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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:14:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Guardian Alpha
You have to know how to use the cloak, instead of just putting it on and going into ghost mode.
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
how many slots do you think these ships have?
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Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:26:00 -
[32]
I've not read every post in this topic, but still : Don't tell me regular cloaks are useless!
If you're being hunted and manage to warp away, you're probably gonna be followed to the new location. However, if you're real quick and warp in at some odd range, you can cloak before your followers arrive. They'll see nothing, but they know you're still there. However, since you're cloaked, you can align for something new to warp to. Once aligned, you uncloak and instawarp away from the current location and repeat the process until you finally manage to pull off a permanent escape.
The reason people are disappointed with cloaks is because they expect them to be something they are not. Yes, a cloaked hauler would be a wet dream, but it ain't happening. It lets you disappear, but it doesn't let you sneak past anything unless you're in a Covert Ops ship with a Covert Ops cloak.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:39:00 -
[33]
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item 
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Noriath
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item
If I remember correctly, the Klingons had to uncloak in order to fight. Pretty much same goes here, with the exception that only some special ships can actually warp cloaked.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:01:00 -
[35]
The difference is that Klingons could uncloak, fire on you instantly, and recloak.
The weakness in this system was that they had to shut their shields down in order to cloak, meaning that they could be destroyed while un or recloaking. (In Startrek shields are the onyl form of armor that can withstand the weapons of the time, as most of you probaply know)
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DaReaper
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Noriath
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item
and once cloaked in ST your shields drop. So if they happen to see your uncloak cloak and get a folley off, your dead
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:18:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 12/08/2005 20:19:07
Originally by: Noriath
The difference is that Klingons could uncloak, fire on you instantly, and recloak.
The weakness in this system was that they had to shut their shields down in order to cloak, meaning that they could be destroyed while un or recloaking. (In Startrek shields are the onyl form of armor that can withstand the weapons of the time, as most of you probaply know)
The defiant had a fair bit of armor and could take a number of hits without shielding. Cloaks in star trek are also quite imperfect - TOS:Balance of Terror had the enterprise (no bloody A, B, C or D!) engaging a cloaked ship and dealing damage (basis for cloaking in SFC/SFB), in ST6, the good shakespeare quoting general's bird of prey could be hit by a torpedo (why couldn't they triangulate the firing location and fire a spread of proximity torps as per balance of terror?), in several TNG episodes dealing with romulans, cloaking devices are defeated in numerous ways, in DS9 the dominion and the romulans/our heros played a constant tech game with trying to keep up with cloaking/counter-cloaking tech - DS9 itself could detect a warbird orbitting it, dominion ships could detect the defiant with special sensors and other technobabble.
In short - you don't want star trek cloaking devices because any random genius kid could target and fire upon your unshielded ship and blast it into smitherenes because Birds of Prey and Warbirds don't take damage too well. That said though, cloaking devices did seem to work well enough to park in the middle of San Francisco (mostly) undetected.
EDIT: It would be the Romulans alla Balance of Terror that would fire a torp and recloak - Klingons seem to like to use cloaks more strategically, ie for the element of surprise.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Sturgis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sturgis on 12/08/2005 20:23:46
They cant make cloaking devices too good, or everyone would use them. How to make stealth bombers more useful, without making them overpowered, is a difficult question to answer.
Sturgis
Concord Special Services |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:36:00 -
[39]
Quote:
how many slots do you think these ships have?
It takes one med slot for a multispec. Or go burst: One med slot for a ECM burst. Or just use a sensor dampener, again.. one medium slot.
So... yes. They have enough slots for one medium slot.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:01:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 21:03:01
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 21:01:26
Originally by: Meer
Your wrong, you can't cloak while BEING targeted. So as was said, the minute someone clicks on your ship your cloak is useless.
(removed by Kaell, seems others already corrected you and pointed out that you can cloak while being targeted)
(btw, it's "you're", not "your")
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:01:00 -
[41]
bah fittings is always gona go down to swap this for that, but there is no inherent purpose for them strategic-wise to employ them as the delay timer for locking is the really bad crutch, 12 sec + flight time of missiles gives way too much warning and time to plan for the victim.
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Ngwee
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:23:00 -
[42]
I simply love a cloaked ship when im travelling with GoodiesÖ
Through intelligent use of the map - and by not insta warping on your AP route when baddies are in local ive never (yet) been ganked in over 8 months of 0.0 and Empire commuting.
PS. Being paranoid also helps - they really ARE out to get you!
Hugs a tree for luck.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Quote:
how many slots do you think these ships have?
