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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:23:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Arcticblue2
Originally by: Ranger 1
You should NOT have a proffession with absolutely no risk... period.
I am happy we agree on something then, most people who are against orethiefs agree with you here, Orethief are a no risk proffession, we all agree on that, and we all want that to be dealt with!!! even you it seems like.
What's next?
Fatal explosions at your research agents station?
Industrial accidents in your factory?
Head stuck in the Xerox when making BPC's?
When will it all end?
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Siri Danae
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:26:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Avon
Head stuck in the Xerox when making BPC's?
When will it all end?
Well, it will be tough to top that.
------
I generally assume the following:
1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers.
2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears.
3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners. |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:32:00 -
[93]
I think ore thieves should be flagged for the whole corp this would incourage teamplay and people to join a corp. it would also mean that the pvp/griefers wouldn't be able to fly over in a Apoc to challenge someones 200k kessy.
After all 15 minutes flagged aint long and they can hide in station before you have a chance to get your fighter ship.
Ore thieves and alts think flagging is stupid and "its usually a bored pvper" as one said. I think if you allow the corp your in to help kill the ore thief it would incourage more players to particapate in pvp game play.
This would stop "the bored pvpers" from being bored and make everyone happy and excited  .
Those that dont like the flagging are most probably griefers anyways and ruining the game for everyone else. Either let miners have fun or give them containers the size of industrial ship hulls.
Cos like it or not ccp theres people in this game that like the pvp side and theres others that like the monopoly side. Fact is theres more monopoly players than pvper's, get use to it.
in answer to someones comment about no risk v reward using an industrial to mine, suicide alt --> kill indy --> risk 
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Dsanta2345
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: dadar
I know there prob is hundreds of these posts but ore thiefs need to be dealt with. of course cpp doesn't care they would chose to reward thos who prefer to ruin the game time of others with no risk what so ever to themselves.
if you chose to even try and attack the ore thief concord responds so quick you can't takethem out with out useing a 100mil ship to do it then you lose theshiip makeing it evenmore stupid. takeing items out of a can droped bysomebody not in your gang should be considered an aggresive act that would allow other players to deal withthos attempting to steal from them. or atleast have concord deal with them. what kind of law enforcment kills the victim of a crime and not the one who comits the crime?
but like I said cpp doesn't care or they would fix this for players but of course if they cared they would do alot ofthings i guess.
how long have you been playing?
i assume not that long, as ccp has already explained:
"well...using unsecure containers to mine was not something that was planned by us really. the unsecure containers were designed to hold unwatned garbage and loot. things that anyone could take. this makes them well..unsecure and not good places to store valuables. therefore players use them at their own risk."
[GM]Guard
Support Xfire
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Black Widow66
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:39:00 -
[95]
Those that like Gabbys thread SIGN!
COS I THINK ITS A GREAT IDEA
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:48:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Arcticblue2
Originally by: Ranger 1
You should NOT have a proffession with absolutely no risk... period.
I am happy we agree on something then, most people who are against orethiefs agree with you here, Orethief are a no risk proffession, we all agree on that, and we all want that to be dealt with!!! even you it seems like.
What's next?
Fatal explosions at your research agents station?
Industrial accidents in your factory?
Head stuck in the Xerox when making BPC's?
When will it all end?
I take it you've never done a research agent mission that involved risk or flying in dangerous territory with expensive items on board. Or had that agent for months, perhaps spending a large amount of isk to do his errands, and got a crap BPO from him. I will also point out that the better research agents are often in the more dangerous systems, hopefully we will see more of that.
I take it you've never lost a hauler full of expensive components/minerals/finished product, to suicide squads. This also in part ties into the risk involved with ore theives, as you generally mine before you can produce.
I take it you've never relocated a BP and been scanned in the process, or lost your labs because someone else bought them up (not as much of an issue now). It also makes me wonder if you've done your math as to how much profit you make off the copies compared to the lab fee's necessary to make the copies and your initial investment in the BPO. Perhaps you have, hope you never have an accident while moving that origonal around.
Not all risks in this game are purely PVP oriented.
Ore thieves live on the scraps of others, it is hardly a viable profession. No real character advancement is available to them, and the take is rather pathetic.
