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Yazzen	Posted - 2005.08.18 20:40:00 - [91] with everyone accuseing people of macromining... whats to say that they just gone afk to get a cup of coffee before the cargo became full?
MadJackMcJones	Posted - 2005.08.18 20:52:00 - [92] Originally by: Yazzen with everyone accuseing people of macromining... whats to say that they just gone afk to get a cup of coffee before the cargo became full? Say, that's dangerous thinking there Jimmy. You best keep your mind on your work.
The Shadowlord	Posted - 2005.08.18 21:11:00 - [93] I laugh at people who petition "macroers" because they see a group of 10 ships all with similiar names. Lol... Do you REALLY think a true macro runner is gonna bring that much attention to themselves by having all 10 toons using the same name? PLUS...to run a good macro dont you need a seperate computer for each account? That being said, if you see 10 people names "JoJo1" through "JoJo10"...do you REALLY think they have 10 PC's at home runnging macors to mine veld? And to note,the idea that macros are killing the market is silly. Mineral prices have been rather steady for the last 2 years wth a spike or dip here and there but generally steady none the less. Honestly, the whole concept of petitioning macros or people you THINK MIGHT be selling on Ebay is pure selfishness. People are just ****ed that some people have it easier I think...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.08.18 21:28:00 - [94] Originally by: The Shadowlord I laugh at people who petition "macroers" because they see a group of 10 ships all with similiar names. Lol... Do you REALLY think a true macro runner is gonna bring that much attention to themselves by having all 10 toons using the same name? PLUS...to run a good macro dont you need a seperate computer for each account? That being said, if you see 10 people names "JoJo1" through "JoJo10"...do you REALLY think they have 10 PC's at home runnging macors to mine veld? And to note,the idea that macros are killing the market is silly. Mineral prices have been rather steady for the last 2 years wth a spike or dip here and there but generally steady none the less. Honestly, the whole concept of petitioning macros or people you THINK MIGHT be selling on Ebay is pure selfishness. People are just ****ed that some people have it easier I think... You can run 10 clients. I've done 4 or 5 on one mid-end machine. -- Proud member of the [23]. Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day.
Koda	Posted - 2005.08.18 21:49:00 - [95] Originally by: The Shadowlord I laugh at people who petition "macroers" because they see a group of 10 ships all with similiar names. Lol... Do you REALLY think a true macro runner is gonna bring that much attention to themselves by having all 10 toons using the same name? PLUS...to run a good macro dont you need a seperate computer for each account? That being said, if you see 10 people names "JoJo1" through "JoJo10"...do you REALLY think they have 10 PC's at home runnging macors to mine veld? And to note,the idea that macros are killing the market is silly. Mineral prices have been rather steady for the last 2 years wth a spike or dip here and there but generally steady none the less. Honestly, the whole concept of petitioning macros or people you THINK MIGHT be selling on Ebay is pure selfishness. People are just ****ed that some people have it easier I think... What about objecting to sharing the game with greedy automatons who blatantly violate game rules? -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2005.08.18 21:54:00 - [96] Originally by: Serpensis Why is it so hard for CCP to ban these guys? They completely annihilated every `roid in Yulai during the night. 30 accounts x $14.95 a month = $248.50 Money talks Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
The Shadowlord	Posted - 2005.08.18 22:08:00 - [97] 10 clients yes...but each client would need a seperate PC to run a macro of this scale. And I am much less concerned about CCP spending its time to find ways to ban macroers then I am fixing the bugs we have day to day.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.19 00:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Discorporation Well, if you keep buming them, you mess up their script and GM's won't be able to observe them macro-ing.. coughs Go Disco :P "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.19 00:08:00 - [99] Originally by: lythos miralbar ps.. anychance ccp can create a forum where people can report sightings of blatantly obvious macro miners?? they can then be targeted by ore theives? not nessecary to give out names in reports, just something like "I was watching a bunch of of macro miners in yulai last night. there were 3 badgers hauling and a load of miners. they were all in a noob corp with almost identical names" Chat channel "tookurstuff". And phillip duncan, there are legal issues related to that kind of thing. It's not something companies generally want to step into. Compared to many games, the market for Eve goods is pretty small too (thanks to the NATURE of the game). "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Crass Spektakel	Posted - 2005.08.19 00:13:00 - [100] Considering the recent skyrocking of the low-mineral-prices I would say without macro-miners the eve-economy would collapse very fast. I don't macro-mine, I do only very