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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
   |
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Industry in reality will allways be done there where it is safest ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
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Posted - 2013.03.08 15:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:flakeys wrote:Industry in reality will allways be done there where it is safest .... I tried saying that so many times but no. For some reason they are strongly convinced that manufacturing high tech stuff in the middle of a Somalian battlefield is the most natural thing ever and HAS to be vastly more $$$ rewarding than doing it in China. You haven't provided any convincing arguments that industrial endeavours would never be undertaken in null other than saying "SOMALIA! BATTLEFIELD!!!111" nonsense. The reason it doesn't happen at the moment is because how easy and cheap it is in highsec is ridiculous. It's not because omg somalia battlefield, it's because of how pitiful the capabilities are - as has been discussed before, there's more slots in sobaseki than there are in entire nullsec REGIONS - and how there's at the moment no downside to using highsec instead. If the capabilities were buffed, and if there were some downside (say for example a 5% tax on slots in highsec) then I very easily see a lot more people doing their work in null.
Owk in simple:
Null is less safe then empire?
Null has less inhabitants then empire?
Null has less miners then empire?
Answer to all 3 is yes , enlighten me why null should have more industry focus then empire?Industry concentrates on volumes bought/safetyness of building/close to it's resources.
I get it you want null to be far more better because you think of your own pockets like 99% of eve unfortunatly but i see no reason why null should have equal or more industry options then eve.I DO agree it needs more though , but still less then empire.
Better minerals/ratting etc is what null should have that i agree on.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
High sec isk should be deplorable, there is zero reason to lose a single ship in high sec and ISK should reflect this..
Eve-killl brewlar:
March 1 kill :1 in empire
February 4 kills : 2 in empire
January 7 kills : 7 in empire
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:flakeys wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:flakeys wrote:Industry in reality will allways be done there where it is safest .... I tried saying that so many times but no. For some reason they are strongly convinced that manufacturing high tech stuff in the middle of a Somalian battlefield is the most natural thing ever and HAS to be vastly more $$$ rewarding than doing it in China. You haven't provided any convincing arguments that industrial endeavours would never be undertaken in null other than saying "SOMALIA! BATTLEFIELD!!!111" nonsense. The reason it doesn't happen at the moment is because how easy and cheap it is in highsec is ridiculous. It's not because omg somalia battlefield, it's because of how pitiful the capabilities are - as has been discussed before, there's more slots in sobaseki than there are in entire nullsec REGIONS - and how there's at the moment no downside to using highsec instead. If the capabilities were buffed, and if there were some downside (say for example a 5% tax on slots in highsec) then I very easily see a lot more people doing their work in null. Owk in simple: 7 Null is less safe then empire? Null has less inhabitants then empire? Null has less miners then empire? Answer to all 3 is yes , enlighten me why null should have more industry focus then empire?Industry concentrates on volumes bought/safetyness of building/close to it's resources. I get it you want null to be far more better because you think of your own pockets like 99% of eve unfortunatly but i see no reason why null should have equal or more industry options then eve.I DO agree it needs more though , but still less then empire. Better minerals/ratting etc is what null should have that i agree on. The idea behind more risk is more reward.
And i just said that should be the case .Beter minerals , better ratting , plexes , building your titans and offcourse that o so precious technetium.Null reward should be bigger and that should be obvious.
So , that cleared up and keeping in mind what i said above that industry works as explained , why should null have bigger industry then empire?Or is it just simply the ' We wanna have it all on our side of the sandbox' mentality?Because as usuall that impression is pounding hard on the door at the moment.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's your answer ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:flakeys wrote:That's your answer ? Its the only one that makes sense. Why else would people want to stop industrialist from gaining more reward for greater risks?
Because in the case of industry it makes absolutely NO sense that nullsec would have more industry focus then empire for the simple reasons i stated above.It's not because you take more risk that everything should be better/higher.
Hey i got an idea let's make a raven build in nullsec 30% stronger/better then one build in empire because hey risk risk risk .....
I'm known for being anti-goon , blueballblob and all that but i try to be rational in arguements like this.Keeping both null/high in mind but it's hard seeig as both sides mostly only look out for their own interests.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:Malcanis wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:baltec1 wrote:
The idea behind more risk is more reward.
