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Panda Bear
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Posted - 2005.07.22 17:32:00 -
[1]
Yes 0.0 is lawless, but so at one time were the majority of RL countries. Until CCP comes up with a way for mega-corps or alliances to bring law to their claimed territories, 0.0 space will stay in its current state. I do not see this happening with the current game system.
So, if you like 0.0 space the way it is fine. I happen to like Empire space the way it is, leave Empire alone. If you want 0.0 populated, stop trying to make changes to Empire.
Law will never come to 0.0 space because their are no "real" punishment(s) for being a criminal nor will their ever be. Its a game and people dont want a game where their character is locked up in jail for crimes committed.
I tire of hearing how us "carebears" are not the same caliber of player those who venture into 0.0 space are or how industrious those in 0.0 space are.
As stated on other game forums that have or had an open system of PvP, Eve is basically two games. One for those of us that enjoy playing a space faring game and do not enjoy PvP and those the enjoy a space faring game with PvP. Accept it.
When I drive my car in RL down a infrequently used road or highway, I do not carry a trunk full of armaments in case there are "pirates" somewhere on this stretch of road. I expect the road to be free and clear until I reach my destination. And if I do happen to have something criminal happen along the way, I expect the "Law" to eventually do something about it, with the criminal spending some time in jail.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2005.07.22 17:36:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
When I drive my car in RL down a infrequently used road or highway, I do not carry a trunk full of armaments in case there are "pirates" somewhere on this stretch of road. I expect the road to be free and clear until I reach my destination. And if I do happen to have something criminal happen along the way, I expect the "Law" to eventually do something about it, with the criminal spending some time in jail.
Right... but that's not how it is in EVE, and that's not how it was when the majority of RL countries were lawless.
Alliances do make the laws in 0.0, it's just that the extent of the law there is usually "Trespass on our space and you're KOS". I for one don't want to see 0.0 space turned into empire space, because that's all this talk of laws is going to do. 0.0 is a free for all and should stay that way.
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Panda Bear
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Posted - 2005.07.22 17:56:00 -
[3]
And I am not advocating changing 0.0 space, but on the other hand I also think changes to Empire to try and get people into 0.0 space is not the answer either.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:01:00 -
[4]
I agree, people who want to be in 0.0 will go to 0.0, people that don't want to be there will stay in empire. I don't think trying to push people out there by changing empire is the way to go. Just add more content to 0.0, more options, and in time more and more people will venture there. CCP has already been doing this, and that's good, they just need to keep at it and everything should be fine.
Besides, 0.0 is already populated pretty well, there are many empty systems yes but they are empty because being there simply isn't practical. Why sit in a system 30 jumps inside Stain when you can find the same things 1 jump into Stain?
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:12:00 -
[5]
Personally at the moment I see 0.0 as a vacation spot.. I can get empire wars for PvP and 0.0 for mining and the good rats... There is very little out there to do really except maybe complexes.
However, I can see it changing and when there is a some more infrastructure it will be alot better.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/raymo168/grainsalt.jpg |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:13:00 -
[6]
Law is at the pointy end of *6x425mm rail guns. In 0.0 you have to make your own laws, and then have the right and might to enforce them.
*insert your choice of weapon.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,[i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box an |
Brej Donierik
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:16:00 -
[7]
Actually, 0.0 is not lawless anymore; it has the same laws as Empire, more or less. Basically, be nice to the locals or you get shot down by some overwhelming force.
You will argue that alliances shoot neutrals on sight, and in Empire neutrals are free to do as they please, but I'd say that that's just because the NPC's have been designed that way. Think about this, there's a possible war coming in Kali, and with a war, it's quite possible that CCP will make say, Amarr NPC's shoot all Minmatar on sight. That'll be the same situation as what's going on in 0.0 now. We now have to negotiate to get into alliance space, and we'll possibly have to grind faction (equivalent of negotiations) to get into Amarr Empire space.
The problem with Alliances blocking huge areas of space just to defend their 3-8 home systems is a Map Design issue. We need "neutral" access points to deep 0.0; they need to redesign the map again so that the good ore / stations are grouped in clumps of stars, with tendrils of worthless systems to function as roads connecting Empire and all these pockets of desired space.
