posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve. I hear constantly that even high sec is not to be considered safe only safer so find it difficult to understand which this particular activity is completely risk free.

If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.

Notes: You will be immobile for 30 seconds after firing this weapon. You will be unable to activate your jump drive or cloaking device for ten minutes after firing this weapon.

posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in docking mechanisms to reduce AFK docking.

I have no issues with people being able to be docked / hide from people while they are active in game. But AFK docking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve. I hear constantly that even high sec is not to be considered safe only safer so find it difficult to understand which this particular activity is completely risk free.

If docking were changed so that we had to manually redock ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock i might get hot dropped, but why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone like me to AFK hide?

and yet neither of you have given a reason why any change is needed.

So if we are happy with risk free activity in low sec / null sec why do people keep critizing people in high sec when they complaining about being ganked. Surely low risk fits with the ethos of game rather than no risk???

I talk of null sec spying.

Actually you posted ideas that nerfs cloaking.

Yes in Null Sec where you would expect someone to be able to have full control over their own system. There needs to be a counter, with my idea it would be a massivly expensive counter, which would take time and effort, and be a risk to the titan also. Would limit the ships use also, to being one niche.

The mechanics of eve without any local would change massivly, would be interesting to see how it turns out.

People would be using directional scan like its a click for **** button.

Yes in Null Sec where you would expect someone to be able to have full control over their own system. There needs to be a counter, with my idea it would be a massivly expensive counter, which would take time and effort, and be a risk to the titan also. Would limit the ships use also, to being one niche.

A counter to what exactly? A counter to your own cowardice? A counter to someone who isn't actually doing anything to anyone?

Why, exactly, is it a bad thing for me to be able to cloak up in your system and go afk, but a good thing for you to be able to dock or POS up and go afk? We're both as invulnerable as the other, and we both have the same effect on eachother's gameplay, IE we're a name in local that you can't find. That's it. Neither of us can do anything to the other without losing our invulnerability.

What you talking about lol? I just drop a super cap fleet on that pos and take it down, then kill you. how do i uncloak you and kill you?

Actually you put the pos into reinforced and wait how ever long the stront lasts. In other words, safe until DT if setup correctly.

Ok and then I can kill you right? That is a counter. There is no counter for the cloak.

Well if I warp off after you've put it into reinforced then no and no one with any sense logs off in a pos in case it does get zapped while you are away. I'm not sure what argument you think you have here.

Oh and cloaks do have a counter and they also have massive drawbacks when activated.

You're getting off topic to what im saying, this is directed to safe spot afk cloaking and spying when needed.

People use HICS for a reason. There is a counter, there is a counter to all of what your saying, please tell me the counter for finding someone afk, in a random safe spot cloaked.

posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve.

If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.

Yes in Null Sec where you would expect someone to be able to have full control over their own system.

You decide you could kill me on a whim inside a pos shield, sorry you got it wrong and went off topic. A hic is not a counter to me sitting safe inside a pos shield, again what argument do you think you have here?

Why should you need to find someone AFK in a safe spot? The fact you already know he's in the system, is a massive intel advantage.

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.

exactly, this is why people sit afk in some systems, for diminishing the information intel is giving away for your advantage. There is no other counter against local.

Ok your ability to try and bring up every obvious reason is baffling.

First I was answering Danikas message on the comparison to POS and afk cloak counters, i'm sorry if you felt you were a part of that.

The HIC was in response to you saying there was no counter to someone sitting save in a POS warping away from being in the POS, just showing you there was a counter.

Because it stops you performing strategic operations. The unknown gives you a massive tactical advantage, Internal spys and scouting is how it should be leaked. Much like in modern warfare, you countinue to develop counters to everything which gives others an advantage over you.

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.

What you talking about lol? I just remove anti-cyno, and then drop a super cap fleet on that pos and take it down, then kill you. how do i uncloak you and kill you?

So little faith in POS bashing :)

Nah, it's more of an understanding of game mechanics tbh.

Just lol, your thought of its as impossible to take down a POS as it is to find a cloaked frig in billions M^3 space. But ofc you will know so much better than me that there is no counter to POS', just as random SP cloaked frigs.

