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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
276
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:There are two ways a new corporation/alliance can choose from
(1) Join one of the powerblocs, use the resources they offer you to grow and hopefully split away from them one day. The obvious issue is that you will have no reason to split away from them and probably will never able to do it anyways as you will recruit the same j4gs as everyone else. It's very easy to find recruits if you have your name on the sov map but it is almost impossible to attract competent recruits if you have a reputation for being a pet.
(2) Move to NPC 0.0, make a name for yourself, forge a coalition with other entities in your region and then push to take sov from some weak sov holding entity. You'll still have to find friends among the dominant 0.0 entities to hold on to your sov but you will probably have a resilient & competent fighting force at that point (npc 0.0 weeds out the j4gs and bads pretty fast) which should earn you some respect and give you a position to negotiate from. The obvious issue is that most of your members won't be interested in holding sov (otherwise they wouldn't have joined a corp in npc space).
But both of these require me to talk to people and I'm a beautiful strong lone wolf who don't need no friends |

Fabio Bittar
Dark Circle Enforcement Templis Dragonaors
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shanara As wrote:"(...) and I dont have the illusion anymore that i can compete with some jobless creature that dwells online all the time."
I sympathize. |

Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
568
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:There are two ways a new corporation/alliance can choose from
(1) Join one of the powerblocs, use the resources they offer you to grow and hopefully split away from them one day. The obvious issue is that you will have no reason to split away from them and probably will never able to do it anyways as you will recruit the same j4gs as everyone else. It's very easy to find recruits if you have your name on the sov map but it is almost impossible to attract competent recruits if you have a reputation for being a pet.
(2) Move to NPC 0.0, make a name for yourself, forge a coalition with other entities in your region and then push to take sov from some weak sov holding entity. You'll still have to find friends among the dominant 0.0 entities to hold on to your sov but you will probably have a resilient & competent fighting force at that point (npc 0.0 weeds out the j4gs and bads pretty fast) which should earn you some respect and give you a position to negotiate from. The obvious issue is that most of your members won't be interested in holding sov (otherwise they wouldn't have joined a corp in npc space). But both of these require me to talk to people and I'm a beautiful strong lone wolf who don't need no friends
or i dont speak lemming. nor sure about it.... "Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn-¦t wanna listen, talks the most"
|

Yim Sei
Ontogenic Achronycal PLC
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shanara As wrote:Yeep wrote:[quote=Vera Algaert]There are two ways .... or i dont speak lemming. nor sure about it....
lol , I see what u did there +1 Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
396
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
If only there was space suited to small groups...
(WHs, Lowsec, NPC null) |

Karrl Tian
Exiled Assassins Equestria Alliance
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
That's the thing about empires....they tend require a lot of people agreeing to work together and not kill each other, hence the blueness of Sov space. |

S'Way
Bitter Vets
442
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shanara As wrote: the first OWN system sends a powerfull message to members and foes alike.
Yes it sends out the message to your members that they'll probably end up stuck defending some fairly worthless system (for them) instead of roaming around finding good fights. As for foes it gives the "nice place to camp afk for kills" message too.
Ok, so you can't build supers in NPC 0.0 - but they're not the major factor in wars they used to be (they're still obtainable from other builders if you really have to own one). If you're thinking about moon-goo, well a lot of sov owners don't even have the best of those.
Sov holding is very over-rated - not even the major blocks want a full on war for it anymore as the mechanics are so broken. For the average corp member it gives nothing they can't find better elsewhere - income in wh space or even high-sec is better and roaming or even RvB gives better pvp (unless you like pressing F1 in blobs).
|

Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
568
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Shanara As wrote: the first OWN system sends a powerfull message to members and foes alike.
Yes it sends out the message to your members that they'll probably end up stuck defending some fairly worthless system (for them) instead of roaming around finding good fights. As for foes it gives the "nice place to camp afk for kills" message too. Ok, so you can't build supers in NPC 0.0 - but they're not the major factor in wars they used to be (they're still obtainable from other builders if you really have to own one). If you're thinking about moon-goo, well a lot of sov owners don't even have the best of those. Sov holding is very over-rated - not even the major blocks want a full on war for it anymore as the mechanics are so broken. For the average corp member it gives nothing they can't find better elsewhere - income in wh space, faction warfare or even high-sec is better and roaming or even RvB gives better pvp (unless you like pressing F1 in blobs).
what you are saying is that sov is broken and the "good ones", the people playing eve for the fun and real pew pew (not F1-lemmings) don-¦t give a rats arse about sov anyways ?
i know of the drawbacks regarding sov space but that they are soo immense and that so many players feel the exact same way is hard to believe.... "Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn-¦t wanna listen, talks the most"
|

