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Pewty McPew
Pillage Plunder And Rape Industries
188
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lets forget for a moment the Darwin issue of forgetting to upgrade/renew you medical clone and losing SP.
If free medical clones were provided to all players would this encourage more people to participate in PVP?
Players with over 100 mil SP are sometimes averted to PVP because of the cost of replacement clones at that level. Even lower level players can be drained having to replace countless clones. Without the worry of losing 10x or more the cost of the T1 firgate you are flying I think more players would be more willing to give it a try. At least on a more casual level you could JC into a implantless clone, go on a lo/null sec adventure for the afternoon and not have to worry about losing 75+ mil ISK and potential SP loss. It may just be the determining factor for alot of unsure players who wanted to get their feet wet but were afraid to.
Even most serious PVPers have alts to help augment their income to pay for their fun and also allow them access to hisec. Would it not also be beneficial to them to have one less thing to worry about? Let them concentrate on what they do best, killing.
Just wondering other opinions on this.
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Hixeppa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. If you've reached 100M SP and are still pissing yourself over a little clone cost, you were never going to be a pvper. Carebear on. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
ehh... probably some? Though I imagine we'd be seeing rookie ship fleets more often mostly more than anything. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
463
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Consequences. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
797
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think I would pvp more but I would probably fly cheaper ships. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
337
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Agreed clone reactivation costs / upgrade costs are total BS and could very well be removed, ISK can be sunk elsewhere. Tying additional costs to character age is indeed stupid. I truly dread the day I decide to train a char on the same account for this very reason. I like my main and I'd prefer to keep investing in it instead of spreading my attention over multiple characters.
Disagreeing implants are an issue per se, empty clones can be the norm. It's players advocating rushing your SP as fast as possible that are the problem causing people to rage over implant loss. Grinding up for a JC for a single corp of your choice isn't that much grind, especially when you are in a player corp that's newbie-friendly and lets you tag along L3 / L4 missions. |
Mathrin
Synthetic Solution Synthetic Systems
60
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
At over 50 mil SP I pay 13 mil a clone. Free clones would not effect my pvp at all. Heck I pod myself sometimes just to get back to jita for a few minutes. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2459
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
First they complain about implants, then they complain about clone costs. they will always come up with an excuse as to why they can't pvp. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Renzo Ruderi
State War Academy Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hasn't this been brought up, like, six thousand times before? |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
133
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
now six thousand and one |
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Ckra Trald
Stellar Essence STELLAR CONSTELLATION
73
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
when you have a ton of sp you could pay for an alt for pvp
nah
but really, reduced clone prices would be reasonable for higher SP players... We must embrace pain and use it to fuel our POS |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Renzo Ruderi wrote:Hasn't this been brought up, like, six thousand times before?
Enough where they're looking into changing something about it *shrugs* so I guess we'll see what happens? |
Austin McLaren
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have avoided/missed pvp beacuse of my implants, nothing else. Jump clones are great but the timer is a big issue. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1960
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
I already PvP in 5 to 30 million ISK frigates with a billion ISK implant set in my head... if I get podded the clone cost is the LAST thing I'll be mad about. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4496
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
most of the problem with pvp is targets
eve pvp is largely about forcing someone to fight because people like fights they can win and people tend not to agree with those
so what you need is either involuntary targets (ratters, etc) that get ganked, or things you can threaten to force fights (pocos, towers, sov)
for more pvp increase the involuntary targets or the things to threaten to create fights |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:most of the problem with pvp is targets
eve pvp is largely about forcing someone to fight because people like fights they can win and people tend not to agree with those
so what you need is either involuntary targets (ratters, etc) that get ganked, or things you can threaten to force fights (pocos, towers, sov)
for more pvp increase the involuntary targets or the things to threaten to create fights
Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though. |
Ankles McGlashan
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Austin McLaren wrote:I have avoided/missed pvp beacuse of my implants, nothing else. Jump clones are great but the timer is a big issue.
yeah I agree. i'm sure there's good reasons for it but it kind of points to... alts! the JC with no timer.
I started a new character for PvP. just as well I get melted constantly. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4499
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote: Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though.
that happens all the time actually, it's basically how sov wars are won
with dominion sov it's essentially impossible to grind a region against opposition: the amount of time and money you have to spend is intolerable. what you do is basically beat down your opponent often enough they stop coming out to play, so you can grind the region without any effective opposition
no wars in eve are really won anymore because the defender cannot win: they're won because the defender can't convince enough people to come out and defend, and then individuals and corporations start fleeing the sinking ship and the alliance itself collapses |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Aren Madigan wrote: Not far off. It also is about the value to them compared to the risk. If its more expensive for them to defend then it is to just let it go, that drops off the number of people willing to fight as well leaving the most loyal or those who just like fighting. The other thing is also, once things look hopeless, bam, fighting stops. No reason to keep suiciding your ships pointlessly. Overall though, yeah, has to be something to fight over and people believing they have a chance of victory or fun to maximize the number of people you get. Hated this sometimes in other games. A couple painful losses and people suddenly all disappear. Seems to happen little less often in EVE though.
