Null sec tears refresh my soul.

Keep them coming

And there we have it. Irrefutable proof, hard numbers, and facts...because baltec1 says so. Somewhere between 0 and infinity, a new numerical system based on "sucks balls" has been created.

Null sec whiners produce more scripted drama than Amish Mafia.

You mean using it to characterize the same complaining about high sec coming from the usual suspects in null sec isnt an accurate use of the meme?

I think it fits the situation perfectly.

Please, moar tears!

And here we go. When a thread pops up that null sec may find uncomfortable, they direct a guy into it to drag into a slagfest so CCP will lock the thread.

Everyone, ignore the trolls, which gives CCP less reason to kill the thead.

There is so much irony and hypocrisy its stunning.

Im not sure some of you realize how foolish you look.

^^^^^Null sec tears above^^^^^

We are all still waiting for you to produce the "easy" to gather data that supports your statements. I mean, unless all you're here to do is troll then and shed your delicious tears all over the forums.

wait is sariah kion part of the secret posting squad

There is no moon goo in high sec.

The numbers are in. There must be something wrong. Please balance this CCP. According to these folks if one section has something more than another that is unbalanced and must be corrected.

Thanks.

Im ok with not having moon mining in high sec because I understand that its part of the balance that CCP has in place in Eve.

Null Sec players want it all. NAO. ALL YOUR STUFFS ARE BELONG TO US!!

You all cant see the forest for the trees. Its a good thing that the developers understand this balance better than the mouth breathers crying on the forums everyday about miners and high sec.

What null sec industry needs is the ability to anchor a POS near any moon. It would also be great if they could do research, invention, and somehow extract goodies from those nearby moons. Maybe run reactions? Or if they could somehow produce the most expensive ships in the game...that would be a bonus.

Null sec also needs a game mechanic introduced where you could claim sovereignty over systems, even entire constellations. But then you'd need to be able to form an alliance with other players and corporations to protect it all. I suppose eventually they might run out of industry slots, so they would need a way to go to war with other alliances so they could invade their systems in order to expand, control more space, and have more industry.

Ya. That would all be very cool. If only...

Please explain why Null needs more industry? Most people won't build in null anyway due to logistical issues and a FOTM market. 80% of the items supplied in 0.0 are bought in highsec and transported.

I guess the big question is, with the Bee's overwhelming hatred of anything carebearish, why would you want more industry in 0.0?

I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players.

I'm not an expert on anything, and I don't claim to be. I'm sure there is some merit to the null sec complaints, and it's no secret that POS's need to be improved. But making null more like high sec or nerfing high sec isn't the answer. Again, I would argue that null is designed to be the final frontier and completely player-driven. It's the players who should address the problem, not demand more NPC interaction.

Actively absorb high sec indy corps if you need more slots in your alliance. Set up trade agreements, or even trade hubs.

Because:
1) they are in null because they want to shoot stuff, not make a trade hub.
2) Even if they wanted to make a trade hub, others would just show up to kill everyone else coming there to trade.

You're absolutely right. My socks are wet from standing in this river of null bear tears, and I'm a little grumpy.

And you manage to avoid the issues altogether?

Issue, not enough slots in 0.0.
Now some numbers would be nice. What are the current usage statistics of all currently existing slots, broken down by high/low/null/ and their current usage level.

I logged on an alt in Delve just for laughs.

Over 1000 manufacturing slots in Delve.......less than 100 in use.....

Yep, I can see that a shortage of manufacturing slots is a serious issue in Delve at least....:)

Fair enough.

Questions:
If null industry/PvE/mechanics were buffed above high-sec levels, would:
a) null get enough carebears into (or back into) null to meet null's industry needs? If not, then an anemic null industry would still be a problem.

b) would the *average* carebear industrialist/miner/mission runner want to live in null-sec? (Are you the exception or the rule?) Meaning, would enough carebears make the migration to null to and de-emphasize high-sec's importance?

Also, if high-sec carebears are already making plenty of isk, is the promise of even more isk enough to entice them to null? If high-sec can fill all of a carebear's needs, then offering additional carrots won't get people to move to null, thus implying a high-sec nerf would be warranted.


I'm really starting to agree with the OP that we need more hard data, especially historical data about player populations, migrations, and how alts are used.

Actually levels of development has everything to do with it but that's going down a divergent path so I'll discontinue that point in this thread.