rarely mine (I don't even have acceptable miningskills). But I have to buy minerals for 500mio-1000mio per month and the market is sometimes empty like mad. Minerals are getting rare lately. And there is an easy explanation: In the early time of Eve the only thing you could do was... mining. So everyone mined to get some bucks. Which means a lot of stuff hit the market. Prices were always reasonable. Nowadays... people go ratting, mine ice, run POS, run agents.... and maybe sometimes mine. I think while earlier 50% of all playtime was mining nowadays its more like 5% of all time. And the macro-miners being the majority of the few remaining miners. Well, one could argue that we now have better equipment. I don't buy that though. An old Apo+8xMiner2+10xHarvesters mined around 900m¦/min. A high-end Barque mines twice that amount. But this doesn't compensate for the lost numbers of miners. Crass Spektakel life is short and in most cases it ends with death but my tombstone will carry the hiscore
Aralin Desentris	Posted - 2005.08.19 00:55:00 - [101] Just a point to those who are suggesting that players should be forced into " Player corps " after a certain length of time , or skill point lvl . or removed from NPC corps so they can be wardec . I'm in an NPC corp . i have been for months , and tbh i'm fine there . I spend my time mining , manufacturing and selling excess minerals on the market . I don't have very good gunnery / fighting skills , because of my chosen profession . Now if i was forced to join a " Player Corp " ,or to be non-corped and allowed to be wardec on , it would then be forcing me into PvP at some point , and also forcing me to change how i play my char . I have no wish to PvP , i have fun doing my manufacturing , running missions and rat hunting . One of the things i like about EVE is you can do pretty much anything you want , if you want pvp , you go to low sec or join a player corp and have wars . If you don't want PvP , you stay in empire and in NPC corps . So , in essence what your asking for is the whole " non pvp " aspect of the game to be removed ( dependant on char age or skill point lvl ) . Now to me , that isn't what EVE is about .
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.19 01:10:00 - [102] That's called a "level playing field". Welcome to it. IMO? Stop skill gain at 2 mil in a NPC corp. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Ricdic	Posted - 2005.08.19 02:02:00 - [103] Originally by: DonTrump Iv seen a GM in a belt watching a group before and they are still mining today. The problem is its not totally afk macros. Its like 1 person working 20 accts at once, they will respond. So its almost impossable to win this I do understand. I dont see how this is a problem. If a person can afford 20 accounts, he has every right to use them all to their full potential. Of course, his replies would be few and far between, as he would be running between each computer, to set up the next. Plus i bet they are only mining ice. To mine regular ore would be a pain in the ass with 20 accounts. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Elisse DuBane	Posted - 2005.08.19 02:35:00 - [104] Originally by: Maya Rkell That's called a "level playing field". Welcome to it. IMO? Stop skill gain at 2 mil in a NPC corp. Well Rats to your way of thinking. I am, and have been, in an NPC Corp for a year. I dont spy, I don't interfere in any PvP...mostly. I help New Players..is that a crime? Doing that for most of my EvE time and adding to our numbers in what must be admitted is, as yet, a niche game Who on earth are you to say I 'have' to do what you are proposing? Leave us alone and get your rocks off doing your PvP Macho thing if you want to...its not like its hard to kill an Indie..and to my mind its the cost of production to lose one..acceptable. I do so hate that y'all think I have to play the game your way
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.19 03:07:00 - [105] No, but I kill AF's in an interceptor. Which IS hard. It's a matter of balancing, and the exploit potentials of people staying in newb corps is MASSIVE. Nuts to people dodging wardecs by being in newbcorps. PS, 54,000 players is NOT really niche. It's more than a lot of MMO's you might have heard of...Shadowbane, Asheron's Call, Planetside... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.08.19 03:18:00 - [106] Originally by: Maya Rkell It's a matter of balancing, and the exploit potentials of people staying in newb corps is MASSIVE. Greater than the potential of exploiting 1001 other things in the game? eg: alt chars. Compared with the other crap in game, being able to join a new corp to avoid war is minor tbh. Bigger things need to be addressed long before this.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.19 03:27:00 - [107] Says the Imperium Pilot. Not surprised. I view this as a MAJOR issue, which breaks the risk/reward nature of Eve. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.08.19 03:37:00 - [108] Originally by: Maya Rkell Says the Imperium Pilot. Not surprised. Yes, because this is a discussion about Imperium, not about macro miners... right? Originally by: Maya Rkell I view this as a MAJOR issue, which breaks the risk/reward nature of Eve. Yes, it breaks the risk/reward factor far far more than the use of alt characters, doesnt it? Id give you a cluepon, but youre not worth being banned over.