Ka'Narlist
Cronos Titan Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shanara As wrote: a single system could / can be taken and defended by a very small group of people. assuming you can prevent someone jumpng in and lighting a cyno.
Please tell me more of your vast knowledge |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Shanara As wrote: a single system could / can be taken and defended by a very small group of people. assuming you can prevent someone jumpng in and lighting a cyno.
Please tell me more of your vast knowledge Sure, not like someone could use a ship that can warp cloaked to get in past a gatecamp.
Or even with a cynojammer, sending a fleet in.
Or even without using caps, having Boat throw draeks at it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
568
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Shanara As wrote: a single system could / can be taken and defended by a very small group of people. assuming you can prevent someone jumpng in and lighting a cyno.
Please tell me more of your vast knowledge
misconception on my side. i forgot normal fleets could just jump through the gates :-)
i sincerely apoogize.
but the mechanical aspect of "taking a system" could potentialyl be done by a one man corp / allinace as its only needed to bring SBU-¦s or / then TCU.. so in a fantasy dream world it is doable by one lonely golddigger out in no man-¦s space...
of course reality says otherwise and i know that.
the fighting that usually goes on in order to do so (or prevent it) is merely added on "game value" "Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn-¦t wanna listen, talks the most"
|

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6585
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
0.0 isn't for your "small corp or alliance" though ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Andski wrote:0.0 isn't for your "small corp or alliance" though Make smaller better. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

S'Way
Bitter Vets
442
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Shanara As wrote:
what you are saying is that sov is broken and the "good ones", the people playing eve for the fun and real pew pew (not F1-lemmings) don-¦t give a rats arse about sov anyways ?
Yes. If sov is so good ask a lot of vets why they ended up giving up on it.
Shanara As wrote: i know of the drawbacks regarding sov space but that they are soo immense and that so many players feel the exact same way is hard to believe....
Most of the big alliances are always recruiting - they need a stream of new players to replace those jaded with F1'ing in the laggy blobs. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Shanara As wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Shanara As wrote: a single system could / can be taken and defended by a very small group of people. assuming you can prevent someone jumpng in and lighting a cyno.
Please tell me more of your vast knowledge misconception on my side. i forgot normal fleets could just jump through the gates :-) i sincerely apoogize. but the mechanical aspect of "taking a system" could potentialyl be done by a one man corp / allinace as its only needed to bring SBU-¦s or / then TCU.. so in a fantasy dream world it is doable by one lonely golddigger out in no man-¦s space... of course reality says otherwise and i know that. the fighting that usually goes on in order to do so (or prevent it) is merely added on "game value" You have to shoot station and ihub as well. If shields on structures regenerate, perhaps you'd have to use an easily hotdroppable ship... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Ka'Narlist
Cronos Titan Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Shanara As wrote:[quote=Ka'Narlist][quote=Shanara As] but the mechanical aspect of "taking a system" could potentialyl be done by a one man corp / allinace as its only needed to bring SBU-¦s or / then TCU.. so in a fantasy dream world it is doable by one lonely golddigger out in no man-¦s space...
of course reality says otherwise and i know that.
Yes and theoretically a one man corp can also take down all those tech or neo moon towers and place its own there to get rich beyond any measure. But in reality this won't work, so I don't get your point. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Shanara As wrote: i know of the drawbacks regarding sov space but that they are soo immense and that so many players feel the exact same way is hard to believe....
Most of the big alliances are always recruiting - they need a stream of new players to replace those jaded with F1'ing in the laggy blobs. Definitely, more newbies on the way !! Look forward to their t1 frigate tackling and webbing you, or perhaps their t1 cruiser lowering your targeting range. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3366
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Yes and theoretically a one man corp can also take down all those tech or neo moon towers and place its own there to get rich beyond any measure. But in reality this won't work, so I don't get you point. Theoretically, you could win EVE, but everyone here on the forums is losing really badly. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6586
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
you see, sov 0.0 isn't supposed to cater to your risk-averse, asocial playstyle, nor is it supposed to put 10 man corps on equal footing with empires
0.0 is for empires, not 10-man corps looking to ~stake their claim~ ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |

Abrazzar
697
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Carebear here. Add a mechanic where corporations of the alliances have control over a system and its sovereignty and when they split from the alliance and join a new one the sov gets transferred. So it won't be only structure grinding and sup++er blobbing that can change sov but also political intrigue and instability.
Of course that would require a more complex sov structuring and proper motivation to split the alliance control with the member corps and not just create a huge giga corp that takes the sov responsibilities. Something about risk/reward. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |

Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
283
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
I agree in the most part, it's extremely difficult for small corporations and alliances to gain sov over space, especially these days. That being said, i'm a strong believer in "anything is possible if you put your mind to it", so over time and with enough effort and help of like-minded individuals, it could be possible to gain sov. Just would be extremely difficult. 
When we first started out, we wanted to own sov, so we threw ourselves in with various null alliances. But its not the same, just joining an existing group. You're just a nobody cog in amongst a giant machine. Unless you're willing to be a very active contributing member, you'll likely not go far up the ranks. We soon got bored of a random politics, hassle and constant CTAs.
I believe wormhole space is the last true bastion for small corps and alliances. You only get a single system, but its yours to call home. As long as you can stop someone taking it from you that is.  Post with your main, like a BOSS! |

baltec1
Bat Country
5032
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Might I remind you all that chrib managed to get sov for his one man alliance and hold it for quite some time |

Abrazzar
697
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Might I remind you all that chrib managed to get sov for his one man alliance and hold it for quite some time And he's probably the only player in EVE that can summon a spontaneous fleet of volunteers to defend his system.  Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |

TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
373
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Might I remind you all that chrib managed to get sov for his one man alliance and hold it for quite some time And he's probably the only player in EVE that can summon a spontaneous fleet of volunteers to defend his system. 
And that's just down to him putting in his effort and time. |

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
1608
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Always amused by these threads.
It's like telling a small business to just become a billion dollar multinational corporation if it wants to compete with them. If they can't do that, then they're just bad at business, right? "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams |

No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2169
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Theres lots of small dudes that live, love, fight and die in 0.0 but dont belong to any big group. in npc Venal, Outer Ring, Pure Blind, Syndicate, Fountain, Stain and Delve. Sure they dont have sov but there isnt really much of a benefit to sov right now besides creating defensible positions.
New Eden is your oyster, take it. CSM Winter 2012 Summit Minutes- "On the subject of vanity items, Two step expressed many player's desire to be able to build a ***** in-áspace." |

Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1278
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Always amused by these threads.
It's like telling a small business to just become a billion dollar multinational corporation if it wants to compete with them. If they can't do that, then they're just bad at business, right?
Yes.
If you decide to create a small business that produces a product or service that a huge multi-billion dollar corporation already produces better and cheaper than you can, you deserve to get stomped out of existence. Small businesses should stick to doing things they can do better than the "big boys" can.
This is hard to understand why?
|

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
370
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Andski wrote:you see, sov 0.0 isn't supposed to cater to your risk-averse, ...
Nerf local.
No? |

Wodensun
ZeroSec
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Its all about the ISK...
Nothing more, nothing less, Mittens, Shadoo, G.W. Bush ect are all maintaining the status quo because it fills their pockets with I$K. This is the real reason half of 0.0 is a blue ball and as a lil nemo you simply dont warrant the attention nor do you generate income.
Deals regarding Sov are made in smoke filled backrooms on some jabber server, you know the type. And Time and Effort mean very little, as soon as you threaten the profit margins of a 0.0 coalition your going to get stomped out.
But.. empires rise and fall, history is prove of that and one day you may find yourself in the position to become the next great leader. |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
1836
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
Hooray for 'Nerf the Big Blue Blob' threads! Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
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