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Does anyone agree this is an exploit???

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kel Gunrunner	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:15:00 - [1] Hey guys,I recently lost a hauler while traveling through 0.9, I was moving stations at the time and lost 400+ mil worth of T2 and named loot assault frigates, Bpc's, Bpo's, and skill books . This was done by 2 caracals fitted with passive targeters and cargo scanners.They scanned me, then suicide blasted me with a third party in a hauler to pick up my can. This has pretty much cleaned me out, and although tacticly sound, I think its very wrong that for the insignificant sacrifice of 10 mil this kind of thing can be done. It can even be done at no cost by using secondary characters (or even 14 day trial accounts)in frigates to acchive the same sort of thing, ganking haulers, mining barges etc in apparently "safe space" and its the type of thing that realy hurts people in this game If its 0.4 fair enough its your own risk. but surely this defies the point of having a policed system. My suggestion for keeping it in check would be to implement a dammage penalty when firing on none war targets within 0.5 - 1.0 so maybe in 1.0 your guns only do 20% their normal dammage to none war targets, they could even adjust it for the security status, so in 0.5 your guns would do 60% their normal dammage, i dont know, im just gutted about the whole thing and think that ccp need sort this out before evryone starts doing it, because its just far too easy. anyone agree?
Rivek	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:22:00 - [2] This has been going on for ages. Basically anything ccp does to nerf piracy in .4 and below will come back to haunt all those who they were trying to protect. Can't ransom while tanking the sentry fire? Gank and run! Have to go further and further from the sentries to snipe at a gate? Bring more and more people and be further and further out of reach of retaliation. Make piracy in low sec boring as heck because of criminal flagging and low traffic? Everyone either create alts and do the suicide thing or declare war on the largest corps/alliances you can and find them huddling in empire systems. Anyway, you aren't the first to be victim to this, and you wont be the last. Lesson learned: YOU ARE NOT TOTALLY SAFE ANYWHERE. And for CCP: Nerfing piracy does not make for happy carebears! ---------------------------------------------- TunDraGon.com
Kel Gunrunner	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:33:00 - [3] There will always be pirates, iv been one myself and if ur stupid enough to run through 0.4 with no instas and lots of valuables your asking to be killed, I just think the alt empire ganking is getting rediculous.u wanna kill carebears pop em in 0.4 when there mining lol or declare war on em but to alot of guys carbear play is their whole game, and theres nothing u can do to stop yourself getting ganked by alts in kestrils when your chilling through 1.0 grabbing that cup of tea, i just think its totaly harsh
aeti	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Kel Gunrunner theres nothing u can do to stop yourself getting ganked by alts in kestrils when your chilling through 1.0 grabbing that cup of tea erm theres lots :/
Sorja	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:36:00 - [5] Empire pirates == carebears. But opinions are like *******s, everybody's got one That reminds me of the old times on Ultima Online and the plague of the 'blue healers', which means some guys were true PKs (like minus 10 in EVE, I respect that) and other lamers were not and were just helping them without being at risk, like the hauler that picked your loot after your ship was shot down.
Imfir	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:43:00 - [6] that is almost as bad as when I disconnected in a .5 system to log in and see your damage turning red, 3 times, then podded . . and your no longer in the system you disconnected in, I'm in a 0.4 system. losing 3 ships before I can complete log in, and zoomed in so damn close you can not see any thing, then WTF I am in a POD ??? then see your not in the system you disconnected in. I know the feeling, but my case is different then yours . . I would not have felt so upset if I was in a 0.4 system, but I wasn't . . and then I was, when I should not have been.
Necrologic	Posted - 2005.08.02 04:43:00 - [7] You think that's bad? How about all the people who warp scramble gates in low sec? It get's the sentries on them but doesn't flag them. Then people shoot at them and get pwned by the sentries. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Khargos	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:07:00 - [8] Is this an exploit? Yes, not that ccp cares. Will ass***es say "you have the tools you should use them!"? Yes.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:09:00 - [9] It's not an exploit. They are using the tools of the game within the limits set. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
F'nog	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:13:00 - [10] As long as they lose their ship to Concord, it's not an exploit. And IBTL. Originally by: Morela "hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:18:00 - [11] thats not and exploit att all they got killed and decided u loot was worth dying for. ------------- Be a warrior in game Not on forums -------------
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:34:00 - [12] Maybe you shouldn't have kept hundreds of millions of stuff in an indy? Oh, by the way, recycling alts or using trial accounts to gank in high sec is an exploit. -- Proud member of the [23]. Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day.