Celes Tial	Posted - 2005.08.19 09:53:00 - [109] Edited by: Celes Tial on 19/08/2005 09:54:16 Originally by: The Shadowlord Do you REALLY think a true macro runner is gonna bring that much attention to themselves by having all 10 toons using the same name? PLUS...to run a good macro dont you need a seperate computer for each account? A lot of them do it, dont ask me why. And yes, I talked to 'true' macroers who fully admitted it in another game. Basically, they do it when they know they can get away with it. They can just claim they are 10 friends who like to appear similar, etc. Originally by: The Shadowlord That being said, if you see 10 people names "JoJo1" through "JoJo10"...do you REALLY think they have 10 PC's at home runnging macors to mine veld? Asian macro farming companies do. They have a whole bunch of computers, multiple accounts, and often dozens of employees who take turns. Lets assume a small company just earns 1000$ a month through selling ISK for real cash... thats a lot of money in China. Very profitable for them. Did you know that some Korean internet cafes dont make players pay in real money for the time they spend playing? They actually charge ingame money and items earned during the time the internet cafe PC was in use. Originally by: The Shadowlord Honestly, the whole concept of petitioning macros or people you THINK MIGHT be selling on Ebay is pure selfishness. People are just ****ed that some people have it easier I think... Easier? How about unfair. I cant compete with companies running miners on 15 computers to strip entire belts. I should be able to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be played. I should not need to look for niches the macroers have overlooked / not discovered.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.08.19 10:26:00 - [110] Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 19/08/2005 10:27:10 What CCP need to do is improve mining to a point where you can't just automate it with a simple macro. If mining wasn't as ridiculously easy and simple as it is, macros wouldn't be a problem in the first place. It doesn't have anything to do with newbiecorps or whatever. The entire mining system is completely static. That's why we have macro miners. Mai's Idealog
DonTrump	Posted - 2005.08.19 11:05:00 - [111] Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 19/08/2005 10:27:10 What CCP need to do is improve mining to a point where you can't just automate it with a simple macro. If mining wasn't as ridiculously easy and simple as it is, macros wouldn't be a problem in the first place. It doesn't have anything to do with newbiecorps or whatever. The entire mining system is completely static. That's why we have macro miners. I like this idea very much. It gives me hope that CCP has thought of this too and is about to announce they are working on a new system (wishful thinking )
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.08.19 11:18:00 - [112] i think the current system is fine a few points Mostly they would use trial accounts - the amount of minerals being mined is very small and therefore not a real ingame market hit Its still wrong i agree - but i think the current player reporting system - where CCP should according to them remove all macro accounts is the way to go. If u see what u think is a marco miner what we need is a channel (this could cover afk miners using haulers - which i think is ok as the player is still around and when the roid goes pop - its the same as going to the loo while youre ship goes 20 jumps through empire yuore semi afk) Its when they are using automated Software to run said mining that its wrong - what we need is a mining pirate channel - perhaps we could have some bored palyers in empire - reports could be sent where they see at least afk miners go and pop their roid. - u can sit there for 2 hours till they come back - and then they are like wtf where did my roid go oh no 2 hours wasted hehe Other option is more strip miners in empire systems (real players) strip out all that trit etc and boost the supply side of the market lol. As long as CCP tackle all these nasty illegal activities according to the EULA then i think thats a good thing. the other thing is banning all trial accoutns to asia (china at least) would mean that players would have to pay to play which might lessen the chances of other activities happening
Amaron Ghant	Posted - 2005.08.19 11:30:00 - [113] Originally by: Driven Two ways to bring macromining to a screeching halt: 1) Put rats in .9's and 1.0's including ice belts 2) After two months of game time all players must be in a player corp from then on. Being a miner of sorts....got to say I agree with both those ideas. Sick to death of macro miners. Kill em...kill em all NOW
