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Cochise	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:00:00 - [151] Originally by: Balistic Void You contradict yourself by talking about friendships forged during the NVA/Biomass wars. Those wars are even older than the GNW. And former Biomass pilots are now flying in a united north alongside PA/G/IRON/FE. But noooo you choose to throw your lot in with EVOL. Nobody is fooled. No I chose to throw my lot in with BoB and many other Friends. And so you know friendships have no time limit but I can see how many struggle with that concept.
madmanjake	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:05:00 - [152] Edited by: madmanjake on 05/08/2005 13:08:32 Hi all my first post on E-O for a long time ...... How ever i would like to say in reply to the statment that SMK or any other afaik were recruited....lol We wanted to go to Xelas , We requested them to allow us to join The reasons dont matter... im not going a flame war here.. its not worth it tbh ...but it was a corp vote and in true sytle to the way we run our corp .we went with what our members wanted ...nuff said.... (img)http://www.eve-files.com/media/signatures/jake21.jpg(/img)
Shadar Ishaan	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:09:00 - [153] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Originally by: Mephistos To the people saying we should make the logs public, well we've shown them to the people that we care about. And those people have sided with us. Cool, if those logs have that magic effect, how much of an effort does it take to copy-paste something? Or send someone a message? If it's so good, surely you'd want to use it to prove, for example, that those independents that have sided with Xelas made a mistake? Saying that the logs are there and really good for your view on the situation, but still not showing them smells fishy to me. Many of those logs have been explicitly requested not to be aired here by some of the participants. We will respect that. Suffice to say that the several representatives of the northern allies met to discuss ending the hostilities peacefully without the removal of Xelas. PA tried to make some concessions and tried to get Xelas to make some concessions. This is the process of compromise. Xelas decided, however, not to compromise. They decided to continue fighting, so the fighting continued. That was their choice and that is why I do not see them as completely innocent in this. They had a chance to live in the North but they chose to move to the South. Good luck to them for it. It is my personal hope that we can all move past this and the wounds will heal with time. Many PA have friends in Xelas, and vice-versa. We hope those friendships can be rekindled in time. --------------- Phoenix Alliance Press Officer
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.08.05 13:20:00 - [154] Just to clarify a little here. Like Madmanjake said Smoking Hillbillies were not recruited by Xelas. We were happy with Cochise's leadership of PA. When he left to form Xelas we decided that PA was no longer for us ( I wont be pouring petrol on the alrady slightly flametastic thread by going into detail ) We had a discussion in corp and figured that A) Cochise and the 20th/Xelas was a good place to look because we already knew many of the pilots three. B) Its only a move up to Tenal and still st the time have access to Venal / Branch so avoided the PITA of moving too many jumps. If Cochise had turned us down we would still have left PA and gone to Empire while we looked for another alliance. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Mephistos	Posted - 2005.08.05 15:47:00 - [155] Cochise, one problem with that forgive and forget line of thinking: If we decided to drop all the things from the past and become friends with BoB... and friends with the north, then who is left to shoot? :p A lot of people go to 0.0 alliances because they want PvP, and if you've allied yourselves with everyone then there's no one to have a good war with. The north will always see BoB as hostile, and I'm sure BoB is more than happy with that, as it means that we'll always have someone to shoot at, which makes us all happy :) Doesn't mean there isn't some respect there, just means that we enjoy shooting at each other :p
Yolan	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:01:00 - [156] I really cant understand why people are getting so upset about this. Xelas obviously have their reasons for going to Fountain. Whether anybody agrees with them is irrelevant its their choice. As for me who was an 20th and PA member during the GNW I say GL to Xelas (particularly 20th) in whatever they do, and even if I do disagree with the road they have took I repeat its their choice. Instead of flaming these boards, jump in game and spend your time playing the game the way you think it should be played rather than ranting at people who are playing it another way. Oh and blow stuff up too, thats always fun
Jeltz	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:34:00 - [157] GL Cochise, 20th and Xelas and have fun in fountain. I hope you understand that old friends can not understand your latest move. What does Raven DeBlade say? If his opinions still matter to you.
Uggs386	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:42:00 - [158] omg this thread is still going, havent bothered to read those novel's of posts, prolly all just a bunch of nonesense, kinda like most of the forums. DJ shows his true feelings. James Kavourias > just need a **** break soon:P dj lightning > let me know when and i will hold
Galavet	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:06:00 - [159] Originally by: Jeltz GL Cochise, 20th and Xelas and have fun in fountain. I hope you understand that old friends can not understand your latest move. What does Raven DeBlade say? If his opinions still matter to you. What would you have them do you tool? Stay up in BFE and die for your amusement? A chance was given to put all the hate behind everybody but you (PA) chose the only path you have ever known, the wrong one.