There is a counter, there is a counter to all of what your saying, please tell me the counter for finding someone afk, in a random safe spot cloaked.

posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve. I hear constantly that even high sec is not to be considered safe only safer so find it difficult to understand which this particular activity is completely risk free.

If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work

someone proposed that the cloaking system should consume the capacitor so that after x minutes - if you don't do anything - you simply decloak.

If you're not afk you warp to a safe spot... and reload your capacitor... if you're afk, you're probed and then killed.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work

someone proposed that the cloaking system should consume the capacitor so that after x minutes - if you don't do anything - you simply decloak.

If you're not afk you warp to a safe spot... and reload your capacitor... if you're afk, you're probed and then killed.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work

It would also break cloaking.

The real question remains: why is AFK cloaking a problem that needs to be solved?

Simply add in AFK timer and everyone is happy but that wouldn't go too well since all of you cloaker alt owners in this thread would actually have to be on keyboard during the day.

And if you think that there is a problem that they know you're active, well it just means that you have be as much on keyboard as they do for your so called asset denial.

Because you paid billions of upgrading sov to be turned useless because you cannot use the system on anything useful when there's some fagget sitting 23/7 with a cloaky rapier.

So main issue here is that you lose 100milions of worth isk to something you cannot counter against with any meaningful way.

Just lol, your thought of its as impossible to take down a POS as it is to find a cloaked frig in billions M^3 space.

But ofc you will know so much better than me that there is no counter to POS', just as random SP cloaked frigs.

[quote=Sloppyslug]

There is a counter to cloaking, but what you are asking for is extra power on top of the already powerful local intel tool. That is not a balanced approach.

Counter to cloaking are:

1. Stay aligned: A cloaker (except for StealthBomber) has a minimum 5 seconds delay after uncloaking. So if you are aligned you jused press the warp button once you see him uncloaking next to you. StealthBombers don't have this delay, but they are so fragile that you can pop them with just a set of small drones.

2. Have friends in your system: Cloakers have not much dps, so if you don't manage to escape by warping away you usually have more than enough time to call your friends to chase him of or kill him before you are really in danger of dying.

Oh cool I missed that, what exactly is the counter for cloaking?? I didnt realise there was actually a counter to a random person sitting in middle of space cloaked for 23.5 hours per day for weeks at a time. I understand you might be able to catch someone on way into system but once they are in and cloaked to my knowledge there is nothing you can do about it although i would be really grateful uf you could share what it is i missed.

Someone being able to log in with absolutely no risk from downtime to downtime for me is an issue. Even if you had to do something to maintain cloak every 4 hours or even 6 hours that wouldnt affect ability to provide intelligence or what ever other arguement people have for people being able to cloak for 23.5 hours per day. The issue is most of time it isnt about intelligence or anything else its purely a way of providing grief. Im all for people being able to provide grief and play game any way they choose I just think that everytime you undock there has to be a degree of risk. Using arguement that being docked is risk free doesnt hold - being docked is supposed to be only safe thing you can do in eve or am i missing something else??

Because you paid billions of upgrading sov to be turned useless because you cannot use the system on anything useful when there's some fagget sitting 23/7 with a cloaky rapier.

What are you guys thinking about this proposal?

Not avoiding issue at all. Couldnt care less if we had a local channel. To be honest I would be open to that being removed also. I spend very little time ratting I actually play game to kill people - killing people more difficult when you jump into local and they can see you. Not having a local channel would be nice at times. Not quite sure how the two issues are linked if im completely honest though - not sure we have AFK cloakies because we have a local channel.

Removing local would mean you have to be careful but anyone hunting in a system is just as likely to warp into your pvp fleet and therefore runs the same risks. AFK cloakies have no risks and still would have no risk if there was no local channel.

I could set my alarm clock by the regularity of these whine threads

So in this day and age it is my opinion that the so called ~elite PvPers~ got terribly spoiled by the Covert Ops Cloaking Device. In essence, they love the thrill of the hunt, but they tremble in fear and/or go into denial mode at the slight possibility of one day being the hunted themselves.

