Originally by: Amthrianius

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Nice region :)

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Originally by: Blacklight

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Welcome and have fun but remember if I see any of you near my drinks cabinet it will hurt a lot okay?

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Originally by: Invisible Touch

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When things cool down a bit, can I come and visit? Never been there...
...the weak always follow the strong..

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Originally by: Invisible Touch

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Edited by: Invisible Touch on 03/08/2005 18:39:26
Good Luck.

When things cool down a bit, can I come and visit?

Never been there...

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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On behalf of FIX, welcome to the South Xelas.... the sun always shines and the ladies dress to impress.

As they say in the land of my fore-fathers ... "its grim up north"

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Originally by: Darko1107

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GL Xelas in your new home .

Im sure NBSI/PA will enjoy your old 1 .

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Darko1107

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GL Xelas in your new home .

Im sure NBSI/PA will enjoy your old 1 .

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Let me think about this one:

Tenal for Fountain.

Gee, wonder who came off better out of that deal...

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Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss

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so uh...PA won over Xelas and BoB wants assistance in trying to crush FA, maybe if they have people everywhere 24/7 they might stop the industrial giant?

it is all very odd...

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Congret BOB you own little mining slaves

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Originally by: Uggs386

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hmmm why not make official announcement of your surrender to pa/nbsi?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Uggs386

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hmmm why not make official announcement of your surrender to pa/nbsi?

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Maybe because they're not surrendering? If you want to beat them in to submission, Uggs, this post should provide you with some very helpful clues as to where Xelas can now be found.

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Originally by: heyjoe52

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BTW ty Bob for taking the trash out my yard, much appreciated

/signed

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Originally by: Uggs386

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Surrender: 1 a : to yield to the power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand <surrendered the fort>

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Uggs386

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Surrender: 1 a : to yield to the power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand <surrendered the fort>

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I don't see any demand being yielded to here, Uggs. I see an entity realising that Tenal isn't worth fighting over.

Compare the 2 regions, see if you wouldn't make the same choice, then perceive it in any way you wish to - either way, to further your hunt of Xelas, you're gonna have to come to fountain.

You won't, though, because you'll get schooled.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Uggs386

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Surrender: 1 a : to yield to the power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand <surrendered the fort>

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I don't see any demand being yielded to here, Uggs. I see an entity realising that Tenal isn't worth fighting over.

Compare the 2 regions, see if you wouldn't make the same choice, then perceive it in any way you wish to - either way, to further your hunt of Xelas, you're gonna have to come to fountain.

You won't, though, because you'll get schooled.

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Originally by: Bizarre

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The thought of having NBSI fleets coming towards Fountain scares me. Really, it does...

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Congret BOB you own little mining slaves

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Originally by: Galavet

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Congret BOB you own little mining slaves

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Glad to see the E-R no smacktalk policy held up.

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Originally by: Cmdr Patrick

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Originally by: Galavet

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Congret BOB you own little mining slaves

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Glad to see the E-R no smacktalk policy held up.

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He was jkin,hence the smilie.

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Originally by: Uggs386

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We smacked where?

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Originally by: Uther Agnoius

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Who is NBSI?

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Originally by: Bizarre

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The thought of having NBSI fleets coming towards Fountain scares me. Really, it does...

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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I don't see any demand being yielded to here, Uggs. I see an entity realising that Tenal isn't worth fighting over.

Compare the 2 regions, see if you wouldn't make the same choice, then perceive it in any way you wish to - either way, to further your hunt of Xelas, you're gonna have to come to fountain.

You won't, though, because you'll get schooled.

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Originally by: Darko1107

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Edited by: Darko1107 on 03/08/2005 22:53:56
Either way, NBSI/PA can claim victory OVER TENAL but not over xelas because as everyone can see, Xelas still stands and no corps have left it, right?

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Originally by: Kerosene

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4. BlackLance, stfu. You don't belong in BoB.

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Originally by: dj lightning

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Originally by: Kerosene

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4. BlackLance, stfu. You don't belong in BoB.

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u should STFU dont ever talk about my corp like that i dont put on the forums lunas stop smacking or uggs stop smacking think u better look at the posts again.