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:06:00 - [160] Well Ugg, your post certainly was a dramatic contribution too... Originally by: Shadar Many of those logs have been explicitly requested not to be aired here by some of the participants. We will respect that. Ah, that is fair enough. Also understood on the official views thing. Thankies. Join Jericho!
Jeltz	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:46:00 - [161] Originally by: Galavet Originally by: Jeltz GL Cochise, 20th and Xelas and have fun in fountain. I hope you understand that old friends can not understand your latest move. What does Raven DeBlade say? If his opinions still matter to you. What would you have them do you tool? Stay up in BFE and die for your amusement? A chance was given to put all the hate behind everybody but you (PA) chose the only path you have ever known, the wrong one. At risk of sounding like a total geek, i must state that i "sense alot of hate in you" .
Shittake	Posted - 2005.08.05 17:57:00 - [162] Originally by: acidcharm About 2 weeks ago you came to me **take regarding opportunities to make peace while your corp was attacking our alliance. That's right Acid, we did talk about possibilities for peace, and I started that convo becuase I have friends in both Xelas and the PA and was hoping there was some way the hostilities could stop and we could all get on the same page. And for the longest time in that chat all you said were statements to the effect of "now way" and "no peace" and "we're winning" (that was when PA had taken 2/3 of the stations from Xelas). Originally by:** acidcharm At that time I told you to find someone that would tell you the truth. You have not found that person yet. I did in fact, after that chat, seek out several people in the PA to gather more information. The common thread I got from BOTH the hawks and the doves was how Cochise wanted to NAP everyone, but most importantly, that he had pushed the PA to NAP BoB, which was soundly rejected. So I am not just soem talking head that doesn't look at both sides of the equation. Unlike you my dear, I attempt to see both sides and not just be a "yes man" for the CEO/Executor to whom I serve, even if he may be in the wrong.
Edoo	Posted - 2005.08.05 18:24:00 - [163] Originally by: ElCoCo Originally by: Mortuus I think our only mistake was allowing them to peacefully withdraw their ships and equipment from the region. I honestly think Xelas never had any intention of honoring any agreements. Hey mort, not been playing much lately as you might have noticed... What part of the withdrawing agreement didn't xelas keep? Other than the fact that several ppl didn't logon at all that day to be able to get their gear out... surely you don't mean that. You're a great chap, it's been fun flying with lots of you You didn't stop the merc contract, but oh well --------------------------------- My posts represent my own views unless i state otherwise [TPDT] recruitment manager
Eninaj Sregor	Posted - 2005.08.05 19:00:00 - [164] Originally by: Cochise You sir are a blatant lier, You were not in the PA then you dont have a clue what happened at that time. My relationship with BoB started after that when BoB showed honor to me and the PA by withdrawing from Venal the day the FOE War started. I fought BoB with every asset at my disposal during that incursion. for somebody like you that uses the word honor so much maybe you should read this above paragraph, pointing out that you are in bed with the enemy building a relationship with them while you are at war with them... Originally by: Cochise As for my leaving the PA, It was the result of my Corp members asking me to leave. Their reasons were first, The Lord Wimbishi thing and the fact that the PA did nothing to back me in that ploy. Second, The fact that even though the entire council voted 100% to allow relations with Jerico Fraction and Star Fraction they then renigged on that vote and proved once again to be very shallow in their honor and support. The leadership folded like a cheap suit and quickly became a Lame Duck Government. The final straw was the complete disregard of the Councils orders not to go South and attack BoB and the then forming 5 by OCC, HAOS and a few others. Then when the 5 and BoB came to the North on the best day the PA could gather a mixed fleet of 20 or so. And that took hours of begging and consisted mainly of 20th and Blades members not to mention a few JF members as well. Im pretty sure that was the constant and a big part of Blades motivation for leaving the PA as well. You people just dont get it do you. The GNW had been over for 6 months, The WAR was over people. As I have stated at least 6 times before I had friends in some of the BoB corps, JF and a few others. Friendships that were forged fighting along side those people in the Biomass war during the NVA. People that helped me and my corp mates, people that did all they could to support my corp and friends. I saw no reason to continue the hatred and did the thing I thought that mattered the most. I went to my old friends and simply asked can we bury the hatchet and put the past away. They all quickly agreed, The only people that disagree are the people in the PA. take a look at the parts in bold, almost all of them being a contradiction of terms, first saying you are mad because you are not backed by your government in an issue, so you all pick up your toys and leave. Second part about the leadership folding is directly in fault of your own by not listening to the council when decisions were made, decisions voted on by at least half the council and you taking the path of your own AGAINST the vote. my previous statement is backed up by whay you say in the next bolded line, YOU WENT TO BOB TO NAP WHEN WE VOTED NO... as you sit there and think of yourself as "a man of honor", please post your definition of the word honor as i would like to see the twisted version you are going by. Originally by: Cochise Its funny that I sit here and read post after post from people that were not even active during the GNW. People that simply hate because their told to hate. People that fight simply because they are told to fight. Is it any wonder that I now call BoB friends and PA enemies. Seems pretty obvious to me that you people in the PA gave me little choice. [b]You dont dictate to me or anyone else who I call friends and you assumed that just because they were being called friends that made me your enemy.[b/] Dictated is not the word, you agreed to the tenal agreement and signed it saying that you would never allow our enemys sanctuary and would fight alongside the northern alliances, as we all know that you backed out on that too, as usual, doing your version of the "honourable" thing as you are soooo good at doing.