I have no problem in flying through space in a fast ship with no cloak and fool the hunters for hours who simply cannot probe me down, but most people nowadays seem to think that unless you have a cloak, you're dead meat. And both me and a very large part of your playerbase (albeit most for different motivations) feel that this needs to change, and that we need a method however troublesome of probing down and finding a cloaked ship.


I'm not going to invent ideas because these have been discussed ad-nauseum and scorned by people who hold double-standards, however one idea in particular i somewhat liked is that of a T2 probe that, when 100% result is achieved, drops you within 10 to 30km of the cloaked ship. What i like about it is that its ridiculously easy for the cloaked pilot to prevent being detected by just A) warping to a different safespot still cloaked or B) move around a little bit. However, unless the pilot ACTS, he is going to be found. (Even if he is moving/orbiting something). It goes perfectly well with that most of us have been taught that the only 100% safe place in EVE is inside a station, and it can hardly be considered a nerf. It will only add to the game, and make cloak-camping a system that much more fun and rewarding.



So TL;DR. Pilots who fly cloak ships today and dislike any changes to the status-quo are spoiled brats, double-standard holders that like to pose as badass hunters, but cant possibly fathom the idea of being the hunted themselves. They want to hunt the perfect target while being 100% safe, and that is simply pathetic.

... however one idea in particular i somewhat liked is that of a T2 probe that, when 100% result is achieved, drops you within 10 to 30km of the cloaked ship. What i like about it is that its ridiculously easy for the cloaked pilot to prevent being detected by just A) warping to a different safespot still cloaked or B) move around a little bit. However, unless the pilot ACTS, he is going to be found. (Even if he is moving/orbiting something). It goes perfectly well with that most of us have been taught that the only 100% safe place in EVE is inside a station, and it can hardly be considered a nerf. It will only add to the game, and make cloak-camping a system that much more fun and rewarding.

It's not his fault that you choose not to use the system.
Since you lose it because you choose to, the counter is fairly obvious: choose not to.

So, really, why is AFK cloaking a problem that needs to be solved?

So you what happens your cloaker has 5 alts ignore those upgraded systems as well ?
You do realise that bills keep going on whether you use those systems or not.

So AFK is problem because it's too easy way to deny assets by just sitting there.

Moving to other system is not an answer because it takes several days to get upgrade lvls to any meaningful lvl (mainly 3) by which time the system that you just dropped is back to 0 by the time you get another system to 3.

Ofc. there should be risks but AFK cloking goes beyond game mechanics into meta gaming.

Come up with a solution that doesn't break other aspects of the game (such as wormholes), balances things and creates a bit more of a dynamic approach to things while preserving the fact that null space is intended to be a dangerous place to live.

Cloak detection or auto-decloaking break the wormhole aspect, so you'll need to start somewhere else.

So you what happens your cloaker has 5 alts ignore those upgraded systems as well ?

You do realise that bills keep going on whether you use those systems or not.

So AFK is problem because it's too easy way to deny assets by just sitting there.

It saddens to see that people just don' get it how easily a hulk dies no matter what or the cans it happens to be mining in to or haulers hauling those cans.
All you need is 1 bs rat, a few cruisers and your hulk is dead, unless fitted with dead space gear ...

Now enter a bomber in this picture and you get the where the problem with unlimited cloaking is, all you need is to see a hulk being targeted by rats and one bomb end the hulk from it's misery or a torp for that matter and his cans ofc.
There is no such thing as passive align and since hulk is also one the slowest ships in the game it has virtually no chance of running.
Hence there needs to be way to counter cloaking, placing bubbles ever which way has never stopped any bomber from killing a hulk neither does any sort of defence fleet.

Hence above is virtually risk free for a bomber; you do know that a bomber has a max range of 96km's ?
Try defending your hulks & haulers & cans against that ...

who shoots at hulk from 86km???

-Cloaked ships can not use scanning, directional or probing, as it will interfere with their cloak systems. (exception is the stealth recon)

Due to lack of response from another thread. I'm posting this here aswell to get some feedback.

What do you guys think about these suggestions to cloak?