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Khargos Is this an exploit? Yes, not that ccp cares. Will ass***es say "you have the tools you should use them!"? Yes. CCP and only CCP decides what expoit and what isnt. In this case CCP decide that it is not expoit. Any more questions ? They scanned you, killed you and get killed by concord. For the agression and ship destruction they received security status penalty. It all within game mechanics so I dont see any problem. In EVE you never completely safe unless docked.
Berious	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:35:00 - [14] Should've used an expanded out BS for stuff worth that much. There's no reason at all to transport BPOs and skillbooks in a hauler - you're just asking for trouble.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Khargos Is this an exploit? Yes, not that ccp cares. Will ass***es say "you have the tools you should use them!"? Yes. Sorry but pointing out that there are ways to prevent this from happening does not make me an ass. Though you would generally like to think so because its much easier to make fun of someone rather then listen to what they have to say. The fact of the matter is that there should be hardly any way you would die to a suicide squad. The tools exist already to prevent this sort of thing from happening, and have been pointed out several times by many people. Perhaps you would be better off to listen to these people rather then flaming them.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2005.08.02 05:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 02/08/2005 05:40:32 I bought an occator. Anytime I move stuff worth more than 20 or so mil, it's in that ship. It would take a HUGE gang of alts in Caracals to take this thing down before the Concordokken, esp with the L shield booster II on it. Who said that "there is no way to protect yourself" bit? Oh, and forget whining about cost. If you transport tons of expensive things all in one ship, it had BETTER be an expensive ship. If you like, for medium cost cargos, an Iteron mk V can fit a medium shield booster II and 3 shield hardeners (all kinetic I guess for kessies/caracals?) with nos to help the cap a tiny bit. That's not as good as tech II, but for medium cost cargo you might live to see Corcorde kill your enemies. BW Originally by: Pallas Athene I¦m using voice recognition software - where my fingers get stuck isn¦t your concern sweetheart
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.08.02 06:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Khargos Is this an exploit? Yes, not that ccp cares. Will ass***es say "you have the tools you should use them!"? Yes. No its not an exploit. You are allowed to fire upon people in high sec. You have to lose your ship though, and take a security status hit. It may suck and be cheap and easy, but its CCP's fault for allowing it. If they wanted people to be 100% safe in high sec they wouldnt allow you to activate guns on non-war targets. In my year in EVE I have seen people using this tactic twice. But I did know a corp that did it all the time. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.08.02 06:12:00 - [18] High sec space isn't totally safe. Otherwise it would be called Totally Safe space, and all combat mods would be disabled if you're not at war. If you're not using recycle alts, and as long as you lose your ship in the process of attacking, you are not exploiting. Its not my opinion, its CCP's word. I swear this discussion is older than most religions. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Ice Foxy	Posted - 2005.08.02 07:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Kel Gunrunner I was moving stations at the time and lost 400+ mil worth of T2 and named loot assault frigates, Bpc's, Bpo's, and skill books . You were moving 400mils worth of stuff in a ship costing only 300k-1mil. Suiciding is lame, since they have no comeback as they are almost always alts in noob corps, so war declairing wont do you much good. I think next time perhaps a T2 hauler would be in order.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.08.02 09:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Kel Gunrunner Hey guys,I recently lost a hauler while traveling through 0.9, I was moving stations at the time and lost 400+ mil worth of T2 and named loot assault frigates, Bpc's, Bpo's, and skill books . Hi. Sorry to hear that. Why not make a courier mission for yourself with all these loot in a package and assigned it to yourself so you can courier it alone. That way, whoever scans you, they will only see a package. HTH.
Majin Buu	Posted - 2005.08.02 09:16:00 - [21] if you can prove that the people who destroyed you are recycling chars to get around the sec hit then you can report them to ccp as an exploit and they will get there accounts banned, apart from that the only thing you can do is not to carry everything at once, and always fit your hauler with defense 5 ATUK
Thyro	Posted - 2005.08.02 09:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/08/2005 09:15:36 Originally by: Kel Gunrunner Hey guys,I recently lost a hauler while traveling through 0.9, I was moving stations at the time and lost 400+ mil worth of T2 and named loot assault frigates, Bpc's, Bpo's, and skill books . Hi. Sorry to hear that. Why not make a courier mission for yourself with all these loot in a package and assigned it to yourself so you can courier it alone. That way, whoever scans you, they will only see a package. Out of sight, out of mind. HTH. Wouldn't make more sense to dump a few secure cans in the cargo hold for same effect?
