No. Read the OP and the other posts.

The purpose is to minimize/justify the use of trading bots saying that, in the end, is the same as using common tool like EVEMON or EFT or the same as going to evecentral site.

And also trying to say that is not clear in the EULA and maybe is CCP missunderstanding what we do bla bla, when is perfectly clear.

Please, don't try to tell that getting a data dump from eve client to populate your own excell file is the same as writing a script that every second automatically access the client data to check a specific price.

it's simple IMHO: if in your script there's a LOOP or an IF structure is a bot.

If you have doubts if something is allowed or not, then it's probably not allowed.

Don't be EvE's "Armstrong".

Don't be silly. EVEMON (as EFT) don't neither need to have the eve client installed. Everyone can try and verify this.

But if these things are illegal a spectacular number of players should be banned!

All of the data in Eve Central would be obtained illegally for a start. And just because someone else broke the rules getting the data doesn't suddenly make it fine to use it.

Edit: by illegal I mean breaking the terms of EVE not the actual law

And again this try to misslead and create confusion.

It's written in the EULA (but also in the simple logic):

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

The key part is "to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game". Ar eyou using something that allow you to skip/automate/improve the normal actions performed by the normal client use? Is this giving you an advantage in respect of the other players? Then probably is "illegal".

And no, your friend using tools to manage hundreds of buy/orders per second and ******* the others on station trading is not the same as reading the EVE central web site or using EVEMON.
Not even close.
Not even the same universe.

I'm sure if here the tool was something helping to detect your safe spot and gank your ship then none of you had any doubt.

Notice how there is neither input from CCP? They are preparing something. No more speculation soon.

Let's hope they are. Because I for one am mighty confused.

First the relevant point from the EULA

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

Next the things that could possibly be categorised as breaking the above, or not.

1) Use the EVE In-Game Browser's ShowMarketDetails() javascript method to move the market pane to a specific item.

2) Use the EVE In-Game Browser's ShowMarketDetails() javascript method in a loop to cycle through a predefined set of items, (given that there is a built-in delay between each item showing to prevent server overload and abuse).

3) Load prices from the EvE client cache that have previously been viewed in the Market Pane, by using the many available libraries (libevecache, EveCacheParser, EveCache.NET).

It really is very, very easy to string these three together into something that will feed you up to date sell/buy orders of anything. Given your characters current sell/buy orders are available through the EVE API, even the simplest of simpletons could see how this could be 'used' to accelerate the rate that a character acquires ISK.

Now, up until the last week, all of these (apart from putting them together perhaps) were considered perfectly legal.

- Eve Marketeer certainly did 1) and 2).

- There have been numerous posts on these forums, with no CCP comment, about 1) and 2) e.g. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1721979 *specifically* for the purpose of loading up the cached results. No CCP comment.

- EveMon scrapes your cache 1), loads the prices, and sends them to Eve Central.

- Eve Mentat scrapes your cache and lets you compare the prices with your orders.

There are many, many, many player tools that have not been declared illegal that use one or all of these methods.

Then CCP Sreegs declares loading cache files to be illegal ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2601788#post2601788 )

The player base really needs some clarity on what allowed and what is not.

You've got "EVE", "Eve", "EvE" all in one post. Pick one for Jovian sake. I suggest the actual name of the game: EVE.

Thank you.

========

And, how about a solid "no".

Thank you.

Yes you are a special and unique snowflake. Obviously I was talking about my fellow mere mortals who are only cool enough to use EveMon.

I apologize for painting you with the same brush.

So much tears.

In case they want to "stop" (uhuh) people from reading the cache, CCP's options are extremely limited. I could go in depth as to why it is impossible to prevent access to the cache files, but anyone with an interest in this activity knows why so I won't bother.

What happens is someone gets banned for something but we don't know what because can't discuss with third party. And then another person and another. Soon everyone is being massacred as even the NPC corp alts in GD fall silent.

Eventually every one of us discovers that CCP Streeg's banhammer is actually Graf Eisen.

1) encrypt the cache on the way to disk

2) declare the encryption used as a copy protection device (the stuff stored in the cache is technically restricted use content from CCP)

3) user decrypts cache to do cache scraping

4) user goes to gaol under DMCA

5) sucks to be you

This would not fully stop cache sculpting, someone would probably find a way to obtain the encryption key. It would put people using the technique in the same box as people using bots, and i looking at user/client behavior it would probably not be hard to spot the people using it.

It's even easier than that. In a path of least resistance, if cache reading became impossible (very unlikely) then people would just install an hook on the network driver and intercept data packets a la Wireshark and then decode those.

The result is the same, by reading the data of the wire you are also violation the EULA.

So many tears. Tears are countable, the word can be pluralised. One tear, two tears, many tears.

So much crying. Crying is not countable, the word doesn't make a singular/plural distinction. There is crying. There is no crying. There is much crying.

I'd be disappointed if it took 2 weeks. 2 days is more realistic.

Either way, encrypting cache is one option. Another option is to just not put stuff in cache they don't want scraped, for the same reason they shouldn't put static data on test servers they don't want people to speculate on.

At any rate, I believe CCP employees should be more careful about the statements they make. Someone like Sreegs who commands a fairly large amount of authority on matters such as these should at least formulate opinions in a way it looks less like a threat of imminent banning.

Just FYI, forum posts are not policy in the same way that EULAs are not specific enough to reliably judge what one can/cant do other than to steer so clear of the activity as to stop using the product.

Note that I'm talking JUST about the act of reading the cache (as was Sreegs), not about any automation or other less than honorable things one might do with the technology, that's an entirely different matter.

Being the devil's advocate, do you use a hex editor to read the cache or a program to do it for you? Something that does it for you, Sir, is automation. And it would seem to me that such a tool accelerates you acquisition of "stuff" faster than someone using a hex editor. Even the hex editor can be categorized as automation and acceleration when compared to someone examining the individual bits of 0's & 1's and so forth until we're comparing use of stone tools to examine the data. I understand what you're saying. I'm only being the devil here.

The result is the same, by reading the data of the wire you are also violation the EULA.