I will also point out that the profits reaped from those pursuits listed above tend to be higher in lower security space (not as much as it should be, but its getting there).
I'm not going to explain the game from the ground up youngling, your argument against ore thieves was lost a looong time ago.
That's not a moon... that's my POS
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:56:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Avon on 02/08/2005 15:58:05
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Arcticblue2
Originally by: Ranger 1
You should NOT have a proffession with absolutely no risk... period.
I am happy we agree on something then, most people who are against orethiefs agree with you here, Orethief are a no risk proffession, we all agree on that, and we all want that to be dealt with!!! even you it seems like.
What's next?
Fatal explosions at your research agents station?
Industrial accidents in your factory?
Head stuck in the Xerox when making BPC's?
When will it all end?
I take it you've never done a research agent mission that involved risk or flying in dangerous territory with expensive items on board. Or had that agent for months, perhaps spending a large amount of isk to do his errands, and got a crap BPO from him. I will also point out that the better research agents are often in the more dangerous systems, hopefully we will see more of that.
You don't have to do anything to research after you have told the agent what to do. All the missions are nothing more than a bonus. Quote:
I take it you've never lost a hauler full of expensive components/minerals/finished product, to suicide squads. This also in part ties into the risk involved with ore theives, as you generally mine before you can produce.
That would be hauling, not producing Quote:
I take it you've never relocated a BP and been scanned in the process, or lost your labs because someone else bought them up (not as much of an issue now). It also makes me wonder if you've done your math as to how much profit you make off the copies compared to the lab fee's necessary to make the copies and your initial investment in the BPO. Perhaps you have, hope you never have an accident while moving that origonal around.
That would be hauling, not making BPC's. Oh, and FYI I know exactly how much profit there was/is to be made from bpc's. Far too much. Quote:
Not all risks in this game are purely PVP oriented.
Ore thieves live on the scraps of others, it is hardly a viable profession. No real character advancement is available to them, and the take is rather pathetic.
I will also point out that the profits reaped from those pursuits listed above tend to be higher in lower security space (not as much as it should be, but its getting there).
No they aren't. Quote:
I'm not going to explain the game from the ground up youngling, your argument against ore thieves was lost a looong time ago.
Er, when did I start arguing against them?
They profit from lazy, stupid people who have no concept of personal responsibility - fair play.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.08.02 16:55:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/08/2005 16:57:54
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 02/08/2005 15:58:05
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Arcticblue2
Originally by: Ranger 1
You should NOT have a proffession with absolutely no risk... period.
I am happy we agree on something then, most people who are against orethiefs agree with you here, Orethief are a no risk proffession, we all agree on that, and we all want that to be dealt with!!! even you it seems like.
What's next?
Fatal explosions at your research agents station?
Industrial accidents in your factory?
Head stuck in the Xerox when making BPC's?
When will it all end?
I take it you've never done a research agent mission that involved risk or flying in dangerous territory with expensive items on board. Or had that agent for months, perhaps spending a large amount of isk to do his errands, and got a crap BPO from him. I will also point out that the better research agents are often in the more dangerous systems, hopefully we will see more of that.
You don't have to do anything to research after you have told the agent what to do. All the missions are nothing more than a bonus. Quote:
I take it you've never lost a hauler full of expensive components/minerals/finished product, to suicide squads. This also in part ties into the risk involved with ore theives, as you generally mine before you can produce.
That would be hauling, not producing Quote:
I take it you've never relocated a BP and been scanned in the process, or lost your labs because someone else bought them up (not as much of an issue now). It also makes me wonder if you've done your math as to how much profit you make off the copies compared to the lab fee's necessary to make the copies and your initial investment in the BPO. Perhaps you have, hope you never have an accident while moving that origonal around.
That would be hauling, not making BPC's. Oh, and FYI I know exactly how much profit there was/is to be made from bpc's. Far too much. Quote:
Not all risks in this game are purely PVP oriented.
Ore thieves live on the scraps of others, it is hardly a viable profession. No real character advancement is available to them, and the take is rather pathetic.
I will also point out that the profits reaped from those pursuits listed above tend to be higher in lower security space (not as much as it should be, but its getting there).