That way Alliances can retreat into their pockets of desired space, and leave open pathways to get past them (not THROUGH them) to deep 0.0.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brej Donierik
...The problem with Alliances blocking huge areas of space just to defend their 3-8 home systems is a Map Design issue. We need "neutral" access points to deep 0.0; they need to redesign the map again so that the good ore / stations are grouped in clumps of stars, with tendrils of worthless systems to function as roads connecting Empire and all these pockets of desired space.
I believe these corridors are called Syndicate and Providence.
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RnD Guy
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:35:00 -
[9]
Panda's do not belong in 0.0
They belong in the zoo
Silly panda you
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Brej Donierik
We need "neutral" access points to deep 0.0; they need to redesign the map again so that the good ore / stations are grouped in clumps of stars, with tendrils of worthless systems to function as roads connecting Empire and all these pockets of desired space.
How is this different than right now? Thats a serious question too.
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Brej Donierik
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:47:00 -
[11]
Well, my idea was of much smaller areas, like they said, 1-2 constellations, 10-15 stars, per alliance. Currently, we still have these huge bulk areas being claimed, no?
However, I understand that it sucks to be forced to shrink into a small area, when you're a group of 300+ players, so I was suggesting incentives rather than nerfs/being forced.
And I'll probably get flamed for suggesting it and/or trying to "change other people's game" anyway. So, I don't know, shrug.
Should have not commented to this thread.
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James Don
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:54:00 -
[12]
I had a funny though about a new item that is kind of relevant to this topic,
There is alot of danger in 0.0 and alot of alliences will kill everyone that is not at +10 in order to maintain their security so how about anchorable sensor outposts?
Its simple really you can anchor them near gates roid belts and set them to scan all ships that come within their range say max range of 500km,
but you can set them up to eve mail a player (must b in the same corp / allience) if a player with a perticular status i.e. -10 to that corp/allience or set it to report when a player with a sec status like -2 to -1 etc enters the system.
It love to hear why this idea wont work or is noobish! 
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Siri Danae
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:55:00 -
[13]
The answer to lawlessness is to make alliances responsible for security in their space. IE don't shoot innocents and don't let anyone else.
With the rights of sovereignty should come some responsibility.
------
I generally assume the following:
1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers.
2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears.
3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners. |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.07.22 18:58:00 -
[14]
I like 0.0 the way it is.
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[WTT: Vigilant] |
Panda Bear
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:48:00 -
[15]
Again, I am not advocating any changes to 0.0, but I am asking that Empire be left as it is. CCP needs to come up with ways to get more people into 0.0, but not at the expense of Empire. I know its their game, but there are lots of us players who like space faring games but don't like PvP. And I like Eve the best for my space faring game.
That is all I am asking.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:52:00 -
[16]
I don't understand how you could not like PvP, but meh.
I think you just want to do lvl 4s in Jita again.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Panda Bear
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:56:00 -
[17]
Lol, just a manufacturer and trader here. Nothing so glamorous.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.22 19:58:00 -
[18]
Ah so is it the whole no more Yulai as default flea market? Cause that stunk tbh.
I'm glad region are so much more important now. You can actually sell items at different prices...simply amazing.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Juniper
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Posted - 2005.07.22 20:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I like 0.0 the way it is.
Isn't that kind of the point though? You like playing in the 0.0 sandbox as it is now, so in your alliance in your part of space that's how it would be. Other alliances might have different ideas, and need a means of implementing them.
Thus, nations are forged out of these alliances which rise and fall like any other, and have different rules like any other. Wars etc can mean real Empire building... far in excess of what we call 'Empire' today.
That's the way I see EVE going, but you have to have proper tools to support it though. By proper, I mean all the tools that the Empire currently has in terms of sentry guns, NPC police, etc, whatever your nation alliance choose to use. The lawlessness aspect of 0.0 is only one of many possibilities, which we are all free to use.
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Hr84xor
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Posted - 2005.07.22 20:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Siri Danae
With the rights of sovereignty should come some responsibility.
With the rights of sovereignty comes the ability to do whatever you want.
The alliances are, for all legal intents and purposes of Eve RP/Mechanics, their own countries. They are not bound by those silly concord laws in the same way the country of Libia is not bound to the laws of Germany.
Who is going to inforce this "responsibility" that you feel alliances should be forced to bare, and, how is it fair to the alliances that they have to change their laws to what conviences you? |
Panda Bear
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Posted - 2005.07.22 20:16:00 -
[21]
Typical of so many people Sobeseki. No, Yulai was an overpriced flee market. I never traded there unless I found someone buying a mod for some outrageous price that I picked up in some backwater place for a decent amount.