-Players do not show up on local after a gate jump before you become active or the timeout expires.
-During the standby a ship with a cloakmodule can activate the cloak without first becoming active.
-Players with an active cloak will remain hidden from local untill the cloak deactivates. After that the player will remain on local untill he/she changes system.
-Ships with a cov ops role can warp while cloaked. (stealth bombers, stealth recon and black ops. Other ships will decloak on warp).
-Cloaked ships can not use scanning, directional or probing, as it will interfere with their cloak systems. (exception is the stealth recon)

Regarding probes - This is a pretty serious nerf to exploration ships - covops, T1 exploration frigs, non-recon exploration ships.

Regarding directional scanner - non-covops-cloak ships are already pretty gimped by fitting the non-covops
cloak, making them blind and deaf IMO is already too much.

What about a timer to prevent cloaking for 3/15min (aggression timers ) once you aggress something ?

This would still allow the your old habits but it would give at least a chance to catch that cloaker once he has engaged.
Naturally this would mess up the bomber fleets gunning posses a bit but it would give at least some lvl of increased risk for the aggressor.
This change would force the attacker to stay on the move once he has aggressed instead of the usual "1 hulk down, yep it's time get to work/sleep/bang the girl friend"- AFK method which you can obviously do once you have jumped between the safes for a few minutes.

@Ingvar Angst.

Thanks for the colorful reply.

Could you tell me how it completely wrecks intel gathering in wromholes? cant work with nothing.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Of course. Consider, for example, you're investigating a hole for a potential op. The first and foremost thing is to get in there unseen... if they know you're there it changes everything. So, you hop in in your covops, cloak immediately and hit dscan. Ah, two pos's on scan, both have forcefields, a few ships seen. (If you can see them in dscan, they can see you, unless you're cloaked.) So now you adjust the angle of dscan down and you narrow down the planet(s) with the pos's at them. You select a planet, warp to the planet and adjust your overview to show moons. Again, you adjust the angle of the dscan to narrow down and isolate the moon the pos is at. Find the moon, warp to 100km or so, BM the pos. Ah, there's a few ships here, with pilots in them. OK, time to take a few names, get the corp and alliance info, etc.

Rinse, repeat for all pos's, making sure you get all planets covered.

Now tell me... how is this humanly possible if I can't use my DScan while cloaked?

This is only one example. Let's take it a bit further. You find a nice little place to sit, watching what appears to be the more active pos while watching DScan to detect the comings and going of the other pos. Again, gathering vital intel. Again, can't do this if you can't use dscan while cloaked.

If you're still having doubts, go spend a month or two in a hole and get back to us. You will be... enlightened.

This is the role a stealth recon should have don't you think?

Only if you read far too much into the verbiage of the ship title. In which case, you might consider CovOps as a Covert Ops scout. The only way I'd be in support of removing functionality of intel reporting from the covert ops line (Scout, Bomber, Force, and Battleship) is if they boosted probes within those ships to the point where the functionality was equivalent, and then, what'd be the point, beyond the heavy coding it would likely take to preclude d-scan if you happened to also use a cloak on your ship?

The only thing wrong with the cloak is the perception that the space should belong completely and only to the alliance registered to it. There is no functionality problem with the cloak itself, or ships that use it. If the person operating the cloak is actually active and operating, the strategies for keeping yourself from becoming a victim to it are widely known. If the cloaker is inactive, the only problem is your perception that someone shouldn't be in your environment, i.e. that your space should be safe.

Eve should never be safe.

Excactly!

That is what I percieve cov-ops of being. Intel gathering scout ships. or behind-the-line-harass ships.

That is why I think you should be able to get in unnoticed in a cov-ops ship if you do it right. If you decide to get some information on enemy systems then you should, even without being seen. But not in whatever ship you want, that obsolete the cov-ops as that type of role, since all can fit a cloak and be a pain.

You use the Stealth recon to be the intel gatherer. After you have scouted you can deploy the steath bombers.
If an oportunity arises you can get a black ops in, and deploy a cyno, TOTAL MAYHEM! and noone saw it coming!

Full utilization should be given to ships that have steath as a role, not equal to everyone.

Here's where the idea completely fails.

Wormholes.