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Originally by: Kerosene

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Edited by: Kerosene on 04/08/2005 04:13:55
So.. to recap.

1. Xelas moved out of Tenal due to not being able to hold the region.
2. BoB offers Xelas a home in the Fountain region even though BoB are a pvp alliance and Xelas.. well aren't.
3. BoB starts smacktalking the hell out of NBSI/PA to start something so they've an excuse to go up to Tenal to 'kick ass'.
4. *edit: whoops! - Kero*
I think that's about where we're at. Just out of interest, why did BoB offer Xelas a home? (other than to be their production dogs...)

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Originally by: Blacklight

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Comical, NBSI 4tw! You guys are uber, I'm even thinking about joining!

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Originally by: Kerosene

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I think that's about where we're at. Just out of interest, why did BoB offer Xelas a home? (other than to be their production dogs...)

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Originally by: Sun Ra

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Edited by: Sun Ra on 04/08/2005 08:07:37

Originally by: Kerosene

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I think that's about where we're at. Just out of interest, why did BoB offer Xelas a home? (other than to be their production dogs...)

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BoB has plenty of carebears trust me, just they make sure theirs can handle big guns when need be

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Originally by: juduzz

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GL........

althought what is so good about fountain? compared to tenal? minus closer to empire?

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Originally by: Andrommeda

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Stopp the hate guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<3 pat.. i'm looking forward to the next lemonparty pat

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Originally by: DB Preacher

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Originally by: juduzz

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GL........

althought what is so good about fountain? compared to tenal? minus closer to empire?

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The Neighbours.



dbp

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Originally by: DB Preacher

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Originally by: juduzz

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GL........

althought what is so good about fountain? compared to tenal? minus closer to empire?

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The Neighbours.



dbp

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Originally by: Ebil Fred

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I have to admit it struck me as strange that there was no crowing posts from the PA leadership about taking over tenal.

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Originally by: Mortuus

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I think our only mistake was allowing them to peacefully withdraw their ships and equipment from the region. I honestly think Xelas never had any intention of honoring any agreements.

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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Originally by: Blacklight

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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So i'll take that as no one wants to put their money where their mouth is and say what they think.

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There is no spoon.

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By jove I think i've got it, you will stop at nothing to reclaim the north as your home again?

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Originally by: Ebil Fred

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****take you seem to put much the same words in just about every post you make about the political situation. presumably in the hope that repeating it will get everyone to belive you.

As for me I did not take part in the fighting against Xelas but when Evolution and freinds came to PA Space I was right there at the front.

Shadar Ishaan I find your words curiously at odds with several other Senior PA pilots Mortuus's post above speaks in vastly different terms to yours and IMHO represents the trigger happy ways of the PA leadership better than your own understandably statesman like talk.

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Originally by: Ly'sol

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Hello again ****take,

Ok, so PA felt that mutal defense was voided by the change in standings. Dont you think it is a little unfair to be "conditional" allies with people you continually proclaim as friends? In laymans terms "Kill our enemies with us or we BBQ you."

That is what this is about at the bare bones right? Controling the foriegn policy of others.

And if that is not enough. Who opened fire on who first? It was PA who broke the agreement by killing Xelas pilots.

So who is more at fault?

One side betters standings with a former enemy.

or

The otherside cause direct loss to the other.

Looking at it logically. It was PA in fact that violated the mutual defense. Assumptions where made and your alliance acted foolishly (IMO this is a repeating trend). Just because a standing change was made didnt nessecarily mean they wouldnt have rendered assitance to your alliance.

PA screwed its ally from giving into paranoia and anger without looking at the situation objectivly.

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Originally by: Ly'sol

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Hello again ****take,

Ok, so PA felt that mutal defense was voided by the change in standings. Dont you think it is a little unfair to be "conditional" allies with people you continually proclaim as friends? In laymans terms "Kill our enemies with us or we BBQ you."

That is what this is about at the bare bones right? Controling the foriegn policy of others.

And if that is not enough. Who opened fire on who first? It was PA who broke the agreement by killing Xelas pilots.

So who is more at fault?

One side betters standings with a former enemy.

or

The otherside cause direct loss to the other.