No they aren't. Quote:
I'm not going to explain the game from the ground up youngling, your argument against ore thieves was lost a looong time ago.
Er, when did I start arguing against them?
They profit from lazy, stupid people who have no concept of personal responsibility - fair play.
Ahh, truth to be told, that last comment was not directed at you.
I do find it interesting that you see no connection between production and hauling. By your definition, its not the miners suffering from Ore theft (after all, they mined the ore successfully), but the poor haulers that are not able to get to those jet cans quickly enough to keep them from being pilfered. Oh wait, those miners ARE the haulers as well you say? I direct you to your comments above.
Research agents are a bit of a wierd bird I'll admit, although its been discussed tweaking things so that you can't ignore them completely any longer. However, I cannot really consider Research Agents a profession (and yes, I've had research agents since the first day they became available) as you cannot make any sort of survivable income from them. They simply are a sidenote that may or may not enhance the quality of the product lines you produce by coughing up a T2 BPO.
At least we are on the same page concerning ore theft.
"edit" For clarification.
That's not a moon... that's my POS
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.08.02 16:58:00 -
[99]
It's simple - risk vs reward. Ore thief = all reward no risk. Make it so they can be shot after nabbing something and you introduce risk.
Or mine low sec, it's much more peaceful and quiet. Rarely get bothered. Doesn't mean that people who mine high sec should be defenseless though. Make the ore thieves suffer the same risk vs. reward that is supposed to exist.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.02 19:03:00 -
[100]
Nothing is going to happen to ore thiefs. CCP actually likes them. Why, because they help drive people out of high sec space. Same as the sucide gankers.
CCP really likes people dieing in high sec space and moving to low sec or better yet 0.0 - IMHO I think CCP is all pirates at heart and is looking for ways to drive more prey out to be targets :P
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2005.08.02 19:09:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Nothing is going to happen to ore thiefs. CCP actually likes them. Why, because they help drive people out of high sec space. Same as the sucide gankers.
They are also a bane on ppl using eula-vilating mining behaviour (I hope that is sufficiently vague) which is another reason I suspect they like them.
That said, there should be an option for active, alert miners using jet cans. I like the idea of personally being flagged to the pilot and his gang/corp if you take anything from a can he jetted ONLY while he is within 5 KMs of it. Ownership of the can (for flagging purposes) would be lost permanently if you move more than 5 KM from the can.
Seems fair, seems hard to exploit...
BW
Originally by: Pallas Athene
I¦m using voice recognition software - where my fingers get stuck isn¦t your concern sweetheart
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jono nomac
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:00:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Eviljohn
Even when ore thiefs are in corps you can war dec u dont.
The truth is the ore thiefs are preying on lazy idiots that cant adapt there game play and move away from the core systems and cry because they might have to use there brains for more then dragging and dropping.
I would be embarressed to post a orethief owned me comment on here it just shows how lame u are, but it gives 98 percent of ppl who know how to get around the problem amusment i guess
Says it all |
Repossessed
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:39:00 -
[103]
Meh, leave the mechanics the same. Let the ore thieves steal, let miners jetcan mine, and use some smarts, problem solved.
My fear is that if you continue to ask for a mechanics change, that CCP will change the mechanics, and all of us that mine will like it even less. lol. Seems to happen that way quite a bit.
Roids are a resource, jetcans are part of the current mechanism that miners use to efficiently aquire their resources, and ore thieves are the risk(though you don't see them in low sec for some reason. )
So leave it be. Stop arguing for something that if changed, you'll like even less. Better to argue over something that really matters, like missle changes .
Flying at the speed of sound.......
"Coldplay"
If I want your opinion, I'll get it at missle point.....
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:40:00 -
[104]
the anwser is simple, make ore compress in mineing barges so they can hold a can or more. this would end can mineing and stop people from crying about ore theives.
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.08.05 04:36:00 -
[105]
Waaaaaaaa!
I can't jetcan mine in high security!
Sheesh - get a grip or get a secure can.