It takes one med slot for a multispec. Or go burst: One med slot for a ECM burst. Or just use a sensor dampener, again.. one medium slot.
So... yes. They have enough slots for one medium slot.
Multi's and ECM burst take far to much cap and are not guranteed to work. Dampers are useless when the target is close.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
Please view the follow screenshot
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:09:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Noriath on 12/08/2005 22:12:00
Those are NPC, they insta lock!
The entire argument was wether cloaking stops working the instant you get targeted, or the instant someone starts locking you as a target.
I'm pretty sure that you can't cloak while someone is locking you, because I was messing around with a corpmate in my Helios, I had two sensor dampers on him and he said his lock timer was over a minuite, but I couldn't recloak my ship, even with a covert-ops cloak.
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:10:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 12/08/2005 22:13:03
Well, my tactical advice would apply to any other ship that isn't an INDUSTRIAL SHIP. You wouldn't put a asteroid scanner and MAPC on a battleship, don't put a cloaking device on an industrial ship because of it's slow lock time.
You are trying to argue, not only based on low skills and limited experience, but also on the fact that you are using the wrong module on the wrong ship. Time to use WCS and not a decide that is completely nullified for any sort of counter-responce.
My entire tactic is breaking THEIR lock on you AFTER they've already locked you so that you can quickly cloak before they can relock you. Damping at enough range means they won't be able to relock you in the first place. ECM jammers will give you 20 seconds to recloak before they can lock you. Even if it uses ECM, you only need it for a split second to begin with.
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superscarface
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:26:00 -
[47]
Sit above a 0.0 gate with an interceptor cloaked. If someone jumps in with a hauler, follow them through the next gate and destroy. 
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:28:00 -
[48]
Wow, that is an incredible idea -jots down notes- Will certainly be making use of that as needed.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Meer
...Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
You are already targetted by the NPCs.
The timer shows how long it will take you to target them back. Locking a frig from an indy does take quite a lot of time. Locking an indy from a frig is almost instantaneous.
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Octavius Omega
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
Please view the follow screenshot
*snipped for repost*
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
--
"Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one is willing to die." |
Bornra Wraithian
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Meer
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
You're so wrong here it hurts. The yellow box around the target means that they have you locked. The counting down box means that is how long it will take for you to AUTO-LOCK back them. You can prove this to yourself by clicking "ESC" in game and going to one of the menus and disabling "AUTO LOCK BACK" or some such option.
Quote:
Please view the follow screenshot
*snip*
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
You are already targeted, as I stated earlier. Yellow means they have a lock on you, red means they're firing on you. Same applies for players. You get NO indication of BEING locked. Only after you are locked do you get the yellow box (and you begin auto-locking them back if you have the option turned on).
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Jet Calhoun
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:49:00 -
[52]
Interesting topic this one. Lots of things I didn't know before.
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Raindrop
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:05:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Raindrop on 12/08/2005 23:05:16
The moment you hear that sound, you have been locked by someone else. And the timer you see if your ship trying to gain a lock on the perp.
As for cloaks. I luv them.
There's been a few times that i was able to cloak and sit it out.
Raindrop
100% Carebear and loving it.
Collector of junk and leftovers.
NPC and low end minerals trader.
Hauler. |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:07:00 -
[54]
A large key to cloaks is to not just use them to defensivly hide, but plan offensivly or scout.
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Octavius Omega
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
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Ange1
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:22:00 -
[56]
I love cloaks, I never leave home without one.
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CEO of The Establishment |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:34:00 -
[57]
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Octavius Omega
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
Ehm, that's all in your perception cause the 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Basically you're being a arrogant fool that's been told several times in this thread how things work, I suggest listening to them. And for the record cloaking isn't exactly a PvE thing.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:38:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 13/08/2005 00:38:40
Quote:
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
Because the NPCs you are fighting still have to get within range to fire. Since you have a 30-45 second locking period, it may just take them that long to eventually reach you.
Yellow = They have locked you
Red = They are firing at you once within their weapon range (even out of it if you evade them and move beyond their firing range)
White arrows around their ship icon on the overview that blink = You are locking them
White arrows around their ship icon on the overview that don't bling = You have locked them
edit:
Quote:
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
They can know someone is in system, but that person may be docked, in a belt, or a safespot.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Quote:
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
They can know someone is in system, but that person may be docked, in a belt, or a safespot.
This is very true but when you are trying to hunt (either belt pirating, in enemy space or simply trying to sneakily follow a war enemy) the local channel removes any possible chance of the cloaking device being used for such a purpose.
For the most part covert ships get relegated to sitting a long way from a position counting the enemy fleet (somthing an alt in a shuttle could do for free with no investment risk).
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