What actual resources are needed in Null which aren't available? I'm asking about resources, not goods or ability to make goods. An increase in manufacturing capabilities does seem to be an issue which needs to be addressed for NS (conceding that point).

I'm not arguing one side or the other rather trying to figure out exactly what NS wants other than the normal, "Null-sec should be better than hi-sec argument."

Baltec, if the Bees spent a bit of Moon-goo isk on stations and upgrades, they's have all the slots they needed....c/d?

When the It moved into Delve, the Mavericks built five stations in about 6 months. With limited help from IT. But your telling me that you can't afford to build and upgrade stations, with the endless moon-goo still flowing?

Nullbear tears. So amusing.

And to CCP, these two devs must have already done the math on why high sec must be destroyed. They would have had to use hard data to decide what must be done. So why does CCP not just release the data, and all these fights just melt away?

This is amusing because I think there was one time I had to wait like an hour, at most, for a manufacturing slot to open up. Saying that high-sec people "compete" for slots is only true if you live within five jumps of Jita. Or less, I don't know. But I do know that 11 jumps from Jita there are slots aplenty.

E: Quoted wrong statement

So CCP, are any of your devs willing to discuss why CCP has not released detailed economic data in many months.
I am talking about the kind of data that can be used to shape intelligent discussions.

In the absence of that data, we are seeing vast propaganda campaigns that are trying to portray conjecture as fact.

I ask again, why does CCP not release the data?

Great, so you have calculated the value of a couple of grav sites that have controllable spawn rates in null sec.
And what does that tell you?

If the market for minerals is completely player driven, then it seems to me that it means that null sec players can make far more ratting than mining, which they do, and then import minerals from high sec. Game working as designed.

I can pull all sorts of isolated numbers out about high sec, and as I have said many many times, they are useless unless inside the context of a complete picture of the Eve economy.

And if you noticed the title of the thread, it was "CCP, how about some numbers", not "null sec, please cherry pick numbers that any player can build with a spreadsheet"

That doesn't make any sense. You basically just said "a guy not knowing anything about the subject being discussed doesn't make his opinion of the subject being discussed less valid" LOL.

I'm sorry, but yes it does. You don't see me telling wormhole people nothing, because I know very little about wormholes. But I live in null and high sec, so I talk about that.

--
In my experience with these null sec vs high sec discussion, it usually comes from the pro-High Sec types whose opinions are based on supposition and superstition.

I'm serious about that, if you look at these discussions you will see verifiable facts, figures and links from people supporting a pro-null sec position. All you ever get from high sec people are "no, you just want me to play your way". And yet the high sec people think they are making some kind of valid point.

Stepping away from the game, the forums and simply speaking as a grown man, that's just NUTS and I find it scary that people, real flesh and blood human being actually think like this, like the actual insanity we see coming from high sec posters. Can self interest be so powerful as to destroy all reason?

I know what would happen. This thread would evaporate, and people would actually have to deal with some in-game reality, as opposed to campaigning to attack or defend high sec industry.

Maybe not refine rates, but income ratting sure affects the usage of the slots.

You guys want 50 mfg slots at a Player owned station, just like an NPC station? No problem.
How about 100? How about 1000?

They will still go unused, because your players make far far more ISK per hour ratting, with a lot less clicking.
What you guys want is null sec industrialists to make as much per hour as some guy in a Vindi running forsaken hubs with fighter support from some Thannie parked at a POS.

And the only way that happens is you get a monopoly on T2 production, a brand new null sec game mechanic with 5-10 times the best high sec production rate, and brand new null sec only rocks with 10 times the yield of high sec rocks.

Station slots is not your problem. It never was. It all about the ISK/ hour.

Fact: Less that 10% of the slots in Delve are in use.

Fact: There is enough isk coming from Moon-goo to build 100's of stations, and upgrade them all.

Fact: People don't go to 0.0 because they simply don't want the conflict.

Fact: Large 0.0 entities still charge 10%-15% tax, even though they have more isk than they can possible spend in the lifetime of the game. (Why is this? Why are players such suckers that they are dumb enough to make other players rich?)

I had such a nice reply written, but one version sounded snotty, the other made me sound like a bragger, the third one made me sound as though I knew it all when the reality is, I most certainly don't, so I'll just say.


+1


o/
Celly

Yes it will


More people will know how broken it is