ElCoCo	Posted - 2005.08.05 20:15:00 - [165] Originally by: Edoo Originally by: ElCoCo Originally by: Mortuus I think our only mistake was allowing them to peacefully withdraw their ships and equipment from the region. I honestly think Xelas never had any intention of honoring any agreements. Hey mort, not been playing much lately as you might have noticed... What part of the withdrawing agreement didn't xelas keep? Other than the fact that several ppl didn't logon at all that day to be able to get their gear out... surely you don't mean that. You're a great chap, it's been fun flying with lots of you You didn't stop the merc contract, but oh well Well as I said I've been on and (mainly) off the game for so long I didn't know about any mercs. Maybe we said them to stop and they refused because they like shooting you (I haven't even confirmed that we indeed hire any mercs so that's a joke ) CoC are still attacking Xelas, who hired those?
Gafton	Posted - 2005.08.05 21:31:00 - [166] lmao this thread rocks To sum everything up: xelas believes pa is in the wrong pa believes xelas is in the wrong All the flaming and the hate is not going to change what happened. Fact of the matter is people are going to continue to do what they think is right. That "right" may be wrong to someone else but that's life. Trying to argue with someone who has an opposite viewpoint is pointless because they think they are right and you are wrong. Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead.
Captain Havoc	Posted - 2005.08.05 22:22:00 - [167] Edited by: Captain Havoc on 05/08/2005 22:24:24 Originally by: Mrmuttley Just to clarify a little here. Like Madmanjake said Smoking Hillbillies were not recruited by Xelas. We were happy with Cochise's leadership of PA. When he left to form Xelas we decided that PA was no longer for us ( I wont be pouring petrol on the alrady slightly flametastic thread by going into detail ) We had a discussion in corp and figured that A) Cochise and the 20th/Xelas was a good place to look because we already knew many of the pilots three. B) Its only a move up to Tenal and still st the time have access to Venal / Branch so avoided the PITA of moving too many jumps. If Cochise had turned us down we would still have left PA and gone to Empire while we looked for another alliance. Well thank you MrMuttley, you just said it all for me, the rest of the flame in here i just ignored, usual rubbish trash talk, anyways, the GLF moved to empire and left the PA after blades and 20th left and a corp vote was placed up for 3 days to make sure it was approved by the membership, then another corp vote was placed up with 3 alliances in it, 2 that we enquired about joining and Xelas of course cause we had friends there, the vote came up with about 85% towards Xelas, and this was a corp vote on our corp forums so EVERYONE in corp voted on it, i may run a military style corp, but i will not force my members to do soemthing they don't want to, that is corp suicide from a CEO's point of view, and just to let you all know, we spent 3 weeks in empire before we moved to tenal and joined Xelas, using that time to recruit and get ourselves organised for whereever we went next regardless. Havoc Out. Edit: i did clearly tell my old mates still in PA that when we joined XS, i see memories are lacking a bit there ----------------------------------------------- Captain Havoc CEO & Captain Galactic Liberation Forces
acidcharm	Posted - 2005.08.05 23:23:00 - [168] First and foremost **take .. I am not your dear... Second the fact that Cochise tried to bring peace and prosperity to the north is hardly a crime. If we wanted to put Bob or anybody else in this game to positive standing, it was our right as an independant alliance to do so. What did you want me to say in that convo.. oh yes **take go back to the pa .. we will do what they want? NO not on your life .. I had been in several convos at that point .. I had spent long hours in convos on the friday that painball decided to visit our space and get the ball rolling. We were asked to give till the following Tuesday so the PA could have one of their never ending council votes, so they could determine how to handle things ..which we