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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:12:00 -
[1]
Ok I have level 1 cloaking and a level 1 cloaking device.
1) I can not warp while cloaked.
2) I can move but very very very slowly.
3) I can not turn my cloak on once I have been targeted.
4) I can not turn my cloak on if I am IN THE PROCESS of being targeted.
I can't really travel with it. I can't do anything while cloaked. I can't use it to hide and run from an attacker. I can't really target anything within a decent amount of time after uncloaking. I can't stay cloaked if I am near pretty much anything. As far as I can tell the only thing it is useful for is sitting in the middle of nowhere doing nothing. Which is useless.
So I am posting here to hear some examples of situations where a level 1 cloaking device on a non-covert-ops ship would be useful. I'd really love what the people who implemented it inteded it's use to be.
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Maestra Jsun
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:15:00 -
[2]
Lovin' those level 1 skills. ;)
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0.0 Come fly with us... |
Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:25:00 -
[3]
go to safespot , cloak and go afk.
hirr |
Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:28:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Maestra Jsun
Edited by: Maestra Jsun on 10/08/2005 20:19:49
Edited by: Maestra Jsun on 10/08/2005 20:18:12
Lovin' those level 1 skills. ;)
Example: You are sitting at a belt cloaked. Your mates are just a moon away.
One nicely fitted barge, or let us say a hauler, warps to your general position. You approach as close as possible, your mates gang warp to you. Blam-O!
How do you know what belt to sit in? Why, all of them! Get more covert op ships and pilots...cloak camp every belt in the system.
Ok. A few problems with this idea.
1) When your cloaked you can move at the rate of less than 30 or 40m a second. So to go even 10K would take you 10 minutes.
2) No one can see you when you are cloaked. So how would your corp mates know where you are at all?
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Quanteeri on 10/08/2005 20:33:51
You'll need to learn up to the ability to use Covert Ops ships, then the entire skillset becomes incredibly useful in pvp.
If they made it to where everyone with lvl1 cloaking skill could zip around like normal, you would never see anyone in-game, just a bunch of names in local.
Teamspeak and Corpchat are handy for #2.
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Antoinette Civari
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Meer
Ok. A few problems with this idea.
1) When your cloaked you can move at the rate of less than 30 or 40m a second. So to go even 10K would take you 10 minutes.
2) No one can see you when you are cloaked. So how would your corp mates know where you are at all?
The solution for 1 is called covert ops and for 2 "warp to gangmember" 
And yes, standard cloaks are pretty much useless.
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Tinweasel
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:32:00 -
[7]
Nope. You are'nt playing a wow rouge.
Congratulations on not playing an acid trip simulator.
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Maestra Jsun
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:38:00 -
[8]
[QUOTE]Ok. A few problems with this idea.
1) When your cloaked you can move at the rate of less than 30 or 40m a second. So to go even 10K would take you 10 minutes.
2) No one can see you when you are cloaked. So how would your corp mates know where you are at all?
You are right. You have worthless skills.
*Maestra Jsun wanders off with his optimism and capitalistic intent.
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0.0 Come fly with us... |
Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:38:00 -
[9]
Also, I wouldn't say they are totally useless. I know they've saved my butt a few times, running a hauler through low sec.
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Zaldiri
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:40:00 -
[10]
The Idea is to warp out. THEN cloak so the people hunting you dont stand chance of finding you.
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Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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IamBen
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:41:00 -
[11]
They can be good for busting up gate camps. Putting a cloak on a high slot of a geddon is a very good tool. Lets say you know "x-xxx" system is always going to be camped. So you sneak your geddon in and sit there cloaked. THey dont know where u are they look for you but slowly they settle in to their gate ganking routine. They get bored they shoot each other they shoot haulers, amid the confusion, you decloak throw on the sensorboosters and idealy your sensor damps, and then you open fire. The cloaking device is good for well-plannend and patient ambusher.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:54:00 -
[12]
You were suggesting uber ideas for cloaking in a thread in the ideas discussion.
Now you tell us you've only just trained it to level 1.
That's a bit arse about face isn't it?