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.08.19 11:32:00 - [114] well boot em outo f the game - that said a group of bored mining pros in empire roaming around nd creating their own channel or anti marco mining corp lol could travel around and pop all the roids where these and afk miners are situated. Also mining those systems where there are more than 100 players in the system on average - need to get those carebears out into other areas and if all the roids vanish then they will be foreced to move for mining :)
DonTrump	Posted - 2005.08.19 11:33:00 - [115] Originally by: sonofollo i think the current system is fine a few points Mostly they would use trial accounts - the amount of minerals being mined is very small and therefore not a real ingame market hit Its still wrong i agree - but i think the current player reporting system - where CCP should according to them remove all macro accounts is the way to go. If u see what u think is a marco miner what we need is a channel (this could cover afk miners using haulers - which i think is ok as the player is still around and when the roid goes pop - its the same as going to the loo while youre ship goes 20 jumps through empire yuore semi afk) Its when they are using automated Software to run said mining that its wrong - what we need is a mining pirate channel - perhaps we could have some bored palyers in empire - reports could be sent where they see at least afk miners go and pop their roid. - u can sit there for 2 hours till they come back - and then they are like wtf where did my roid go oh no 2 hours wasted hehe Other option is more strip miners in empire systems (real players) strip out all that trit etc and boost the supply side of the market lol. As long as CCP tackle all these nasty illegal activities according to the EULA then i think thats a good thing. the other thing is banning all trial accoutns to asia (china at least) would mean that players would have to pay to play which might lessen the chances of other activities happening The largest group that I know of 75+accts does not just use trial accts. Accts are way over the trial period. They use barges/battleships (megas/doms/apocs/geddons)/and a crapload of iteron 5's and other haulers. They keep starting more accts that mine in frig then cruiser groups and graduate up the chain of ships untill fully ready for a barge/BS/indy. This one group alone is paying CCP atleast 1000$ a month to run their biz not play Eve. All kind of bad thoughts start when you really think about that.
ladylex	Posted - 2005.08.19 13:54:00 - [116] I own three accounts, all able to mine with covetors and use Iteron V's. I sit in belts for 12 hours at a time bustin' rocks (yes I know I'm sick but I can't help it). I deploy two covetors and a V (because of the ore thiefs) and do the can shuffle. I have a little timer that goes "ding" every three minutes, or 7.5 minutes for ice. I click/drag, then think about how close I am to carpel tunnel, target and activate as necessary, and go back to my program, movie, book etc. If the hauler is full, I insta. There are five other people that have about the same setup, and we often partner. People are constantly harrassing me by bumping me, typing obscenities in local, convo requesting, screaming "OMFG THERE'S A MOCROER IN X-XX..." etc. I never react, or talk, or ***** or do anything that seperates me from a macro. Why? Because it's none of their business what I'm doing and it's rude, self-centered and arrogant to stick their nose in my business. If they ask me "lady, how's your day?", "what a nice pair of covetors", "can you help me with something?" or any of a billion questions that prove that you a bit civilized I'm pleased to respond IF I HAVE THE TIME. It takes a lot to run three mining accounts...local is usually minimized and blinking. GM's have convoed me out of the blue, never to ask if I'm macroing, but probably was on their mind. So they are watching. For those of you trying to justify or at least "grey area" macros, there is only one adult answer - It is wrong because the people in charge say it is. It's not because it will ruin/help the market, or theres plenty/none left for me, or the chinese are coming...everyone agrees not to do it when clicking the box. If we are too lazy/busy/excited to get the game rolling to read the EULA then it's still wrong. But don't assume your method of identifying a macro camp makes you the judge/jury/executioner...it just ain't so.