agreed to. That gave u guys plenty of time to come in and start attacking our stations. You are right i said nothing in that convo for peace or war. I know how you guys work. I do not speak for our alliance. We have people who give everything to our alliance and I would not dare to assume I speak for anybody, other than my self. I am afraid I do think you are just a talking head in this issue. When you have done the research in the history of this issue, when you start to realize that the GNW was over, and that the opportunities we had for a sound and safe North was more than a dream, you will start to see the driving force behind XELAS. Also take a look on the date of Molle's first post stating his intentions, and then look at the timing of the events after that. We wanted a sound north!! Possibly when you have done all the research mentioned above, and I am sure you are not bringing old prejudices with you, maybe then I will consider long convos about bettering situations. Otherwise it is just a waste of your time and my time.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.06 00:50:00 - [169] Originally by: Mortuus It is my belief that we always have open hostilities with BoB. 'We are at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia.' Do you KNOW what your words sound like to a student of history? The parallels between the PA and certain old-Earth nation states are pretty clear. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
DeClair	Posted - 2005.08.06 01:26:00 - [170] good luck to xelas in fountain ! i like pa and i like xelas...unfortunatly they don`t like each other. maybe, sometime both will find together again :-) in my opinion it is very interesting if xelas will in future be a kind of buffer for bob to the north or a trojan horse for northern alliances. time will show whats right...eve is a long game the first thing i thought of is: maybe there is a deal where xelas will build dreadnoughts or something like this for bob ...and for sure i`m small and my thoughts are not important for anyone --- all what i say in a forum is only my personal opinion and i`m noone ---
fl0pski	Posted - 2005.08.06 01:27:00 - [171] Originally by: acidcharm blablabla <bull**** here> bladiebla, it was our right as an independant alliance to do so. <more crap here> what self respecting independant alliance begs for regions?
Mephistos	Posted - 2005.08.06 02:41:00 - [172] Maya, people might get mad if we start hiring people to be Commissars :p Really though, BoB are good PvP'ers, and they're friends with most of the south. If we stop shooting them and the south there's no one left to shoot. ElCoCo, from the looks of it Cochise was supposed to call of KIA before C-C would be called off. And KIA knew something about it (talked to one of them that said it was being called off), but then things changed, and I honestly don't know what it is. At this point calling off mercs would probably require an act of trust from one side, and I don't think either is going to believe in the other enough to call off their mercs.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2005.08.06 06:39:00 - [173] Edited by: Ly''sol on 06/08/2005 06:39:30 Originally by: Mephistos Maya, people might get mad if we start hiring people to be Commissars :p Really though, BoB are good PvP'ers, and they're friends with most of the south. If we stop shooting them and the south there's no one left to shoot. ElCoCo, from the looks of it Cochise was supposed to call of KIA before C-C would be called off. And KIA knew something about it (talked to one of them that said it was being called off), but then things changed, and I honestly don't know what it is. At this point calling off mercs would probably require an act of trust from one side, and I don't think either is going to believe in the other enough to call off their mercs. You shouldnt be worried about not having anyone to shoot. because if you have no one outside of your alliance to shoot you will either betray an ally or start killing yourselves off. BTW Cochise good response. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Mephistos	Posted - 2005.08.06 08:11:00 - [174] Thank you for trying to bait a friendly happy post Ly'Sol :).