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Rakasashan Endir
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:57:00 -
[13]
Train up for cov-ops. You can warpwhile cloacked, and you can fly quickly while cloaked. You are the eyes of your corp in a cov-op, not the fist.
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
You were suggesting uber ideas for cloaking in a thread in the ideas discussion.
Now you tell us you've only just trained it to level 1.
That's a bit arse about face isn't it?
I wasn't aware that you had to have certain level requirements to have ideas.
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Nekhad Jormuzzar
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Posted - 2005.08.10 20:58:00 -
[15]
Warp into a new system with hostiles in sight and no chance of facing them or warping out soon enough to avoid being scrambled or subjected to a deadly alpha strike (low agility ship or whatever):
Move your ship to decloak and immediately activate your cloak.
Align for warp while cloaked.
Decloak and warp.
Cloak again in safespot.
Make yourself a cappuccino.
Get some cookies.
Hopefully you'll make it. If there's an inty close enough to you to make you uncloak you are dead, but it does work otherwise.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.08.10 21:13:00 -
[16]
Cloaks got hit by the pre-nerf pretty hard, and have been forgotten ever since. Stealth bombers are a result of that also.
But meh, cloaks are still useful if you know when and how to use them. Just not popularly pimp.
__________________________
Finite Horizon
Your end is our beginning.
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Jongo Fett
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:02:00 -
[17]
Well i use a Executioner with a Improved cloak with overdrive injectors in the low slots and a ab in the med slot i can get to about 140-150 somethin like that while cloaked
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Fitz Chivalry
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:16:00 -
[18]
It is useful to fit one to a hauler so that you can take it into a complex with you - cloak on arrival - wait for everything to get killed - uncloak and scoop up the loot and minerals - repeat and rinse.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:16:00 -
[19]
I have to agree really bout the only semi worthwhile implementation of cloak were covert ops.
Rest are really just a hide in a safespot device. lol
Not exactly the best implementation of cloak I've ever seen.
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Ka Sei
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:28:00 -
[20]
Cloaking your hauler if you are moving through 0.0 is very handy indeed...
I was once jumped through a gate with a bestower full of expensive equipment and there was a tempest and inty waiting on the other side.
Yes, i did have to wait for about an hour cloaked for them to give up and me to escape...but it would have taken a lot longer than that to regain the assets i would have most definitely lost.
Even the crap ones have their uses.
Ka Sei
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:40:00 -
[21]
The most idiotic thing about cloaking is that you can't recloak while the enemies are trying to lock you up. Basicly if they have time to click you a multi-million ISK piece of equipment is instantly rendered useless. How stupid is that? 
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Rodge
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Posted - 2005.08.11 12:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Noriath
The most idiotic thing about cloaking is that you can't recloak while the enemies are trying to lock you up. Basicly if they have time to click you a multi-million ISK piece of equipment is instantly rendered useless. How stupid is that?
You can cloak while you're being targetted.
You can't cloak when you have been targetted.
Makes perfect sense to me, otherwise cloaking ships would be invincible.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rodge
Originally by: Noriath
The most idiotic thing about cloaking is that you can't recloak while the enemies are trying to lock you up. Basicly if they have time to click you a multi-million ISK piece of equipment is instantly rendered useless. How stupid is that?
You can cloak while you're being targetted.
You can't cloak when you have been targetted.
Makes perfect sense to me, otherwise cloaking ships would be invincible.
Your wrong, you can't cloak while BEING targeted. So as was said, the minute someone clicks on your ship your cloak is useless.
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Auldare
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:51:00 -
[24]
I think people get this mixed up, a yellow cursor means you are targeted, red when they shoot you. if you are being targeted you can still cloak, but you have no way of knowing if you are being targeted, the only indication is once lock has been established.
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ponieus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Rodge
Originally by: Noriath
The most idiotic thing about cloaking is that you can't recloak while the enemies are trying to lock you up. Basicly if they have time to click you a multi-million ISK piece of equipment is instantly rendered useless. How stupid is that?
You can cloak while you're being targetted.