Looking at it logically. It was PA in fact that violated the mutual defense. Assumptions where made and your alliance acted foolishly (IMO this is a repeating trend). Just because a standing change was made didnt nessecarily mean they wouldnt have rendered assitance to your alliance.

PA screwed its ally from giving into paranoia and anger without looking at the situation objectivly.

---

Originally by: Blacklight

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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So i'll take that as no one wants to put their money where their mouth is and say what they think.

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There is no spoon.

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Originally by: Tatsue Nuko

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Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2005 01:38:14
Shadar,

Your post above suffers from one major weakness, which is the plague of ad verecundiam argumentation. You argue that since Ly'sol (and I would suppose, by proxy, all those that have sided with Xelas in this conflict) does not hold all information he and we cannot make a full argument, and thus not legitimately take sides?

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Quote:

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The issue, then, is that we all have to go by the information which we manage to acquire. If the Phoenix Alliance believes that were all facts in public light it would defeat our arguments, why is it not delivering these in a full disclosure?

---

Quote:

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I invite you, Shadar, and indeed the entirety of the Phoenix Alliance public relations office, to complete the picture you claim is fragmented. You do not do this, instead you satisfy yourself by only delivering hints at a supposed truth that -would-, if known to us, destroy our arguments.

If you don't, we will just assume that your argumentation is hot air intended to push into silence those possessing less insight in how these types of diplomatic games function.

You failed.

---

Quote:

---

As for your retort against the esteemed DB Preacher, I would say that it looks to me like a "do unto others what they do unto you" policy, which I personally believe is a sound approach to all fields of life, political, military and personal. Utilizing flawed pseudo-psychology is hardly going to make anyone in BoB, and judging by my previous interactions with her especially not DB Preacher, assume a position of guilt or other form of weakness.

---

Quote:

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The Phoenix Alliance receives no respect because it has shown time and again through it's many administrations after Halseth's illegal coup, excepting the lamentably short period of Cochise holding office, that it respects no-one. And in keeping with karmic theories, what goes around, comes around.

---

Quote:

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Nevertheless Shadar, your postings are a breath of fresh air after digesting posts from people such as OCC, Mythos and Spanish Inquisition. I think I might be able to like you.

---

Quote:

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Can you not see why Xelas' northern neighbors were concerned? After our diplomats talked with Cochsie and it was clear that he was keeping BoB/5 at positive that we felt there was a BoB/5 invasion imminent and somethign had to be done about it? Can see understand how having a BoB/5-friendly resupply base so deep in the north was a major concern to us? (Please anwer this, do not reply with a question)

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Originally by: Shadar Ishaan

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I'm afraid your presumptions on this are misplaced; I am not attempting to guilt DB Preacher or BoB in general at all. I am rather pointing out that all the outrage for PA's arrogance, all the denouncement about her lack of respect and so forth is very evident in others as well. The PA has a good deal of respect for BoB's ability. Apparently, however, that sense of respect is not shared.

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Originally by: Ly'sol

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Hello again ****take,

Ok, so PA felt that mutal defense was voided by the change in standings. Dont you think it is a little unfair to be "conditional" allies with people you continually proclaim as friends? In laymans terms "Kill our enemies with us or we BBQ you."

That is what this is about at the bare bones right? Controling the foriegn policy of others.

---

Originally by: Blacklight

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There is no spoon.

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Originally by: Mephistos

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To the people saying we should make the logs public, well we've shown them to the people that we care about. And those people have sided with us.

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Originally by: Mortuus

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****take, the problem you are having is your are trying to argue a subjective right or wrong.

TO hell with being right to everyone else. All that matters is what is right by the majority of the PA citizens. I am NOT leadership no matter how much influence I may have. I got that influence by always doing my best to combat the enemies of the alliance. Be they BoB/[5], Xetic, F-E, UnioN, Xelas, every northern alliance, pirates, Stain, whoever. I've fought all of them at one point or another.

ElCoCo, what happened is buried mostly in the murk of diplomats, who speak in twists and turns. To say it straight, we allowed Cochise and 20th to have Tenal without any issues under the terms that we would have a Mutual Defense Pact and open access to eachothers space. The MDP was mainly in case of a BoB/[5] attack. After Xelas set them positive we couldn't count on them to help us, and worse yet, it looked as if they might have joined them (which they did later) in order to fight us. We couldn't leave that threat at our rear.