As I said before, I tire of the "elitest" of Eve and their condensending attitude to those of us that actually like playing the other aspects of Eve other than PvP. If you find those aspects of Eve boring, so be it. Others do not.
You want people to leave 0.0 alone, well that is all I am asking for in Empire. Stop trying to push those of us that enjoy law, order and structure into the wild west.
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.22 20:32:00 -
[22]
I didn't read the whole thread, but I have to agree with the original post "somewhat". I live in 0.0 and hate empire. But I DO NOT want empire nerfed to get more people out to 0.0. Just boost 0.0 content and keep empire as is. I mean exedous was supposed to cause people to go to 0.0, and cosmos was supposed to re-inforce that. But the both patches were empire boosters...how the heck are you going to lure people out to 0.0 if u keep giving them more game play in empire but do nothing to 0.0? I thought the cosmos constelations would be 0.0, but that's empire too.
I'm on the "Don't nerf the overpowered, BOOST the underpowered" boat.
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Dakath
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Posted - 2005.07.22 21:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
I didn't read the whole thread, but I have to agree with the original post "somewhat". I live in 0.0 and hate empire. But I DO NOT want empire nerfed to get more people out to 0.0. Just boost 0.0 content and keep empire as is. I mean exedous was supposed to cause people to go to 0.0, and cosmos was supposed to re-inforce that. But the both patches were empire boosters...how the heck are you going to lure people out to 0.0 if u keep giving them more game play in empire but do nothing to 0.0? I thought the cosmos constelations would be 0.0, but that's empire too.
I'm on the "Don't nerf the overpowered, BOOST the underpowered" boat.
That is a constructive attitude and a refreshing change from the usual "Push those carebears OUT of empire so I can have more targets" stuff that I read so often.
10 baby bunnies were roasted alive over a slow fire to create this signature line. |
Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.22 21:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dakath
That is a constructive attitude and a refreshing change from the usual "Push those carebears OUT of empire so I can have more targets" stuff that I read so often.
Why would I want more people out here? We have more than enough targets, and if there becomes a shortage you can always **** someone off and get new ones. Besides, I want to keep my ore and NPC's for myself 
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Vryce Ganvi
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Posted - 2005.07.22 21:16:00 -
[25]
I agree with the original poster ENTIRELY. It could be handled by expanding the power that Alliances have in their sovereign space. Here's how:
Add Alliances as factions and let them be able to set standings towards other players. So that STAIN -- for example -- could manually give somebody a 0.0, -2.4, or 4.3 faction standing.
Now add a module to outposts that acts as an aggression detector. Outpost operators can "calibrate" the detector so that if any aggression within the system against players with [whatever] faction standing with STAIN, if that aggression happens then somebody operating the detector is given an insta-warp in bookmark for the aggression.
They warp in with their "security gang" and dish out retribution.
Nothing terribly complex about it, but at the same time it gives alliances a wide array of choices to make. They can still run their space as lawless, or they can impose law. As an alliance imposes law in space, you'd then see people willing to move out of Empire space and into STAIN space. Commerce would take place, and as long as STAIN continued to provide a law-abiding atmosphere and security, they'd have a thriving empire.
Or an alliance could continue to run it lawless and themselves prey upon anybody entering space.
But I agree with the original poster: incentives to head to 0.0 are fine, but don't force it. At the same time, give alliances power to lay down the law in their space (or not) and you'll see big changes.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.22 22:18:00 -
[26]
most ppl, suggesting things to get mroe ppl into 0.0 seem to be unable to see that there are ppl that have other wishes, fun in other aspects in the game.
most of the 0.0 players, at least alot, just wonna shoot as many ppl as possible.
with these players, and the amount of money u can make in 0.0 its perfectly balanced.
with the fixed lvl4s now, and the coming complex fix ;), 0.0 will get more and more players/targets
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.07.22 22:30:00 -
[27]
I've long been satisfied with 0.0, living in it in the past, and again in the present. I have a long and solid record of supporting 0.0 as the "Lawless/make your own law" area that it is. In 0.0, PvP is a fact of life, and this is good.
I also have a long and solid record of supporting a "low stress" and "highly profitable" game for the 0.5+ empire base industrialist/mission runners (care bears), and I don't mince words on the issue.
Some of us fully support a good and profitable game for the empire folks.
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2005.07.22 23:21:00 -
[28]
Xiong mao no go to 0.0 
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