You can't cloak when you have been targetted.
Makes perfect sense to me, otherwise cloaking ships would be invincible.
Your wrong, you can't cloak while BEING targeted. So as was said, the minute someone clicks on your ship your cloak is useless.
thinks of the countless ships that cloak while im targeting them.. countless..
wish that was true I owul dhave loads more kills on my board..
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Deja Thoris
You were suggesting uber ideas for cloaking in a thread in the ideas discussion.
Now you tell us you've only just trained it to level 1.
That's a bit arse about face isn't it?
I wasn't aware that you had to have certain level requirements to have ideas.
Knowledge on the topic would be appropriate.
You dont walk into a nuclear power plant and shout "hey guys - wouldn't it be cool if....."
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Rodge
Originally by: Noriath
The most idiotic thing about cloaking is that you can't recloak while the enemies are trying to lock you up. Basicly if they have time to click you a multi-million ISK piece of equipment is instantly rendered useless. How stupid is that?
You can cloak while you're being targetted.
You can't cloak when you have been targetted.
Makes perfect sense to me, otherwise cloaking ships would be invincible.
Your wrong, you can't cloak while BEING targeted. So as was said, the minute someone clicks on your ship your cloak is useless.
Wrong
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:31:00 -
[28]
stealth bombers (missing bonus?) simply need a shorter delay for uncloak --> lock capability
as it is right now i can uncloak watch my target fly off, basically the equivalent of hiding in a bush, jumping out and saying "BOO!" then telling them "Ok, here I am you have 12 secs to run." 
I think the delays and penalties should stay the same for other ships and cov ops (not much of a fighter anyway) but stealth bombers are supposed to be able to sweep in and unload wtfpwnage on unsuspecting victims.
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Decairn
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:52:00 -
[29]
they're good for scouting ahead with gate camps - have a cloaked guy on the other side of the gate and tell the gang when people are about to jump.
--Decairn |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:00:00 -
[30]
You have to know how to use the cloak, instead of just putting it on and going into ghost mode.
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
You have to know how to use the cloak, instead of just putting it on and going into ghost mode.
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
how many slots do you think these ships have?
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:26:00 -
[32]
I've not read every post in this topic, but still : Don't tell me regular cloaks are useless!
If you're being hunted and manage to warp away, you're probably gonna be followed to the new location. However, if you're real quick and warp in at some odd range, you can cloak before your followers arrive. They'll see nothing, but they know you're still there. However, since you're cloaked, you can align for something new to warp to. Once aligned, you uncloak and instawarp away from the current location and repeat the process until you finally manage to pull off a permanent escape.
The reason people are disappointed with cloaks is because they expect them to be something they are not. Yes, a cloaked hauler would be a wet dream, but it ain't happening. It lets you disappear, but it doesn't let you sneak past anything unless you're in a Covert Ops ship with a Covert Ops cloak.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:39:00 -
[33]
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item 
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Noriath
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item
If I remember correctly, the Klingons had to uncloak in order to fight. Pretty much same goes here, with the exception that only some special ships can actually warp cloaked.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:01:00 -
[35]
The difference is that Klingons could uncloak, fire on you instantly, and recloak.
The weakness in this system was that they had to shut their shields down in order to cloak, meaning that they could be destroyed while un or recloaking. (In Startrek shields are the onyl form of armor that can withstand the weapons of the time, as most of you probaply know)
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DaReaper
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Noriath
Well, compared to something like Startrek style cloaking the Eve cloaks are a joke.
All the uses they have depend on some specific situation comming to pass, that you might not ever encounter. You'd think that that cloaked ship has the initiative, but it's the other way around, the cloaker has to wait for an opportunity to use his hellishly expensive highslot fitted item
and once cloaked in ST your shields drop. So if they happen to see your uncloak cloak and get a folley off, your dead
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:18:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 12/08/2005 20:19:07
Originally by: Noriath
The difference is that Klingons could uncloak, fire on you instantly, and recloak.