Am I triggerhappy? Yes when its called for. But I also know the uses of letting other people talk it over. Some members of the alliance would prefer we never shot anyone, ever. Unfortunatly that doesn't work in 0.0 and force, whether you like it or not, is the basis for all diplomacy. When talks aren't working, when nothing is getting done, when nothing can be accomplished through normal diplomacy, war is the answer.

And please, post with your alt. We are a Republic, if you want to raise your voice but feel uncomfortable about it, discuss it with your CEO or representatives and have them bring your concerns up. I do this all the time. I even started a huge post on our own forums in order to get people thinking, even if it causes a little internal strife. Think for yourself. Decide what you want, and then make your choice to stay in the alliance or not based on this.

IF anyone has an issue with this, bring it to me. These are my views and not my corps or alliances. I at least can speak for myself and without fear.

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Originally by: ****take

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Hello again Ly'sol

Can you not see why Xelas' northern neighbors were concerned? After our diplomats talked with Cochsie and it was clear that he was keeping BoB/5 at positive that we felt there was a BoB/5 invasion imminent and somethign had to be done about it? Can see understand how having a BoB/5-friendly resupply base so deep in the north was a major concern to us? (Please anwer this, do not reply with a question)

Not even 2 months prior to this standings change, before Xelas' split for the PA, our forces successfuly prevented Evolution from taking the V7 station so that they could not dock and get whatever they wanted so badly from that station. Cochise has a hissy fit, leaves the PA, starts recuiting corps away from the PA with wahtever promises he made, then sets that enemy whom we BOTH prevented from taking the station to positive AFTER having several TS/Vent love-fests with his new buddies DaFuzz and SirMolle.

Come on. We've heard plenty of times on these forums about how the PA is a bunch of whimps and miners, yet when we do somethign to make what appears to be an imminent invasion a little tougher on our enemies we are still wrong. By that logic, the PA can do nothing right.

Try putting yourself in our shoes for a minute.

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Originally by: ****take

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Cochise has a hissy fit, leaves the PA, starts recuiting corps away from the PA

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Originally by: Blacklight

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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So i'll take that as no one wants to put their money where their mouth is and say what they think.

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There is no spoon.

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Originally by: Tatsue Nuko

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Finally, you are the Press Officer, but your arguments does not reflect PA official views and policy? Could you pleace indicate how I should classify your occupation as Press Officer? Internal press and not public relations?

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Originally by: Balistic Void

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You contradict yourself by talking about friendships forged during the NVA/Biomass wars. Those wars are even older than the GNW. And former Biomass pilots are now flying in a united north alongside PA/G/IRON/FE. But noooo you choose to throw your lot in with EVOL. Nobody is fooled.

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Originally by: Tatsue Nuko

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Originally by: Mephistos

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To the people saying we should make the logs public, well we've shown them to the people that we care about. And those people have sided with us.

---

Cool, if those logs have that magic effect, how much of an effort does it take to copy-paste something? Or send someone a message? If it's so good, surely you'd want to use it to prove, for example, that those independents that have sided with Xelas made a mistake?

Saying that the logs are there and really good for your view on the situation, but still not showing them smells fishy to me.

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Originally by: Jeltz

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GL Cochise, 20th and Xelas and have fun in fountain. I hope you understand that old friends can not understand your latest move. What does Raven DeBlade say? If his opinions still matter to you.

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Originally by: Shadar

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Many of those logs have been explicitly requested not to be aired here by some of the participants. We will respect that.

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Originally by: Galavet

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Originally by: Jeltz

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GL Cochise, 20th and Xelas and have fun in fountain. I hope you understand that old friends can not understand your latest move. What does Raven DeBlade say? If his opinions still matter to you.

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What would you have them do you tool? Stay up in BFE and die for your amusement? A chance was given to put all the hate behind everybody but you (PA) chose the only path you have ever known, the wrong one.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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About 2 weeks ago you came to me ****take regarding opportunities to make peace while your corp was attacking our alliance.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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At that time I told you to find someone that would tell you the truth. You have not found that person yet.