In wormholes, being undetectable while cloaked is a vital part of the whole. It's necessary, for example, to have your cloaked ship parked for days or even weeks in an enemy system while gathering intel in preparations for an op. If you allow any type of probes (or other means) to be able to detect cloaked ships, you're completely changing the entire wormhole paradigm to the point that it will be almost a requirement to have someone parked somewhere with these probes out constantly scanning the system for the slightest whiff of a cloaked vessel. You would, effectively, nerf the living hell out of the inherent dangers of wormhole living...

Come up with a solution that doesn't break other aspects of the game (such as wormholes), balances things and creates a bit more of a dynamic approach to things while preserving the fact that null space is intended to be a dangerous place to live.

Cloak detection or auto-decloaking break the wormhole aspect, so you'll need to start somewhere else.

[quote=Ingvar Angst][quote=Renan Ruivo]

Hi. My Name's Jimmy. I'm a cloaky...

I don't know if there is a major problem with AFK cloaking, but it does seem just a teensy bit unfair that there is no risk to provide a constant implied threat with essentially zero effort (AFK being the least effort possible) - it's the combination of these factors that tips the balance SLIGHTLY in the direction of the cloaky. I don't like the idea of being decloaked any more than the next cloaky - quite frankly, the ships are fragile as hell - especially bombers. I think the general idea is that it should be POSSIBLE... SOMEHOW... to counter and prevent this psychological tactic, not just ignore and prepare - the question is exactly how to make it fair for everyone - possible, but not easy.

I've read many suggestions as I browsed through the forums, and many seem to break something that otherwise works pretty well. I see how some claim it's meta gaming (when you're AFK, you're not playing - by definition, I would say that's "meta"), but I'm also generally a fan of not breaking or nerfing an existing game function (as in lower stats or remove capabilities) -- instead, I am a proponent of providing one option for a counter to a tactic. So, concerning the T2 Probes idea quoted above, that sounds pretty decent at first, except that it breaks a big part of wormholes... How about this for a solution?

T2 probes called something like "Covert Combat Probes" - essentially combat probes but a little weaker, which plays into the next part. These probes - by themselves - are inferior to standard combat probes, which are of course inferior to Sister's Combat Probes. Most of the time, they are simply weaker versions of the standard equivalents (similar to T2 strip miners), but are usable in a pinch. However, there's another part to the equation: some sort of high-CPU-and-Power POS module or SOV upgrade (or a combination of the two) that has an affect system wide to generate subtle signals in a cloaking field that can be faintly detected by these special probes.

A simple POS module would require onlining time and be expensive enough to run so that it would be completely impractical - if even theoretically possible - to run constantly, but COULD be used in a WH. To completely eliminate WH use, make it a strategic sovereignty upgrade (level 3 or so) or make it require one - like "Cloaking Disruption" or "Cloaking Perturbation".

Depending upon what the devs think about this possibility, it could make T1 cloaks easier to detect or even have a significant effect on them (like make them not work?) while allowing the greatly superior covert ops cloaks to still function, but become barely detectable with the specialized equipment. - this would, of course, make BOBS detectable and visible, so its up to the implementers...

This idea would require significant resources and preparation on the part of the system "holder" (SOV Upgrade and/or POS module, PLUS an available T2 prober, PLUS extra fuel usage PLUS onlining time) but still make it POSSIBLE to defend themselves against this tactic. The significant cost of running the system would mean there would have to be someone in local (and probably for a long time) before you even thought of turning the thing on.

Once this module/structure is online, the Covert Combat Probes would be able to detect cloaked ships - but not very accurately. Every warpable signature would only get you on the grid (or maybe somewhere within 20-30(-50??) km) - YOU would have to send a bunch of ships to flush out an AFK cloaker - avoiding such a fleet would be beyond simple for a cloaky sitting at his desk: right click -> warp to 100K (or similar)... or even double click in space. A somewhat reasonable defense for AFK cloakies might even be to simply keep moving (though you could end up moving TOWARDS the fleet...)

Commentary welcome :D

I know most of these are pretty basic, but I hate it when people use acronyms/abbreviations I don't know...
AFK: Away From Keyboard -- WH: Worm Hole -- POS: Player Owned Starbase -- SOV: Sovereignty -- BOBS: Black Ops Battle Ships -- T1/T2: Tech I/II

Only if you read far too much into the verbiage of the ship title. In which case, you might consider CovOps as a Covert Ops scout. The only way I'd be in support of removing functionality of intel reporting from the covert ops line (Scout, Bomber, Force, and Battleship) is if they boosted probes within those ships to the point where the functionality was equivalent, and then, what'd be the point, beyond the heavy coding it would likely take to preclude d-scan if you happened to also use a cloak on your ship?