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Nicole KholdStare
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Posted - 2005.08.05 08:01:00 -
[106]
*Takes baseball bat and beats the living crap out of the nearest animal with 4 hooves*
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Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:03:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Rick Dentill on 05/08/2005 10:08:37
Ah i love ore thief posts. I was going to post something deep and meaningful but its all been said. All I will add is that there are plenty of ways to protect yourselves against them. At worst it might mean spending a day (*Gasp* shock, horror) setting up secure cans or moving to low sec.
"i use to mine in low sec but decided to try level 3 missions and lost all 3 of my ferox on 3 hard missions back to back."
Its not the ore thieves fault don't take it out on them. Seriously though I know the feeling of losing ships but if you are concerned about mining in low sec then join a corp that will help you out, group mining and the like. EVE is supposed to multiplayer.
_______
Save me Jebus!
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/dd.php |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:13:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Plekto
Waaaaaaaa!
I can't jetcan mine in high security!
Sheesh - get a grip or get a secure can.
And the new winner of the clueless award.
secure cans dont work in high sec above .8 so you do know that sounds pretty clueless, right?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:14:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
secure cans dont work in high sec above .8 so you do know that sounds pretty clueless, right?
0.4-0.8 is also high sec.
[Come to Daddy]
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:18:00 -
[110]
grab 5 buddies form a empire mining corp - 1 hauler for 5 mining ships - you all sit around a can - youre industrial ship with at least 10,000 m3 space. Youre hauler guy hauls it back to station and takes it striaght out of can - ore theives are now less likley to be a problem.
Once finished in the 11km range of mining lasers or 15km for stip miners - move to the next pack of roids and repeat.
Quite simple requires teamwork and someone u can trust not to run off with the minerals but can work very well. Take it in turns to haul and mine that way the workload is shared around - split ISK however u decide to split
Thats high sec minign - low sec well you will need instas perhaps or a few ships to attack rat spawns.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.05 13:27:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
secure cans dont work in high sec above .8 so you do know that sounds pretty clueless, right?
0.4-0.8 is also high sec.
I am guessing your not trying for the cluess award runner up prize and this was a typo since .4 is low sec. This regardless of the fact that most ore thieves live in .9 and above space as they would get wacked in the lower space.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Ogadei
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Posted - 2005.08.05 14:24:00 -
[112]
There are tools and skills to make your mining secure. Use them....problem solved. Choose not to use them, then you accept the risk.
Perhaps it's jetcan mining that's the real problem that needs to be nerfed, not ore thieves.
Maybe permitting ore thieves are CCP's way of balancing the easy road of jet can mining to prevent too much isk generation too quickly.
The whole argument makes as much sense as suggesting that if I kill a MOB, his cargo should me all mine and unable to be looted by someone else even if I leave the system. Just plain goofy.
If some object has value, is unsecured and free floating in space....and Joe Bob in his Yarrr Velator comes across it and takes it, it's not theft, it's just his good luck.
Geronimo was a friend of mine...
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Shidhe
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Posted - 2005.08.05 14:37:00 -
[113]
Can anyone say what is wrong with letting the miners defend their ore without concord intervention? Or are the ore thieves just scared of a few miners shooting them up?
Risk vs reward is what lots of people say... so where is the risk in ore theft?
I bet that not many miners would actually use their right to defend their ore - so the ore thieves neednt quake in their boots too hard, but the right should be there.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.05 14:43:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Avon on 05/08/2005 14:46:18
Originally by: Shidhe
Can anyone say what is wrong with letting the miners defend their ore without concord intervention? Or are the ore thieves just scared of a few miners shooting them up?
Risk vs reward is what lots of people say... so where is the risk in ore theft?
I bet that not many miners would actually use their right to defend their ore - so the ore thieves neednt quake in their boots too hard, but the right should be there.
The problem is what would happen when those same mechanics were used by evil twisted minds to destroy people in 'safe' space.
Besides, it isn't their ore, it belongs to the empires which the miners stole it from.
Also the miners want for them, and their gang mates, to be able to shoot at the "thief", without return fire being allowed.
Those who want the miner ONLY to be able to shoot the thief, and for the thief to be able to return fire, have about the right approach. However, that system would still be used to cause mass grief in safe space.
Things are better now than they would be with any form of flagging.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Amaron Ghant
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Posted - 2005.08.05 14:47:00 -
[115]
The problem as I see it is this.