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Originally by: ElCoCo

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Originally by: Mortuus

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I think our only mistake was allowing them to peacefully withdraw their ships and equipment from the region. I honestly think Xelas never had any intention of honoring any agreements.

---

Hey mort, not been playing much lately as you might have noticed...

What part of the withdrawing agreement didn't xelas keep?

Other than the fact that several ppl didn't logon at all that day to be able to get their gear out... surely you don't mean that.

You're a great chap, it's been fun flying with lots of you

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Originally by: Cochise

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You sir are a blatant lier, You were not in the PA then you dont have a clue what happened at that time. My relationship with BoB started after that when BoB showed honor to me and the PA by withdrawing from Venal the day the FOE War started. I fought BoB with every asset at my disposal during that incursion.

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Originally by: Cochise

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As for my leaving the PA, It was the result of my Corp members asking me to leave. Their reasons were first, The Lord Wimbishi thing and the fact that the PA did nothing to back me in that ploy. Second, The fact that even though the entire council voted 100% to allow relations with Jerico Fraction and Star Fraction they then renigged on that vote and proved once again to be very shallow in their honor and support. The leadership folded like a cheap suit and quickly became a Lame Duck Government. The final straw was the complete disregard of the Councils orders not to go South and attack BoB and the then forming 5 by OCC, HAOS and a few others. Then when the 5 and BoB came to the North on the best day the PA could gather a mixed fleet of 20 or so. And that took hours of begging and consisted mainly of 20th and Blades members not to mention a few JF members as well. Im pretty sure that was the constant and a big part of Blades motivation for leaving the PA as well.

You people just dont get it do you. The GNW had been over for 6 months, The WAR was over people. As I have stated at least 6 times before I had friends in some of the BoB corps, JF and a few others. Friendships that were forged fighting along side those people in the Biomass war during the NVA. People that helped me and my corp mates, people that did all they could to support my corp and friends. I saw no reason to continue the hatred and did the thing I thought that mattered the most. I went to my old friends and simply asked can we bury the hatchet and put the past away. They all quickly agreed, The only people that disagree are the people in the PA.

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Originally by: Cochise

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Its funny that I sit here and read post after post from people that were not even active during the GNW. People that simply hate because their told to hate. People that fight simply because they are told to fight. Is it any wonder that I now call BoB friends and PA enemies. Seems pretty obvious to me that you people in the PA gave me little choice. [b]You dont dictate to me or anyone else who I call friends and you assumed that just because they were being called friends that made me your enemy.[b/]

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Originally by: Edoo

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Originally by: ElCoCo

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Originally by: Mortuus

---

I think our only mistake was allowing them to peacefully withdraw their ships and equipment from the region. I honestly think Xelas never had any intention of honoring any agreements.

---

Hey mort, not been playing much lately as you might have noticed...

What part of the withdrawing agreement didn't xelas keep?

Other than the fact that several ppl didn't logon at all that day to be able to get their gear out... surely you don't mean that.

You're a great chap, it's been fun flying with lots of you

---

You didn't stop the merc contract, but oh well

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Originally by: Mrmuttley

---

Just to clarify a little here. Like Madmanjake said Smoking Hillbillies were not recruited by Xelas.

We were happy with Cochise's leadership of PA. When he left to form Xelas we decided that PA was no longer for us ( I wont be pouring petrol on the alrady slightly flametastic thread by going into detail )

We had a discussion in corp and figured that A) Cochise and the 20th/Xelas was a good place to look because we already knew many of the pilots three. B) Its only a move up to Tenal and still st the time have access to Venal / Branch so avoided the PITA of moving too many jumps.

If Cochise had turned us down we would still have left PA and gone to Empire while we looked for another alliance.

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Originally by: Mortuus

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It is my belief that we always have open hostilities with BoB.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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blablabla <bull**** here> bladiebla,
it was our right as an independant alliance to do so.
<more crap here>

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Originally by: Mephistos

---

Maya, people might get mad if we start hiring people to be Commissars :p Really though, BoB are good PvP'ers, and they're friends with most of the south. If we stop shooting them and the south there's no one left to shoot.