Sometimes the risk is too high to be balanced by quantity rewards and only quality rewards will do. Nullsec industry is already better in that you can do things with it that you cannot do in highsec. People do those things because they value them enough for the risk to be worthwhile. Adding more things that you can only do with nullsec industry is something that can work, and something that I expect to see in the future. Trying to make nullsec "better highsec than highsec" just isn't in the cards, and I doubt the people lobbying for nullsec industry to be better at basic production than highsec industry would really be happy with the results if they got what they are asking for. Please tell me about doing invention in 0.0. Where do I get the datacores from? You get them from your research agents, of course ;) Oh, wait, sov nullsec is all about *player generated content* so you don't have any agents of any kind there. You know, almost like someone set up the game to require trade between different regions of space or something silly like that. Where are these overprivileged highsec industrialists getting their morphite and moon minerals from for their T2 production? The nullsec players are selling it to them? Well, there's an easy answer to nerfing highsec industry right there, isn't it?
I'm starting to like your 'work' :)
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
884
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 17:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:If certain talking mouths presented this as a POS owner vs NPC station freeloaders argument and not as a null sec vs hi sec, they'd have gained total support by many others who indeed poured in money and effort and risk (at least of wardec) to field their own structures.
.
As someone who uses multiple pos's i still would not 'argue' for a change.Currently it is quite easy either you take the cheap station way or you take the more expensive but no waiting line way.It's a free choice open to everyone .
What i would like is that pos's would just die off or can be killed without a wardec needed if they are not fueled for longer then a month to make the above choice easier to make and finalise.
Again it's about seeing it in it's total aspect and not just the way 'you yourself' use this/play.
Something that we see WAY too little on the forums.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
884
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:flakeys wrote:
And i just said that should be the case .Beter minerals , better ratting , plexes , building your titans and offcourse that o so precious technetium.Null reward should be bigger and that should be obvious.
So , that cleared up and keeping in mind what i said above that industry works as explained , why should null have bigger industry then empire?Or is it just simply the ' We wanna have it all on our side of the sandbox' mentality?Because as usuall that impression is pounding hard on the door at the moment.
Null's reward is bigger, substantially bigger than the rest of Eve. The rest of New Eden can't help it if you're giving all your moongoo profit to your alliance leaving your individual players with a pat on the back telling them "at'ta boy!"and sht in both hands. If null was handed everything, the rest of New Eden laid waste, those alliances who you've handed the chains to the dog collars around your corps' necks would still want more from you and you'd still be left with figuring out how to improve null by taking more from an empty Hisec.
Mr kidd ... if you actually read the thread i was replying to someone in favour of the change and i stated why i was against it.I live in high-sec atm.
Stop doing your name honour kid ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
887
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 13:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So has this discussion gotten past the point where all the people from hi-sec seem to believe that everyone in Null is a member of Goonswarm and that every member has a tech moons worth of profit available to them alone?
Funny how this discussion never took place with a 40+ page threadnaught while there where more and bigger wars going on in a few years back?And now that half of null is carebearland all of a sudden we got a huge incomeproblem ....
uhuh
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
887
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 14:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:flakeys wrote:Frying Doom wrote:So has this discussion gotten past the point where all the people from hi-sec seem to believe that everyone in Null is a member of Goonswarm and that every member has a tech moons worth of profit available to them alone? Funny how this discussion never took place with a 40+ page threadnaught while there where more and bigger wars going on in a few years back?And now that half of null is carebearland all of a sudden we got a huge incomeproblem .... uhuh You might want to check that, I seem to remember them going back at least a few years but in f&I not Gd
I don't need to check that as i said ''when there where bigger wars on'' tell me after the north collapsed a few years back has there been any ''big war'' ? All you got left is huge blobs killing off small blobs and whining that that smaller blob doesn't undock o/TEST looking at you lot .
So again , enlighten me why this is a verry high concern now that big wars are non existant and while technetium income is skyhigh for a large part of null.And again yes it is a large part if you look at the amount of players in the OTEC alliances.
How the hell did alliances like BOB -owwww i dared say it and in comes T2 whining- even stay alive for longer then 1 month beats me , i mean they should have been sucked dry as an alliance and as members the day they stepped into null right?I mean they had constant wars and didn't suck techtitty as much as CFC does yet they're idnustrial backbone was strong and delivered perfectly during wartimes yeaaaaaaaaaars back and we didn't even have JF's / jumpbridges then .