Cannig Tol	Posted - 2005.08.02 09:22:00 - [23] I agree that your loss sucks tremendously... however, there is this thing about "putting all your eggs in a basket". "Unsafe space" isn't 0.4 and below... whenever you leave a station (even in high sec systems) you've got to be prepared for something like that - moving all of your belongings in a single big haul is like playing russian roulette with a single empty barrel. Oh well, guess I'm stating the obvious.
Zaldiri	Posted - 2005.08.02 09:53:00 - [24] Well acctualy the sec loss for blowing up a ship in 1.0 is probably a big enough penelty if the person is doing it with their main character. However if they are doing it with their alternate character (which is then recycled) This is an exploit and you should contact the GMs ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Thyro Wouldn't make more sense to dump a few secure cans in the cargo hold for same effect? Could do as well but if you do get podded, will all cargoes inside the cans survive?
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Zaldiri Well acctualy the sec loss for blowing up a ship in 1.0 is probably a big enough penelty if the person is doing it with their main character. The trick (learned from my buddies who used to do it) is to do it very rarely and only for a very good cargo (like the one the thread started had) and then spend the rest of the time whoring 750k BS in 0.0. They used to do this in between merc contracts. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:09:00 - [27] Originally by: theRaptor Originally by: Zaldiri Well acctualy the sec loss for blowing up a ship in 1.0 is probably a big enough penelty if the person is doing it with their main character. The trick (learned from my buddies who used to do it) is to do it very rarely and only for a very good cargo (like the one the thread started had) and then spend the rest of the time whoring 750k BS in 0.0. They used to do this in between merc contracts. Of course, this trick no longer works, as the 750K Bships no longer give a (relatively) massive boost to sec status :0 [Come to Daddy]
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:09:00 - [28] Am sorry to hear about your loss, I only haul junk loot and mins in my hauler though and use a vigil with MWD and 3 nanofibres low for moving expensive stuff. The thing warps faster than a shuttle and can hit the gate at over 3kms, it also means that trips are fast enough that you can avoid being afk when carrying the good stuff. WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Kel Gunrunner There will always be pirates, iv been one myself and if ur stupid enough to run through 0.4 with no instas and lots of valuables your asking to be killed, I just think the alt empire ganking is getting rediculous.u wanna kill carebears pop em in 0.4 when there mining lol or declare war on em but to alot of guys carbear play is their whole game, and theres nothing u can do to stop yourself getting ganked by alts in kestrils when your chilling through 1.0 grabbing that cup of tea, i just think its totaly harsh That's the one thing that I consider 'bad'. That in order to move through 0.4 and down, it's just assumed that you 'must use instas'. I've been flamed for not doing so in the past. I detest that thought. I despise the idea that using an exploit in order to be extremely safe whilst hauling bulk cargos is considered 'normal'. And anyone who doesn't do it is an idiot. You should never be 100% safe. Blockade runners and Deep space transports exist for a reason, and it's not because that if you fill 'em full of local hull conversion expanders they're a little bigger. It's because they give you resilience and/or speed when transporting valuable stuff. Instas just so devalue the idea of a 'fast hauler'. But back on topic, no, it's not an exploit. Doing it with an alt, that you recycle is, but suicide attacks aren't.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.08.02 10:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Kel Gunrunner Hey guys,I recently lost a hauler while traveling through 0.9, I was moving stations at the time and lost 400+ mil worth of T2 and named loot assault frigates, Bpc's, Bpo's, and skill books Why were you moving low mass items in a hauler? Use a frigate. I generally use a Punisher fitted with nanofibers and an MWD. You need a damn fast target lock to hit me. Even without instas I can go anywhere I like : only warp bubbles pose a threat and they are rarer than common sense from a carebear For the heavy mass items follow the same strategy but fit a shield extender, booster. I've also heard of people fitting half a crapload of plating and producing an effective tank but personally I prefer to just fit for running. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.

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