Confession Time	Posted - 2005.08.19 18:16:00 - [117] Quote: People are constantly harrassing me by bumping me, typing obscenities in local, convo requesting, screaming "OMFG THERE'S A MOCROER IN X-XX..." etc. I never react, or talk, or *** or do anything that seperates me from a macro. Why? Because it's none of their business what I'm doing and it's rude, self-centered and arrogant to stick their nose in my business. There is your problem, just say hi or SOMETHING to prove to others your not a macro arse. Too good to talk to others in the game? DONT play an MMO then. Quote: I laugh at people who petition "macroers" because they see a group of 10 ships all with similiar names. Lol... If you even have a clue as how some macros work, there are MANY reasons why the names are close. Its the 1 thing macro hunters look for first. Quote: Do you REALLY think a true macro runner is gonna bring that much attention to themselves by having all 10 toons using the same name? PLUS...to run a good macro dont you need a seperate computer for each account? "Most" of the macro users ALSO have or are usuing the same macro in other games. Hence, they set the game up as much as possible to thier macro. Why? so they dont need to spend alot of time reconfigging the macro itself. Remember the heavy duty macro ebayers are not just doing it in this game. BTW i have atm 35 high end computers (duals, Quads ), "IF" i wanted too, i could run EASY 10 accounts on each WITH macro's running. Thats 350 toons macro mining. What kind of damage do you think that would do? Not only to the economy, but new players as well? Quote:** And to note,the idea that macros are killing the market is silly. Mineral prices have been rather steady for the last 2 years wth a spike or dip here and there but generally steady none the less. Are you for real? Ever play Evermacro, err evercamp, hold on ill get it right, ahhhh everquest? The economy was totally trashed by macros AND campers. That is also all you will find in EQ2, all the ebayers. To SOE Money is GOD, hence they dont care. CCP claims they ban macro / ebayers as they find proof. But sometimes i still think the $$$ gets in the way. I play the game to have fun, Sure im into EVE heavy. I have 4 accounts, each one has a miner on it too. But Im at my pc running all 4. Sick maybe, no life prolly, but I personaly find it fun just to keep up. lol Now for the interesting part. I cancelled subs in other games for this same reason of Macro / Ebay stuff. Would CCP rather lose the occasional 2-4 accounts? Or Ban the 10 - 30 + macro accounts and keep the loyal players? Just seen another thread, so went to look. EVE Radio site has a very nice Google add with not with 2 advertisements for Buying/selling ISK. WTF is that? Are they also true Morons to let that stuff on thier site? cough wonders how they give away all those goodies Cough /emote Sits and Waits to edited ....... ...Bless me Father, for i have sinned.... BIG _______ TIME!!! Saving your soul, One confession at a time, will blackmail you later
Thor Darkwing	Posted - 2005.08.19 18:33:00 - [118] This is how i handle macrominers in himatar region 1. get a hauler and steal their ore 2. Get your bumpgeddon and screw them over. 3. repeat after some hours
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.19 18:43:00 - [119] Originally by: Nakor Kren the problem with making people required to be in a non-npc corp is that the macro miners will just make a macromining corp ^_^ or 10 of them, it's cheap in isk to make a corp, and they're in it for the money irl anyway, so.... Thinking just maaaaaybe they might, possibly get wardecc'd there Nakor.
Natasha Kerensky	Posted - 2005.08.19 19:20:00 - [120] Originally by: Crass Spektakel Considering the recent skyrocking of the low-mineral-prices I would say without macro-miners the eve-economy would collapse very fast. I don't macro-mine, I do only very rarely mine (I don't even have acceptable miningskills). But I have to buy minerals for 500mio-1000mio per month and the market is sometimes empty like mad. Minerals are getting rare lately. And there is an easy explanation: In the early time of Eve the only thing you could do was... mining. So everyone mined to get some bucks. Which means a lot of stuff hit the market. Prices were always reasonable. Nowadays... people go ratting, mine ice, run POS, run agents.... and maybe sometimes mine. I think while earlier 50% of all playtime was mining nowadays its more like 5% of all time. And the macro-miners being the majority of the few remaining miners. I think the inflation has more to do with the isk being bought for real money. So in a matter of speaking, macro miners actually are creating the problem, not from flooding the market with a surplus of minerals, but from the players who buy the isk off of ebay; RL money lessens the value of in-game money.

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