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Mymuff Tutuff
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 00:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.
So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.
Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.
I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?
Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?
Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.
(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!) |

Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 00:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
he was flashy yellow? that means he's a suspect.
you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1643
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 00:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
The PvP flag (aggressed another pilot) you always get for shooting another pilot, irrelevant of why or who. You also got a weapons flag because you fired a weapon. CCP decided that if you fire on a suspect he gains the right to shoot you back. So he did. Be glad he did no not get you with a warp disruptor, and grats on being aggressive and surviving. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 00:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:he was flashy yellow? that means he's a suspect.
you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system.
That's not true. Shooting a suspect doesn't make you a suspect!
The flag you got were limited engegament, weapons flag and pvp flag.
Limited engagement allows the other person to shoot you without concord repurcussion while it's active.
PvP flag prevents you from disappearing when you log out so you can't just log off when you see you're loosing. You do emergency warp if you're not warp disrupted but you stay in space while it's active and can be probed down.
The pvp timer prevents you from docking and using stargets so you're comitted to the fight. You don't want people that are shooting you just dock up right before they're about to pop. Unless they haven't been shooting you for a while(deaggress)
Search the forums/dev blogs/internet for better explanations ont he terhms. |

Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
604
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hi there! It was me you aggressed.
You gained the following three timers:
1. Limited Engagement
As soon as you aggress a legal target, you gain a limited engagement timer. This can also be created by accepting a duel request. It essentially just gives you 5 mins to extend the engagement with the target and allows you to shoot freely without goign suspect or criminal yourself.
2. Weapons Timer
Any aggressive action you take will earn you a weapons timer of 1 minute. This timer will prevent you from docking, jumping (except WHs), ejecting, or switching ships. Performing logistics that would generate any timer for you will also earn a weapons timer (I.E. inheriting one for remote repairing someone else)
3. Log-off Timer
Any aggressive action done to you or by you will generate a 15 minute timer that will prevent you from logging off safely in space. If you have to log off in space, you always want to make sure this goes away first or you may find yourself dead. An exception might be logging off in a POS.
I hope you enjoyed the little encounter. I wouldn't have killed you due to your age, but I do like to send newbs scurrying when they aggress. The bounty you pointed out is because I have a tendency to **** people off.
Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!
Tah'ris I'm Denzel Washington. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
2898
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
So many people don't understand how this works. It's sad, really.
First, let me explain the timers:
- Limited engagement (blue): this timer is created between you and one other pilot, either by shooting a legal target or declaring a duel. It lasts for five minutes after the lass aggressive action between the two pilots. NOTE: if they shoot you, it resets your timer.
Providing reps or other logistical support to a pilot who has an LE will cause you to be flagged as a suspect.
- Recent aggression timer: If you engage in a hostile act against another player, you are prevented from docking in a station or using a jump gate for 60 seconds. Unlike the LE timer, only your actions count here.
- Combat logoff timer: This timer prevents your ship from disappearing if you log off. You get a 5 minute timer from NPC combat, and a 15 minute timer from PVP. This timer is refreshed by aggression from either side, meaning that your ship will not disappear so long as they continue to aggress you.
- Suspect timer (yellow): You set your safety to yellow and stole something from someone. Now you're yellow on the overview, got that nifty little icon, and anyone can shoot you, but you aren't free to shoot first. When they do, it will created a limited engagement timer between you. NOTE: Limited engagement timers can outlast the suspect timers that originated them.
Providing reps or other logistical support to a pilot who is a suspect will cause you to be flagged as a suspect.
- Criminal timer (red): Concord be coming for you. Anyone can shoot you. You turned off your safety, shot something, and you will be shot. NOTE: shooting a criminal still generates an LE, allowing them to return fire until concord shows up.
Providing reps or other logistical support to a criminal pilot would be really, really stupid.
Alright, there are five reasons you can shoot someone in high sec:
1) Their security status is below -5. This means they have committed quite a few criminal acts.
2) They have committed a criminal act and are about to be shot by concord.***** that killmail!
3) You are at war with them.
4) They are a suspect.
5) You have entered into honorably combat via a duel, and gained an LE against them.
Every one of those will generate an LE. You won't see the LE timer when you're at war with your target, but it exists because neutral logi support will go suspect if they intervene. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
2898
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system. *facepalm* Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |

Mymuff Tutuff
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Hi there! It was me you aggressed.
Hello good Sir! Thanks for your fine explanation, and thanks for the... uh... 'flying lesson' too, heh heh.
Quote:I hope you enjoyed the little encounter.
I'm just a scrub, so it doesn't take much to give me a thrill. I guess I was basically a gnat buzzing around you, but it was fun regardless! I'm just glad to be alive!
Nice ship btw.
Quote:I wouldn't have killed you due to your age...
Not sure I believe you here... but thanks.
Quote:...but I do like to send newbs scurrying when they aggress.
And scurry I did!
Quote:Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!
Don't think I got any isk, as I didn't kill you, but fly safe, and don't let the bedbugs, er, newb-bugs bite!
And thanks to all the other answers too - I understand it a little better, and it mostly makes sense. |

Clara Stewart
Stewart Collections
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET |

Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
607
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:Quote:Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus! Don't think I got any isk, as I didn't kill you, but fly safe, and don't let the bedbugs, er, newb-bugs bite!
I sent you a small quantity of isk as a leg up once I saw your forum post. People who help themselves, deserve respect. Posting and seeking out the answer early on in your career shows you'll probably go far in EVE. I'm Denzel Washington. |

Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
580
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.
So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.
Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.
I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?
Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?
Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.
(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!)
No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space.....
Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse. |

Galenwade
Shrubbery Acquisitions
184
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Mymuff Tutuff wrote:I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.
So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.
Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.
I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?
Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?
Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.
(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!) No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space..... Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse.
Maybe Because he wants to play in the sandbox his/her way funny that ,oh and mmorpg stands for Massively multiplayer online role-playing game i dont see the term PVP in there . Maybe they want to pve with other people ? Maybe he is Roleplaying a carebear !!!
Oh and +1 to the OP for shooting , it was a bad idea but fun :) |

Mymuff Tutuff
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET
Hey! I resemble that! And for future reference, I prefer the term 'noob-cakes' if you don't mind.
Quote:I sent you a small quantity of isk as a leg up once I saw your forum post. People who help themselves, deserve respect. Posting and seeking out the answer early on in your career shows you'll probably go far in EVE.
Thank you good Sir. You are my hero.
Quote:No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space.....
Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse.
I didn't mean to imply that I didn't like PvP, or didn't want to try PvP when the time comes (in fact, I do, and I do). I simply meant to say that at this point in time I don't know jack. I'm a nooblet. I'm noob-cakes. I'm noob-escent. |

Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1325
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 02:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:But my question is about the first timer.
That timer exists simply to prevent people from playing stupid station/gate games. It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate target or not, you shoot at another player, you have to wait a minute before you can dock/jump. Likewise if he shoots back he can't dock for a minute either. |

Revman Zim
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
91
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 03:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ignore Johan Civire...
He is one of those idiots that think if you don't play the game their way, you aren't playing the game. A very Fascist way of thinking.
Anyways, good job on taking the initiative and trying something new. The best thing to come out of your experience is... well, Experience. You will be better informed and better prepared for any future engagements.
Most of us are not a55holes and understand that new players are the only thing that add content to the EVE universe. Not patches, not ship-balancing, not nullsec or hisec. NEW PLAYERS.
Welcome to EVE and good luck! |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1111
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 04:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them) |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5487
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 05:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them) Hmmm, for some reason I'm reminded of a story about not throwing stones in a glass house.............
DMC |