ElCoCo, from the looks of it Cochise was supposed to call of KIA before C-C would be called off. And KIA knew something about it (talked to one of them that said it was being called off), but then things changed, and I honestly don't know what it is. At this point calling off mercs would probably require an act of trust from one side, and I don't think either is going to believe in the other enough to call off their mercs.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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... the fact that Cochise tried to bring peace and prosperity to the north is hardly a crime.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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If we wanted to put Bob or anybody else in this game to positive standing, it was our right as an independant alliance to do so.

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Originally by: acidcharm

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I am afraid I do think you are just a talking head in this issue.

---

Originally by: Ly'sol

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Edited by: Ly''sol on 06/08/2005 06:39:30

Originally by: Mephistos

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Maya, people might get mad if we start hiring people to be Commissars :p Really though, BoB are good PvP'ers, and they're friends with most of the south. If we stop shooting them and the south there's no one left to shoot.

ElCoCo, from the looks of it Cochise was supposed to call of KIA before C-C would be called off. And KIA knew something about it (talked to one of them that said it was being called off), but then things changed, and I honestly don't know what it is. At this point calling off mercs would probably require an act of trust from one side, and I don't think either is going to believe in the other enough to call off their mercs.

---

You shouldnt be worried about not having anyone to shoot. because if you have no one outside of your alliance to shoot you will either betray an ally or start killing yourselves off.

BTW Cochise good response.

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Originally by: Blind Fear

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Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.

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Originally by: ****take

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Tried to bring peace by alligning hiself with BoB/5 when the rest of the north considered BoB/5 to be enemies? Are you mad? How is this in any way bringing peace to the north other than satisying you own need NOT to be blown up by the biggest PvP entity in that game? So you lay down with the enemy and anger all of your closets neighbors in the north. How did this work out for you?


Really? You remember an agreement that your daddy Cochise signed, a thing called a Mutual Defense Pact where we would be unified against our eneimes, and if I remember correctly from all that I read, this explicitely included BoB. So by securing peace for the north you explicitely break a treaty to which you signed with the alliance that Xelas divested from not 6 weaks ealier? Once again, are you mad? Hello.

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Originally by: ****take

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You on the other hand (by your own words) yielded enough power to get Cochise to have the 20th leave the PA. You have ALWAYS been the lapdog for the man you support, early in the game it was Robeyone, an honorable man who kept his word and was fervently anit-pirate. Now you are the lapdog of a man who breaks agreements and NAPs everyone. You should be ashamed of yourself. I remember when you were the anti-pirate type. Now you lay down with and support those pirates you so fervently opposed less that 6 months ago. You are not the Acidcharm I remember.)

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Originally by: Gafton

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lmao this thread rocks

To sum everything up:

xelas believes pa is in the wrong
pa believes xelas is in the wrong

All the flaming and the hate is not going to change what happened. Fact of the matter is people are going to continue to do what they think is right. That "right" may be wrong to someone else but that's life. Trying to argue with someone who has an opposite viewpoint is pointless because they think they are right and you are wrong.

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Originally by: Blacklight

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PA & NBSI smacktalking BoB, rofl.

Make yourselves at home in Tenal chaps I predict a incredibly bad time coming for you very soon.

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Originally by: Uggs386

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omg this thread is still going, havent bothered to read those novel's of posts, prolly all just a bunch of nonesense, kinda like most of the forums.

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Originally by: Jofika Roxwell

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Edited by: Jofika Roxwell on 07/08/2005 20:00:44

Originally by: Uggs386

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omg this thread is still going, havent bothered to read those novel's of posts, prolly all just a bunch of nonesense, kinda like most of the forums.

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Yeah and all ur posts *aren't* nonsence...

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Quote:

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can you not see uggs was emarly pointing out all the pointless flaming.

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Originally by: dantes inferno

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Edited by: dantes inferno on 08/08/2005 06:06:47

Quote:

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can you not see uggs was emarly pointing out all the pointless flaming.

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considering a large portion of the flamming/smack on this and other threads on the pa/xelas issue is coming from uggs and other NBSI members (contrary to the no-smak policy which was made a while back..nice to see you guys listening to you leadership)i would think its safe to say that uggs comment was just more pointles smak.

