Yes, it does. Because he is the final arbiter of whether the application that you wrote to make your market trades inhumanly fast is a bot. :)

-Liang

I believe my point was, that it shouldn't.

So what if I copy the data into a different directory then scrape it?
Or even better what if I play EVE once on a hdd then switch to another EVE client and use that on a separate hdd, reformatting and reinstalling EVE between each switch?
Or worse setup a raid backup then use the data written to the backup and thus never touch the game cache that is used in the first place?

I agree Liang.

There have been previous petitions to GMs about cache scraping, and they have come back saying it is legal, so long as it doesn't modify the files, which it doesn't.

This can be found in the forums if you search a bit.

Using the In Game Browsers in-built functions is surely legal, otherwise why not just remove them..

And it really is so simple to put the two together to make some very powerful tools by opening the market pane through the In Game browser, then scraping the prices from the cache.

People are using this method everywhere to update spreadsheets, buy/sell orders, etc

I find it hard to believe that CCP are now calling this 'botting'.

Or at least CCP Screegs, who is the final arbiter, is calling it botting.

Then CCP Sreegs declares loading cache files to be illegal ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2601788#post2601788 )

The player base really needs some clarity on what allowed and what is not.

Couldn't they just encrypt the cache if they didn't want you to use it? They did that with BACON I think.

People are using this method everywhere to update spreadsheets, buy/sell orders, etc

Re. cache scraping:

1. Explicit permission is explicit

2008 forum post is from 2008.


Heck, that was back in the BoB days. Now goons are running everything...
(sorry I had to...)

Okay, so if you're on linux and you set turn off a specific setting for a specific file or if you're on win7 and have never needed to know when a file was created, accessed, or modified then it's possible to open a file without altering the metadata.

Fair enough. But I call those edge cases. Not something so common that you can interpret the terms of an EULA assuming those circumstances.

You can open files on any POSIX and even MS DOS compatible file system upwards without altering anything including metadata, with a simple C call...

Once CCP declares the cache off limits, this behavior will get you banned. Use the API like you're supposed to.

-Liang

2008 forum post is from 2008.


Heck, that was back in the BoB days. Now goons are running everything...
(sorry I had to...)

I'm going to go with "so what if metadata is modified?", as there is no way to identify WHAT accessed it.

But it would be absolutely ridiculous to expect us to ask CCP if previously-explicitly-permitted-activity-X is still permitted everytime an issue comes up related to it.

If they had changed their mind, the least I would expect is a blog/news item stating the change in policy, especially on something so crucial for many 3rd party developers.

Let's assume for a moment that CCP declares cache scraping forbidden and encrypt the cache data files.

I estimate it'll take 2 weeks tops before someone they will never find, will have those files opened like cheap pomatoes cans and posted the whole universe about how to do it.

Would you turds quit hacking the market and compete like everyone else has to?? Update your orders by hand ffs

We are.
This is the equivalent of Google search for a term paper as opposed to library with a card catalog.

Also does anything happen if we give you items entity?

Re. cache scraping:

1. Explicit permission is explicit

2. Back then I sent my cache decoder library Reverence (shameless plug) for review and release approval to CCP. They approved it, or it wouldn't have been released. Heck, the whole project is quite cheeky about it ;)

3. Sreegs merely stated his opinion. I don't think he should have stated this opinion because of the whole leaving-the-third-party-developer-community-in-uncertainty factor, but it is merely an opinion regardless. A moot opinion at this point in time.

In case they want to "stop" (uhuh) people from reading the cache, CCP's options are extremely limited. I could go in depth as to why it is impossible to prevent access to the cache files, but anyone with an interest in this activity knows why so I won't bother.

Another point is, that an outlawing of cache decoding would do nothing to stop people abusing it, but would severely cripple 3rd party developers that play by the rules.

So, in short, I don't think there's anything to worry about.
If CCP backpedals on points #2 and #1 above, they're 5 years too late. The technology is already out there seeing widespread use, and permission was already granted (sure, could be revoked, but again, what is the point?).

The API can't even vaguely support the amount of constant throughput it's needed to do that job.
They need to implement a real time mail slot protocol and considering how long they take to implement the hugely simpler REST, you'd see something coming out by 2030.