Galenwade
Shrubbery Acquisitions
185
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 06:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them) Hmmm, for some reason I'm reminded of a story about not throwing stones in a glass house............. DMC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XzFXzabR68 |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3865
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 07:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Clara Stewart wrote:Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET
A nooblet that tried.
She's already leagues beyond most of the EvE playerbase! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1032
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Best thread in GD for quite some time. This is not a signature. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2990
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Hi there! It was me you aggressed.
You gained the following three timers:
1. Limited Engagement
As soon as you aggress a legal target, you gain a limited engagement timer. This can also be created by accepting a duel request. It essentially just gives you 5 mins to extend the engagement with the target and allows you to shoot freely without goign suspect or criminal yourself.
2. Weapons Timer
Any aggressive action you take will earn you a weapons timer of 1 minute. This timer will prevent you from docking, jumping (except WHs), ejecting, or switching ships. Performing logistics that would generate any timer for you will also earn a weapons timer (I.E. inheriting one for remote repairing someone else)
3. Log-off Timer
Any aggressive action done to you or by you will generate a 15 minute timer that will prevent you from logging off safely in space. If you have to log off in space, you always want to make sure this goes away first or you may find yourself dead. An exception might be logging off in a POS.
I hope you enjoyed the little encounter. I wouldn't have killed you due to your age, but I do like to send newbs scurrying when they aggress. The bounty you pointed out is because I have a tendency to **** people off.
Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!
Tah'ris
All these silly rules. I love the minimalism of nullsec.
No special rules, no silly sec loss, no worrying. Just shoot and the worst that can happen is you can't jump for a bit. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
640
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Heh, I like OP's attitude. Shoot first, ask questions later :)
Nah, but seriously it is way better to lose few cheap ships and learn something that will benefit you for the rest of your Eve life than just be another tumbleweed that never tries new things because it may result in their pixels getting exploded.
OP, whatever you decide to be your thing in Eve don't ever let other people tell you are playing Eve wrong. You may be wrong at fittings, you may use not proper ships to do your things and on those matter you should seek advice and take critique and help with gratitude. But being miner, mission runner, wardec merc or gate camper or nullsec explorer is your choice and if it gives you fun you want just do it no matter what people say. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Zimmy Zeta
RvB - RED Federation
9093
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Clara Stewart wrote:Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET A nooblet that tried. She's already leagues beyond most of the EvE playerbase!
+1
I tell you a secret about Eve, OP: Most of us are terrible at this game. Don't let the crazy amounts of skillpoints or shiny faction ships fool you: If you know about those aggro timers and if you learn everything you can about tracking/transversals, scram ranges and overheat mechanics, you will already be better than 90% of the other players.
edit: flying sober is helpful, too. Please don't feed me. |

Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
31893
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Clara Stewart wrote:Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET A nooblet that tried. She's already leagues beyond most of the EvE playerbase! +1 I tell you a secret about Eve, OP: Most of us are terrible at this game. Don't let the crazy amounts of skillpoints or shiny faction ships fool you: If you know about those aggro timers and if you learn everything you can about tracking/transversals, scram ranges and overheat mechanics, you will already be better than 90% of the other players. edit: flying sober is helpful, too. 
SHHHHHH!!!
  Thanks Zimmy <3 |

bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.
This is just wrong. You did just pvp in the way pvp is ment to be played in this game, and survived to tell the tale after the fight was lost.
Secondly you show more understanding of the game mechanism than most senior players in here.
You Sir or Madam - You have my utmost respect. |

Mymuff Tutuff
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Wow, thanks for all the great feedback and advice. The timers make sense now, I was just under slightly different assumptions about one of them.
Also, it seems this game has plenty of friendly players willing to help out a noob (knock on wood), and even one who sends money for being attacked! I salute you all.
Oh, my saying I'm no PvP'er was my way of simply saying that I'm no professional when it comes to that, being a noob and all. But I certainly want to explore all aspects, including that.
Cheers. |

Skorpynekomimi
460
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
This is how EVE is meant to work. Make a mistake, learn from it, help newbies. |

BobFenner
Black Hole Runners Brainfarts
63
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sounds to me like you WILL be a decent pvp'er given more time and practice. I for one salute you.
Also - LOVING the character name.  My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1615
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 11:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Masterplan - Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch
Make sure to read the part on Flags in Detail. |

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
366
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks OP, this topic made me smile! GD needed a positive story and you delivered. Now that you know about the normal PVP flags, good luck using them in you tactics. It goes without saying that anyone that attacks you, legally or not, gains the same timers. If you do not agress back, you're in a situation where you can jump gates... but your attacker can't. Good luck!  |
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