The only thing wrong with the cloak is the perception that the space should belong completely and only to the alliance registered to it. There is no functionality problem with the cloak itself, or ships that use it. If the person operating the cloak is actually active and operating, the strategies for keeping yourself from becoming a victim to it are widely known. If the cloaker is inactive, the only problem is your perception that someone shouldn't be in your environment, i.e. that your space should be safe.

Eve should never be safe.

Better idea: just disable most forms of intel gathering beyond what's on grid while cloaked.

That will break the point of being behind enemy lines, hidden and gathering intel.

We DONT want to break or change the cloakie mechanics.

WE DONT have any problem whith cloakies whatsoever,

WE HAVE a problem with Afking.

Remove Local Chat Intel.

If you're sitting cloaked 150k off a gate gathering intel on fleets, or recon'ing structures, how would disabling probes and d-scan while cloaked interfere with that?

Sitting uncloaked in a safe spot in an frigate (!) while you probe is too much risk for you?

Make it so cloaked people don't show up in local.

I can't wait to see the carnage when a fleet of a few hundred rapid on/off cloakers park in someone's system!

Or remove local entirely, and make D-scan require capacitor.

Let me put it another way, by making a statement.

Predatory PvP where an individual (or group) kills another player(s) engaging in PvE should be a relatively common occurrence in EVE. Further, that no player engaging in PvE that can be considered to generate good income for a non newbie player should be free from the possibility of unwanted PvP

So it should be no problem if I want to predatory pvp your cloaked up ship with my cloak hunter ship. You certainly wouldn't want your cloaky ship to be 'free from the possibility of unwanted PvP', after all. Oh no. So congrats Xorv on seeing the light and embracing the cloak-hunter ship.

posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve. I hear constantly that even high sec is not to be considered safe only safer so find it difficult to understand which this particular activity is completely risk free.

If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.

So it should be no problem if I want to predatory pvp your cloaked up ship with my cloak hunter ship. You certainly wouldn't want your cloaky ship to be 'free from the possibility of unwanted PvP', after all. Oh no. So congrats Xorv on seeing the light and embracing the cloak-hunter ship.

Like Covert Kitty, I'm not against a means to hunt cloaked ships, but only in the absence of Local Chat Intel and other game considerations such as it not be a means of empowering gate campers. Because surely you don't think zone camping is good gameplay either?

I've never seen an AFK gate camp.

I've never seen an AFK gate camp.
But why are you against players actively seeking PVP?

this has been already discussed million of times, read all threads.

Hey man, I strongly believe in what Xorv says, that 'no ship should free from the possibility of unwanted PvP'. It turned out he forgot to add in brackets "(except when it's my ship and they outnumber me)".

I've never seen an AFK cloaker either.

In fact unless there's some new fancy bot programs I haven't heard about no one in EVE has ever lost a ship to an "AFK cloaker".

27:2 And Ye, thou shall not drop thy cloak, for thine enemies would rapidly come upon thee with all manner of wrath. Rather, be blessed in peace by devout adherence to the tranquility offered by your cloak. May it cycle endlessly, amen

Hey man, I strongly believe in what Xorv says, that 'no ship should free from the possibility of unwanted PvP'. It turned out he forgot to add in brackets "(except when it's my ship and they outnumber me)".

AFK cloakers? Absurd idea.

Maybe you have not noticed, but for many ships speed is terribly reduced when you engage a cloak. Add to that, the terrible burden, (for most ships), of not being able to warp cloaked.

The ones you hurtfully call AFK Cloakers, are, in fact, purists. They are trying to travel around the system in cloaked vessels peacefully, but due to game restrictions, they must do so at an incredibly slow speed. They cannot even warp, in the majority of ships, without decloaking. And they refuse to do that, on religious principles of the divine cloak.

So ships in stations too for unwanted pvp??

Didnt get your bracket thing..

Also Local Has NOTHING to do with the matter