Mr dodgygeezer flys to a belt and drops a can. Mr innocent comes along and picks it up. Flagged as thief. Dodgygeezer laughing at snaring innocent blows him to pulp.
Thats rather an extreme example of a possible result of flagging people as thieves who pick up cans dropped by other pilots in space.
I¦d rather see EVE stay as it is than risk the possible side effects of a change to jetcan mechanics.
There are methods to avoid ore thieves, use em.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.08.05 15:03:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
secure cans dont work in high sec above .8 so you do know that sounds pretty clueless, right?
0.4-0.8 is also high sec.
I am guessing your not trying for the cluess award runner up prize and this was a typo since .4 is low sec. This regardless of the fact that most ore thieves live in .9 and above space as they would get wacked in the lower space.
in low sec there are NPC pirates. in high sec there are PC ore thieves. deal with it. I have no sympathy for whiny carebears who want to be able to make loads of money in high sec empire with ABSOLUTELY NO RISK.
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Rachag
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Posted - 2005.08.05 15:14:00 -
[117]
i have been mining for over a month now and have come to the conclusion that ore thieves are irrelevant.
if im in 1.0 to 0.8 space i find an out of the way system and jetcan mine to my hearts content and when in 0.7 to 0.5 i use secure containers.
ore thieves are only ever a problem if the miner lets them be one, plan your actions well and they get nothing.
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Shadukar
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Posted - 2005.08.05 17:33:00 -
[118]
Originally by: dadar
I know there prob is hundreds of these posts but ore thiefs need to be dealt with. of course cpp doesn't care they would chose to reward thos who prefer to ruin the game time of others with no risk what so ever to themselves.
if you chose to even try and attack the ore thief concord responds so quick you can't takethem out with out useing a 100mil ship to do it then you lose theshiip makeing it evenmore stupid. takeing items out of a can droped bysomebody not in your gang should be considered an aggresive act that would allow other players to deal withthos attempting to steal from them. or atleast have concord deal with them. what kind of law enforcment kills the victim of a crime and not the one who comits the crime?
but like I said cpp doesn't care or they would fix this for players but of course if they cared they would do alot ofthings i guess.
I was in saila the other night. its a .9 system. some guy shows up in a hauler near my can, Im in my mega. He stole some ore out of the can. I blew his butt out of the stars. Concord never showed up. glitch or what?
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Niiri
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Posted - 2005.08.05 17:38:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Shadukar
Originally by: dadar
I know there prob is hundreds of these posts but ore thiefs need to be dealt with. of course cpp doesn't care they would chose to reward thos who prefer to ruin the game time of others with no risk what so ever to themselves.
if you chose to even try and attack the ore thief concord responds so quick you can't takethem out with out useing a 100mil ship to do it then you lose theshiip makeing it evenmore stupid. takeing items out of a can droped bysomebody not in your gang should be considered an aggresive act that would allow other players to deal withthos attempting to steal from them. or atleast have concord deal with them. what kind of law enforcment kills the victim of a crime and not the one who comits the crime?
but like I said cpp doesn't care or they would fix this for players but of course if they cared they would do alot ofthings i guess.
I was in saila the other night. its a .9 system. some guy shows up in a hauler near my can, Im in my mega. He stole some ore out of the can. I blew his butt out of the stars. Concord never showed up. glitch or what?
Shadukar ftw
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Sleazy Cabbie
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Posted - 2005.08.05 20:41:00 -
[120]
A Rhetorical Question to the OP:
What do you think the use of secure cargo containers and anchoring skill is for? Did they just put that in so nobody would use them?
The truth is that you are not meant to mine efficiently in .8 - 1.0, thats for newbies, stop mining there, we don't need stripminers sitting in newbie zones wiping out the whole asteroid field, not to mention all the f*cking scripters and minebots sitting there with 2 or more accounts sucking down veld while the account holder sleeps.
It is a huge problem, and it will become a bigger problem once the Asian market opens up, we'll have these 50 cents an hour sweatshop labor types sitting there mining veld in 12 hour shifts, especially with freighters there to hold the ore.
Anyway back to ore thieving :
I'm not a big fan of thieves, but if it makes people stop mining in newbie zones then I'm all for it.
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