Shittake	Posted - 2005.08.06 08:35:00 - [175] Edited by: **take on 06/08/2005 08:36:53 Acidcharm, Let's take your inane blather one sentence at a time: Originally by: acidcharm ... the fact that Cochise tried to bring peace and prosperity to the north is hardly a crime. Tried to bring peace by alligning hiself with BoB/5 when the rest of the north considered BoB/5 to be enemies? Are you mad? How is this in any way bringing peace to the north other than satisying you own need NOT to be blown up by the biggest PvP entity in that game? So you lay down with the enemy and anger all of your closets neighbors in the north. How did this work out for you? Originally by: acidcharm If we wanted to put Bob or anybody else in this game to positive standing, it was our right as an independant alliance to do so. Really? You remember an agreement that your daddy Cochise signed, a thing called a Mutual Defense Pact where we would be unified against our eneimes, and if I remember correctly from all that I read, this explicitely included BoB. So by securing peace for the north you explicitely break a treaty to which you signed with the alliance that Xelas divested from not 6 weaks ealier? Once again, are you mad? Hello? Originally by: acidcharm I am afraid I do think you are just a talking head in this issue. I'm the talking head? I just recently re-joined the PA, you've been here. I have no diplomatic importance, I speak for myself. You on the other hand (by your own words) yielded enough power to get Cochise to have the 20th leave the PA. You have ALWAYS been the lapdog for the man you support, early in the game it was Robeyone, an honorable man who kept his word and was fervently anit-pirate. Now you are the lapdog of a man who breaks agreements and NAPs everyone. You should be ashamed of yourself. I remember when you were the anti-pirate type. Now you lay down and support those pirates you so fervently opposed less that 6 months ago. You are not the Acidcharm I remember. Get a grip. (edited for content and spelling)
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.08.06 09:02:00 - [176] Originally by: Ly'sol Edited by: Ly''sol on 06/08/2005 06:39:30 Originally by: Mephistos Maya, people might get mad if we start hiring people to be Commissars :p Really though, BoB are good PvP'ers, and they're friends with most of the south. If we stop shooting them and the south there's no one left to shoot. ElCoCo, from the looks of it Cochise was supposed to call of KIA before C-C would be called off. And KIA knew something about it (talked to one of them that said it was being called off), but then things changed, and I honestly don't know what it is. At this point calling off mercs would probably require an act of trust from one side, and I don't think either is going to believe in the other enough to call off their mercs. You shouldnt be worried about not having anyone to shoot. because if you have no one outside of your alliance to shoot you will either betray an ally or start killing yourselves off. BTW Cochise good response. The bitterness is strong in this one. For all their "past is past" posturing, JF just can't let go of the past. Too frickin bad I'm in the same boat. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
acidcharm	Posted - 2005.08.06 11:01:00 - [177] Originally by: **take Tried to bring peace by alligning hiself with BoB/5 when the rest of the north considered BoB/5 to be enemies? Are you mad? How is this in any way bringing peace to the north other than satisying you own need NOT to be blown up by the biggest PvP entity in that game? So you lay down with the enemy and anger all of your closets neighbors in the north. How did this work out for you? Really? You remember an agreement that your daddy Cochise signed, a thing called a Mutual Defense Pact where we would be unified against our eneimes, and if I remember correctly from all that I read, this explicitely included BoB. So by securing peace for the north you explicitely break a treaty to which you signed with the alliance that Xelas divested from not 6 weaks ealier? Once again, are you mad? Hello. Yep, I remember that agreement.. Once again take you have not read that agreement (or have not carefully read it)and you are ill informed. In that agreement we were not bound to protect PA if PA was under threat as a result of PA initiated agression. I have convos from Iyam saying that his crew went south .. while both PA and XS were in a state of rebuild. We were attempting to do damage control and build an Alliance. Originally by: take You on the other hand (by your own words) yielded enough power to get Cochise to have the 20th leave the PA. You have ALWAYS been the lapdog for the man you support, early in the game it was Robeyone, an honorable man who kept his word and was fervently anit-pirate. Now you are the lapdog of a man who breaks agreements and NAPs everyone. You should be ashamed of yourself. I remember when you were the anti-pirate type. Now you lay down with and support those pirates you so fervently opposed less that 6 months ago. You are not the Acidcharm I remember.) Yes **take I am responsible for the 20th Corp.. that is my job to do what is best for the 20th. I obviously have hit a cord as you have now turned to calling me names and insulting me personally. However, that being said my statement above shows we did not break any agreement, so I guess I still back People who stand for something. You however, are in a corp that will start issues with anybody including their neighbors for example . . attacking neighbors stations with no previous warning, and despite it being an unsanctioned act by their own alliance.
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:38:00 - [178] GL Xelas
Cartiff	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:57:00 - [179] Originally by: Gafton lmao this thread rocks To sum everything up: xelas believes pa is in the wrong pa believes xelas is in the wrong All the flaming and the hate is not going to change what happened. Fact of the matter is people are going to continue to do what they think is right. That "right" may be wrong to someone else but that's life. Trying to argue with someone who has an opposite viewpoint is pointless because they think they are right and you are wrong. Signed Cartiff, CEO Euphoria Released NBSI 4TW
OVERCOPES 1	Posted - 2005.08.06 15:10:00 - [180] Originally by: Blacklight PA & NBSI smacktalking BoB, rofl. Make yourselves at home in Tenal chaps I predict a incredibly bad time coming for you very soon. translation=ive got a small willy but ill make up for it in a video game. Im a real wiltshire headbanger,generally getting podded whilst comatozed on cider. i mayv or may nit abe a bit drunk-parMizan.

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