters though, period.
2. The whole Freighter-bumping-100KM-from-the-jump-gate-phenomena, that's simply designed to have CONCORD reach you when it's already too late (since like you, they don't warp to objects that are too near) should be eliminated.
So many Ganking-lobbyists and Ganker-yes-men in this thread.. That's just sick.
Even more so is people trying to make a valid point out of those who want to keep their identity - and their expensive Freighters that cost 15 times more than your average disposable 'nado (and x2+ times that in actual cargo worth) - safe.
Here's an idea: Head back into low/null-sec, and kindly ask your CEOs, FCs and r/l buddies to have you pull the trigger on stuff that actually matters instead on hapless Freighters in Hi-sec.
You remember your "true" enemies, right?! Well here's a reminder: It's not CONCORD or its gank-this-Freighter-in-20-seconds-or-you're-toast-timer, no.
It's those rivaling Corp/Alliance's fighter pilots who fly actual fighter ships. You know, the ones that you graciously ignore cause of messed up deals under the table. |
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