The weakness in this system was that they had to shut their shields down in order to cloak, meaning that they could be destroyed while un or recloaking. (In Startrek shields are the onyl form of armor that can withstand the weapons of the time, as most of you probaply know)
The defiant had a fair bit of armor and could take a number of hits without shielding. Cloaks in star trek are also quite imperfect - TOS:Balance of Terror had the enterprise (no bloody A, B, C or D!) engaging a cloaked ship and dealing damage (basis for cloaking in SFC/SFB), in ST6, the good shakespeare quoting general's bird of prey could be hit by a torpedo (why couldn't they triangulate the firing location and fire a spread of proximity torps as per balance of terror?), in several TNG episodes dealing with romulans, cloaking devices are defeated in numerous ways, in DS9 the dominion and the romulans/our heros played a constant tech game with trying to keep up with cloaking/counter-cloaking tech - DS9 itself could detect a warbird orbitting it, dominion ships could detect the defiant with special sensors and other technobabble.
In short - you don't want star trek cloaking devices because any random genius kid could target and fire upon your unshielded ship and blast it into smitherenes because Birds of Prey and Warbirds don't take damage too well. That said though, cloaking devices did seem to work well enough to park in the middle of San Francisco (mostly) undetected.
EDIT: It would be the Romulans alla Balance of Terror that would fire a torp and recloak - Klingons seem to like to use cloaks more strategically, ie for the element of surprise.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Sturgis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sturgis on 12/08/2005 20:23:46
They cant make cloaking devices too good, or everyone would use them. How to make stealth bombers more useful, without making them overpowered, is a difficult question to answer.
Sturgis
Concord Special Services |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 20:36:00 -
[39]
Quote:
how many slots do you think these ships have?
It takes one med slot for a multispec. Or go burst: One med slot for a ECM burst. Or just use a sensor dampener, again.. one medium slot.
So... yes. They have enough slots for one medium slot.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:01:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 21:03:01
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 21:01:26
Originally by: Meer
Your wrong, you can't cloak while BEING targeted. So as was said, the minute someone clicks on your ship your cloak is useless.
(removed by Kaell, seems others already corrected you and pointed out that you can cloak while being targeted)
(btw, it's "you're", not "your")
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:01:00 -
[41]
bah fittings is always gona go down to swap this for that, but there is no inherent purpose for them strategic-wise to employ them as the delay timer for locking is the really bad crutch, 12 sec + flight time of missiles gives way too much warning and time to plan for the victim.
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Ngwee
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:23:00 -
[42]
I simply love a cloaked ship when im travelling with GoodiesÖ
Through intelligent use of the map - and by not insta warping on your AP route when baddies are in local ive never (yet) been ganked in over 8 months of 0.0 and Empire commuting.
PS. Being paranoid also helps - they really ARE out to get you!
Hugs a tree for luck.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.12 21:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Quote:
how many slots do you think these ships have?
It takes one med slot for a multispec. Or go burst: One med slot for a ECM burst. Or just use a sensor dampener, again.. one medium slot.
So... yes. They have enough slots for one medium slot.
Multi's and ECM burst take far to much cap and are not guranteed to work. Dampers are useless when the target is close.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
Please view the follow screenshot
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:09:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Noriath on 12/08/2005 22:12:00
Those are NPC, they insta lock!
The entire argument was wether cloaking stops working the instant you get targeted, or the instant someone starts locking you as a target.
I'm pretty sure that you can't cloak while someone is locking you, because I was messing around with a corpmate in my Helios, I had two sensor dampers on him and he said his lock timer was over a minuite, but I couldn't recloak my ship, even with a covert-ops cloak.
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:10:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 12/08/2005 22:13:03
Well, my tactical advice would apply to any other ship that isn't an INDUSTRIAL SHIP. You wouldn't put a asteroid scanner and MAPC on a battleship, don't put a cloaking device on an industrial ship because of it's slow lock time.
You are trying to argue, not only based on low skills and limited experience, but also on the fact that you are using the wrong module on the wrong ship. Time to use WCS and not a decide that is completely nullified for any sort of counter-responce.