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Originally by: pershphanie

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Originally by: dantes inferno

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Edited by: dantes inferno on 08/08/2005 06:06:47

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can you not see uggs was emarly pointing out all the pointless flaming.

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considering a large portion of the flamming/smack on this and other threads on the pa/xelas issue is coming from uggs and other NBSI members (contrary to the no-smak policy which was made a while back..nice to see you guys listening to you leadership)i would think its safe to say that uggs comment was just more pointles smak.

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Just because you disagree with what someone says does not make it smack talk.

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Originally by: Eldritch Strange

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Sarcasm is notoriusly difficult to communicate via the written word. Usually it just sounds like you're being an *******.
Try using cleverly ironic statements, those are more enjoyable to read.

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Originally by: Blind Fear

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Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.

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Originally by: Tatsue Nuko

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Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 09/08/2005 05:19:33
Did you check him, Darken?

Eldritch Strange shows as having been in Fenix Unlimited for 2 months and 22 days, a corporation with 35 pilots on it's roster. Description says Foundation.

Either way, what is a "main"? Lack of facial reconstruction and DNA resequencing, perhaps?

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Originally by: Blind Fear

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Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.

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Originally by: Paladineguru

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lets wait to be announced dead by bob after they pull their missing spoon out of molles **S

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Originally by: MiIes Naismith

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Dont worry cochise will do whatever is necessary to save his ass, thought that would be obvious.
I can see it now, his bob protection is busy elsewhere , so hell just nap whoever comes to claim it once they move on.

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Originally by: Blind Fear

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Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 13/08/2005 02:28:30

pfft, don't be a bitter little fruit I got the strong impression from dealing with Cochise that he cares more about his people and allies than he does his own ass. Admittedly its a rare trait in 0.0 but not so rare as to warrent the look of mute incomprehension I imagine you adopting behind that full face draping ornament thing you are wearing kind sir

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Originally by: MiIes Naismith

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rant..

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LOL I'm not bitter, I'm sickened that one man's betrayal of ALL his agreements with his allies

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is being heralded as something great among those of you in JF who are still bitter about stuff from two years ago

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and as someone who served under cochise for much longer than xelas has been in existence, I know and have seen exactly how he works.

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From his half assed military leadership post-GNW to his version of a Democracy (co's way or the highway) \o/ yes men ftw eh

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and if he was sooo caring about his allies then why did he betray them at the first opportunity he had

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if he cares so much for his people then when They KILLED and EXPELLED lord wimbishi for his attempted coup,

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why did he leave in a huff

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If he has so much honesty and integrity why did he LIE to his allies and friends about getting in bed with BoB.

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NO he is not someone to respect, even the devil has his good moments.

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but so far his track record as a person of Honesty, Integrity, and Leadership leaves much to be desired.

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My deepest sympathy to those in 20th and xelas who continue to follow such a person. Maybe when the council or govt you now in decides something democratically , and he overrides it all youll start to see what those of us who worked under him before did. The power hungry, ego-maniacal COWARD who cannot honor a single agreement that might in the future cause turmoil to his position.

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The mark of a great man is the people he surrounds himself with, and on that note o/.

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Originally by: MiIes Naismith

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among those of you in JF who are still bitter about stuff from two years ago

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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Well, its funny really, but you know looking round the forums and space comms I'm seeing pretty much all the people I actually liked from the PA gone from the organisation and lots of them joined BoB

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...or Xelas. :) But it's a bit of a philosophical question, is this still the same PA? I mean, if you use your hovercar for a long time, and during the course of standard repairs and maintenance end up piece-by-piece rebuilding the entire thing, leaving only the GPS (a.k.a OCC) left as an original piece...

...is it still PA? The name is there, but the question kind of remains.

(My answer to the question is probably not what people think it will be, though. :p )

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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But either which way it seems like a damn good example of a hostile meme embodying all the ills of colonial intrigues and sub-machiavellian malfeasence on the galactic stage and presenting the very example of the things our corp was born to fight.

Happy circumstance!

