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Max Doobie
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 15:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
My question is simple really. Many people responded to my EN24 article by stating that RMTing was the problem in Null-sec.
I still want to be in denial about this, but then a question popped up:
If it's not the major Alliances selling isk, then who is?
How can it be Chinese farmers? How would Chinese farmers make that much isk on this server? What SOV do they own? Surely AFK bot mining doesn't make it so you can sell billions of isk...
I'm basically asking how else other than SOV could you generate such vast amounts of isk to sell?
A good point was made in another post. Search Google and see how many hits you get. How can a few mining bots generate enough isk to sell for so many websites?
How can a few Traders, being the market is so competitive?
How could it be anyone BUT the big guys in Null? |

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
527
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 15:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Big guys are big. But a good botter can generate a LOT of iskies without being nearly so big. Botters slip into the cracks and niches. You don't see them because frankly, in a lot of systems out there, there are very few real live humans present. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2178
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 15:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
IB4 All hisec miners are botters |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
781
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 15:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Must be them 1.0 miners!!!1!1!1
Nah, it's probably jobless 0.0 neckbeardbears. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |

Korg Leaf
Nocturnal Romance
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
All highsec miners are bo-
Bugger. |

baltec1
Bat Country
5038
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:IB4 All hisec miners are botters
Its only about 50-60% |

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
239
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote: I'm basically asking how else other than SOV could you generate such vast amounts of isk to sell?
A good point was made in another post. Search Google and see how many hits you get. How can a few mining bots generate enough isk to sell for so many websites?
How can a few Traders, being the market is so competitive?
How could it be anyone BUT the big guys in Null?
It's enough to apply some logic and evaluate the cases already know and prooffed of massive RTM and other elements. It's just 2+2.
A small group inside these large player aggregations has turned EVE in a tool for real life buisness. And this small group cheat and abuse the majority of the other players in their corp, alliances and coalition.
To distract and keep them busy they tell them the fancy tale "if our economy is going bad is due to highsec, go and blame them". Wake up folks, they're ******* you, they're stealing your gameplay and your fun for their RL business.
And ok, let's wait the next ban hammer cycle.
|

Marionaitte
Eclipse Navy. Li3 Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's probably not Norwegians as even the lowest paying jobs earns you 1,5 plex per hour. |

Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
The botters in empire are alt armies of people in nullsec.
This is not rocket science people.
|

Whatayoke
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour. 2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day 3. b * 30 = c, profit per month 4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month 5. question solved? |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2268
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Between tech and rent from pets, the blue doughnut has botters licked. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |

Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Whatayoke wrote:1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour. 2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day 3. b * 30 = c, profit per month 4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month 5. question solved?
You make way more in good areas of null... so no. Not at all. Nice try though.
|

Whatayoke
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Whatayoke wrote:1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour. 2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day 3. b * 30 = c, profit per month 4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month 5. question solved? You make way more in good areas of null... so no. Not at all. Nice try though. But this can be done by any guy, you dont need to have connections to stay/live in 0.0 or something. Just all by yourself |

Dave Stark
1836
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote:How would Chinese farmers make that much isk on this server?
considering a plex on serenity is 4x what it is on tranquility last i heard.... "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen The Third Rail
267
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
My question is : How hard can it be for CCP to track them down?
-Buy from them. -Pay via a reversible means like paypal. -Trace the isk back to the original account. -Reverse the payment. -Ban account.
I used to do it all the time with pirates selling my software on ebay. ti'n siarad Cymraeg? |

Dave Stark
1836
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ovv Topik wrote:My question is : How hard can it be for CCP to track them down?
-Buy from them. -Pay via a reversible means like paypal. -Trace the isk back to the original account. -Reverse the payment. -Ban account.
I used to do it all the time with pirates selling my software on ebay.
figuring out the "original account" will be the issue. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3060
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
530
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this. Can't do that: It would make sense. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |

Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whatayoke wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Whatayoke wrote:1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour. 2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day 3. b * 30 = c, profit per month 4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month 5. question solved? You make way more in good areas of null... so no. Not at all. Nice try though. But this can be done by any guy, you dont need to have connections to stay/live in 0.0 or something. Just all by yourself
Yes, any guy can bot rat in an empty spot of nullsec and make way more isk then missions.
|

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1562
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote:........
I'm basically asking how else other than SOV could you generate such vast amounts of isk to sell?
A good point was made in another post. Search Google and see how many hits you get. How can a few mining bots generate enough isk to sell for so many websites?
Well, how much ISK is it? Do you know their sales figures? A large number of sites with big numbers displayed on them does not tell you how much ISK is actually moved.
Also there is one source of ISK that you have not considered: Players who quit. If you are planning on leaving Eve and never playing again, why not cash out to an RMTer? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:IB4 All hisec miners are botters Its only about 50-60%
Proof?? |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4326
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
"i am too dumb to understand how people make isk halp" |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4326
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
"oh i guess an rmter botting for isk is unable to manage to figure out 'maybe i should run more ice mining bots' after all i am dumber than rocks ergo everyone is" |

De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
848
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this.
You know if people would just stop driving drunk, we wouldn't have all these drunk driving accidents.
That is, in essence, exactly what you just said. The Margin Trading Scam: If you fell for it, it's your own damned fault. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
782
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Whatayoke wrote:1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour. 2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day 3. b * 30 = c, profit per month 4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month 5. question solved?
So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?
Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |

Dave Stark
1836
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this. You know if people would just stop driving drunk, we wouldn't have all these drunk driving accidents. That is, in essence, exactly what you just said.
and both are true. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4326
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?
Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play.
You really don't make that much from missions, i'd be down in null running anomalies if i wasn't such a casual risk averse carebear scrub. yeah this is pretty much nonsense
missions are hilariously heavily botted: for a long time one of the surest ways to make money was buy implants shortly before a big patch and sell them right afterwards
why did that work so well? because each new patch would break mission-runner bots for a few days to a few weeks, causing far fewer implants to come to jita and causing a price spike
the swings are much less extreme now because of fw though |

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
282
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't support the removal of local in 0.0, but this is one instance were it would actually help fix part of the problem.
Then again, alliances might not sell ISK, but if people think individuals are not selling ISK earned by skimming high-level alliance income, they are in denial. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4326
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
basically missions and ice are heavily botted in empire for two reasons:
a)infinite scalability: botters can keep onlining new bots and throwing them at sources of money ad infinitum. a mission runner system or ice belt supports as many bots as a botter can manage
b)no competition: botters don't have to compete for resources with real players, who will get mad at them and report them to ccp (or harrass their bots)
they're in empire of course because
c)no risk: because of concord, the risk is minimal, very little ganking, and the bots can be much dumber and lose much less uptime to having to hide. |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
782
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Kiteo Hatto wrote:So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?
Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play.
You really don't make that much from missions, i'd be down in null running anomalies if i wasn't such a casual risk averse carebear scrub. yeah this is pretty much nonsense missions are hilariously heavily botted: for a long time one of the surest ways to make money was buy implants shortly before a big patch and sell them right afterwards why did that work so well? because each new patch would break mission-runner bots for a few days to a few weeks, causing far fewer implants to come to jita and causing a price spike the swings are much less extreme now because of fw though
Interesting, good to know! Care to explain how does one bot missions though ? Not sure if its just me but I just can't imagine software do missions, i mean, what you get is random :S How do the "bot" knows what to shoot and when to start shooting ? Well, maybe it would be possible with overtanked missile boats or drone boats(before retribution) but the dps would be so low that it would take forever for each mission and income per hour would drop so low that the "bot" might as well mine roids. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |
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