My entire tactic is breaking THEIR lock on you AFTER they've already locked you so that you can quickly cloak before they can relock you. Damping at enough range means they won't be able to relock you in the first place. ECM jammers will give you 20 seconds to recloak before they can lock you. Even if it uses ECM, you only need it for a split second to begin with.
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superscarface
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:26:00 -
[47]
Sit above a 0.0 gate with an interceptor cloaked. If someone jumps in with a hauler, follow them through the next gate and destroy. 
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:28:00 -
[48]
Wow, that is an incredible idea -jots down notes- Will certainly be making use of that as needed.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Meer
...Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
You are already targetted by the NPCs.
The timer shows how long it will take you to target them back. Locking a frig from an indy does take quite a lot of time. Locking an indy from a frig is almost instantaneous.
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Octavius Omega
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
If you can't cloak because you are locked, try ECM jamming them to break their lock. Or better yet, sensor dampen them that way you are too far away for them to even lock you.
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
Please view the follow screenshot
*snipped for repost*
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
--
"Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one is willing to die." |
Bornra Wraithian
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Meer
Oh really?
When something targets me the second they start I hear a sound, followed by a flashing target with a timer on it. During this time they do not have a lock on me. When the timer is up their picture appears in the upper right and they have me locked. As long as that timer is going and the picture does not appear, I have not been locked on to.
You're so wrong here it hurts. The yellow box around the target means that they have you locked. The counting down box means that is how long it will take for you to AUTO-LOCK back them. You can prove this to yourself by clicking "ESC" in game and going to one of the menus and disabling "AUTO LOCK BACK" or some such option.
Quote:
Please view the follow screenshot
*snip*
Now as you can see the time is clearly still going for another 49.105 seconds. Their picture is not in the upper right corner. You will also notice the very clear message on the screen.. You cannot cloak your ship as you are BEING targeted by someone.
You are already targeted, as I stated earlier. Yellow means they have a lock on you, red means they're firing on you. Same applies for players. You get NO indication of BEING locked. Only after you are locked do you get the yellow box (and you begin auto-locking them back if you have the option turned on).
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Jet Calhoun
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:49:00 -
[52]
Interesting topic this one. Lots of things I didn't know before.
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Raindrop
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:05:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Raindrop on 12/08/2005 23:05:16
The moment you hear that sound, you have been locked by someone else. And the timer you see if your ship trying to gain a lock on the perp.
As for cloaks. I luv them.
There's been a few times that i was able to cloak and sit it out.
Raindrop
100% Carebear and loving it.
Collector of junk and leftovers.
NPC and low end minerals trader.
Hauler. |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:07:00 -
[54]
A large key to cloaks is to not just use them to defensivly hide, but plan offensivly or scout.
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Octavius Omega
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
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Ange1
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:22:00 -
[56]
I love cloaks, I never leave home without one.
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CEO of The Establishment |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:34:00 -
[57]
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Octavius Omega
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
Ehm, that's all in your perception cause the 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Basically you're being a arrogant fool that's been told several times in this thread how things work, I suggest listening to them. And for the record cloaking isn't exactly a PvE thing.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:38:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 13/08/2005 00:38:40
Quote:
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
Because the NPCs you are fighting still have to get within range to fire. Since you have a 30-45 second locking period, it may just take them that long to eventually reach you.
Yellow = They have locked you
Red = They are firing at you once within their weapon range (even out of it if you evade them and move beyond their firing range)
White arrows around their ship icon on the overview that blink = You are locking them
White arrows around their ship icon on the overview that don't bling = You have locked them
edit:
Quote:
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
They can know someone is in system, but that person may be docked, in a belt, or a safespot.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Quote:
tbh the local channel nullifies most uses of the cloaking device. Cloaked or not the target will know you are there.
They can know someone is in system, but that person may be docked, in a belt, or a safespot.
This is very true but when you are trying to hunt (either belt pirating, in enemy space or simply trying to sneakily follow a war enemy) the local channel removes any possible chance of the cloaking device being used for such a purpose.