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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...it gets you to thinking that maybe the alliance is some kind of meme plague that endlessly regenerates the same kind of attitudes and approaches to politcal sharp practise that alienated us in the first place.

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Originally by: Paladineguru

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lets wait to be announced dead by bob after they pull their missing spoon out of molles **S

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Originally by: Mortuus

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Jasmine, we don't care if they are yes men or not. I show my displeasure with my alliance or corp when I need to as my corp does to the alliance.

However, it comes to this choice. Go with the majority or leave. And yes. I did at one point leave to do what I thought was right even though it was against my alliances wishes.

Cochise made a stand on what he believed in, we took a stand on our beliefs. We both accepted the consequences of those actions.

The only important factor is whether or not we could fully trust Xelas to stand with the rest of us against an enemy. We couldn't, so they had to move. Never leave a variable at your rear.

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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The weakness of the PA and other northern Vassal Pact states in my eyes is their inability to accept that time moves on and situations change. What I sense is that you guys are pretty desparate to fight the GNW over again and try for a better result this time. I understand that and I'd enjoy it massively so lets hope the powers that be make it happen.

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Originally by: ****take

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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The weakness of the PA and other northern Vassal Pact states in my eyes is their inability to accept that time moves on and situations change. What I sense is that you guys are pretty desparate to fight the GNW over again and try for a better result this time. I understand that and I'd enjoy it massively so lets hope the powers that be make it happen.

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Better result? BoB left the north and the PA still lives Venal/Branch.

BoB left for whatever reason, who knows, certainly not me. You would know better than I would with your corporation's close ties to them.

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Originally by: Gafton

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As for PA, times change. Bob is certainly not the same group that fought in the gnw. No entity stays the same forever.

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Originally by: ****take

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Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

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The weakness of the PA and other northern Vassal Pact states in my eyes is their inability to accept that time moves on and situations change. What I sense is that you guys are pretty desparate to fight the GNW over again and try for a better result this time. I understand that and I'd enjoy it massively so lets hope the powers that be make it happen.

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Better result? BoB left the north and the PA still lives Venal/Branch.

BoB left for whatever reason, who knows, certainly not me. You would know better than I would with your corporation's close ties to them.

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Originally by: Kye Do'lan

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Enjoy

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Originally by: Insane Angel

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XELAS wont undock when IMP/VC are running about (go DMGI and RUBRA!) and b0b are being smashed by every other 'decent' alliance in this game. b0b bit off more then they can chew (they are fighting real pvpers instead of miners)and XELAS jumping on the b0b band wagon will suffer the same fate as b0b.

GL XELAS and b0b!!! Your gonna need it.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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And indeed, it has been good fun all the way around. I wouldn't have it any other way, for now.

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Originally by: DB Preacher

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Originally by: Insane Angel

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XELAS wont undock when IMP/VC are running about (go DMGI and RUBRA!) and b0b are being smashed by every other 'decent' alliance in this game. b0b bit off more then they can chew (they are fighting real pvpers instead of miners)and XELAS jumping on the b0b band wagon will suffer the same fate as b0b.

GL XELAS and b0b!!! Your gonna need it.

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Xelas are doing perfectly well in my opinion. DMGI and Rubra are not achieving anything apart from killing some ships (this isn't going to gain them territory nor is it going to force anyone to leave... tis good fun though!).

Xelas have a nice large territory to live in and they have great backup from the other corps working and living in the area.

However, most importantly, they are communicating with all the corps in the area brilliantly. This is something that the northern corps never really learnt how to do.

Fountain is there for Xelas to keep as long as they want it and based on their desire since they moved in, I foresee no reason for them to be ousted by anyone.

dbp

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Originally by: catz

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Xelas is a very good tutorial target for kill's agent mission (except S-44). Forgot the official tutorial, come in fountain, you will enjoy the game :)

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Originally by: Insane Angel

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XELAS wont undock when IMP/VC are running about (go DMGI and RUBRA!) and b0b are being smashed by every other 'decent' alliance in this game. b0b bit off more then they can chew (they are fighting real pvpers instead of miners)and XELAS jumping on the b0b band wagon will suffer the same fate as b0b.

GL XELAS and b0b!!! Your gonna need it.

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