that happens all the time actually, it's basically how sov wars are won with dominion sov it's essentially impossible to grind a region against opposition: the amount of time and money you have to spend is intolerable. what you do is basically beat down your opponent often enough they stop coming out to play, so you can grind the region without any effective opposition no wars in eve are really won anymore because the defender cannot win: they're won because the defender can't convince enough people to come out and defend, and then individuals and corporations start fleeing the sinking ship and the alliance itself collapses
Fair enough. What is the point of Sov right now anyways, besides controlling the region? Are the more valuable items supposed to be out there, or is there something else out there? Or is that a big part of the problem? There being nothing out there that you can't get just as easily in non-sov null? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4499
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Fair enough. What is the point of Sov right now anyways, besides controlling the region? Are the more valuable items supposed to be out there, or is there something else out there? Or is that a big part of the problem? There being nothing out there that you can't get just as easily in non-sov null? sov gives you stations, and upgrades
with control over the only docking anywhere nearby you have a much better ability to control that area, and things like ratting upgrades make it better to live there. much better than living in npc 0.0 where someone can supply their ganking out of your home station. for regions with moons, it's very difficult to hold the moons without holding the sov, so by controlling the local stations and sov you have a significant leg up on controlling the moons (and if you can't, you're about to lose your sov)
but it is fairly broken for a lot of reasons and sov conflict itself is horribly broken |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
285
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Actually clone cost should be increased.
Was already lowered 2-3 years ago. In the mean time more ISK faucet were added to the game and everyone is far ritcher. Clone cost should be scaled (increased) periodically in relation to this. To be podded today is nothing in respect of 2-3 years ago, this have to be fixed.
And, yes, is something to worry about. And no, if one doesnt feel to face a risk (in a game) simply should stay away, is not mandatory. But please do not ask to trivialize the whole game on this.
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Ankles McGlashan
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hixeppa wrote:No. If you've reached 100M SP and are still pissing yourself over a little clone cost, you were never going to be a pvper. Carebear on.
if he had decided to hop straight in he wouldn't pay 30M for 'mistakes'
most of my 'mistakes' have costed less than 100K and I regard them as a free teleport to my next ship. I often demand to be podded though very politely. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:it is fairly broken though, there's not really much upgradability, reasons to have your name on the map besides just having it on the map, and the sov conflict is horribly unfun for all involved
I assume its fairly grindy? |
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
87
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would PVP more if insurance covered Tech 2 hulls.
I was good with T1 hulls 3 years ago. It just seems silly that the 'elite' ships I spent years skilling up for in PVE can't be flown into low-sec uncloaked or else it's like throwing away 60-120 mil ISK to whatever gangs or fittings which I haven't specifically prepped to counter. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4499
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Weaselior wrote:it is fairly broken though, there's not really much upgradability, reasons to have your name on the map besides just having it on the map, and the sov conflict is horribly unfun for all involved I assume its fairly grindy? yeah
the ehp you need to kill to take a region is absurd, in the tens of millions
the only way to do it is with unsupported supercarriers, but you can't do that against resistance (they will get ganked), so against resistance you need to muster giant fleets for each and every timer for each and every system and grind down the hub, tcu, and stations
it's a crazy amount of work |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
81
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Weaselior wrote:it is fairly broken though, there's not really much upgradability, reasons to have your name on the map besides just having it on the map, and the sov conflict is horribly unfun for all involved I assume its fairly grindy? yeah the ehp you need to kill to take a region is absurd, in the tens of millions the only way to do it is with unsupported supercarriers, but you can't do that against resistance (they will get ganked), so against resistance you need to muster giant fleets for each and every timer for each and every system and grind down the hub, tcu, and stations it's a crazy amount of work
Sheesh.. I can understand needing a lot of work and wanting protection from night capping, but grinds are never fun. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
80
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Players should be able to opt into permadeath; no access to the clone network.
Benefits include: You don't show up in local. You don't show up in other peoples killmails. Gate guns ignore you.
Anyone think of other benefits to not having a CONCORD transponder implanted in the base of your skull? (which is how I imagine things like instantly appearing in local or the clone network must function)?
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Evei Shard
166
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Posted - 2013.02.18 01:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Players should be able to opt into permadeath; no access to the clone network.
Benefits include: You don't show up in local. You don't show up in other peoples killmails. Gate guns ignore you.
Anyone think of other benefits to not having a CONCORD transponder implanted in the base of your skull? (which is how I imagine things like instantly appearing in local or the clone network must function)?
Or at least introduce information integrity factors with a new "infomorph integrity" skill. Basically, you have x% chance of losing a given amount of skillpoints upon being podded. The higher the integrity skill is trained, the less chance you have of taking clone damage.
Just because we are immortal, it does not mean we are invulnerable Profit favors the prepared |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
80
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Posted - 2013.02.18 02:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Players should be able to opt into permadeath; no access to the clone network.
Benefits include: You don't show up in local. You don't show up in other peoples killmails. Gate guns ignore you.
Anyone think of other benefits to not having a CONCORD transponder implanted in the base of your skull? (which is how I imagine things like instantly appearing in local or the clone network must function)?
Or at least introduce information integrity factors with a new "infomorph integrity" skill. Basically, you have x% chance of losing a given amount of skillpoints upon being podded. The higher the integrity skill is trained, the less chance you have of taking clone damage. Just because we are immortal, it does not mean we are invulnerable
Clone degradation would be awesome too.
I mean its like you take a copy of a copy of a copy. Eventually you wind up like the Asgard.
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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
517
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Posted - 2013.02.18 02:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Much more. ALSO I noticed clones double charge us. I paid x amount of isk for a clone after the last time I was podded. Then, after being podded again, I was charged the cost of the clone. What's up with that? There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
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