For the most part covert ships get relegated to sitting a long way from a position counting the enemy fleet (somthing an alt in a shuttle could do for free with no investment risk).
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:57:00 -
[61]
Good point. I don't agree with the shuttle idea though, if a rookie shuttle came near my fleet.. boom. If a covert ops hid near my fleet, chances are I would be none the wiser
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Octavius Omega
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:18:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Octavius Omega
Just to clarify some things for you:
1)The yellow boxes around the NPC ships show that they have ALREADY locked on to you, but have not started firing. The Square turns red when they have ACTUALLY started firing. They DO have an active lock. Therefore, preventing you from cloaking.
2) The locktime you are seeing is your remaining time until YOU have locked the NPC frigate.
Then how come they never start firing until the counter goes off?
The ships that already have you locked are Blood Followers. They have to get in REALLY close to attack you. If I remember correctly, that is about 1k. Judging by your screenshot, they are 10k out of that range. They are not the fastest NPCs and you are not moving directly at them, so it is quite possible that you can lock them before they start shooting you. If you run into Prophets and Archons, they will be able to hit you with missiles at the range the raiders were in your screenshot.
--
"Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one is willing to die." |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:37:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 13/08/2005 01:39:42
I shouldn't even point this out but...
I'll use a stealth bomber group as an example, although this example can easily apply to any cloaked combat group. Stealth bombers simply have an advantage in speed while cloaked to manuever, and a reduced penalty to the delay after uncloaking to begin targetting.
Say you have a group of 4 stealth bombers (or more) in a system with 4 gates. Each person goes to a different gate and cloaks. While cloaked they either manuever to long distance quickly (near to the maximum of their extremely good targeting range), or they position themselves about 3K on the side of the gate least likely to have traffic passing close by.
A hauler or other ship manageable by this group jumps into system. One of the pilots can get a visual while it is aligning for warp... and reports its destination to the other pilots in system. They immediatley uncloak and jump to the destination gate (either at optimal or with an insta directly on top of the gate according to their preference). The bomber that is already at the destination gate uncloaks immediately and waits for the target to arrive. The spotting ship waits until the target vessel has warped, then uncloaks and follows immediately.
By the time the stealth bombers come out of warp, the targeting delay is over and they can immdiately lock and fire... or if the target vessel has an insta (and the fleet opted to jump on top of the gate), they can follow the vessel through the gate and pop him on the other side.
You just have to know when to keep the cloak up to gather intel, and strategically when to drop it to warp to the combat.
As I said, any group of vessels can do this (the cloaks simply make each individual ship a highly effective scout), stealth bombers just have nice advantages to movement and targeting time.
That's not a moon... that's my POS
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:53:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 13/08/2005 01:54:54
If you mean in empire then sentry guns would splat the bombers in seconds.
If you mean in 0.0 (which I take it you do) the problem is that the hauler pilot see 4 people in local and expects the worst. So in that case he aligns and warps to a safe spot and either waits there until you leave local or logs out and doesn't come back until later.
EDIT: I should point out that this isn't how it WILL go but what (from my experience) is probably the most likely thing to happen.
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.08.13 03:13:00 -
[65]
I have a cloak on my I5, use it frequently when avoiding blockades or when hostiles are near a low sec gate. Very useful item.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.13 03:36:00 -
[66]
At lvl 3 a prototype cloak is very useful for navigating 0.0 off instajumps ( jump in system safety ) and for working range with a sniper setup when jumping into belts PvE.
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.13 10:31:00 -
[67]
if u know how to use a cloaker correclty on a hauler _ industrial ship they are very useful for avoiding gate camps esp in low sec -
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Dallenn
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Posted - 2005.08.14 04:26:00 -
[68]
The conclusion from this discussion seems to be that Eve pilots are more resourceful than Klingon officers in utilizing imperfect technology.
If a module is useful for someone, somewhere, then there is a reason for it existing in the game.
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Roleplaying in Eve |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.08.14 09:01:00 -
[69]
Having a scan resolution penalty in addition to the re-calibration time is a little harsh, but I suppose they had to be careful not to turn it into a no-brainer module.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
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