Ahh i know they must have been cheating devs , that's it it all makes sense now.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
889
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 19:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:flakeys wrote:Frying Doom wrote:flakeys wrote:Frying Doom wrote:So has this discussion gotten past the point where all the people from hi-sec seem to believe that everyone in Null is a member of Goonswarm and that every member has a tech moons worth of profit available to them alone? Funny how this discussion never took place with a 40+ page threadnaught while there where more and bigger wars going on in a few years back?And now that half of null is carebearland all of a sudden we got a huge incomeproblem .... uhuh You might want to check that, I seem to remember them going back at least a few years but in f&I not Gd I don't need to check that as i said ''when there where bigger wars on'' tell me after the north collapsed a few years back has there been any ''big war'' ? All you got left is huge blobs killing off small blobs and whining that that smaller blob doesn't undock o/TEST looking at you lot . So again , enlighten me why this is a verry high concern now that big wars are non existant and while technetium income is skyhigh for a large part of null.And again yes it is a large part if you look at the amount of players in the OTEC alliances. How the hell did alliances like BOB -owwww i dared say it and in comes T2 whining- even stay alive for longer then 1 month beats me , i mean they should have been sucked dry as an alliance and as members the day they stepped into null right?I mean they had constant wars and didn't suck techtitty as much as CFC does yet they're idnustrial backbone was strong and delivered perfectly during wartimes yeaaaaaaaaaars back and we didn't even have JF's / jumpbridges then . Ahh i know they must have been cheating devs , that's it it all makes sense now. Well let's see, from my perspective I couldn't give a stuff about null wars, so I am talking about player owned being better than NPC. Enlighten me wasn't bib the alliance getting illegal help from devas, being the reason we have a csm now? But to be honest I don't care about big alliances in anyway other than the effect bootum up income and a usage based sov will have. I care about the industrialists be they part of an alliance or solo, now these people myself included deserve and for that matter pay for more than just getting stuffed into hi sec and being told to rot.
What i am trying to point out is that ... it allways has been this way.Yet now the complaints are drasticly increasing in a time where income in null is higher then before.OW yes and i am talking about other alliances then goons , the small boohoo we haz no techmoons.I had a half year in syndicate recently as i like to enjoy high/low and null at times .. i can tell you i made a SHITLOAD more then in the ''yearly years'' doing plexing and that's with allmost exclusively neuts passing every few minutes .More then enough to cover any ''jumpfreightercost'' to get my **** up.And i was so happy to get my jumpfreighter jumping in , it made me think of the times i was in ASCN and had to fly my freighter 20 jumps through low-sec with no or hardly any escort.
In short there has been stufff added specifically for this , jumpfreighters and jumpbridges.So yes sure let's get industry in null up ... and immediatly get rid of jumpbridges and jumpfreighters.Ow no yes that's right , we want it all in our own pocket.Some of you guys should really try living solo in npc null again it might open your eyes to the luxury and ease you have there.
You lot remind me of a rich person complaining about the airco beyond a tad too loud when they are eating in their fancy restaurant while homeless jack outside is having the night of the week because he got a 1 dollar given to him from someone passing by.
You forgot how the game was or have never experienced it, your nothing different from a miner complaining that if he fits a tank his mined ore will go down per hour wich makes me want to shove a bantam under his ass and say ''hey dude this is how we did it and if you are lucky one day you can mine in the apoc ... ''.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
895
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 10:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Andski wrote:
logistics is hilariously easy too considering that there are tons of people doing freighter runs for peanuts
please tell me more about the egregious cost of living in hisec
Nullsec : logistics is hilariously easy too considering that there are jumpfreighters , jumpbridges , warp to 0 , blueblocs ....
Please tell me more about the egregious logistics in null compared to what it once was.Now tell me how much high traffic changed over the same number of years.
Spoiled brats is what i call that , how i'd love to see null returned to it's state in 2004 just to show you how 'easy' they made it for you.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
895
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 10:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:flakeys wrote:Spoiled brats is what i call that , how i'd love to see null returned to it's state in 2004 just to show you how 'easy' they made it for you. Protip: This *might* have more impact if you weren't saying it to someone from an alliance who conquered large swaths of space in the south without jump bridges, jump freighters and a handful of carriers at best.
Let's forget who tagged along shall we , you did it allllll on your own.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
897
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 16:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Andski wrote:
please tell me more about the egregious cost of living in hisec
Getting to hear about stuff like the Battle of Asakai ... and going "I wish I was there".
Black rise ... low-sec ... how hard can it be ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
Paper Tiger Coalition
898
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 17:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Why isn't this thread dead yet?
Because these null vs high discussions will only stop once the servers are killed in X years ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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